HP Announces Support For MySQL, JBoss

IBM... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-31 05:29 · Score: 5, Interesting

a label many enterprises and HP rivals, such as IBM and Dell, are working toward.'"
IBM is already open source friendly. Dell isn't open source friendly and doesn't seem to be trying either.

Re:IBM... by Nuclear+Elephant · 2004-05-31 05:37 · Score: 5, Interesting

Part of HP's plan had better include eliminating the planned obsolescence of their products. You used to have to pay $20 for a new printer for a CD to make it work with other windows versions. The open source community generally doesn't like the idea of having to buy a new printer every time there's a new kernel update (weekly?). HP's screwed us before with their DVD writers and other products...so IMO they've got to do a lot more than support open source to get my business. It would help if they built quality products that weren't designed to be replaced every 6-12 months.
Re:IBM... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-31 06:12 · Score: 3, Informative

It figures an AC would say that: http://linux.dell.com/
Just making a front on your website saying you support Linux doesn't make it so. I own a Dell Laptop, I've requested many times to have correct Linux drivers for my video card, Dell has not complied. If you had actually bothered to visit the Dell support forums for Linux you would have found a large group of unhappy and frustrated Linux users that had the misfortune of purchasing a Dell.
Good Day.
Re:IBM... by chabotc · 2004-05-31 06:25 · Score: 2, Funny

Actually i would call Dell pretty open source friendly. For the longest time they have supported and developed drivers for their PowerEdge servers (and sold those with linux installed and supported before IBM announced it's new linux strategy), and offered Linux server and pre-installed (and supported) Oracle on linux servers. Also they have supplied some of the major tv networks here in the netherlands with mpg storage and play back servers..

No they are not a software development company, so they are not as visable as some, and they choose not to alienate MS (unlike like IBM who obviously still has some revenge issues). But they support Linux where it matters.. Selling products and giving support on them
Re:IBM... by BiggerIsBetter · 2004-05-31 06:31 · Score: 4, Insightful

IBM is already very very very open source friendly. Sounds like HP is just jumping on the bandwagon. Selling support for OSS software isn't really "cozy" either - it's just leaching onto a growing market share. Call me when they start contributing to the code in a meaningful way, or helping folks no IRC.

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Re:IBM... by Wise+Dragon · 2004-05-31 06:31 · Score: 2, Informative

> It would help if they built quality products that weren't designed to be replaced every 6-12 months.
They do, in their business line of printers. Consumers don't really want stuff that will last forever, they want to have the latest and greatest of almost everything, not just computer hardware. Businesses want reliability and ROI.
> HP's screwed us before with their DVD writers and other products...
I was curious about this so I checked to see if you can use open source tools to write to HP dvd writers. Turns out you can. So if you don't mind, please elaborate on the alleged screwing that took place.
Re:IBM... by Nuclear+Elephant · 2004-05-31 06:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

Consumers IMO deserve printers that will last more than a year. There's a difference between a consumer product and something that's just cheap. With regards to the DVD writers, HP promised all of their customers that they'd be able to upgrade the firmware on their first generation writers to support DVD+RW when it was available. When it did become available, they erased a bunch of documentation from their website, denied they ever said it, and made people buy new writers. I've seen this same tactic used in the PocketPC market with their iPaqs as well as other hardware - they design their products to try and generate monthly residual rather than building a good product.

Their Crawler is Killing Sites by Nuclear+Elephant · 2004-05-31 05:30 · Score: 4, Interesting

I don't know if this has anything to do with HP's new plan for open source, but they seem to have a new web crawler that is beating on websites hosting open-source software and ignoring (not even requesting) the robots.txt file they're supposed to leash themselves to. I've noticed this on about 3 different websites and we've had to blackhole their address space indefinitely.

