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A Tale In The Desert Gets Second Telling

Posted by simoniker on from the bedtime-storie dept.

Thanks to Stratics for its interview with the creators of indie PC MMO, A Tale In The Desert, discussing the 'rebooting'/upgrading of the game: "ATITD was never intended to be a single persistent world but a chapter like-story in the development of Egypt and the 'creation' of that perfect society. However, Tale 1 was a large undertaking and lasted longer than originally intended. ATITD2 will have a 6-month life-span before ATITD3 begins the cycle anew." Among topics discussed are better graphics ("We've had a new scaling graphics engine so, if you're using a newer card it will take advantage of fragment shaders for terrain, etc.") and dealing with griefing ("The community has tools to deal with griefers, including inventing laws to permanently exile those people from Egypt.")

25 comments

  1. I like ATITD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I was one of the original ATITD players, but I just couldn't take the clicking. My work life is centered around typing and clicking and I just didn't have what it took to conduct two million clicks every night to play this game and just barely keep up. Not to mention, all the griefers leaving bonfires over all of your property so you couldn't expand your domain, raise bees or dig for minerals and gems got to me.

    1. Re:I like ATITD. by TheSacrificialFly · · Score: 4, Informative

      Totally, it felt like everquest's crafting system except that was the whole game. (arrgh, metal bits, no more!)

      One thing that is really cool is the legal system, the devs have spent a considerable amount of time on this and I really think it shows in the community they've developed.

      Some of the larger mmorpg's should look long and hard at the way these guys support and maintain an almost "self regulating" group of gamers.

    2. Re:I like ATITD. by Drawkcab · · Score: 2, Informative

      As someone who stuck around for quite a while, I have to agree and disagree with you. It wasn't anywhere near as mindless or repetitive as everquest's crafting. Almost every task that you have to do a lot of can be automated at higher levels of technology. If you didn't have access to those technologies or stick around for long, you might have an exaggerated impression of what the crafting system is like. However, the legal system pretty much broke down after the first 6 or 8 months. At first it was incredible, no question about it. But as their developer resources stretched thin, new laws were one of the first things to go. Now they're implementing about 2 laws a week, but there is no limit on how many laws may be submitted, which means there is a backlog of laws that have been rotting for several months without even being voted on. That kills the legal system, since any petition written may never be voted on much less implemented. I do agree with your third point that the larger mmorpgs could learn quite a bit from this game. The broken legal system might not be the best example though, at least not without some modifications to make sure they can actually handle following through with whatever system they implement. The concept is great and really important, its just inherently labor intensive unless they can find a way to make implementing it easier on the developers.

    3. Re:I like ATITD. by Drawkcab · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There is a negligible amount of actual griefing that occurs in ATITD. Really. What I'm inferring happened is that you were a relatively new player who ran afoul of the unwritten social conventions. There is a huge amount of land in atitd. In some ways too much land for the few thousand actual players. And resources are spread all over the huge map, meaning that if you look for a while, you can find a place to build your camp and acquire resources without any interference. The problem is that new players start near welcome banners, and usually start building without looking around very long or hard for a good spot. You can't blame them for that, of course, but it does lead to conflicts with more established players who have already built in the area. When new players start building very close to them it causes them problems (the same problems you see from bonfires), so a small minority might respond undiplomatically to what they perceive as an infringement. Also you may build certain kinds of buildings in places that can cause pollution problems for others or collapse their mines. Once you learn the unwritten courtesies of how to coexist with people, nobody would have any reason to grief you. And even if you don't know the rules, most people would try to talk to you first rather than grief you. If you're polite in response, you'll find many people are very helpful to newbies, and you may end up with more in return than you bargained for.

    4. Re:I like ATITD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I'm inferring happened is that you were a relatively new player who ran afoul of the unwritten social conventions.

      Um, no. I started playing in the first week of the first telling and was one of the first people to build in my area of the 7 Lakes region. You couldn't even see more than two other steads by line of site from where I was.

      But as the game progressed, people started griefing all over the place - sometimes they never seemed to return for their claim. I just know that I woke up one morning and found my happy little thriving neighborhood was overrun with dozens and dozens and dozens of bonfires.

      I had fun with the game, but I didn't feel like dealing with some jerky player spamming our area and causing a lot of trouble. I know that's part of the game, but if I want to deal with assholes, I have 9 paid hours a day to do that.

    5. Re:I like ATITD. by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      If someone quits because the game got too repetitive, saying that it's just the first X hours doesn't help a lot. Sure, some people might be willing to put up with a boring game until it becomes fun, but most just grab another one that doesn't make them waste X hours before having fun.

