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Canadian High Court Says ISPs Don't Owe Royalties
canwaf writes "According to the CBC, and the other guys: In a 9-0 decision, Canada's highest court ruled, despite the fact that ISPs provide the means for piracy, they are not liable for what people download. They continue in their decision that Internet access providers are not bound by federal copyright legislation. Coupled with an earlier story on Slashdot, this is a very good thing." Edward Scissorhands was one of many readers to link to the Globe and Mail's article, too.
The monarchy is more symbolic then anything, parliment and prime minister still hold all the power.
There is already a CD-R levy in Canada. It was created when the Copyright Act was rewritten to allow copying of any kind for personal use.
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
the highest court cannot be overruled.
In
Screw 'em
Trolling is a art,
They sort of already did.
We pay a tariff on each blank cd we buy of a couple of cents.
Personally, since they make money off of "pirated" music, I feel it legitimizes it. They can't have it both ways.
I hope it won't be overruled by others who might qualify the infrastructure they provide as a medium, like the CDR which are taxed in France and other countries.
It is pretty hard to overrule the SUPREME COURT.
As it usually does, the Canadian Supreme Court has made a sensible ruling here.
Speaking of CDRs, as a Canadian I pay levies (which are forwarded to the record companies) on all blank media that I purchase, so as far as I'm concerned I'm ALREADY paying for my right to copy music, even if it comes from the internet. Its a relief that my ISP won't be forced to contribute to that racket as well.
Don't forget that most of that money winds up going to Bryan Adams and Celine Dion anyway (I'll remind everyone here that the Canadian government has already apologized for Bryan Adams on several occasions, so please lets not start that discussion again!)
Not "any kind". Only musical audio recordings (no spoken word is permitted), and only the person doing the copying is permitted to use the recording (so you can copy your friends shit, but he can't copy it and give it to you).
Funny? I don't think he was joking.
Albuquerque PC
You've obviously never been to Quebec. The women are unbelievable, and overall people are generally down-to-earth and cool. Montreal and QC are beautiful old cities.
And I repeat: incredible women. If you're an American, you've never seen anything like it. Forget about the obese nightmares you're used to (I just watched "Supersize Me" - good LORD!)
And curling is hilarious. How is it a con?
We pay the same 'tax' on blank music CDs in the US. Per the Audio Home Recording Act of 1992, if you use digital audio equipment and audio CDs to copy borrowed music CDs that is not a violation of copyright. The trade-off is that you pay a fee to the RIAA on every audio cd and piece of digital audio recording equipment. Of course, they don't tell you this - they just let you pay the fee on audio CDs and leave digital audio recording equipment essentially unavailable, so they get their tax and can still sue you for copying music CDs.
I've lived in both cities for a number of years.
I prefer Montreal for the vibes, but my friends in Toronto were more interesting.
I'm also bilingual, but you don't have to be -- lots of English-only people live in Montreal too.
I've visited the Maritimes; nice people, but unless you love drinking beer, the nightlife is pretty boring.
Vancouver aint too shabby either. But BC is way overtaxed.
Winnipeg is the coldest in winter, and in the summer is the national mosquito capital.
I currently live in Ottawa, which is less interesting than bigger cities, but at least I'm only a 1.5 hour drive away from Montreal.
Well......that depends on what you want to do up here. Montreal is your party town, best bars/pubs/clubs in Canada. Toronto...... best for business/work and just pure convenience. Vancouver has of course, no snow! but then the rain is not that much better (except for it does not rust your car).
-----
"If everything seems to be going well, you obviously don't know what the hell is going on." - Murphy's Law
not to mention bud is basically legal there!
If by "basically legal" you mean "in practice," then you're basically right. The police tend not to make much effort to prosecute for marijuana possession in Canada.
This is way off-topic, but I want to dispel a misconception. Conan O'Brien once mentioned on his talk show that "Canada's parliament is considering legalizing marijuana..." This was so inaccurate as to be totally incorrect. In fact, at the time, there was a senate committee report that recommended that parliament consider decriminalizing marijuana.
So it wasn't parliament, by which one typically means the House of Commons (the elected lower house), it was the Senate (the unelected upper house). And it wasn't even the whole Senate, but just a committee. They weren't "considering," it was just a report that made a recommendation. And nobody was talking of legalization, just decriminalization, the difference being that it's still not legal, but you just wouldn't get thrown in jail, nor will you get a criminal record for possession - just a fine, rather like a traffic violation.
Some time later, a decriminalization bill was proposed in the House of Commons, but I believe it was dropped when the election was called about a month ago, so there has been no movement by the government in terms of actual legislation. So marijuana possession is, officially, still quite illegal here.