Re:Their Crawler is Killing Sites by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-31 06:51 · Score: 2, Interesting
1. I don't know if this has anything to do with HP's new plan for open source, but they seem to have a new web crawler that is beating on websites hosting open-source software and ignoring (not even requesting) the robots.txt file they're supposed to leash themselves to. I've noticed this on about 3 different websites and we've had to blackhole their address space indefinitely.
Why not put in a poison pill page that is not referenced in robots.txt and is linked with human readable text like "this is a link to an invalid page to catch bad bots!"?
That way, if any group attempts to index a site you can either feed them garbage (serves them right) or auto-blackhole any crawler that attempts to dig too much into the poisoned area?
The blackhole could be temporary, elminiating the need for you to maintan the list at all. (Don't want to ban on the first error...just in case to cover some odd but valid situation you're not aware of that is somehow OK...though I can't think of any off hand!)
I'm sure there are a few of these scripts out there...shouldn't be too hard to find one.

PostgreSQL? by danharan · 2004-05-31 05:30 · Score: 5, Insightful

Great news, but...

Anyone know why MySQL as opposed to a more standards-compliant db like PG?

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Re:PostgreSQL? by captainclever · 2004-05-31 05:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

Public relations?
MySQL is practically a household name compared to Postgres.

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Re:PostgreSQL? by rtaylor · 2004-05-31 05:42 · Score: 5, Insightful

It's difficult to partner with PG as there is not a controlling company. Both MySQL and JBoss have firms which will train HP freely and perhaps even take on part of the load in return for commercial contracts.

With PG they're basically stuck trying to learn it themselves. RedHat would train HP, but RedHat doesn't want to be known for offerring PostgreSQL support since Oracle didn't like RedHat Database competition very much.

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Rod Taylor
Re:PostgreSQL? by Nuclear+Elephant · 2004-05-31 05:43 · Score: 5, Funny

MySQL is practically a household name compared to Postgres.

Yeah just the other day my grandmother asked me to pass the MySQL at the dinner table. And I heard a knock at the door, and when I answered it there were three Jehova witnesses trying to convince me to upgrade to 4.x
Re:PostgreSQL? by njcoder · 2004-05-31 07:01 · Score: 2, Informative

uhm.... SAP/DB is now MySQL MaxDB

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Open Source Java DAO Generator
Re:PostgreSQL? by jamiebecker · 2004-05-31 08:31 · Score: 5, Informative

I'd like to respond to this without starting a PG vs MySQL flamewar.

I'm well aware of many advantages that PostgreSQL offers over MySQL (e.g., nearly full SQL92 support, stored procedures in many languages, "object-oriented" storage, views, triggers, etc) and also the performance advantage that MySQL enjoys over PostgreSQL for some operations.

We've chosen MySQL over Postgresql because that is what our enterprise customers have requested. If we have sufficient interest in Postgresql, it will definitely move up on the roadmap.

Jamie Becker
Project Manager
HP Open Source Reference Architecture
HP Services
jamieson dot becker at hp dot com

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https://jamiesonbecker.com
Re:PostgreSQL? by Sxooter · 2004-05-31 15:11 · Score: 2, Informative

It's difficult to partner with PG as there is not a controlling company.

I'm sorry, but I just disagree on this. While there is no one company to partner with financially, there certainly is a single controlling group known as the "PostgreSQL Global Development Group" or PGDG.

Much like the Apache Group, the PGDG is the group that's the head mofos in charge. Their website is developer.postgresql.org

Much like the Apache Group, the PGDG is made up of the key developers, each sponsored in one way or another by some interested party. If HP were wanting to sponsor a developer to work on PostgreSQL, it is quite likely that they could find one or two good ones already working on it in their spare time who would be happy to stay at home and hack on it. Compare the developer mailing lists for both MySQL and PostgreSQL, and you'll find a much larger number of developers working on PostgreSQL than MySQL.

By the way, there is a seperate marketing arm, hosted on advocacy.postgresql.org which is where PostgreSQL

But claiming you need a commercial arm in order to properly partner with an Open Source project is to completely misunderstand how real open source projects get done.

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Sleeping with JBoss... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-31 05:31 · Score: 2, Funny

...doesn't seem like the best way to make the open source community trust you...

