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EA, Atari Sue Over Videogame Copying Software
Thanks to the Monterey Herald/AP for its news story regarding EA, Atari, and VU Games' lawsuit against the makers of the Games X Copy backup software. The article explains: "The federal lawsuit [PDF version], filed Tuesday in New York, alleges that Games X Copy software by 321 Studios Inc. of suburban St. Louis violates copyright laws by illegally cracking copy-protection systems used by [PC] game makers." Doug Lowenstein of the ESA trade body, also backing the lawsuits, explains: "I wouldn't get into speculating on dollar losses here. What's at stake here is a rather important legal principle - that products with no purpose other than to circumvent copyright protection are illegal under the DMCA." The piece also notes that "Federal judges in New York and California have barred 321 from marketing... [similar] DVD-cloning software - a victory for movie studios, which contended that such products violate the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act."
13 torrent will become avialible in the following minutes, and their worst fears will come true.
You are confusing me with someone who cares.
I had a game that takes several hours to defeat and spans more than one disc called, ``Lunar 2 Eternal Blue'' for Playstation 2. I was playing through the game very slowly and when I got to the second disc I realized the disc was scratched. Well, it had already passed the 30 day point, so I wrote the company and asked if they would sell me a replacement second disc. The answer, of course, was no. I would have to buy the whole thing over again.
What kind of crap are they pulling. I am legally entitled to backup my games, but they put in measures to prevent me doing so. Would these companies allow me to ask for a copy? No. Could I send in a damaged copy and get another? No.
Okay fine, piracy is a problem for you. You lose tons of money (well I don't actually believe this). Then it is your job to provide me with backups. I have a legal right, and a need as a consumer for legitimate backups.
It is in the best interest of corporations to take away your rights if they can instead sell them to you. The only way our rights stand a chance is if we stand up for them. In fact I will go a step further and say, the only way our rights stand a chance is if we demonstrate common practice what our rights are.
Laws are defined by practice. They are both made and broken by what we do. When we started buying ``copy protected'' materials we set a precedence that copying was not a legitimate activity. Had we wanted to keep our right to copy we would not have bought anything copy protected.
This case is clear. Our right to copy is almost gone. We set the precedence for it by buying things with copy protection and now we have to live with it.
Grr! I want the second disc damnit!
If all of the companies (like EA) who sold CDs (movies, music, video games) had the same sort of support that Disney movies have (disc replacement program), would there still be a justification for this sort of program?
"What's at stake here is a rather important legal principle - that products with no purpose other than to circumvent copyright protection are illegal under the DMCA."
What's at stake here is a rather important legal principle Mr. Lowenstein, it's fair use. A fair use clause must be added to the DMCA, this is a travesty.
Distributed proteome folding @ WorldCommunityGrid.org
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I backup the current game/dvd I'm watching and put the original away. Coincidently all my originals are in excellent condition despite having children and my own clumsy ass around.
This will not stop piracy but it sure as hell makes it a pain in the ass for ME.
This P.I.G. will walk on the water, This P.I.G. will walk on the sea, This P.I.G. will walk whereever he wants.
Unfortunately, they have many suckers who have bought the console and now must buy the games.
Who cares if you're a friend or just a customer?
Have you ever called their technical support? They're not trying to make friends; they're trying to make money.
...protecting the consumer's fair use rights. Too bad there's no money to be made going that route.
They're kids. For the most part, they've not reached the point where they realize that things actually break, deteriorate, or die - they don't have the perspective of multiple years of life yet to reflect back on. A week is a very long time for 10 year old, and a month an eternity.
Sure, kids shouldn't abuse their stuff, and most don't unless they're spoiled. But expecting a kid to keep a CDROM scratch-free is a bit absurd when most grown adults have difficulty with it.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
The problem seems to be that they are using the "throwing ourselves under the wheels of the juggernaut" school of social reform.
I'll agree they're pissing people off, but they don't seem to be doing so in a particularly productive manner.
Three makers of video games sued a Missouri company marketing software that enables consumers to make backup copies of computer games.
