Our Friend, The Meter

dbirchall writes "Upon hearing that SpaceShipOne reached 100km today, I did some hasty math based on the altitude in feet sttated by Scaled Composites in their press release, and was surprised to come up with a number under 100,000 meters. Fortunately, a friend pointed out that my inches-to-meters conversion was flawed. Some quick Googling determined that lots of people still have no idea how many inches are in a meter, even after some folks have had big problems because of conversion errors."

Comments

Why should I care?

[tangent3]

Why should I care how many inches are there in a metre (meter for some of you people). Everywhere I go today everything I see is in metric. Whoever uses inches anywa.... oh. *those* people. *sigh*

Re:Why should I care?

[oleimann]

Just because we don't want to, doesn't mean we can't.

We wouldn't have come this far if we weren't a lazy people - that particular trait is the cause of most of our (household) inventions and technological progress.

Having a single, global frame of reference for technical units, which also happens to calculate easily, makes technical development not only faster, but also improves international cooperation.

Sticking to one's own system is just another extra point for one's will for isolationism.

Re:Why should I care?

[Toadpipe]

I suppose you are Yet Another one of my countrymen who thinks that Henry Ford invented the automobile and that it's funny our current leader brags about not reading the news. Ever.

It's people like you who make me ashamed to live here. But For however long it takes people like me will continue to try to better your world for you until you wake up and realize there is nothing great about this country.

If it was "the best place" we'd all have free medicine when we need it, a job, food free from chemicals, food period, less violence in the streets, no racism (which is rampant, from all sides), inexpensive quality housing, both parents (if there are two) in any given family wouldn't have to work (if they can find work) to support their children, we'd actually have cars that live up to emissions standards, it would be safe to eat the fish from our waterways, it would be safe to walk through a city (any city) at night, people would be able to hold police accountable to the same laws they supposedly uphold, we'd stop declairing "war" on abstract concepts ("war on terror" is working about as well as "war on drugs" did), we wouldn't have to filter our water to get rid of the poisons our water treatment plants put in it, we'd never have another case of a high school grad who couldn't read (thousands a year), there'd be nearly free quality higher education for average income people, there'd be less homeless...

I'll stop there for now, but if you ever get tired of just saying it a great place and want to actually help make it a great place, help is needed.

Re:Why should I care?

[Cecil]

This thread is an excellent example of why metric is, in general, easier. Imperial is so loaded with caveats, non-rounded numbers and region-specific changes that no one can remember what the correct conversions are anymore. And even when people do remember, they're only correct to 1 significant digit (8 pounds vs. 8.33...whatever the actual numbers are) whereas metric conversions are very accurate, I'd be surprised if it was less than 6 significant digits in the 1L = 1kg water at standard conditions conversion.

On in the US

[gnuman99]

This problem appears to occur only in the US. Even the British adopted the meter, and they invented the imperial units!

Maybe it's the time for the US to join the metric world. At least we wouldn't loose that Mars probe!

Re:On in the US

[popeydotcom]

A lot of us brits, even those taught the metric system at work, still talk in feet and inches. Our road signs (like US ones) are all in Miles, and I don't see that changing any time soon. We buy beer and milk in pints and mostly weigh in stones and pounds and not kilos. Speed over water and air is still measured in knots, and our road speed limits are in miles per hour.

So whilst we have "adopted" the metric system we still use the "old" measurements day-to-day.

Re:On in the US

[Bootsy Collins]

Do you ever buy soda in two liter bottles?

Cecil Adams pointed out that it's a lot easier to switch than most people think. The way to do it isn't to label everything in both imperial units and metric units; it's to just do it. Instead of labelling each gallon jug of milk with the fact that one gallon = 3.74 liters, thus making the metric system seem comparatively complicated (when in fact, it's less so), the right thing to do is to get rid of gallon jugs and replace them with four liter containers. We see two liter and half-liter soda bottles running around and everyone's fine with it now. Remember a couple of "temperature calibration points" -- water freezes at 0C, 20C = a nice spring day, 34 = Miami in July -- and dealing with the temperature scale change becomes fairly easy. It's trivial when you just do it.

Oh, and as an aside, while you may be very comfortable with miles and pounds and gallons (and, I'd guess, Fahrenheit degrees), how many other imperial units are you comfortable with? Most people aren't familiar with very many. How many people are comfortable with rods, links, chains, bushels, and pecks? How many people understand fluid ounces and ounces of weight (not understand that there's a difference, but what that difference is, and how they're related)? Can you picture an acre in your head fairly accurately? Most people in the U.S. can't, despite the fact that it's the most commonly used unit of land area. For most of us, for most purposes, imperial units are useless because we don't even understand them. One thing that metric units buys you is that the whole thing hangs together, is internally consistent. If any of it makes sense, it all does. I can't visualize an acre, but I can easily visualize a hectare, the corresponding unit of the metric system -- a square that's 100 meters (a little longer than an American football field) on a side.

Just Remember 2.54

[SnowZero]

1 inch = 2.54 centimeters

It's fairly easy to remember, and everything else regarding length conversions can be derived from it. It also happens to be the official definition of the inch, since NIST uses metric internally.

I highly doubt this webpage.

[Inoshiro]

Do you really think that our mind is naturally suited to 3s and 4s? Are you closed to the idea that it could be a much more complex source of interactions in your life that trained your mind to work that way?

Did you ever think that if you grew up in a metric environment, you'd have as much of a troubled time thinking in imperial? The website you linked to didn't think that. After all, naturally you'd be more adept at doing 3 and 3 times stuff in your head if you'd been doing it for all your unit conversion in your life! I've been doing metric in my head, as Canada is not silly like the brits (a brit whose site you link to) who don't sell things by the litre, or measure by the kilometre, or use kilograms as their unit of mass. British people are metric in name only: underneath, the sickening heart of ugly imperial units beats away.

