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Networking in the Danger Zone?
Croaker-bg asks: "I currently am an Information Security/ Network Engineer for a large government contract firm and have recently seen several solicitations come across email regarding gigs in the Middle East and surrounding regions, including both Iraq and Afghanistan. Understanding that the pay might be good for being willing to face the hazards, I continue to have my curiosity perked by these short-term jaunts. Lately however, the news of fellow contractors being abducted has put a new spin on the hazards of working abroad in these areas. Has anyone survived such a trip and lived to tell the tale with a fat wallet? If so, would you consider doing it again or is it just to dangerous?"
you cant spend money when your dead.
Seriously. Mods - hear me out before hitting "troll." Stand on the street and sell weed. You would make a lot of money. Yes, it's true that if things go badly you end up in jail. But if things go badly in Iraq, you end up dead. Death is permanent. With jail, you get out after a year or two, and you have a chance to put your life back together.
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You have to ask yourself the (deliberatley skewed left by me) question "Is the lure of money so great on me that I would leave my country to work somewhere where they are kidnapping people exactly like me?
This isn't an opportunity. You aren't "helping shape a newborn government" or whatever. Even if you're Christian, Iraq is the oldest place on earth. If you need the money, do it. Otherwise, don't.
--
The last digit of pi is four.
Might be of use to you on your trip.
Many of us in the military, especially the one's seperating from the military, are getting these same offers. Its definitely tempting to some of these guys but all of them passed on it. Who wants to go do their same job that they were doing in the military and not have at least some sort of self protection, ie. M16, M9 pistol, squad of Marines behind you......
I had the chance to work in Johannesburg. At the time it was "the most dangerous city in the world outside of a war zone." I was there for 4 months, and it was one of the best experiences of my life. While there, my co-worker was on a contract on New York. This was around 9-11... He saw the towers fall in person. You can die anyplace. Be careful, take precautions, be aware, and you have a better chance. Do the math... How many people have been killed in New York in the last 6 months? The risks may be higher in the mid-east, but how much higher? Especially with you watching everything around you?
see this gallery of a contractor's 1year stint in afghanistan.
http://www.darchiver.com/gallery/Vince
well, some personal pics in there as well. skip those.
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I know of several former coworkers who are there right now. You can chech out two of their websites here and here. I have been approached by these companies as well, and my expedited passport ($188.00) should be here next week. $120K/yr is too enticing for me to pass this up. Additionally, if you're doing IT work and are worried about danger, pick Kuwait as it is the safest environment. I'm married with two kids, and this certainly seems like a good option for mom to finally have a house. Keep in mind that the captured contractors mostly put themselves in danger by being in open public areas... IT guys are very well protected, probably because they are required to have an active secret clearance.
I recently got back from Kosovo (though I was there with the Army, not a contractor unfortunately). It's safe enough to hang out in town during the days, and the pay is still pretty good. It was rumored that some Brown & Root employees were making $80k for sitting in a watch tower. I'm sure IT guys would bank better than that.
As far as the Middle East, I think you could remain pretty safe if you just kept to yourself and didn't do too much playing around outside of the base.
On a related note, I would like to see a comparison of the daily murder rate in Iraq compared to the daily murder rate for an inner-city such as, oh, let's say Detroit. Granted, beheading is a bit worse than a drive-by, but it's not like it's an every-day thing.
For Paul Johnson the front lines stretched across the border into Saudia Arabia. Look for them to keep spreading.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Huh? And what precisely do the al-Quaeda fanatics have to do with Iraq?
Unless all of our western intelligence agencies have failed miserably, al-Quaeda people only began moving in Iraq as a direct result of Gulf War 2...
Yes, the Middle East is a dangerous place right now. (Particularly for Westerners.) However, people do have a tendency of exaggerating the danger because of the context.
For example: just a few years ago, seven people were gunned down at a computer engineering firm in Massachusetts. But if I were offered a job in Massachusetts, I doubt that questions of personal safety would even enter my mind.
Of course I'm not saying the Middle East is safer than Massachusetts (though if it keeps you from eating at McDonald's too often, it may well be)! But don't let high profile shock stories bias your judgement too much.