      I've been told "oh, you were too low-level" before. Worst excuse ever. I already worked to get the money together for buying the game, now I should work again to make the game fun?

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    6. Re:I like ATITD. by jkerman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      not too soon after the start of live, we passed a bunch of laws about those damn bonfires. the biggest one was the "Departed persons act" which allowed people to tear things down after their account expired/quit or their trial ran out.

      There is another law that says something to the effect of "any bonfire made with less than 10 wood can be torn down by anyone after an hour". so if you want to grief, its going to take some effort.

      boom. no more bonfires. Intended or not, "the bonfire problem" was actually pretty fun to work out via the legal system. it was a really interesting game dynamic. the developers gave us the tools to fix it. so we did.

      As a matter of fact, i could tell you played a long time ago before you even posted it. there havent been issues with bonfires in months and months.

    7. Re:I like ATITD. by Hirokache · · Score: 2, Informative

      A few notes on this: The reply was not that the player was too low level, but that the world itself was too low level. The technology level in the game changes, and the focus of what you do on an every day basis in game changes with it. While the beginning of ATITD didn't appeal to the first poster here, the middle or end might very well have done so (and the same may be true in the next Telling). There were also some very drastic interface changes that eliminated a lot of the clicking that was such a problem for everyone.

    8. Re:I like ATITD. by TheSacrificialFly · · Score: 1

      Hmm, interesting. After reading some of your other comments I think I might pick it up again for another look. I particularly like the fact that once someone or a group of people discover a tech, it's available for everyone. That's the kind of community spirit I was after when I originally tried atitd out - after getting kind of jaded with the "me first" attitude of basically every online game I've played I was looking for something different.

      As far as the backlogged legal system, it sounds to me like this is a simple resource problem. With only a couple of devs I can understand how a delay like that can happen. Throw a couple of full time law implementers at the problem and I'm sure this could be sorted - surely it would cut down on the need for legions of support staff the larger mmo games have.

    9. Re:I like ATITD. by ggwood · · Score: 1

      TheSacrificialFly wrote:
      Totally, it felt like everquest's crafting system except that was the whole game. (arrgh, metal bits, no more!)

      I just wanted to add that Everquest has revised the tradeskill (craft) interface to give you two options: the old way, and the new one where you learn new recipies by trying things and then they are added to a list. Once on your list, you can click once to automatically place all the items (from your inventory) into the tradeskill container and then one button to attempt the combine. This system limits you to one attempt per second by a timer.

      This was a huge step forward for the game, I feel. I did tradeskills extensively the old way, and after just a few tens of combines, (each of which could require ten+ clicks to set up) I was done for that session. Sometimes, I would be applying ice to my hands later and worrying a bit about repetitive stress syndrome.

      In everquest II they are talking about having some kind of in-game arcade game you play to craft superior things. Imagine tetris: you clear a certain number of rows, or you fail on that item. You clear twice that many rows, and you actually create a better item. Thus, you and your character are actually both "improving" at a skill. I'm not really sure about this system - obviously I've not actually seen it - but I just mention it here as an idea being talked about.

      I am not familiar with other MMORPG's tradeskill systems, but I am curious.
      ________________________________________ _______

      --
      a war on terrorism? How can we end a war on a method?
    10. Re:I like ATITD. by Dogers · · Score: 1
      there is a backlog of laws that have been rotting for several months without even being voted on

      Sounds realistic to me!
      --
      I am a viral sig. Please copy me and help me spread. Thank you.
  2. doesn't this make.. by gl4ss · · Score: 2, Insightful

    doesn't this make it worthwhile for hardcore gamers to only get on the train at the start of the 6 month perioid, what's the point on starting to play mmo just few weeks before recycle?

    --
    world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    1. Re:doesn't this make.. by jkerman · · Score: 5, Informative

      of course not! First of all, you learn how the game works, so you can get a full start on tale n+1.

      Also, the game is a VERY social game. and while some people will change their characters, most probably wont. The game resets, not the people :)

      Also, the game has a very unique technology system. each region has "universities" that offer skills. they require massive amounts of resources, but once the skill is unlocked. it is free for all citizens to learn. When i started at the beginning of this tale, all i could do is make bonfires, and bricks. If you started today (and with a no-credit-card required free trial, you really should) you could just do a quick run to the universities and pick up about 100 some skills. and in a few days when your accustomed, you can get started on researching the most current technology.