JBoss is Great! by captainclever · 2004-05-31 05:31 · Score: 5, Funny

Wow, the story mentioned JBoss.
I know from experience that JBoss is the absolute BEST bit of software out there, it's so great. I can't recommend it enough. It's soooo much better than the competition..

Ahem.. :)

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Re:JBoss is Great! by Timesprout · 2004-05-31 05:35 · Score: 4, Funny

Marc, you promised to stop astroturfing. Now go to your room and no cheese for you tonight!

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Re:JBoss is Great! by Kenja · 2004-05-31 06:02 · Score: 2, Funny

" JBoss is the absolute BEST bit of software out there"
Are you kidding? I've never played such a crap game. No plot, poor graphics, and dont even get me started on the controls.

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Apple also supports it by damieng · 2004-05-31 05:31 · Score: 5, Informative

If anybody's interested - both JBoss and MySQL ship as part of OS X Server (as well as a few other open-source products).

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[)amien

HP support by KoriaDesevis · 2004-05-31 05:32 · Score: 5, Interesting

The article states that HP is giving testing and hardware support to these packages, and I assume that means they'll come up with a nifty little logo to show that it's "HP-Ready"... While that's all well and good, will they offer third-party technical support to users when these packages crash on HP servers? If not, who gets left holding the bag? If it were not open source, it would be cut and dry, but with the packages being open source and freely available, the issue of technical support gets blurred. The article didn't go into this fine point.

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A love beyond compare...

Re:HP support by Bickel · 2004-05-31 07:38 · Score: 2, Informative

In addition to certifying a stack of software - RedHat, SUSE, JRockit, JBoss, MySQL - HP will be delivering integrated support and implementation services. This means a customer can but everything from HP, and HP will provide the first level of support to JBoss and MySQL and escalate issues to JBoss, Inc. and MySQL AB if needed as part of the JBoss and MySQL support contracts. Some customers may prefer this to buying separately and contacting separately HP, JBoss and MySQL - but you can still do that if you like... Bob Bickel JBoss

HP Is Relentlessly Uncommitting by fastdecade · 2004-05-31 05:37 · Score: 4, Insightful

I don't read much into this.

HP has always jumped back, forth, and sideways in their "embracing" strategies. One day, they'll promote Java, the next day you'll hear nothing about it. Same with Linux. Compare that to IBM - they have a strong, consistent, stance on both Java and Linux.

Part of this inconsistency is likely due to politics behind the Compaq merger. But it's gone on longer than that - for example, whatever happened to all their embedded consumer devices (I think it was branded "cool city")? All this indicates HP has big political problems, which is causing it to lack any direction.

Re:HP Is Relentlessly Uncommitting by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-31 05:46 · Score: 3, Insightful

no, the inconsistency comes from the fact that the only one profitable part of HP's business is selling ink.

Apple already does this by daveschroeder · 2004-05-31 05:39 · Score: 4, Informative

Apple already ships MySQL and JBoss with Mac OS X Server, and supports basic use (e.g., enabling, basic use) via free support channels, or advanced support of any aspect via Mac OS X Server Software Support products.

Re:Apple already does this by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-31 07:20 · Score: 2, Interesting

Nobody runs OS X as a unix. It performs like a dog. Maybe for some school work.

HP? by turgid · 2004-05-31 05:48 · Score: 4, Informative

I can't understand why anyone would buy anything from HP when you can get exactly the same stuff from Dell at about 60% of the price. HP sales staff suck. They couldn't care less about your order. Dell will have you quoted up to your satisfation, and the stuff shipped to the right address withing 2-3 days. HP takes about 6 weeks, charges you more, gets your order wrong, blames you and then charges you more to put it right.

I for one will not be buying from HP ever again, except maybe for laser printers...

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What this REALLY means... by MosesJones · 2004-05-31 05:50 · Score: 5, Insightful

IBM have WebSphere and DB2

Oracle have 10gAS and Oracle 10g

SAP have Netweaver and SapDB

Microsoft have .NET and SQLServer.

HP abandoned their old App Server and have worked out how to get good mindshare for low investment on a new one.