Very well then, if I cant make a backup or bypass the copy protection, then they should be legally required to issue refunds for software if that backup protection renders the software defective.
From my own personal experience, I bought KOTOR the first day it came out for PC. For some reason, when doing the cd check when launching, the game would hang about half of the time requiring a hard reset. After a couple weeks I got fed up and downloaded a no CD-crack and havent had a problem since.
My PC met all the requirements on the box, yet when it doesnt work properly because of stupid copy-protection schemes the publisher has no accountability to the consumer, yet *I'm* the one breaking the law (DMCA) when I take steps to make the damn thing usable?
If I bought a toaster and it only toasted half the time, I'd return it to the store and get a new one with an apology. Yet if it's software, why does consumer protection go right out the window?
I'm actually sick of copy protection full-stop. A couple of examples that wind me up (and ensure I make a point of circumventing them):
Copy-controlled music CDs - I travel A LOT, and don't want to have to lug my entire CD collection with me everywhere I go, when I have a hard drive big enough to have it ripped and stored. I legitimitely own each and every one of them, but I have to go through hoops to get this stuff onto my machine. This doesn't target the professional hacker, who'll get past all measures anyway, but targets the consumer, and makes it more likely that they'll just download the sodding thing in the first place.
Secondly - in terms of games, most copy protection can be put into the same category. A typical games pirate will get the software anyway (through the vast array of P2P, FTP, and IRC clients available to all but the most novice of users), but I, as a consumer, am forced to either cart the CDs everywhere if I want to enjoy a game (legally), or get round it all by downloading a "patch" from somewhere like GameCopyWorld (note, I patch legally bought software).
In terms of piracy, I think they are tackling the wrong end of the situation: the problem, rather than the cause.
So you want a legal way? I suppose software companies could just include a copy of the disc for you, they're dirt cheap to make. But I'd rather just backup my games to a nice raid 5 array.
It is to circumvent *COPY* protection, not copyright protection.
These two ideas are not one and the same... And they need to get it through their skulls that this is the case.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I don't want to have to put a CD in the drive to play a game:
(1) CD drives spinning up and down as I'm playing drives me up the wall. They're noisy fuckers. I had a game (Black & White) kill a CD-drive because it accessed the disk constantly for about 3 hours as I was playing. The drive overheated, the plastic holding a cog in place softened - and the mechanism broke. I've never seen a game that would allow me to play 100% from the CD anyway - so what the hell are those game developers doing?
(2) I have a notebook computer. I'm not going to carry a bundle of CDs with me when I'm travelling. Period.
(3) Copy protection methods don't work. People who copy games were never going to buy them in the first place. It only opens the door to organised criminals, a black market - and limits market penetration. If people copy your game they're going to be more likely to buy a sequel.
Anyway, the game I play the most on my notebook is Quake 2 simply because it doesn't require a CD in the drive. Newer games are such a hassle to start:
(1) find game disk
(2) set DVD movie that was in the drive somewhere on the table
(3) put disk in drive
(4) close drive, wait for drive to spin up
(5) double-click game icon
(6) remove wrong disk from drive (disk 2, oops), insert disk 1 instead, click okay
(7) wait for drive to spin up
(8) sit through annoying uncancellable logo / fanfare. snicker that the logo looks better than the game itself
(9) navigate horrible 3D rendered main menu
Ironically, this ritual has made me appreciate online game much more. They have personalised keys, accounts and passwords. No stupid CD in the drive. It's relatively bliss.
1. Merely removing the shrink wrap from the jewel case exposes it to air and airborne chemicals which will erode your disc.
2. Removing the CD, causes pressure to be FOCUSED on the center because thats really the only part of the CD thats being used to hold it in place. This leads to potential cracks and simple wear and tear.
3. USING THE CD, causes its damage. Think about it, whats the RPM (rotation per minute) of your CD player? How long do you typically use that CD at a time? How hot does the CD get when its rotated that quickly and for so long? What about the heat generated from the rest of the system (PC of stereo system?)
