Slashdot Mirror
PDA Buyer's Guide Reviews The Sharp Zaurus SL-6000
Tong Zhang writes "PDA Buyer's Guide has published an in-depth review of the Sharp Zaurus SL-6000. If you like livin' large, this super-sized Linux PDA may be just the ticket. Sharp targets the enterprise rather than consumers with this Zaurus model, which looks like an SL-5600 on steriods. It has an amazing VGA display, a 400 MHz processor, thumb keyboard, WiFi and more. Read the full review." This adds just a bit more information to the previously mentioned review at BargainPDA.
Yes but, does it run Windows CE?
Rather than the empty link (href="") in the story, this is the correct link to the previous story on the Zaurus SL-6000.
Also, the BargainPDA article, directly, is here.
I'll trade my 2.0ghz pentium4-m Laptop for one of these with a extra USB keyboard and flashcard in a heartbeat (or external USB drive if possible).
The thing that makes it worth it?
Linux OS + decent screen + 10-12 hour battery life.
WTF am I suppose to do with a laptop that can only run for 1.75 hours before needing to be plugged in again? It's not nearly as usefull as I thought it would be.
"the terminal application (it comes on the CD), allows you to issue Linux commands, edit config files and all that great stuff." Yeah, Ok, that's great, but won't it take like a year and a half to enter a command with one of those stupid hand writing recognition things?
Nice to see it runs Linux. But then, Linux dominates in so many area's and runs so efficiently that its invisible to most users, despite what other desktop OS producers would have you believe. Although probably out of reach this year, it will be tomorrows tech soon enough, and that 480 x 640 LCD will be AWESOME for pretty much any app you can imagine.
Do you need a website upgrade?
Sure, it looks cool, but I've given up on PDAs a long time ago. A regular wallet-sized calendar works better for me. OTOH, I rarely have more than 3-4 meetings per week, but still.
The darn thing weighs in at 10.5 ounces and with the plastic screen cover closed, it measures 6.2" x 3.2" x .9". Come on now -- almost an inch thick? You're not carrying this thing in your pocket; not even if it runs Linux! No thanks ... I'll stick to my Compaq 8350.
A really amazing feature of this PDA is that it can act as USB host (since the Linux kernel includes excellent support for USB). This means, presumably, that we can plug pretty much any Linux-supported USB device into it. A USB hard disk, CD-ROM drive, networking adapter, printer? That sounds nice!
Another completely different question - as mentioned in the article, the PDA uses a combination of Flash and SDRAM to mirror the secondary/primary disk/memory model that you see with most normal computers running Linux. This is different to Windows CE, which uses the same memory for both running programs and storing them and their data, although I believe this memory is dynamically divided between memory and storage and programs are still copied across the divide when they're actually run; different again is PalmOS, which as far as I'm aware simply runs a program "in place" since programs are both stored and run in the Flash RAM on a device.
Is there anything that can make Linux work like this? I can imagine a hack involving boot-time RAM disks and loop mounting, but it doesn't sound like an terribly optimal solution.
$699? Ouch...
I think I'd rather have a cheap used laptop for that price. More functionality, about the same weight.
Stop corporate
3-4 hours battery life, tops, according to the review
I know I've posted this before, but how long will it be until Apple realizes what they're missing? Slap that LCD on a current generation iPod (or iPod mini if you really want to make a lightweight device), port QuickTime video to it, and poof, a pocket sized multimedia device that will put most anything else on the market to shame.
I think it's the logical progression to see PDA's start to take on parts from laptops/desktops. PDA's are really the Laptop's of our generation. A USB host controller is awesome because of all of the USB devices that exist. USB Networking is a definite plus, but most everything is going to Bluetooth/WiFi anyways.
Either way, this is a damned cool PDA, even if hella expensive, and I can't wait to see something like this, but cheaper, or any of the improvements from above are added (micro hd, minus usb host controller, plus wifi AND bluetooth, plus quicktime/some movie player).
"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
until my little book ended up in a mudpuddle. Palms are dirt cheap on ebay, and they have that ever-handy "sync" feature. ..they still all suck for drawing with though :(
..don't panic
and this one's much cheaper, and yes, it runs Linux. Simputer
My Favourite Meme
The Z6000, like all Zaurii before it, has a sliding cover thumb keyboard built in...
The one thing I dont understand is the high cost of certain Linux based PDA's. Given the cost saving on the operating system licensing surely that should be passed onto the consumer. The hardware itself isnt radically different from PocketPC based devices which in general cost less. Sooner or later I'll be in the market for a PDA but i dont think I should have to pay extra for the privelege of not having to use a Microsoft based one.
