Slashdot Mirror


Blackout Was Good News, For Pollution

squidfrog writes "In regard to the August blackout, University of Maryland researchers have announced the results of measurements indicating the level of pollution normally caused by power plants in the region of the blackout, which could be measured for the first time by comparing the idle power plants with those still operational. 'Aircraft sampling in the 24 hours following the blackout found a 90 percent drop in sulfur dioxide and a 50 percent cut in ozone levels, while visibility increased by more than 25 miles.'" MSNBC has a related story.

19 of 64 comments (clear)

  1. NPR Radio Story by bryanp · · Score: 4, Informative

    There was a fairly informative story about this on NPR recently. You can listen to it here

    One of the nice things is that such a quick change bodes well for the effectiveness of improved scrubbers and clean-air standards applied to existing power plants, some of which are supposed to reduce emissions by as much as 50%.

    --
    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Col. Jeff Cooper
    1. Re:NPR Radio Story by Alsee · · Score: 2, Funny

      Nah, if we reduce emissions by 50% it just means we can build twice as many!

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  2. Good Science/Bad Science by dpilot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In true /. fashion, I haven't RTFA yet, but I did hear the story a day or two back, on NPR.

    I also heard a related story, about how North Dakota has come up with an alternative pollution formula to allow them to build more power plants, and burn more coal in them, even though the current formula says they're already over the limit. The scientists at the EPA disagreed, but the politicians at the EPA overruled, and approved the EPA formula.

    Meanwhile, here in Vermont, we have strict limits on the local fish we're supposed to eat. (For instance, one Walleye per person per month, and they advise that children or pregnant women probably shouldn't have even that much.) One component of this is mercury, which is largely from powerplant emissions. The North Dakota report cited their 'pristine sky'. Of course it is, it all blows downwind on the prevailing westerlies. As a kid in school in Ohio, they talked about how tall smokestacks got the junk up into the stratosphere, and were the solution to pollution. Right. It got it into the prevailing westerlies, and made it S.E.P. (Somebody Else's Problem)

    No doubt if we took a similar attitude in Vermont, it would blow out to sea, and we'd hear more about dying fisheries. As it is, we have some of the highest power rates in the country. I'll rant no further.

    --
    The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    1. Re:Good Science/Bad Science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The MSNBC article also mentions that power plant emissions shorten 23,600 lives a year. Is nuclear really thatdangerous (compared to the environmental damage that you discussed and no-shit deaths caused)? Even the worst (tinfoil hat) estimates of Chernobyl can not even remotely compare with a century of fossil emissions. Another neat figure: 38,200 nonfatal heart attacks and 554,000 asthma attacks. Wow! It's really criminal where the anti-nuke lobby has put us.

  3. Proof for the idiots who dont already know it. by Zarks · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This sounds very similar to the stories of the ban of aircraft travel in the few days after 11 sept affecting the climate.

    This just proves how much of a huge differance we are making to the planet. One more reason to take global warming seriously.

    1. Re:Proof for the idiots who dont already know it. by bryanp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This just proves how much of a huge differance we are making to the planet. One more reason to take global warming seriously.

      I am not disagreeing with you, but it also proves just how transient our influence truly is. Shut them down, problem begins abating immediately and to a remarkable degree. Shutting them down completely is not really an option, but it does show that if we improve the cleanliness of our power systems it will have a effect in a very short period of time.

      --
      "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Col. Jeff Cooper
    2. Re:Proof for the idiots who dont already know it. by isorox · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Did the wolly mamouths in the last Ice Age drive Hummers? Did the grapes growing in scotland 600 years ago die off because of horse manure? Climate changes with or without us.

    3. Re:Proof for the idiots who dont already know it. by SuperBanana · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I am not disagreeing with you, but it also proves just how transient our influence truly is. Shut them down, problem begins abating immediately and to a remarkable degree.

      What's kind of scary is how abating the "problem" suddenly probably has unforseen consequences.

      For example, shutting down all air travel means a lot less CO2 generated/O2 used. For a short period of time, oxygen levels rise ever so slightly-which can mean an increase in forest fires and such. Think butterfly-flaps-its-wings kinda deal...

  4. Old news by bigsteve@dstc · · Score: 3, Informative

    It was reported in New Scientist 2 week ago.

  5. Reducing dependence on utilities by jaredmauch · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I've been researching over the past year or so in small bursts, how I can become a better enviro-citizen. At my home, I consume a significant amount of power, peaking over 90KwH/day in some cases. I did some rough math on some of my past 18 months of electricity bills (I have no natural gas, only electric, with the exception of my propane grill) and over that 18mo period, i have utilized somewhere around 48MwH.

    My home lost power as a result of this outage, (I was on vacation), but since then, I've had several outages in the past 2 months, ranging from 4 to 6 hours in length. During the longer, I started up a small (1100W) generator and was able to run some of my equipment. Being a work-at-home employee that depends on my utilities (telephone, electricity) to work properly, this does create some dilemas for me.

    Are there people out there that have reduced your dependence on the utilities using "clean" energy (solar/wind)? What i'm looking at is a hybrid system, where I would take input from: Grid, Solar and Wind. As a result, I would need to store some amount of reserve energy, and prioritize my consumption (eg: Well, Smoke Detectors, Fridge, Stove, Hot Water Heater, etc..). My intention is to not completely disconnect from the grid, or even to sell-back, but to reduce my electrical expenses.