4. The area you live in also predict the lifetime of your CD in the longrun. If you use the CD in a closed, temperture controlled, atmosphere controlled laboratory and use the CD maybe once a week, yeah its gonna last about the estimated 10 years. But if you live in a tent, in the middle of the Sahara Desert and the sand just somehow manages to get into your air-sealed CD case and scratch it up, you'll be lucky if your CD managed to make its way into the hands of a black market dealer with 2 tracks still playable.
I have alway felt that all of the copy protection schemes only hurt those suckers (like me) who actually pay for the software. CDs won't last forever, and with no way to backup the games to another media (when CDs go the way of the floppy disk), the money I spend on copy protected software ends up being wasted.
The funny thing is, all of these copy protection schemes never stop the real pirates. You can find a cracked version of any popular piece of software. All that the software companies do when they attack a company that enables users to backup their software is stop a few amateurs from giving the games to their friends. Maybe they even drive a few to try to find another way to get the game for free, and suddenly the user who used to buy software finds out that they can get it all for free.
I have been burned by DRM in the past. I probably have paid about $1000 for games for my Amiga (a long time ago). I occasionally have a bout of nostalgia, and want to play some of my old games (that I paid for) through emulation. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a way to make image files of the copy protected games, and in order to play the games that I paid for, I had to find pirated versions of those games.
Now imagine it is 5 years from now and suddenly Microsoft somehow manages to push through "trusted computing" or some such, and the only way to play your older games is through emulation. Or more likely, one of the CDs for your favorite old game that you break out every once in a while starts having read errors. The game companies just tell you "too bad, sucker" because some people (or maybe even most people) out there might use the software to break a law and give the game to their buddy down the street.
I buy all of my software, or find a free alternative, and I actually have a legitimate use for backup software in order to protect the investment I have made in my software. It really annoys me that the software industry just assumes that all of us users are criminals.
I'd not be surprised if they'd call tools such as cp, dd and friends piracy tools as well - they interact with data in manners that can be used in piracy if used for such purpose. The only worse I've seen outside of trade organizations (and other antitrust law dodgers) is Novell in the 1990's who'd sue BBS's left and right (and brag about it).
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Contrary to FSF beliefs and other moral pundits, I actually think copy protection should be totally legal, protected, and respected. A company should have the right to say "you have rights to ONE instance of this software and rights to use this ONE instance for every $40 you pay". You want it on two computers, you pay for running it on two computers (or you take the CD and bring it to the other CD.)
Here's the problem and why the game companies and other media companies are full of "stuff". Their argument is that the $40 for the game is due to the effort and IP contained on the CD. Totally true, and since that thought pays my salary, I love it. The problem is, if I scratch my CD or DVD, shouldn't I be able to replace it for the price of the media (like $1)? I still have rights to the value I paid $40 to own, right? The crappy media scratched or whatever, so the company should make it POSSIBLE for me to replace that media so I can continue to get my $40 value.
Companies need this policy: "send us your scratched CD and we'll replace it for shipping costs and $1" or "bring the CD to your game store and they will replace it for you for $1." The software company I work for sells software for up to millions of dollars - the last thing we would do if a customer's CD died is tell them "tough luck". Why do game companies think "tough luck" is an ok answer for a scratched $40 CD? And when someone tries to protect that $40 investment with a backup they want to stop it? Maybe they do think the CD itself is the value?
If they had this replacement policy, then this legal argument that these backup tools serve no purpose but piracy would be legit. As it stands right now, if I am paying $40 for "rights" to the contents of the CD, I should be able to back up those contents. Some people could use those for piracy, but until the industry comes up with a way to know the difference, then backup tools DO serve a legitimate purpose.
When I had to buy a replacement copy of an XBox game a year ago I sure wish I had a LEGAL backup DVD...
~Tim
Tim T.
You're basically just renting the game until the CD is damaged beyond usability. At an inflated price nonetheless, to pay for all their extra work, lawsuits, lobbying, and lost sales due to copy protection.
