Next-Gen Xbox To Lack Backwards Compatibility?

An anonymous reader writes "Biz news site Gamesindustry.biz is reporting that Microsoft's Xbox 2 won't be backward compatible with games for the current Xbox, and quoting 'sources close to Microsoft's senior Xbox executives' explaining some of the thinking behind the decision. All very cloak and dagger, although I guess whoever told them would probably be in line for a firing if they found out... So, is Microsoft right or wrong on this one? Have any Slashdot readers ever actually used the backwards compatibility on their PlayStation 2?"

Comments

one of the reasons they prospered w/the PC?

[garcia]

According to a source close to the project, internal Microsoft figures suggest that only 10 per cent of PlayStation 2 purchasers were interested in the console's ability to play titles developed for the original PlayStation.

This is also coming from the company that did consumer research that found their controller was superior. I am apparently one of the 10% of people that thought that the PS2's backwards compatibility was important, apparently one of the small minority of people that believed the XBox controller to be clunky and uncomfortable (in fact caused serious cramping after short use), and that small group that seriously believes that part of the reason that MS has dominated the market place on the PC side was for backward compatibility with their products.

MS is changing the architecture, the design, and the graphics chip (ATI, no HD, and non-Intel) which will obviously force emulation (which, according to the article, was being planned) but I would think it would be far more worth it just for a base of titles. I believe the PS2 did *so* well because of the large base of titles that came from the PS1 and I can't imagine that the XB2 will be debuting with any base if they don't have backwards compatibility.

Re:one of the reasons they prospered w/the PC?

[gabebear]

reminds me of Microsoft's Get the Facts crap. I actually ordered their free Windows/Linux evaluation kit. Funniest thing I've ever seen, and it cost them $3.82 just to ship the crap to me, not to mention the cost of materials. I'm now using the folder they gave me for my Comp-Sci classes.

I imagine they backed themselves into a hole by going with an Nvidia chipset. They don't own licences to emulate all of Nvidia's shader stuff on ATI hardware, so they do a "study" showing how it doesn't matter. Sony on the other had has licenced (or cross-licenced) pretty much everything in the PS2.

Re:one of the reasons they prospered w/the PC?

[gabec]

One point to think of, regarding "How many of you Slashdotters have used the backwards compatibility on Playstation 2's" is that, well, actually making use of PS2's backwards compatibility is most likely quite rare, but when it was a *new* console it meant that the console immediately had 100x the games of any competitor.

Backward compatibility only helps you get people when the console is new. I remember the arguments when XBox first came out: "Well, I could get an XBox but it has *no* games! What am I going to do, play Halo for the next two years waiting for real games?"

Of course, it turns out that most of my friends *do* solely play Halo... :P

For XBox Next it's a matter of the lesser of two evils: do we cut out the possibility for hacks (Linux) or do we cut out our feet off *again* by having a virtually non-existant game library? Of course, with the massive changes to the hardware that are coming backwards compatibility would have an extremely high price anyway.

Have there been any consoles other than PS2 that offered backwards compatibility?

Re:one of the reasons they prospered w/the PC?

[computechnica]

The Gameboy Advance has backward compatibility with all old Gameboy and Gameboy Color cartridges. It helped me transition from the old to the new. I sold my old Playstation and Gameboy color for store credit at Game-Exchange. Then went and bought a new PS2 and GBA and could still use my old games. Nintendo thinks it is important, the Gameboy DS will have two cartridge slots for compatibility all the way back to 1988 version of Tetris(which helped launch the Gameboy)

Maybe Micro$oft is trying to prevent a similar upgrade chain?

Re:one of the reasons they prospered w/the PC?

[Aqua OS X]

"Of course, it turns out that most of my friends *do* solely play Halo... :P" :) hehe, ya I own an Xbox and a ton of games.... but I only play Halo. Although the other games I own are quite fun, console Halo is video crack.

I know at least 4 other people in a similar situation ;).

Re:one of the reasons they prospered w/the PC?

[TechniMyoko]

I actually find the cubes the worst of the controllers. The dpad is too small the lip at the top of the shoulder buttons prevent holding both the shoulder and Z at the same time. there shouldve been a Z equivalent on the left side the bean arrangement is stupid, if you havent gotten used to the 4 circular buttons by now go back to the nes. you cant push B and X at the same time the c stick is just bad. it shouldve been the same kind of stick as the other one. my small fingers get pinched in the middle a lot the start button is too far from either side for small hands the only things they got right were the one analog stick (not the c stick), and the b button

Re:one of the reasons they prospered w/the PC?

[Creepy]

I had thought this might be one of the reasons MS bought VirtualPC - at least, I did when I heard that the CPU they were going to use was PowerPC. Now I'm not so sure - emulating/overriding the nVidia graphics subsystem may not be possible. I was thinking they'd port the API layer and only emulate instructions as necessary (like the WINE on PPC proposed - probably much easier to do with the original source code).

The main reason to switch to the PowerPC was the "computer on a chip" tech that makes building them MUCH cheaper. Rumor has it that Sony and Microsoft may even use the same multi-core chip (and Nintendo a similar one). Not that it matters much - the GPU(s) is going to matter more for polygon count.