Pretty smart move by HP as it puts them back in the "solutions" market and tied in with their SI business means they have a real opportunity in the custom build market.

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Re:What this REALLY means... by turgid · 2004-05-31 05:52 · Score: 5, Insightful

Pretty smart move by HP as it puts them back in the "solutions" market and tied in with their SI business means they have a real opportunity in the custom build market.
Er no, HP have now painted themselves into a corner at the bottom of the low end. All the other big companies must be laughing all the way to the bank. Nice one again HP.

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Stick Men
Re:What this REALLY means... by Timesprout · 2004-05-31 06:18 · Score: 2, Insightful

I think you are right on the money here. HP embarassed themselves with their indecision on Bluestone. Selecting MySQL and JBoss does not inspire confidence that HP will be a factor in the services market with the big players which is where the real money is these days, both MySQL and JBoss lack serious enterprise grunt. Also if you are looking to build a reputation JBoss might be a tad on the volatile side.

It seems a strange choice that given their resources HP could have taken stewardship of other server projects and customised them for their needs. MySQL and JBoss looks like the bargain basement quick fix.

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Re:Dual Licensing by lokedhs · 2004-05-31 05:55 · Score: 5, Insightful

Why not just use Postgres and be done with it? Better and it's really free. :-)

Re:Dell cozying up with open source? by Timesprout · 2004-05-31 05:56 · Score: 3, Insightful

What are you asking here for? Call Dell and ask them. When enough people do that they will probably provide it. One issue would be driver support on their higher end systems, another would be what distro should they provide, there will only be moaning if geekoid the geek cant get his favourite distro pre installed and I imagine supporting several distros would be a major pain in the ass for Dell. I would think Dell would rather provide an unformatted drive and an installer dvd of your requested distro and dump the install grief on the enduser.

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They've found the cure for NIHS by SpamJunkie · 2004-05-31 06:00 · Score: 4, Insightful

This is obviously a sign that they've found a cure for that pox upon the tech sector, NIHS or Not Invented Here Syndrome. I estimate, based on absolutely no data, that NIHS costs the US economy billions of dollars.

HP showed signs of beating NIHS with their iPod deal with Apple. With this announcement they have shown that they have a cure for NIHS, at least in some quantity.

People and corporations with NIHS, unlike normal people, have an unfounded fear of technologies they didn't invent. It is related to paranoid dylusion. Countless hours and money is spent recreating technology that has already been inveted by someone else.

It is yet to be seen if HP will sell their NIHS cure to other companies or keep it for themselves as a competitive edge. However, even if they do decide to sell the cure it is likely that most people and corporations will fear the NIHS cure and attempt to create their own.

Re:They've found the cure for NIHS by turgid · 2004-05-31 06:03 · Score: 4, Insightful

What HP is showing is that they're the Microsoft of the hardware world. Rather than investing in R&D to develop new stuff, they'll wait until someone else takes the lead, maybe loses their shirt and then copy them with a slightly inferior but more conformist product.
In my day HP was like DEC, IBM and other great.respected corporations. Then they got Carly and it all went downhill...

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Stick Men
Re:They've found the cure for NIHS by Chris+Brewer · 2004-05-31 08:37 · Score: 2, Informative

Just to point out the obvious, HP was DEC. DEC was bought out by compaq who then merged with HP. Those compaq proliant servers? Rebadged digitals. The hp branded monitor and keyboard that I'm sitting at right now are identical to the compaq monitor and keyboard a couple of desks over, just the brand has changed (the model numbers are still the same)

The hp compaq d530 I'm using is pretty nice though - P4 2.8G, pity it's running NT4 (as is still the corporate standard here).

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Re:Your analogy is flawed. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-31 06:56 · Score: 2, Interesting

I'm sorry, but what he's asking for is more like someone who goes to the ice cream store and demands a different flavour of ice cream - one that tastes a hell of a lot better, and costs a hell of a lot less.

So... You're saying pickle flavored ice cream? Fine... I'll bite.

