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China Developing own Standards
J ROC writes "Encouraged by their government Chinese electronics firms are shunning technological protocols invented abroad and developing their own, according to this article. The Chinese have developed several standards including EVD to replace DVD standards, and TD-SCDMA to replace the CDMA cell phone standard found elsewhere. The reasons seem to be partly based on "techno-nationalism", and Chinese firms growing tired of paying foreign patent fees. While this may force foreign firms to lower their patent fees, some experts warn that China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world."
Creating national standards is an eventual dead-end. Eventually, when the Next Big Thing overtakes the world, these national standards will only serve as an impediment to technical progress in China. Remember Minitel vs the global internet in France? If it's this kind of backwards progress they're after, they might as well invent their own alternative to the metric system.
China has a market that is far far FAR too large to care what the rest of the world thinks or does. As the middle class grows, companies from the rest of the world are going to come crawling to China in order to participate in the market.
They won't isolate themselves, they'll re-write the books on standardization.
20% of the world's population.
:)
I reckon that's a pretty good base on which to design standards.
Jackie Chan was asked once in an interview if he regretted not breaking into the US market. He replied that with 2 billion people in asia, why should he care about the States?
Norman Cook's Ode to Sl
...some experts warn that China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world. As opposed to their lack of isolation now?
some experts warn that China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world
Why not? It works for the United States...
On a serious note, China is big enough to throw its own weight around if it wants to, though.
I don't know about that isolation warning. China is pretty big and has access to cheap labor. Microsoft isolated itself right into a market monopoly by ignoring standards.
Compatible with the 'rest of the world'? China IS the rest of the world. America occupies about 5% of the world population. Instead of worrying about China technologically cutting itself off, how about we worry about being compatible with their standards? I'm more worried that one day there will be 3 billion EVD players that won't read DVDs.
Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose.
The current Chinese population is around 1.3 billion. It does not include everyone on Earth.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
There isn't a dillema in China. China was given open access to the WTO by President Clinton who called them a "strategic ally".
China is having a field day, and we should be very concerned that their form of government can reap the benefits of a free society without adhering to its rules.
Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose.
Without getting into politics, China is only walking the well trodden path of other emerging super powers in their time. America pulled pretty much exactly the same tricks with everything from science (hell what kind of global standard is CDMA anyway?) to sport.
China walks all over global standards because China is big enough to get away with it. Same as America, same as Russia, same as Britain (in its time) probably too.
I don't think they'd be isolating themseleves (anymore so than they are now, willingly). There's no reason that they couldn't develop gateways to interface with foriegn technology. It's not like compatable technologies won't be available, they'll still be made over there to be shipped to first world countries, and I'm sure they'd be happy to sell to the chinese people as well. If this brings lower cost technology to the people, I'm all for it. If it's intended as a means of information isolation, then of course they can make that happen, but I don't think that's the case here. It seems like they genuinely want to get out of patent costs, which is why they have a national Linux distribution. Truly Open standards aren't patent encumbered, and maybe they'll open up some of their tech to us, and we end up being the ones who adopt it, as an open and perhaps better standard.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
With an estimated population of 1.3 to 1.4 BILLION by 2010, I can really see China's techno nationalism hurting itself.
:-)
If (for example) the US with a population of ONLY 300 Million, and Japan (130 million) and a few other countries can dominate the worlds technology, I can easily imagine that in 50 years time we could be all following Chinas leads with regards to technology (assuming of course they haven't outsourced it all to India by then
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
Experts warn that China risks isolating itself
China's history is all about isolation (erm, the great wall and stuff), not to mention what communism did to them. Their modern history is rife with isolationism. To quote Spock, "Only Nixon could go to China." This says nothing of the centuries before that. So isolated were they that they didn't even realize they were the ones who invented the clock!
China, isolating itself?... It took experts to realize this?...
"All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
Are you delusional? China is not and never has been Communist. And for your information no other country in modern history has either. Now before you start spouting crap again, each country claimed to be moving TOWARDS communism. That is they weren't (and still aren't) communist but given time they would become communist. This approach has since be shown not to work and China is now moving towards capitalism.
Communism is defined as a classless (and stateless) society. If you look at China, it has classes. The people at the top are in one class and the people on the bottom in another. Just because they call themselves communist doesn't mean they are. And if you think that they are I'm the most intelligent person on the planet (and I have this bridge to sell you).
On the matter at hand, I think that it is important for China to develop their own technologies, however, I don't like the idea of them ignoring international standards. If it is just a matter of patents, why they should just ignore them. Oh wait, they're capitalist, they can't do that...
...Chinese firms growing tired of paying foreign patent fees.
Are they even _paying_ patent fees now?