The real question is out of the newer specification PDA's which ones can be re-flashed with Linux and work as well as the sharp offering ? I suppose a palm based device might be an alternative but i want my bash shell and dev tools to boot .
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
Does it run Windows Mobile 2003?
This really is a Geek dream come true.
Oh, and the geekiest of the geeky things: I've shown it to Ken Coar while he was wisiting Croatia, and guess what - he was jealous!
... for that kinda loot, it needs a built in camera. All kinza cellphones have that now, seems they missed that.
but.. it also looks like maybe something we were discussing with regards wifi, some sort of low power remote relay for doing homebrew line of sight jumps to get wifi to remote areas. Small enough to be stashed someplace out of the way, low enough power that a solar panel and batteries might make it work. Although most likely there is a cheaper pda-like device with even better power management/lower requirements that would do the same, because the screen would be hardly ever used, grey scale would be fine for that.
I keep thinking yikes, that's a lot of loot for this thing. Start to think about it, sheesh. I'm thinking PDAs need to be way closer to the 200$ range all the time, after that, you are heading rapidly towards (used) laptop prices, and at 700$, most likely there's a new one out there someplace close to that.
What they need is a comparison shootout, with computer things being sold as PDAs compared to computer things being sold as telephones, dollar for dollar feature for feature. They are merging fast.
Linux + non-volatile + fits in your hand. I'm pretty sure customizing and tweaking this pda would be alot easier and fun for us geeks.
With that in mind it makes it appearant why it's not targeted for consumers.
Zaurus -> Zauri.
I know that you can quibble about what the plural of 'virus' is as it's derived from an uncountable noun, but as Zaurus is clearly derived from Saurus (=lizard)
1 Saurus -> 2 Sauri
1 Zaurus -> 2 Zauri
'Zaurii' is obviously the plural of 'Zaurius', as 'Triarii' is the plural of 'Triarius'. Now go and write 'romani ite domus' on the wall 100 times.
Only 6 years after Windows 98! Yay Linux!
Here is a comparison chart of the SHARP Zaurus Linux PDA series. The survey contains also the internal code names for the PDAs, which are taken from dog races (Collie, Boxer, Poodle, ..).
"Full" review if made for Short Attn Span Theatre. If crap is king, we have a winner. I could say more but I've got to go to K5.
Would have been great if they had made it a smartphone for that price ... Motorola A760 is a linux-based smartphone and it is cheap (i've heard rumors of a successor - forget the name though).
My current Vaio has about 2 hours of battery. It's running Gentoo with the 2.6 kernel, and I've managed to get it to flip the speedstep processor down. It really only makes the computer run slower. The backlight on the display is what chews battery like gum.
For my purposes, I need a full keyboard. I actually find the back of a municpal transit bus the ideal place to code. I get on the bus at the first stop, and always take the seat right behind the rear door. That sheet metal barrier they set up gives me a few extra inches of room to flip the screen up.
And yes, the laptop does operate well off my lap. And I usually type comfortably with someone in the next seat, unless they are a creasote or something.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
I have to say that I'm shocked, just shocked, that people are posting the following drivel without reading the article or learning anything about this machine:
... year and half to enter a command with handwriting recognition ...
... given up on PDAs ...
... You're not carrying this thing in your pocket; ... I stick to my [Windows-tax-paying, Linux-fighting] Compaq
... rather have ... laptop for that price. More functionality, about the same weight ...
... hardware itself isnt radically different from PocketPC ... should pass on Linux saving to consumer ... I never took Econ 101 ...
... needs a built-in camera ...
... should be feature for feature like a phone and cost $200 and I am an idiot ...
1.
When I use Konsole (tabbed terminal---better than the default), I do it in one of three ways: (a) built-in keyboard, (b) Happy Hacking Keyboard Lite 2 (with control key in correct position) attached to the USB connector, or (c) ssh from another machine with a full-size keyboard, since the SL-6000L is usually on the network when I'm around other machines.
2.
It's not a pda, it's a small Linux machine I wear on a camera strap around my neck and use while standing up on a totally wifi campus where I need to be mobile.
3.
I previously used a Clie, about the size of your Linux-fighting Compaq, and found it was no fun to carry in a pocket, either. Plus, it didn't do enough to replace my laptop.
4.
If you can find a 10.5 ounce laptop for that price, get it. I dare you to.
5.
The SL-6000L has a VASTLY better screen than any PocketPC. It is VASTLY more ruggedized than any PocketPC. It has VASTLY more features (USB host, 802.11b) than any PocketPC. It's made in VASTLY smaller quantities than any PocketPC.
6.