But we actually have the funny single-platform Marijuana Party fighting for legalization here in Canada, so who knows... Maybe someday it will be legal.
Accountability on the heads of the powerful.
Power in the hands of the accountable.
Good point. Though I'd like to point out that broadband is canada is much cheaper than it is in the USA. 3.0/640K DSL for CDN$35/month, no caps, limits, or threatening letters when you go over your 'unlimited' quota. (I don't work for this company and I am not their customer either. But my friends who live in DSL capable areas like them.)
Depends on whether you like really hot summers *and* really cold winters (that would be Montreal).
... Brrr... But then again, Montreal is very trendy - lots of restaurants, clubs, great nightlife, etc.
The humidity there in the summer is a killer. And the winter, well
Toronto - I grew up there. Very cosmopolitan, not quite as much as Montreal though. Financial center of Canada. Winters aren't as bad, summers are pretty warm but without the humidity.
Nice thing about TO is that there are places to go if you want to get out of the city - little sub-urban areas within an hours drive or so. When I lived in Montreal, I felt trapped - it was so bloody far to drive to go anywhere *else*.
Don't forget Vancouver though, which is where I now reside. Very moderate winters (snow is rare), close to the mountains, great summers. Lots to see and do.
SOCAN isn't poor. SOCAN has LOTS and LOTS of cash.
The reason being that every artist and label in the country pays into them, and they charg for radio play of members' music pretty much everywhere.
In fact, I remember a lawsuit with a local restaurant who was playing CDs over the stereo system and got the stick from SOCAN because he wasn't paying his royalties (not that there was much sympathy in the community for him, since that guy was a raging asshole).
I could be wrong on the details, but I'm sure that SOCAN has a lot of agreements that allow them to pull in the cash. Not on the scale of American record industry groups, granted, but in Canadian terms, they ain't broke.
Here's a link to their "Tariff" system, which details how they charge whom, and where: SOCAN Tariffs
Telus, a big ISP in Canada, specifically advertises by saying "Download music for free!" Not only that, but for signing up, you get a free MP3 player.
Yes, the "billionaire corp" is "really fighting for their right to charge you $24.95/mo so you can download stuff for 'free'".
Vip
Yup, it sure looks like Bryan Adams has been disowned by the Canadian Government. ;)
Actually, it isn't.
You only think it is. The reality is that molson canadian and some of the other big canadian beers have a deal with labatts (AFAIR) in the US to bottle under their name, and still only put in wuzzy american amounts of alcohol.
True beers START at 5%.
RoundTop
You're absolutely right. The people with the most money (media companies) want to attack those with less (ISPs and private citizens). That way they can get even more money and have less and less chance to have someone compete against them.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, though I'm not yet sure about the universe. - A Einstein
This ruling is good news (and in line with the Supreme Court's earlier rulings protecting individual privacy). But the fight is not over, trust me. The Heritage Committee, in their report just last month, outlined their plans for ratifying WIPO and wants to change the laws governing ISP responsibility.
Now parliament is out, an election was just held, and the same Liberal party is back in power (minority) with a loose coalition with the NDP party -- who quite strongly supports ratifying WIPO. So I fear that we're going to see Canadian government ratify WIPO, bringing in DMCA-like legislation into Canada. Check out the Digital Copyright Canada forums and get involved if these privacy rights concern you. There is also a national petition for user's rights that you can sign if you are concerned about all these 'special laws' for digital media. Remember that we live in a digital world, but the general public does not realize this. Placing strange restrictions on digital information is just hurting ourselves, and our own industries.
They don't -- they sue the child's ward. This is the person who is legally responsible for the child's actions until they reach the age of majority, and it is usually a parent (or both). If your friends snuck over and used your computer for infringing purposes, this argument might have a case... however, if you wilfully let them come over and use your computer specifically for that purpose, you would be an acessory. If you're over the age of majority, you get the full force of the law applied to you -- if you're under the age of majority, your ward does. "Households" are not sued, people (and corporations because they are given the rights of individuals) are sued.
Have to pipe in on this one. If you're thinking of going to Montreal, then for sure, go to montreal. But if you're thinking of toronto, there are other places that might be more palatable. Vancouver springs to mind right away, but if you're wanting to live somewhere that's a bit cheaper, I recommend Calgary.
Perhaps I'm biased having lived my whole life here, but Calgary's a growing city, has been growing like mad for years, and will be continuing to do so for a while. There's beautiful mountains nearby, with all the hiking, skiing, climbing, camping, mountain-biking you can imagine, and the climate here ain't so bad. A lot might not like it since it's so dry, but the dry cold isn't so bad in the winter, especially since it's sunny for ten out of twelve months of the year.