    The result would be that I would not depend so much on the outside entities, and see a cost savings after a few years (aside from possible battery replacement costs). I've found some good worksheets online at NW Power (See the calculation help sidebar) and have been using SolarDyne as my cost reference.

    Now all I need is some nice blackout curtains that kill the light and output electricity for those days I want to sleep in.

    1. Re:Reducing dependence on utilities by michaelredux · · Score: 5, Interesting

      What i'm looking at is a hybrid system, where I would take input from: Grid, Solar and Wind. ...to reduce my electrical expenses.

      If you consider the whole system, the best way to reduce your utility costs is almost certainly not by augmenting the supply side with a sexy solar / wind turbine hybrid, but rather looking seriously at the demand side. That's where the really money can be saved. I have no idea how you are using up to 90 KWHrs/day, but you mentioned an electric water heater, for example. Heating water with electricity is like cutting butter with a chainsaw. A solar water heater could pay for itself in the first year, compared to PV panels that might take ten to twenty years to pay off.

      Why not pick the low-hanging fruit first? It may not be the sexy answer, but if you are serious about lowering your utility costs, the real money savings usually turn out to be on the demand side.

      I would need to store some amount of reserve energy

      Because you have access to the grid, it would be a lot cheaper to use the generator to cover for occasional power outages, and use a standard battery-backed UPS for each PC or other other critical use (cordless phone, etc).

      michael.

  6. Re:What happened to the Scientific Method? by MrNixon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    More like a multi year experiment, with one control. And that control would be the day without the powerplant emissions spewing into the atmosphere.

  7. Re: Now the question is... by CA_Jim · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I would submit that nuclear reactors have less impact on the environment. What is interesting about coal is that there is cleaner coal deposits in the USA that aren't being used. Federal polution laws mandated removing a percentage of certain particulates from the exhaust. Some western coal has so little of these pollutants, that it is impossible to remove the mandated percentage. Thus, coal with more sulfer is used which ultimately causes more pollution. Nuclear power can be made safe. The wastes from reactors can be handled safely and disposed of. The question is can the required safety and automated shutdown be designed and built at an economical cost? Chernobyl was a disaster caused by poor training and a management system that didn't understand what it was doing. Most nuclear plants are much safer, and safety systems work, and have improved since 1986. We tend to forget that all human activity has associated risks. We humans worry about airplane crashes because they hill a hundred people at once, but overlook automobile accidents. People forget that a fire at your local tire dealership or hardware store (pvc piping) can cause major a major evacuation. When was the last time someone protested a natural gas pipeline, but our civilization depends upon such mundane items. Has anyone noticed the Liquified Natural Gas tanks outside Boston? If someone crashed an airplane there, I suspect a rather massive disaster. I'm not suggesting we build nuclear power plants in downtown NYC or San Francisco. It may not be possible to build a reactor safe enough to every economically generate power. At the same time, nuclear power isn't the end of the world either.

  8. Re: Now the question is... by ColaMan · · Score: 4, Informative

    Carbon-14 is not really a hazard.

    The hazard's from naturally-occuring elements such as Uranium in the coal. Uranium is only present in coal in minute amounts... approximately 1 - 3 parts per million, Thorium is about double that. This seems to be fuck-all, until you burn a 1000 million tons of coal a year (total for the US, year 2000) and end up with a thousand tons of uranium and thorium in your atmosphere and the local surrounds of your power plants.

    An interesting article I just found, by searching for "radioactive coal" is here

    --

    You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
    There is a lot of hype here.
  9. Re:Slightly offtopic, but... by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's better to keep it in a nice isolated place than to try and launch it, because it'd create an enormous mess if something happened to the rocket. This may change if we start launching stuff using something other than a large amount of explosives.

    But the fact is, most "nuclear waste" is actually EXTREMELY useful if re-refined, and is being deliberately discarded because the US government is paranoid about having Plutonium in private hands.

  10. Re: Now the question is... by Molina+the+Bofh · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A little radiation is not really a hazard. In fact, some radiation is benefical. You may not be familiar with hormesis.

    I suggest you read this:

    this
    and this
    and this.

    --

    -
    Roses are #FF0000, Violets are #0000FF, find / -name '*base*' |xargs chown -R us && mv zig greatjustice
  11. Re:Power On, Pollution Off? by Secrity · · Score: 2, Informative

    Hydroelectric power can have severe environmental impact. The building of dams can be devestating to the people and animals who lived in the flooded area. Dams and hydroelecric plants kill fish, both from the increased difficulty of migration and from being chewed up in turbines. Dams fail and cause catastraphic floods. Dams cause damage to wetland areas both upstream and downstream of the dam. There are many other bad effects caused by dams depending upon their location. Dams can cause concentration of pcb's, mercury and other toxins, dams cause the retention of silt, there are many ways that dams can cause reduction in water quality.

  12. Re:Power On, Pollution Off? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Dams can cause concentration of pcb's, mercury and other toxins, dams cause the retention of silt, there are many ways that dams can cause reduction in water quality."

    but, if we die off quicker that'll reduce pollution too, right?

  13. Re:It wasn't like that at my school by fluffy666 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Speaking from the UK.. this is true, and it means that the Norwegans got all of our pollution at no extra charge.