      Ill never forget the weekend when me and about 6 other people pulled an all nighter to unlock that gearbox automation tech in our region. but this game has given me countless fun times like that. theres always more around the corner.

      As for having a meaningful role in the game... If you have passed as little as *one* of the 49 tests available, you can have a meaningful role in the "endgame". But even if you cant be the one who actually gets to build the monument, you could be the one who helps them cut the gems they need. or helps them organize groups of people to dig for stones. (trust me... its more fun than it sounds)

      All things considered, there really is no bad time to join up.

    2. Re:doesn't this make.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wish I had some mod points -- this is the first compelling explanation I've heard as to what makes ATITD interesting to play. They should snag you to write copy for their website. :)

    3. Re:doesn't this make.. by Surp · · Score: 1

      Well, if a game isn't fun while you play it, what's the point at all? Seems MMORPG players only put hours in for achievement these days, not just for fun.

    4. Re:doesn't this make.. by Seumas · · Score: 1

      ATITD isn't about playing against other players. You're all - the entire society - working toward a common goal of progression and social, scientific, technological and spiritual evolution. You can join weeks into the game and be "caught up".

    5. Re:doesn't this make.. by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      ah well, that explains it.

      unfortunately (almost)all mmorpg's I've tried have ultimately been about "who kills the most rats". :\.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    6. Re:doesn't this make.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, there is no killing or fighting in ATITD. In fact, there aren't even any weapons.

    7. Re:doesn't this make.. by Drawkcab · · Score: 1

      Not entirely true. There are fine steel axes, sledgehammers, scythes, iron blades, and lead mallets. They just aren't used as weapons. :p

    8. Re:doesn't this make.. by richmaine · · Score: 1

      Well, except for on April 1, but they only lasted the one day (and couldn't be used on other players). Great April fools joke that was, and a lot of work.
      (RodneyRedhot in game).

  3. Sigh by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 1, Insightful

    the development of Egypt and the 'creation' of that perfect society

    Displaying one's ignorance of history is a social faux pas, like farting in church. At the very least, one should act embarassed and say, "Excuse me."

    --

    I write in my journal
    1. Re:Sigh by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      sure it wasn't *perfect*, it wasn't particularly bad either though. there were very good times in their history if you look at the big picture of history of whole mankind, it could be argued easily that at that time if you were 'in' the society(egyptian) it was the best place on earth to be during those times and if you take a look at some timelines you can see that their culture spans(with the state falling apart sometimes) over several thousands of years. ordinary people knew their place and weren't uncertain of what was going to happen to them, in life or death(a plus or a minus depending on view).

      though, what 'perfect' is can be very different to the poster than it is you. probably some think that athens was better(it's easy to have democracy when you get slaves to do the work, after all, slaves weren't people as such) or sparta(who needs the weak) or any other extreme appearance of some political system. hell, some consider the nazi system to have been perfect(I don't, it was flawed).

      if you say somebodys history knoweledge or opinions are flawed it would be at least nice if you backed it up with something.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    2. Re:Sigh by jkerman · · Score: 5, Informative

      The game is set in egypt, and has a fictional background story about how pharaoh thinks egypt is a perfect society, but a mysterious stranger mocks him and challenges society to prove him wrong.

      had you read the story, you might have picked up that its not trying to be historicly accurate. its just a setting for a roleplaying game. but hey, this is slashdot. nobody expects you to read the story :)

  4. Six month limit by oskillator · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I have to say that I appreciate very much that this game has an ending. There are so many hours in the day, and while it's one thing to get heavily into an RPG for a week, it's quite another to get heavily into an RPG for the rest of my life.

    This goes for all serial media. I loved "Watchmen," for instance, but I don't read series comic books simply because they're a constant time-sink, and I've already got enough of those in my life.

  5. In-game games by phlack · · Score: 1
    they are talking about having some kind of in-game arcade game you play to craft superior things

    I don't know about other games, but if you've ever played Questron (old game somewhat similar to Ultima 1) there was an in-game arcade game that allowed you to raise your character's dexterity. You had to shoot discs as they flew across the screen (you had a rotating gun at the bottom and shot upward). Simple game, but the more you were able to shoot, the higher your dexterity was. Switching to a paddle (Apple II game), I was able to get my dexterity up so high, that I could rob a town blind and NEVER get hit by a town guard! Made the game rather easy at that point.

    But I think it worked well, and if they can implement the same type of idea in a MMORPG, it could be a good thing, if done right. (ie to make a potion, one has to physically mix some reagents & liquids on-screen...the better you do it, the more powerful the potion is) Would help with the macroing problem in some games (like Ultima Online).