Thanks to Sharp for NOT including a built-in camera. I need to take it into places where cameras are no longer allowed (thanks Donald Rumsfled, this totally solves the torture problem) for government meetings. I don't want builtin cameras on anything really important.
7.
Well, you got the last part right, but seriously, it's not about features, it's about usability. This thing is usable as a phone, but it's really a laptop replacement for people who want to use a computer in situations other than sitting in one place for long periods.
Finally, I would like to comment that Opera on this machine is the most impressive example of an application fitting a machine I've seen in a very long time. I use http://local.google.com to find services in my new home at Carnegie Mellon, a very wifi campus, for instance, and this is the fulfillment of the promise of mobile computing.
I understand what you are saying, yes, laptops can't be stuck in your pocket. Wasn't really my point though. It's just fairly expensive for what it does, IMO anyway. If I got one it would have to be rugged/weatherised as all get out, I destroy just normal wristwatches while I am working. Don't want to risk it with anything really expensive. I've destroyed clip on the belt walkman like things before, radio/cassette devices. I don't do the urban/office/student thing, I work outside. And weight doesn't bother me, I am always amazed that the obvious solution to laptop battery life isn't taken-just use dual or triple batteries built in, and "struggle" with an extra pound or two weight. That's a side issue though, the wimperization of our society.....
I don't even carry my cellphone, it would be destroyed or horribly grunged out within a week if I did. When beepers first came out, same deal, kept smashing them. I tried it before with my cell, lasted about three days and it got dropped from around 15 foot up. Still worked, it fell on a lawn,but still...I keep it in the ride or whatever or if I go out "to town" with GF she carries it in her purse. I run chainsaws, tractors, hand tools like picks and shovels and axes and machetes and brushhooks, sometimes in some pretty rough terrain, etc and always got to stop and fix stuff as well, it's just too impractical for me to have an easily broken device hanging on my belt or even in like a cargo pants pocket. I could *probably* do it, but it would limit me as instead of working and concentrating on the task at hand I'd be constantly worrying about the doo-dad and having to adjust what I am doing in order not to break the thing. Now, if they built a PDA/phone combo with all the bells and whistles into a ruggedized normal flashlight, say a two D-cell sized flashlight, then *maybe*. 700$ wouldn't seem too bad then. I can carry one of those hanging from a small cord and a dog clip all the time and very rarely break one and getting it oil and dirt grunged never effects them that much.
hmm, think I just had a good idea....prior art!
If it's small enough that you are forced to use thumbs, it is definitely a "keypad". Keyboards are so named because of their resemblance to wooden boards.
....but I'll stick with my Treo 600.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
I would agree with you. Escpecially since I own a Zaurus SL-5500, and an IBM X20 whose battery no longer holds any charge whatsoever.
However, I also just bought a Pontiac Vibe (twin to the Toyota Matrix), and it has a passenger seat that converts into a desk and a 115-volt AC outlet in the dash (I think the Honda Element has like features). Suddenly, that laptop with its DVD player is a lot more useful, especially on long hauls with my 2-year-old.
I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.
The problem with that (I presume) is that ipods run ARM processors, not PowerPC. They couldn't put anything other than OS X on there without damaging their credibility, so they'd have to port Darwin and OS X to ARM. They probably opensourced Darwin because they couldn't spare the resources for a port to x86 themselves. So they sure as hell can't spare the resources for a port to ARM, for the sake of an iPod.
:)
Even if they managed it, and OS X was fast enough on ARM, the graphics would still run like crap. OS X ran like crap on my 500 mhz iBook, before I put Linux on instead. So they'd need a powerful GPU on there, too, rather than just a framebuffer.
And then there's the battery. iPods seem to have battery issues. Given Apple's reluctance to replace 'em, I figure they're spending a lot on the built-in batteries, and praying they don't have to replace 'em.
In short, I think someone might at Apple have a heart attack if you suggest turning iPods into iPaqs
At least not from how it appears on Sharp's own site. I can't find anywhere to actually purhcase a Zaurus of any model.
The Zaurus has a CF slot so you can just plug in a one of IBM's CF MicroDrives.
I'm probably going to be modded troll for this, or just ignored, but it's gotta be said.
Compare this: set of pictures of a HP iPAQ 4155/4150
with this (the article) set of pictures.
The 4155 can be obtained from newegg for $400, and the Zaurus has a list price of $700 (almost 2x the price), and the only extra thing the zaurus offers feature-wise is a VGA screen. Also, the 4155 is the 2nd-smallest PocketPC right now (with the 19xx series being 1st), small enough to keep it in my pocket all day without it being annoying.