Easy. The al-Anbar province, and what you in America know as the "Sunni Triangle". This is an area where you're likely to be kidnapped based on the color of your skin, and the dress you wear. (There's also a danger of kidnapping just because you look rich--nothing political, just for money.) Generally, the Turkomen and Kurdish areas are safe, as are places controlled by Falah al-Naqib. (Perhaps you recognize the name--he's the Interior minister.)
Was your question about the "front lines" serious, or some sort of display of ignorance?
Whether or not he was truly a civilian, of course, remains to be seen. But given that he voluntarily surrendered in order to ``clear things up''? I give him the benefit of the doubt. At least enough to refrain from beating him to death.
This American Life (on NPR) ran a pretty good documentary on this subject a few weeks back. It's available in Realaudio format on the web. It's an hour long though. The archive page is Here. Or go to the audio directly.
Homer no function beer well without.
...but if you get abducted and beheaded, don't expect me to shed a tear. I have little sympathy for the carpet-baggers currently over around Iraq's moribund corpse.
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
"Where's outsourcing when you need it???"
It's not all that bad, its a lot of territory, the media focuses on the glaring horror stories. I 've been on 2 tours as a contractor in direct support of ground forces, and have been just about everywhere in the theater, Iraq and Afghanistan. My first tour was during the initial ground war, and I travelled with the troops all the way to Tikrit, 2nd tour I was based out of kuwait and travelled as required, to Falluga, Baghdad, and Afghanistan. I would definately recommend the Kuwait tour. Good network and I was able to do most work over the net.
"What's your likelihood of being abducted by terrorists in Saudi Arabia? Not very high. Even if you are there."
/. would something like that be mod'ed "Insightful".
Well, it's kind of hard to be kidnapped by terrorists in Saudi Arabia if you're NOT there.
But if you do go there AND you look like an American, then the chances go right up.
"Certainly not relative to any other of a number of ways you could die."
Stepped on by an elephant while having sex in Tacoma. Hmmm, statistically, that has NEVER HAPPENED.
Do you know what "relative" means?
"You can lock yourself up in your house if you want to. It just depends on how you want to live."
False dichotomy there.
Either
Lock yourself in your house
or
Go someplace where lots of people who don't like you want to kill you and can recognize you easily.
Yeah. Whatever.
"If you are really concerned about your life being out of control and in the hands of terrorists, just get fitted with one of those poison teeth. Then at least you can save yourself from suffering while you die."
So, the terrorists can kill me or I can kill myself before the terrorists kill me.
Only on
How about he get a job at a small insurance company and die from a heart attack 60 years from now brought on by too many donuts for breakfast for 60 years?
I am not a computer professional; I do international development work and so I travel a fair bit. I was in Afghanistan and Pakistan last summer and Iraq last November and December.
I found Afghanistan pretty likeable, but it would be a hard place to live for an extended period. Outside of Kabul it gets very primitive very quickly. Additionally, the security situation outside of Kabul is very much worse than it is inside.
I found Iraqis (and most people, really) to be pretty nice, hospitable people, but the situation there is just all kinds of bad. The security situation is part of it, and this keeps you indoors and in very close quarters a lot of the time, and this gets old quick. And regardless of how you feel about the current administration or the war, being an American in Iraq is a mighty uncomfortable thing to be in 2004.
I presume the people paying big money for these services are military or military contractors. In both Afghanistan and Iraq, these guys live in shipping containers, often in the middle of nowhere. In the Green Zone, shipping containers are stacked everywhere and people are shoved into any space that will fit them. Many people --civilian contractors -- share their bunks in shifts.
If you are really considering this just for the money, I would think very carefully about what you are doing. How much is money really worth? Because especially in Iraq, you will be exposing yourself to physical danger and psychic stress that is considerable.
And if you are going for a travel experience, I can support that, but I would suggest that in a military environment you are unlikely to get much of a cultural experience. There are other, better ways to do this.
If you really believe in what you would be doing (as I did), then go, but do keep an open mind and remain observant and inquisitive; regardless of your position now, you will find things are quite different from how you thought they were.
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Give me liberty or give me something of equal or lesser value from your glossy 32-page catalog.
Afghanistan: The Kabul/Bagram area are relatively safe. Occasional bombings and shootings sound worse in the media than is perceived locally. Locals don't see you as a target. Resist the temptation to see the rest of the country, and you'll be fine. Heroin use among foreign rear echelon motherfuckers is 'way up... do avoid that.