Converting non-metric units in my head is hard, and I usually end up likening it to the ratio out of 10 because that's how I grew up. 5/16ths? Thas' really close to 4/16ths, which is 1/4th which is a weensy bit more than 0.25, so this must be smaller than the 1/2th one which is really 0.50. I don't convert the 16ths and 2ths to a base denominator, I convert them in terms of a 0 to 1.

The kooky site you link to is all about how counting in base-12 is the way to go. I mean, you can take a step back to the way Germanic tribes did it, but I think base-10 is the way to go. Metric's just an outgrowth of it. Imperial units were an outgrowth of kooky base-12 that was used by Germanic tribes -- it's why English uses eleven and twelve instead of oneteen and twoteen. Japanese people don't have this problem -- the go ju-ich, ju-ni, ju-san. Their problem is about 4s and 7s and 9s. Yon or shi? Shi means death! Shichi or nana? Nana is usually used for numbers only. Ku or kyu? .. etc. It's all socially constructed. Those numbers aren't inherently evil or more useful for one purpose or another, it's totally social pressure. Ditto for your ability to work with 3s and 4s in your head. Good on you, but it's hardly a firm basis for such a wide-ranging generalization.

Re:It's not just that the poster is a moron

[Eivind]

Silly. One minor point is true; all other being equal, it's an advantage to work with numbers that have many small factors. "12" for example is nice in being dividible by 2,3,4 and 6 where our familiar 10 is only dividible by 2 and 5.

This advantage is real, but it's in no way enough to even begin to compensate for all the other advantages of metric.

I could give a long list of advantages, but instead I'll say this;

To accelerate 1kg by 1m/s you need a force of 1N. If you push with a force of 1N over a distance of 1m you've used 1joule. If you did this in 1s then your power is 1watt. If you prefer to have an electric motor doing this work for you, it can produce this 1watt by drawing, for example, 1A at 1V. For 1A to flow at a volate of 1V, this means your motor will have an internal resistance equal to 1ohm

Now you repeat that, in imperial units.

Re:It matters because

[dbirchall]

I'm sure there are people on Slashdot for whom I might someday do some work.

I think I can put a spin on this, though, like so:

"Why yes, I did learn in 2004 that I had been operating with an incorrect conversion factor for going from inches to meters. At that time I researched the extent of use of such incorrect factors, made public my findings, and of course corrected my own notes so as to avoid error in any further calculations.

"By the way, Mr. $BOSSNAME, I notice that $COMPANY's web site currently states that a meter is $INCORRECTNUM inches..."

Shouldn't be a problem at all, you see? And if that doesn't work, I can always say, "Look, at least I've realized I was wrong and found the right answer, unlike these teachers, professors, rocket scientists, engineers..." :)

Re:Reason for Imperial units

[rooijan]

You seem to assume that everyone else's windows come in imperial measurements and we all spend our time converting to metric to do difficult sums just for the hell of it. In a metric country, like South Africa, our windows come in nice round metric numbers (138cm is a common one), like all our other measurements.

Obviously you would find it difficult to use metric if all the products you are using are made with imperial measurements that are "nice" numbers. Just bear in mind that other peoples products come with "nice" metric measurements.

Also, I prefer metric becasue I was born after it was adopted and it's all I know, certainly. But it does seem that if everything is ten more than the previous level it's a lot more consistent than imperial where the number of x's in y differs depending on what type of measurement you're talking about.

Arguments against the metric system

[marinebane]

every time somebody makes an argument against the metric system, they are essentially also making that same argument agaisnt the arabic (our) number system. to use a number system with a base of 10 and not use units with a base of 10 is illogical, and impractical where units with a base of 10 are much easier to manipulate using a number system with a base of 10.

Re:Quick note..

[MochaMan]

Amazingly, you're speaking and writing English. So use the logically correct spelling, or change the way you pronounce it to match how you spell it. You fucking idiot.

I, for won, am exited tu help yu re-rite Inglish literachure, in yore new language. "The Nites Of The Round Tabel" iz so much better than chainjing the pronunsiashun tu "the kuh-nig-hets of the raund tahbluh"

How 'bout we all just calm down and realise that no matter how much you rant about one retarded system being better than another retarded system, English simply has fucked up spelling and that's that?

If you truly do feel passionately that meter is better than metre, then please "use your fucking brain" and start spelling table in a way that's consistent with label (as English and Americans alike pronounce it).

On the topic of units of measurement, please feel free to explain why this "pint" unit is still spelled like mint, hint, dint, lint, tint, vint, glint and any other word ending in 'int'. Yes indeed, the Americans have certainly got this spelling thing all worked out once and for all. Pity the rest of us haven't picked up the fantastic system work they've done.

Re:American bashing?

[The Cookie Monster]

The only appropriate base system for units of measure is that of the number system they will be used in.

We work in decimal - base 10.

You arguments are a red herring, they are arguments for us adopt a number system that is base 12 system (which incidently, imperial is not) over the base 10 one we use at the moment, not arguments to have your metrics in a different base to the one they are used in.

In the computer world we work in binary instead of decimal, and relevent computer metrics are base 2 rather than base 10 because of this. Having 12 bits in a byte, 3 bytes in a word and 1760 words in a kb (or whatever) would just be daft, exactly as daft as the imperial system infact.

Also, using an imperial measure of angles to justify the imperial system is a bit circular.