I can still listen to my music, despite some of the original CD's having turned into coasters, frisbees, or messes of shattered plastic. Had my purchases died with the CD's, I'd be out of luck.
I expect the same courtesy with my games. And it's not just the backup issue. "Copy protection" doesn't always work like it should, causing other problems. But since copy protection is now so widespread, my gaming budget has gone to the open source crowd. Commercial game developers don't want my money anymore, so now I just give it away freely to those who've earned it. $70 in the past year to support open source games, of which none of them demanded anything, only $20 to buy two commercial games from the bargain rack, and no piracy ever.
That's like saying you are welcome to take your new car out and ram it into a lightpost because the manufacturer will just fix it for you.
Not really. When you buy software/music/movie whatever, you are buying two things. Firstly you are buying the physical medium which might cost a few dollars to make, burn, wrap and deliver to you. Secondly you are buying a licence to use/listen to/watch whatever it is you bought. (In the case of music, this is the equivalent of 'mechanical royalties'.)
While the physical medium can get wrecked, your licence should remain valid. It should not die just because your CD has. Therefore you should be able to get a replacement CD or DVD for the cost of the physical medium only, i.e. a few bucks.That the copyright holders, under the interpretation of our current copyright laws, require consumers to buy the same things over and over again is disingenuous of them. They know it's wrong, but they like us replacing stuff every ten years.
When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
I keep on hearing complaints from everywhere as to why people are still playing counter-strike.
... go ahead. You won't see a further dime from me.
you want to know why i still play it? i don't have to have that damn CD in my hard drive. The last game I bought was battlefield 1942 and it's sitting here collecting dust. I was sick and tired of it spending all of its time seeking and searching for the CD. It already takes up some 1.4 gigs of space on my HD so it obviously doesn't need to retrieve any gameplay information.
Battlefield 1942 will be the last game I buy from EA. If you want to treat me like a criminal for paying 50$ for a game, then fine
Go ahead game companies. Use macrovisions latest "security" feature that end up pissing off all your paying customers (thousands and millions) so that you can delay crackers for an extra 5 minutes.
If you're going to force me to go through the troubles of using no-cd cracks, etc, why should i even bother paying for your product when i could go ahead and download a fixed (pirated) version of your broken software? It seems like I would have less problems by going the pirated route.
"Tread softly because you tread on my dreams"
Be happy. If making money and living out your Alpha desires with money is all it takes for you to be happy, so be it. If writing free software and being praised for his efforts is all it takes to make the "kid" (do I notice hints of child labour there?) happy, so be it. After all, you're just posting this to build up your ego, to make yourself believe you're better than others. Be happy, you jut delivered the proof that the human is nothing but a sophisticated animal.
Oh, and make sure to tell the women about your deeds, after all, what's being Alpha good for if not getting the best girl to fuck?
You can't return software once it's been opened.
It's hard to vote with your dollar once they already have your money.
I see this a lot from these "software companies." They create schemes that don't protect them, but make them more money. It's ludicrous that they can sue companies for providing a service so that a legit user can make an archive of his legally obtained, license and all, copy. Being a software engineer, I do understand the importance of protecting ones work and getting paid your just reward, but it's coming to the point where the reward isn't enough. They want more. I say we boycott the bastards unless they give us a means to get replacement discs for free and/or cheaper than initial license ($2.95 max). This is reasonable.
That basically boils down to the fact that when you spend your hard earned 50 bucks, all you are getting is a CD / DVD disc (and hopefully a box and a manual), as you have no rights to do anything to the data contained on it.
That's one damn expensive disc.
Companies should be required to separate the content from the media when selling their product. If they will only replace a broken disc for the price of the original product, then clearly the disc itself is worth the entire price, and the content is worthless and doesn't need protection.
Realistically, if we are going to have laws like the DMCA, we really need laws that also protect fair use. The copy protection should either allow for backups, or the company should be required to replace the media. If neither is satisfied, either the company should lose the protection the DMCA gives them.