... as a sovereign state. Not so good for those who dream of a one world integrated system. I don't concieve of any reason interchanges couldn't be develop to allow the chinese standards to coexist with the rest of the world, sure it will be bothersome to some, but maybe this will give China an opportunity to innovate in new and interesting ways. What some may regard as fractioning I would say could potentially spurr innovation and competition. But you know, why look for a bright side to this when it gives us ample opportunity to pull a chicken little or to belittle somebody else...
:-)
Woot for the chinese! Dirty commies!
Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
I don't think Communism has much to do with it. America develops it's own standards even when others are readily available. GSM vs TDMA comes to mind (though I am not well versed on the history there). More likely this is an economy that is planning for the day when it is the largest economy in the world, and if the rest of the world wants to trade/interoperate with it, well, they'll just have to pay the patent/license fees to China instead.
Personally, if the Chinese standards don't include restrictive concepts such as CSS and region-encoding, I'd rather have my movies on EVD than DVD.
That said, if EVD has some other kind of restrictions (such as detecting anti-government remarks, and then emailling the details of the viewer to the Ministry of Truth, so that they might be 're-educated' - then perhaps CSS is the lesser of two evils.
This is all much commotion over nothing. People use different standards all the time, and it's not always a big problem.
You say they're developing their own kind of DVDs, yet (thanks to region codes) DVDs aren't internationally compatiable anyway.
About cell phones... are you kidding me? Look at how many networks we already have in the world... GSM, TDMA, CDMA, and yet we still manage to call each other.
You don't even have to be a country to make your own standards. Look at Sony and their spectacularly incompatible products.
Someone mentioned that this is like creating their own versions of the metric system. Guess what? America has just that, and is it an isolationist country?
At most, all this will probably mean that we'll just be required to convert things from one standard to another, just like we've always done. Yes, it can be annoying, but it won't dramatically isolate China. What's the big deal?
It should be no suprise that the Chinese want to develop their own standards
No it shouldn't. But not for the motives you give.
The USA has for decades played hardball in international trade. They have been good at getting their own way. The Chinese realise that if they want to become a world ecomonic superpower, they've got to start playing as hard as the USA traditionally has. Europe is also now getting it's act together - the EU is a powerful force in international trade negociations, much more that the individual countries of Europe can be.
You say "Communism itself can't tolerate any kinds of rivals whatsoever". I don't think this has got anything to do with Communism, it's about global trade and China's desire to become a global economic superpower.
China is a real threat to the potential for world democracy. And don't forget it. They may trade with the west, but their political structure and long term planning make them political and economic adversaries long term. Compared to them, Iraq is a "[...]side show of a side show" (See Lawrence of Arabia for the quote).
--Maynard
I wouldn't really expect an open standard from the government that brought us Tiananmen Square.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
Secondly, China remains a totalitarian country which has only adopted capitalistic market as a stepping stone on its way back to pure communism. That remains the ultimate goal and doctrine of the CCP. Isolation from foreign "control" allows them to better insulate their own population, selectively, from expected evil foreign manipulation and "interference in China's internal affairs". Becoming a "standards-setter" might also give the CCP more leverage over Taiwan's extremely powerful business lobby in preparation of the "re-unification" of that island with communist China.
On a related note, all this foreign investment feeding the growth of totalitarian China is somewhat akin to helping Hitler build up the Nazi German industry, after Hitler had already begun invading its neighbours. China's nationalist propaganda aside, they are holding Tibet under very harsh foreign occupation, and the turkic Uighur people of East Turkestan (which the Chinese call Xinjiang, or "New Frontier") are not too happy under Chinese control and massive influx of ethnic Chinese on their lands either. But yet China is a great business buddy while the fully contained and de facto harmless Iraq had to be invaded... Maybe I just don't get the true meaning of this "liberation of people" stuff.
Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?
While this may force foreign firms to lower their patent fees, some experts warn that China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world.
Seems that the US and Canada have done okay despite their standardization on Imperial measurement units as opposed to metric. The Chinese populations is now something like 1.2 billion people if I recall correctly, which is 4 times larger than the US. Once they get going economically they'll be dictating a lot of standards, I'm afraid.
If you post it, they will read.
You underestimate the interest in escaping outrageous patents, patent fees and monopolies. China can set its own standards because it has enough consumers to force foreign companies to listen. Pundits saying China will isolate itself (e.g. suffer) are blowing industry smoke. What, are American corporations pulling themselves from Uncle Sam's tit long enough to cry that capitalism is unfair? Boo hoo.
You have it partially right, but your drawing too many comparisons between them being "communist" as the reason this is being done.
"...Chinese firms growing tired of paying foreign patent fees."
This is the part that holds the most significance as the reason it is being done. The western world dominates when it comes to patents. What patents mean in a legal sense is control. The Chinese business interests obviously want control over their own businesses. They have two choices, pay the patent fees and allow U.S. interests control over certain aspects of their technology and business, or ignore patents and/or develop your own so that the control and knowledge is held within your own businesses and country.