Yes, i own a 4155.
no comment
I have an iBook. Granted, it's a few years old now, so maybe things have changed, but I get nowhere near 6 hours of battery life. I typically get around 3, 2 if I'm using the CD/DVD drive extensively. But then again, that doesn't bother me. The things are really well built. Just the right number of ports, a well built case that is tough enough to withstand all kinds of light bumps, and the great OS X software.
I had a PDA that I used on occasion, but now that I have this, I haven't turned it on in years. If I want something extremely portable, I have my contacts in my iPod. Sure, I can't edit them, but I rarely need to.
Now my situation might not be typical. I bike to work, so I can't use a PDA/laptop on my way to work. If I were using public transportation, maybe a PDA would be a better choice? I don't know.
I gotta get the aux input hooked up in my car so I can use it as an Ogg / mp3 player. I've tested it a couple times and thats spiff.
As far as geeky toys go, Zarus's are hard to beat. If you're all into practicality and that kind of crap then go get a 10 cent notebook from wally mart.
Clickety Click
I get 3.5+ hours on the 860 *with* wif use (browsing) .. ie: not continuous streaming.
You can fly across the country listening to mp3s and playing games, or watching movies.... without using > 40% of the battery.
Laptops are delicate and easy to steal. If you have one outside your fortress - you are shackled to the thing. You cannot put it down - check it - put it in overhead storage, or under the table.
In public places it will evaporate faster than spilled vodka.
Travellers want to carry less of the computer and borrow a big display and keyboard at the hotel destination if necessary.
You can give a presentation from a small box with a big HD.
You can get email on a small box with a small display.
You could edit / practice - even give your presentation at the hotel by connecting to the TV.
you can check the keyboard in luggage.
Here's an idea for small screen - big results:
Since most of the screen is options and button which you rarely use. Create a virtual screen in which the edges are condensed or compressed. The scroll bars would be very narrow, the title bar would be a thin blue line - which would stretch as your curser approached.
Then you would feel pretty comfortable on a small screen
AIK
Anyone know of any developer resources for the Zaurus line? The official Sharp DevNet is down... and has been down for a long time. Until they get with it and support their developers I don't see how they are going to get many apps.
JOhn
Campaign for Liberty
Here's a thought...how about a kernel hook to automatically bump up processor speed when there's more than one process waiting to execute, and knock it down when there's only one?
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
There are a couple of compactflash usb host controllers on the market (that you can use with an iPaq or Zaurus 5k series), but they are around $200.
Also note that all PC card USB controllers are 32-bit cardbus cards, and will not work in the 16 bit PCMCIA sleeve for the iPaq.
The Zaurus also has an integrated thumb-keyboard, which is a real killer feature, at least on my (5000d) zaurus... That alone is enough to make it way better than any pocket pc to date. External keyboards just aren't the same.
~Victor~ Ignorance is excusable. Stupidity is not.
the Element has handy shelf to put your gear, 12V outlet and audio IN, but not the AC.
Tipex is a specific name brand of white out that in many other countries has become the defacto name used to describe it (much like Band-Aid is used to describe addhesive strips and J-ello is used to describe those coloured jelly deserts)
The Neo-Bohemian Techno-Socialist
I'll never ever buy a pda without an integrated keypad.
Handwriting recognition software blows.
The iBook has Processor Cycling. That's where it'll increase the CPU speed when there's a bigger load, and drop it back down when it's idling. It's all in the energy management panel.
It's been around since at least OS9.
"That's so plausible, I can't believe it!" - Leela
Nice, but I was thinking along the lines of the Linux Kernel, since that's what I use. (Almost exclusively.)
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
Google for cpufreqd. You can set it up to drop down to different frequencies depending on CPU load, battery state, running apps, whatever.
WeRelate.org - wiki-based genealogy
I've found the backlight and hard drive use far more power than the processor, regardless of the mode.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
I wasn't really responding to your issues, per se...just spouting an idea upon inspiration.
It makes sense that the backlight would be a heavy user of your battery. Can you adjust its brightness?
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
Judging by the google ad on that article.. ;)
spendbling.com
The Pentium-M doesn't seem to be able to do much more computation with a given a mount of power than any other CPU; it just does a better job of scaling down power usage when you're not crunching.
As for the HLT instruction, I don't know that there's any OS that doesn't issue it, nor do I know whether it helps at all. You'd think it would be easy to make it so a CPU not doing anything wouldn't use (hardly) any power; apparently that's not true.
Besides, the iPaq can be a linux PDA too.
I'd be interested in your success rates if so... who needs a gameboy / ngage if you can play all your roms (come on we know you have them)
How big are we talking? Will it at least fit in the trunk of my car?