Hmmm, you're other posts don't seem to be trolls, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Before you whine about getting modded down for "opposing slashdot groupthink", I'd say you were probably modded down for your rediculous and troll-looking arguments.
if you're gonna pirate a game
Who the hell it talking about pirating games? Making a copy of a game is not piracy (it is not copyright infringment either, blah blah blah).
There's being an 3733t haxxor group the takes pride in cracking stuff (whether that's good or bad - I have no comment)
Too late, I'd say your pejorative "3733t haxxor group" is already commenting.
If some dumb-ass company sells me crippled printer cartidges that actively try to prohibit refilling, or a crippled DVD designed to oxidize and self destruct after 24 hours, or a DVD player that refuses to fast forward during the commercials, or a music CD that attempts to autoinstall undesired software on my computer, or a computer game crippled to prevent me from making a perfectly legal and legitimate backup copy, then yeah, I'm gonna "take pride" in reparing that crippled and defective product.
I will melt open that ink cartidge and refill it and reseal it if I damn well please. I will spray that self destructing DVD with hairspray or other sealant to prevent it from oxidizing if I damn well please. I will enter the secret manufacture code or reflash the damn firmware on a DVD player to enable the fast-forward butting if I damn well please. As for the stupid DRM-installing music CD's I disabled autoinsert/autorun ages ago, and if I hadn't, I'll hold down the shift key any time I damn well please. And if I own a crippled game, I'll dig around in my copy with a hex editor any time I damn well please, and if I fix the problem working from the raw executable then I'll be damn proud of myself.
If that makes me an 3733t haxxor, well fine, I'm an 3733t haxxor.
a company who's hypocritical enough to say "games aren't worth paying money for
Here you REALLY sound like a troll. 321 Studios have never said any such thing.
I have a question - do you support the DMCRA? The DMCRA leaves "piracy" just as illegal as before. The DMCRA only decriminalizes NON-infringing activities, it only stops innocent non-infringing people from going to prison.
So, do you support the DMCRA? Or do you advocate imprisoning innocent non-infringing people?
You're assuming everyone who violates the DMCA is some evil pirate. When we attack the DMCA we're not talking about pirates. We're talking about the innocent non-infringing people it says are felons.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Then get out and vote them out! Stop listening to the same old bullshit that you can't make a difference, and vote for people who are not members of the two majority parties.
The thing is, though, he shouldn't have to pay to have it resurfaced. He has a legal right to backup his own games for personal use (I would find and quote the USC, but I'm too lazy ATM) and since the gaming industry now seeks to prevent that, they should have to provide that backup copy.
Colin Dean Go a year without DRM
But I really feel the need to comment here as well. It's my law-given right to make a backup of my games.
I take all my games, and put them into CD-Images. If they are copy protected, I use something like this or CloneCD. I never have to worry about losing my media. It's always right there on a hard disk. I simply mount the disc when I need it.
Many games now a days don't require the disc in the drive (or virtual drive) since you can play online, and they verify with your CD-Key. Making a copy of my CD won't allow someone else to use my CD-Key.
Now, if they SOMEHOW manage to get all the copy protected copiers off the streets (which they will never do anyways) I'll STILL be able to play all my games without the CD's because people will continue to write game cracks.
Going after this company for selling a lawful application is not just wrong, it should be illegal. They do not claim it to allow pirating, and it DOES NOT BREAK copy protection, it copies that too! You can't copy the copy.
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
I think this is a really good point. Take DOOM, for example. Now, that game boasts sales numbering in the millions, which I guess was pretty insane for its time, but for all those millions of people buying DOOM with cash money, my friends nor myself had ever paid a dime. Yet DOOM still remains one of the most popular games ever release for the PC, not to mention several other interesting ports...
Anyway, my point is that even though DOOM raked in enough cash to buy Carmack a shiny new Ferrari, it's "ownership" wasn't based completely on legitimate paying customers. However, the game was HUGE, and it still has a pretty strong loyalist following. Source ports, internet deathmatch clients, you name it. Bottom line is, a greater majority of the 14 year old pirates of today become the 23 year olds of tomorrow with a great deal of disposable income that goes to buying videogames.