Here is the major problem. We are seperating. The U.S., business interests, investors, and even the citizens are unwilling to give up/change the patent system. It is about control and losing it is not what most want. So China is pushing away. This will create tensions between the western world and China, which is not a good thing. Tensions will exist between programmers, politicians, business persons, and many others. Why will they exist? Because now there is a whole new level of understanding and translation. Between China and the west, standards would not match and so translation is required. Understanding would include Chinese attempting to understand our system and the west understanding the Chinese system. Patents are deeply integrated in the technological and business world. All the way from the few existing lone inventors that have a patent of a few to the large conglomerates and even the military.
The ignorance of the Chinese towards patents is not a bad thing. We are led to believe that patents are the answer to progress (and I will argue that with anyone if they wish), but after the introduction of a patent system within our entire legal, social, and economical structure the opposite becomes true and progress is then defined within the limits of the remaining freedoms of thought within our corporate economic system. By ignoring patents and allowing a more natural kind of competition that prevents the tieing up of progress by the legal system which corporations in the U.S. and western countries use as control mechanisms. If is plain to see that the Chinese benefit from such a move and could easily overtake the western world in progress. They have the resources and the people.
Maybe I should consider learning Chinese.
Btw, if anyone isn't sure what I meant by this entire post, please ask. I have a way with words that causes confusion for many.
Question everything.
And thier elected President would be shocked to hear otherwise.
.. "you can choose whoever you like as long as its Hu Jintao"
Yes but it says he was elected unopposed! What kind of an "election" is that?!
Communism is defined as a classless (and stateless) society.
That is in the world of might-have-been. Yes, the early definition of Communism was as you describe - and a very beautiful, though unatainable, idea it was. But it has not manat that since about 1920. Since then, it has meant a highly centralised goverment controlled by a party, calling itself the Communist Party, which claims the right to control everything because it does so on behalf of The People - without giving The People a chance to say whethr or not they want it to.
To inisist on the pristine meaning of the word Communism it to take the attitude of Humpty Dumpty - words mean what I want them to mean. Unfortunately, the world has changed the meaning of the word Communism, as many other words.
Would you insist that we cannot say "Politician X is dumb" because actually he talks far too much? Dumb has taken the meaning of stupid, as well as mute. Similarly for thousands of words in the English language.
Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
different standards track than rest-of-world. And survived
thus far.
Eventually, the best standard will win. GSM is being adopted
here for a reason.
And what's wrong with letting the market decide who will win.
If U.S. and other firms priced themselves out of the market
because ofexcessive license fees... well, that's why it's a
market and the market will address those notions in its own way
as it always done.
No need for panic, or "fears of isolation". Stop the trolls.
Poof.
China does indeed have its own "Red Flag" linux distibution. Its a pretty standard distro apart from the fact that the support for chinese ideograms is standardised and most of the desktop apps use ideograms by default.
The descision to standardise on a homegrown Linux platform was as much to do with flakey and inconsistent chinese langauge support on other platforms as it was about saving money.
Old COBOL programmers never die. They just code in C.
I certainly don't disagree that western democracies are slowly moving toward plutocratic corporate feudalism. It's happening. However, it's a pendulum swing, just like in the Gilded age of the 1880s - 1900. So there's precedent for it happening before, and precedent for change in the other direction back. I'm much less worried about Democracy in the US and Europe collapsing than the potential for economic and military threats from those with orthogonal ideologies of totalitarian political control like China. They may trade with us, but they are not our friend - they have a well thought out long term plan for the benefit of China (as any nation ought), and they will maximize their economic and military advantage to the best of their ability. To forget or ignore this is an extreme folly. --M
There isn't a dillema in China. China was given open access to the WTO by President Clinton who called them a "strategic ally".
Would you rather a nuclear enemy??
China's economy will in all likely-hood eclipse the US economy in the next few decades. Perhaps the US should start making itself a "strategic ally" to the Chinese instead of this 'they are evil but friends' current approach?
China is having a field day, and we should be very concerned that their form of government can reap the benefits of a free society without adhering to its rules.
ADHERING TO 'ITS' RULES.. sounds like you want to set them, do you own the means of production by any chance?? Again, your passive agressive comments do nothing to promote understanding between the China and other nations. I can only presume you are writing from the USA because of the nature and dogma present in your statements.
You talk as if prosperity is only allowed for your system of government, for your interests and value system. Many communists consider communism to be about escaping that kind of dogma.
Lowers the cost of technology in China.
Reduces revenue to American and Japanese technology firms.
Allows for a new technical-design boom for Chinese workers, increasing knowledge and affluence.
Creates a cheaper alternative for worldwide consumers, including Americans. (Can you say WAL-MART?)