You gotta be fucking shittin me....

[greymond]

"Have any Slashdot readers ever actually used the backwards compatibility on their PlayStation 2?"

Um yeah who the hell doesn't?! I play all my PS1 games on my PS2 and look forward to playing my PS2-PS1 games on my PS3 when it comes out. As much as i'd hate to see the Xbox go the Nintendo route and fuck over their consumer base I think MS should....

The reason is the Xbox is great, but it's so freeking easy to pirate the games on it, and I understand if they want to make it more secure/proprietary. As it is now, you put your mod chip in and a larger drive, flash the bios and install the new dashboard and from then on any game you rent you simply hit "copy to hard drive" and its yours. You NEVER buy games...EVER...

With the PS2 yeah you can mod it to play burned copies, but then you got to fuck with your burner software and be picky about your cd media. Also the mod chip for the PS2 is a solder only and not a "stick and screw" chip like some of the the xbox ones.

Major architectural differences?

[MisterP]

I'm sure I'm oversimplifying things, but I don't see how it would be possible to emulate a P3 700 class CPU on a 1.xGHz processor of a completely different archecture. They don't even share endianess (is that a word?)

When IBM and ATI announced they be supplying the parts I thought right away there would be no backwards compatibility.

Maybe they'll sneak an XBox1-on-a-chip in there?

I never had a PS 1... value gamers

[mekkab]

BUT I have PS1 games for my PS2. So suck on that.

For gamers who need to be up to the minute; backwards compatibility is not important.

But for the value gamer; the ones who wait until PS2 games are re-released as "Classics" with the red boarder and sell for $20 (instead of $50)- these are the people who will pick up older games and play them on their modern system.

Cheap skates of the world, Unite!

Re:Used it?

[NanoGator]

"I think I've played more PS1 games on my PS2 than normal PS2 games."

Think that little tidbit of info will affect whether or not you buy a PS3?

If the XBOX weren't so big, I wouldn't care.

[unfortunateson]

My sons typically keep four consoles plugged into the set in the family room at any given time. This week, it's XBOX, SNES, NES, Genesis. Previously, the PlayStation took the place of the Genesis. When they get bored, it'll change again. All but the XBOX daisy-chain on the RF input to the tube.

Most of those consoles aren't very big (the NES is a 2nd-generation unit with the sloping top surface). I wouldn't want to put another XBOX-sized thing in that cabinet. Heck, I can get mini-ATX lan-party boxen smaller than that.

On the other hand, without a hard drive, the XENON/XBOX2 could be significantly smaller and cheaper than the next Sony box, which is designed to be a whole home entertainment box.

My guess? Microsoft is bowing to the pressure of the media companies to not build a media box that could be a PVR, hence no drive. Why they switched to ATI and PowerPC, I haven't a clue. Hmm.. perhaps we'll see Mac-based emulators of the XENON?

Re:Used it?

[twilightzero]

Same here. I never owned a PS1 at all but that was a HUGE part of my deicison to get a PS2. I wanted some games from the PS2 *coughfinalfantasyXcough* but I loved the fact that I could go back and play all these PS1 games that I missed. Several of my friends have huge PS1 libraries so it was heaven for me to go through and experience all this stuff I previously wished I could play.

Re:Used it?

[zariok]

I have a 1st generation PS2 (ie got it the DAY it came out)... it barely plays ANY PS1 games.

I noticed when purchasing the DVD Remote, it "upgraded" the DVD software by placing a new version on the memory card, but have yet to find something what "updates" the PS1 emulator/driver.

I started picking up some oldie, but goodie, games that I can't even play due to not owning a PS1 anymore. Those include the afore mentioned Castlevania, various Mega Mans and MK Trilogy.

Any thoughts?

Trade-in, Trade-up

[DeadBugs]

A lot of people either traded in or sold their PS1 console to buy a shiny new PS2 console.

Not only did they get money back (or at least a discount) towards a new console, they already had a library of games to play while getting in on some early new console action.

This may not affect sales of the XboX2 in the long run. But a lot of gamers (including me) will wait for the 2nd or 3rd price drop to get a new XboX2. However, by then they may have invested too much in a PS3 and just skip MS.

Re:More speculation

[*weasel]

The speculation is that they're going for several gig of flash ram instead of a hard drive.

The idea is to get away from moving parts that keep costs up. Flash memory has just about all the desireable features of a disk - except rewrite lifespan. Flash is faster and follows semiconductor economies of scale (gets cheaper, like chips; not bigger like discs). It just can't be used for swap space and you can count the number of titles that use it for that on one hand.
(the frequent rewrites of swap usage would burn through flash memory so fast consumers would sue)

But there's no reason they can't have the huge save games, custom soundtracks and downloadable content.

And if they allow the neXtBox to access songs/video from a network share/feed, I'll be its number 1 fan even without backwards compat.

Hell, no other the only other 'under the tv' console had backwards compat, and they did fine. Backwards compat would kick ass, but I sincerely doubt it's a deal-breaker for a significant portion of gamers. I mean... it's not like the XBox itself was backwards compatible with anything.

If it has the games, the gamers will follow.