The publishers really need to stop having kittens about the fact that people can copy their games. The widespread bootleggers and pirate organizations are the ones they need to go after, not the consumer-base. Strategies like suing a CD-copying software company just displays that the publishers have no faith in the value and merit of their product, and I feel it is essentially an admittance that they are trying to shill the customer with half-assed releases. Why else would anyone get so concerned about a few individuals having the ability to copy a game disc? People spend money on the things they want, and chances are if something is getting stolen or copied it's because that person wasn't interested in buying it anyway. I'm not suggesting that it's justified to take something you weren't going to pay for, but people take things because they can, not because they "don't want to pay for it". Closing off channels people use to take things is only a means of preventing the publisher from being the victim, not a method of increasing sales like the suing companies apparently claim.
--
Is it me, or did it just get fatter in here?
Copy protection doesn't work. It hasn't worked for years now. All software that's remotely valuable is posted on the internet for free weeks before its official release, with cracks that allow you to bypass the copy protection.
Also, all commercial copy protection is capable of being bypassed by a determined fifth-grader. It's not that damn hard to image a disk. It's a little harder to make the game accept the image as valid, but as long as you keep buying commercial solutions (all very recognizable in a hex editor, if a canned solution doesn't already exist.) Quit trying.
I was waiting for somebody to reply with something similar like this.
This is nothing but the pure truth. It all depends of the person's needs. I remember when I lost my cdkey for red alert 2. I emailed westwood and they simply asked for a picture taken of your game your box and your receipt to at least prove that you own it. By doing so, they shipped me a new, closed box, copy of Red Alert 2. I found that it would of been nice if other companies also cared about their customers.
Companies such as EAGames are too traumatized to even care at that group of customers who actually make LEGAL backups. The media which is in your hands does not have a lifespan, so I assume it should last a lifetime. Well why must companies be against the fact that some of us just want to protect our media which we payed for? So we can buy other copies to fill their deep pockets?
Sure the software can break copy protections but technically, anything in life can break any kind of law. For example, I can take my hammer which is used to bash nails and use it as a doorknob fucking device and technically that would be wrong. It's all in the person's mind. EAGames, when they see a software such as XCopy, they think immediatly that everybody using it will make illegal backups so they have to make sure we, the users, have no way to make backups which *can* be redistributed illegally.
Good thing there's no law against the use of AOL Cd's as coasters
I don't know how anyone who has been around for a few years, can possibly believe tools that copy CDs or DVDs, are primarily intended for copyright infringement. It is just plain stupid to not back them up, and that is particularly true with games, which are often handled by children. I wonder if any of the legislators who voted for DMCA, actually own any CDs or DVDs.
Maybe this would be a sneaky way to both bribe and demonstrate the principle to legislators: Find the ones that have kids, and then give them a console game system that is based on CD-like media. Let the legislator spend their own money buying games for their kid, and then let them see what inevitably happens.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Couldn't some brilliant lawyer argue that when a company tries to prevent fair use of their intellectual propertry, it constitutes an estoppel? In other words, if they don't want to play by the rules of the copyright protection game when it comes to fair use, shouldn't they then not expect to be protected by copyright otherwise?
I'm not a lawyer, so I would prolly get creamed in court if I tried to argue thusly...
If you disagree with me on social issues, then it's pretty clear that you are a narrow-minded bigot.
And that's the Big Lie. The programs serve the purpose of allowing the making of legal, usable, backups. What you do with those backups may or may not be legal, but making them is. The DMCA was badly flawed from the beginning, and this type of lawsuit shows it. They can't sue on the basis of copyright violation, so now they sue on the fact that you have to break their anti-backup system to back it up. Damn the assholes that ever passed the DMCA in the first place!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I have an idea the CD, DVD and game companies could all have lifetime guarantees so defects sent in could be replaced for free. And, doing so would bring so much good-will to the industry that most people would not see them as the greedy moneygrubbers they seem to be now, and sales might actully go back up. Of course, the overall way of doing business has to change so people are not forced to buy music they don't want to listen to.