I wonder if you could get a pockettop keyboard and use it through the IR port, then attach a little USB mouse to it and quite literally have an incredibly mobile computing center. That would rock for note taking in college... Only problem is it probably doesn't support the mouse... But then again it's Linux and on a java/Qt platform so you may be able to do that sorta thing yourself...
Please, try not to sound so stupid...
I'd love to see a Beowulf cluster of these things? :-)
---
- that's when i got my 5500! $149.95! - how low can you go? only 10,000 units left!
It doesn't mention if this zaurus has the same short "flashspan" as the previous models. Especially for the cost of a cheap new laptop, I'd like a unit that will last.
The Zaurus is a tiny linux box. A powerful, tiny linux box. The first thing you should do when you get a Z is wipe the OS and instead install the excellent OpenZaurus (OZ). OZ is better than the original Linux install in nearly every respect. Don't think of your Z as a PDA, it's more like a tiny laptop. Some of the things I do with mine:
:-)
:-) and your neighbours will never be safe again :-)
:-) TKC are you listening? Remove the check please :-)
:-)
:-)
:-) Since perl and gcc work fine, I really
haven't run into any common exploits I can't compile or run properly.
email: I recently compiled Mutt with a IMAP header cache patch. One of the most powerful email clients in the palm of my hand
wireless sniffing: As you know, Kismet rules the land of wireless sniffers. Pop a wireless card in your Z (or get a 6000
mp3/ogg playing: Using either Opie-Player2 or the excellent tkcplayer. Unfortunatly, I can't use the tkcplayer on the very latest version of OpenZaurus, not because it won't run (because it DOES almost start up when using "runcompat" but then tells me it can't run on this platform-- which it CAN otherwise it wouldn't be able to tell me that
Video playing: using a port of the best linux movie player mplayer. I've encoded a bunch of movies down to ~200MB with great results. You can pop a couple of these on a 512MB card for those long flights
Coding: Of course, I've got gcc and perl loaded on the puppy. Hell, without perl I wouldn't be able to run Chaosreader, makes those long hotel stays much more interesting
Exploit testing
A couple of hints and tricks:
1) If you want to extend your battery life while doing things like mp3 playing or wardriving, grab something like Qoverclock and use it to UNDERCLOCK your Z. Turn down (or off) the display as well. Poke at it a bit and realize you can easily make a shell script to do without the GUI.
2) To maximize your space on root, ram, sd and cf, the single best thing to use is UCLX which works just like UPX. UCLX/UPX are executeable file compressors-- you compress your executable and when you run it it decompresses (to ram) on the fly. The compression it uses is AT LEAST as good as gzip (or better) and the decompression is very fast. When using slower media like SD (or even CF) you'll find that executables will run FASTER compressed then they would uncompressed-- the CPU can decompress much smaller exe faster than the much larger uncompressed exe could be loaded from media and run.
3) When choosing a root/ram disk size for OpenZaurus, it's a good idea to pick a small root with a much larger ram disk. If (when) you need more ram, you can simply make some ramdisk swap files.
4) While you can run gcc right on the Z, it's also nice to us a cross compiler on your (much faster) desktop and then just cp the binary over. If you're too lazy to do cross compiles (or don't want to set up a ton of additional packages like ncurses, etc), you can also just ssh into the IPAQ development cluster and compile your code there. Typically it will run without issue-- sometimes you may want/need to statically link your programs or just grab the libraries from the ipaq and throw 'em on your Z. I haven't found a single thing yet I couldn't get to run.
5) Assuming you grab the required libraries, you can run basically all of the sw in th
-- I speak only for myself.
The hope of them releasing a Netbook Pro with EPOC just wont happen,
despite the petition which began around August 2002.
And besides being a Linux convert, Sharp Zaurus can only add to my learning - so it really looks I may end up buying one instead of a say the older Netbook.
But one question is the keys. Please advise anyone - owner of a Zaurus!
They look from the images kind of hard type, I don't want to strain my fingers nor do I want to type with a toothpick.
Netbook seems very ergonomical and looks like you can type 50 words per minute - no problem.
I hope Sharp Zaurus is the same.
I wanted to use a PDA as a diary (or programming platform) not just scribbling nervous acronyms on screen with a stylus.
ac said: ... needs a built-in camera ...
>> >> 6.
>> Thanks to Sharp for NOT including a built-in camera. I need to take it into places where cameras are no longer allowed [snip] for government meetings. I don't want builtin cameras on anything really important.
Any facility that doesn't allow you to bring in a camera probably also doesn't allow you to bring in a microphone. The 6000L has a built-in microphone, so you're definitely not going to see it on any "approved devices" lists for the types of facilities you're talking about.