The point is that when enough people demand pickles (or pickle flavored ice cream), then the market will respond. Right now, linux lovers just aren't that significant (sorry- just being honest).

Right now, the fact is that TASTE is subjective, and you are in the (miniscule) minority. Price don't seem to matter. Look at generic web clients. Though linux has been around longer than OS-X, you typically see more OS-X browsers than Linux. And OS-X isn't cheap! Plus manufacturers get deals from MicroSux to preload Windoze onto all their machines (largely negating your cost factor).

Linux is a great server. It's a great embedded platform. It makes great appliances. It does NOT make a great desktop. I hope someday it does (and which, you can expect MS to offer "Longhorn Home" or "Lite" as a free download).

Is it really about open source assistance? by aixguru1 · 2004-05-31 07:22 · Score: 5, Insightful

Come on folks, look at the bigger picture. Look at the two projects they are going to support, MySQL, and JBoss.

Now look at their competitors products (IBM) Websphere and DB2 products. The reasons have to be more than just jumping on the bandwagon with open source. IBM has two products that are similar to the exact two projects HP chose to help.

All is fair in business, but HP isn't going to throw money at projects just to claim they are on the open source bandwagon. I believe the direct intent is to improve MySQL and JBoss to go head to head with IBM on this one.

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Re:Is it really about open source assistance? by kpharmer · 2004-05-31 16:06 · Score: 2, Insightful

> Too much Java shit. From the very start, that sucker wants ~200 MB of ram

I feel for you - I'm not a huge fan of java. However, keep in mind that WebSphere is a Java application server, it is 2004, and is probably targeted at application servers with 4+ gbytes of memory.

> DB2, too many java processes make my box want to commit suicide thats all I can say.

Then you need to move up to at least a 386 ;-). Seriously, I run db2 on my laptop with 1 gbyte of memory with no problems. Then again, it is also really targeted at servers with 2-4+ gbytes in memory. Also, keep in mind that the java based install is optional, you can also install without it.

> Next day, I run my mysql prompt.
> friendly mysql> greets you. It is good to be back!

While I understand an impatience with awkward installers, the differences in reliability, flexibility, and performance between mysql & db2 more than make up for a little extra time spent upfront. The DB2 development staff does not have a design philosophy of "sweep errors under the carpet" the way that mysql does (please don't ask me to back that up, you can easily find evidence of this attitude in their work-arounds & known issue lists). And as far as db2 features go - db2 had more features in 1982 than mysql does today.

So yeah, mysql is much easier to install than db2. A bike is much less complex than a car too.

Questions about HP Open Source LRA? by jamiebecker · 2004-05-31 08:49 · Score: 5, Informative

I'd be happy to respond to questions about this supported and certified architecture that may not be answered in this article.

Jamie Becker
Project Manager
HP Open Source Linux Reference Architecture
HP Services
jamieson dot becker at hp dot com

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https://jamiesonbecker.com

my 2 cents by MasTRE · 2004-05-31 10:25 · Score: 2, Insightful

IBM is already into OSS in a big way, was Chroniton born yesterday?

HP is (was?) an innovator, Dell is.. well, like McDonald's, sorta. Doesn't taste that good, isn't as cheap as it should be, given the quality (or lack thereof). But thru marketing you always hear of them, and lots of people simply buy their [usually inferior] products.

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Do You Bill For Advising Clients? by occamboy · 2004-05-31 13:03 · Score: 2, Insightful

I suppose that it's OK to support something like mySQL, which is so clearly inferior to PostgreSQL, if such support is demanded.

However, if clients are asking for advice, are you telling them to go with mySQL because that's what they want to hear? Or are you leveling with them and telling them that PostgreSQL is far, far better?

Re:I'll believe it when I see it by bunyip · 2004-05-31 14:19 · Score: 2, Informative

When I see MYSQL running on Itanium...

Well, I've seen MySQL running on Itanium, we have a whole cluster of them at work, in production since December. MySQL supports it and we get the binaries directly from them, so I don't see any obstacle to getting it via HP.

Alan.

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