Kuwait: basically safe, but events in Iraq and SA will continue increase tensions. Do as you would in most poor nations (which Kuwait is not) and try not to stand out. Do a year or two and call it a day.
Bahrain: more of a disconnect between rulers and ruled than Kuwait. Looks good compared to SA, Iraq, Afghan.
Qatar & UAE: Looks good. Act conservatively, as has been the case in the Gulf all along. If SA goes down the shitter, there will be spill over, but at least you'll have plenty of warning.
Saudi: things are going to get worse before they get better. Do not take your family, as you'll be forced to live in a foreign compound. If at all posible, live in well off but Arab-heavy apartment complexes or developments. Make a habit of varying your routine outside of the office. Have in mind an alternate exit from said office.
Iraq: If you're lucky enough to work AND live strictly within the occupation authority's green zone in downtown Baghdad, knock yourself out. Keep in mind that that zone will be shrinking considerably over the next 12 months into a still huge US Embassy, so make sure you don't get stuck outside with a housing allowance and a pat on the back. For the less risk adverse, 24x7 at one of the bigger military bases is a consideration. Next down the list is Metro Basra as long as the Badr (as opposed to Sadr) militia and it's political front stay happy. Ditto with the Kurdish areas, which aren't much worse than eastern Turkey. Pass on Mosul, Kirkuk, and the whole rest of the country. If you're going to be driving anywhere, for God's sake opt for small, cheap sedans. Big sedans are begging to be car jacked, and SUVs broadcast "USA" like a HUMMV.
Iran: I throw this in for contrast. If a US citizen/resident alien, your biggest problem will be explaining yourself to Uncle Sam. Consult with an attorney to make darn sure you aren't in conflict with US economic restrictions on trade with Iran before you go. Don't hit on local women, bad mouth Islam or the government, or take pictures of any thing that even resembles a government or military installation. In fact, this is more of a normal overseas posting, so it's not nearly as lucrative. There are some up to date tourist guide books on the country, and good poop from the British and Australian Embassy web sites.
Luke, help me take this mask off
I lived in Bagh-town for 3 months this year on Camp Victory. It was awesome. But make no mistake, it is dangerous: I was attacked at least once a day by rocket fire, mortar fire, or gunfire. Everyday is a day on the edge. However, in exchange for the risk, you come back with a WAD of cash (I made $4000/m just for being a go-fer), a sense of survival (nothing really shakes my tree anymore.. except slamming doors and unexpected sounds.. what I meant was people don't scare me anymore), and a wonderful sense of culture. The arabs are WONDERFUL people. Very unselfish and friendly (except the ones that one to kill us). I made many friends, and now have a good understanding of arabic. If you want to talk to me, reply to this message. I would be happy to discuss it with you. -Dust
Here's one place you can look, the FEDZ official job site, USAJOBS (OPM = US Office of Personnel Management). You can input a resume, search for jobs, &/or set up search agents. One program relating to this topic is SOFIA (Support Our Friends in Iraq and Afghanistan.)
Argentina and Chile are pretty benign. It's a little nastier in the Central american area, Colombia probably being the worst, with Guatemala and Nicaragua behind.
.38 revolver sitting outside my front door and walking me across the street to the schoolbus. The general next door to us had *two* guards with machine guns.
When I was younger (77-82) I lived in Panama, then Colombia. Panama had the Canal Zone back then and that was completely safe. Bogota on the other hand was not. Within one month of living there, our house was burglarized (while we were out for lunch) and had thousands of dollars of jewelry, cameras, and electronics taken. Oh, and a loaded 9mm.
After that the embassy posted a 24hr armed guard on my doorstep. For every day of the next two years I had some guy in a uniform with a
About 6 months later (and a few hundred miles away) we had our van broken into and more stuff taken including *another* pistol.
Most of the vehicles that the Embassy used or loaned out there had bullet-proof inserts behind the windows. Most of the moderate to high ranked Colombian officials had similar vehicles as well.
I'd still like to go back and visit again someday, but would feel rather leery staying more than say a week or so. Iraq may be worse for more personal attacks, but Central America is still pretty high risk in several of the countries. But there are many that are probably fairly safe.. I just haven't kept track of which lately. For the latest, you should check out the travel warnings put out by the US Department of State...
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