Increases the brain drain already in full swing from the major outsourcing of programmers and other tech positions to India.
A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may never get over. -Benjamin Franklin
China has the larges population, but not the largest economy. The economic potential you refer to is only potential, and the current reality is that China is not poised to overtake the US and the EU for decades, even if current rates of growth continue. Maybe in some future economy where China does indeed dominate it will have the clout to make the world adopt its standards. The vast majority of technical progress takes place outside of China, and this nationalistic hubris with regards to standards threatens China's ability to take advantage of others' advances. Closed systems retard growth.
You should ask the textile workers and other manufacturing workers about that. While you are at it, also ask IT workers you've seen their jobs go .
Except I wasn't referring to American workers. The fact that American workers are losing out just demonstrates how far your administration are prepared to go to make American corporations competative. Like I said, "The USA has for decades played hardball in international trade." American workers are just casualities of that policy.
Hmmm... sounds like these "experts" are a bit suspect. If the Chinese develop their own standards, but make them freely available to everyone, then this just simply indicates that China is new competition. After all, wouldn't this be all about "free market"? ;P The idea of a global set of standards for technology is nice, but has been so far unattainable outside of the computer industry. With video we have NTSC, SECAM and PAL. Why should the computer industry be any different? I think the warnings given by these "experts" is nothing more than either chicken little thinking, or American neocons who are afraid of real competition.
Un-news
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
In any case, it's highly unlikely that the Chinese authorities would drive tanks over protesting students, afterall, that's pretty much counter to the socalist ideology.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
The article has one mistake I can see so far.
3G does not specify the radio technology to be used. As such who cares what radio they are using. 3G is about flexibiity as you can use whatever radio tech u want (including 802.11 if it pleases u) and you can use either circuit switched or packet switched core networks. So in that aspect unless they are going to come up with the whole of their own 3rd generation specs they'll not be preventing use of 3G just making their own radio.
"To inisist on the pristine meaning of the word Communism it to take the attitude of Humpty Dumpty - words mean what I want them to mean. Unfortunately, the world has changed the meaning of the word Communism, as many other words."
Nope. It's just that most people have not been educated correctly.
Just because someone calls themselves something is not a reason for anyone else to call them that.
I'm still recommending "The Tyranny of Words" by Stuart Chase. Words define how you think. When you start confusing the definitions of words, you lose the ability to understand the issues. Which is what many politicians want.
China is not "Communist Country".
China is a "Totalitarian Socialist State".
umm, the reason that the US does not use standards that rest of the world uses is not because we invent a new standard here to spite, it is because we invent many of them first and Europe come along with a new better way to do it but since the US has had its standard (which is a corporate standard, not a government imposed one) for a few years and invested in it, we continue to use it.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
No thinking person denies there are problems with the US system of government, it's current government, and many of the social, political and economic systems we have here.
However, we all know it. We talk about it constantly. We publish newspapers, magazines, and TV shows that display content critical of the government. We protest, rally, demonstrate. We lampoon our past and present leaders, demand (and often get!) changes in leadership and policy.
By and large, we don't kill our own people for it. We don't run slave labor camps, populated by people whose opinion on political matters differs from that of the government.
The Chinese do. China is a police state, run by dictators. It's not a democracy. There is no freedom of expression. Don't confuse the limited expression of economic capitalism in China with individual liberty.
Is the US system perfect? Hell no! Would you trade your life here for a life in China? I wouldn't.
China certainly has reaped some of the rewards of the global economy. Their low standard of living means labor is cheap. Multinational companies are employing many Chinese people to manufacture their products. However these companies get to keep all the profits, leaving the Chinese with nothing more than wages earned.
If China continues to enforce domestic standards at the expense of international ones then it will stunt the growth of some of their industries. There will be no demand for their products outside of China. This will limit the market for Chinese products.
Anyone who thinks that the domestic market is sufficient should take a look at the average income of the Chinese. The US, with only a quarter of the population, has much more purchasing power.
This is also an issue of control. If all Chinese electronics follow Chinese standards. Then they won't be able to utilize foreign media. Additionally the Chinese will only authorize those parties they deem usefull to use their standards. They can now control entirely the flow of information in their country, lock, stock, and barrel. Imagine if they develop a highly advanced operating system that becomes the defacto standard in the country, that also happens to have huge gaping back doors to allow the government to monitor everything. Or a DVD standard that prohibits foreign DVD's from functioning. I think this is their ultimate goal.
Sir, there is a dragon outside with an armful of armor. He's inquiring if we offer free refills.
yeah, and for good reason. the Pentagon was in the midst of its judicial process to indite and convict these people. by releasing the information to the command structure is in direct violation of the soldiers' due process, and now, the convictions of some of these people are at risk of not holding because of this crap.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3