There, done...at least one plug for Alberta.
Email sent to Heritage Minister and Prime Minister:
& u=/washpost/ 20040330/tc_washpost/a34300_2004mar29
b /ind ex_e.cfm.
Honourable Ms. Scherrer;
I have heard your recent comments about seeking to change the Copyright Act.
I would urge you to consider very carefully what steps are taken in any changes to this act. As the act stands, Canadians pay a levy on
recordable media, money from which specifically goes to the music industry in compensation for supposed lost revenues.
As such if the law is changed, I would also expect any media levies to be immediately lifted, as the proper method for handling any cases
of copyright infringement would then fall to the music industry and the legal system of Canada, and not to a discriminatory levy applied
to the majority of law-abiding citizens.
Beyond this, the issue of whether revenues are lost at all is entirely debatable, as you can see in this story from the Washington Post
citing a study done by two university researchers specializing in economics:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story
This issue of copyright is a very important one to me because those countries that address the issue properly stand to be at the
fore-front of the information economy. Limiting information flow to prop up business models that simply are no longer feasible is not the
way to go about this.
Thank you for your time.
Me
Response received
On behalf of Ms. Hélène Chalifour Scherrer, Minister of Canadian
Heritage, thank you for your correspondence regarding potential changes to
the Copyright Act and expressing your views regarding the private copying
levy on blank audio recording media.
Ms. Chalifour Scherrer appreciates your advising her of your views
and has noted your comments with respect to these matters. Policy
developments abroad encouraged the establishment of private copying levies
for the benefit of authors, performers and producers of sound recordings
long before Canada decided to establish such mechanisms. The private
copying levy has been promoted as the only efficient mechanism to offset
increasing reproduction capacity made available through developments in
consumer electronics.
The levy on blank audio recording media was developed to apply
generally on all media ordinarily used by consumers to copy music for their
private use. Accordingly, the law governing the levy was drafted to give
the Copyright Board of Canada, a specialized tribunal, the authority and
discretion necessary to accurately evaluate the appropriate portion of
music copied onto some of the media used by consumers for any digital data.
It should be noted that the Government is not involved in the
collection, administration or distribution of the levy; these tasks are
carried out by the Canadian Private Copying Collective (CPCC). Detailed
information on the levy is outlined on the CPCC Web site at
http://cpcc.ca/english/about.htm and the Copyright Board Web site at
http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/index.html.
Information and updates on the copyright reform process, including
issues on file sharing and the private copying levy, are available on the
Department of Canadian Heritage Web site at
http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/ac-ca/progs/pda-cp
I trust that this information is useful. Please accept our best
wishes.
So, essentially, go ask THOSE people..
"Anybody who tells me I can't use a program because it's not open source, go suck on rms. I'm not interested." (LT 2004)
I've been all over the US and Europe and can honestly say Toronto is one of the best places in the world in which to live. It's growing at at an incredible pace and with that growth we're seeing our share of problems like increases in pollution and crime rates. At the same time, when benchmarked against all other major cities of the world with a population in the area of 5 million, Toronto is amazingly safe and clean. In general, our taxes are higher than in the US, but this is offset by higher average incomes. The good news is we see real/tangible benefits for the tax dollars we pay and enjoy a standard of living you simply don't see anywhere in the rest of the world. "Cottage country" (as we call it) is about an hour outside of the metro area and has some of the most beautiful summer camping, fishing,boating,lakes and beaches you'll ever enjoy. Toronto nightlife is a blast and there's ALWAYS something interesting happening. Other reasons to check out T-O in the summer: Wasaga beach, Queens Quey, the Islands, Niagra region, Canada's Wonderland, CN Tower, Skydome, Wooden Sticks/Angus Glen and the Docks nightclub. (www.thedocks.com/)
Ok, that is the "standard" reasoning of english Canadians. I live in Hull and work with a lot of english speakers (Hull/Ottawa being separated only by a river very easily crossed) and most of them view things that way.
As a french Canadian that comes from Laval, I have a very different view on this. First, a quck history course: Once upon a time, north america was split between english and french. Then came the USA and a couple of wars that ended up with the english beating the french. So, at the time, Canada was a british colony occupying former french territories. Then the colony became a country. During all those years, lots of measures were taken to minimise the french speakers influence like having 50/50 representation when there was more french than english speakers to change that to rep by pop when english speakers became the majority. Up until the 1960's, it was nearly impossible to be successful IN Quebec, where the vast majority of the population was french speaking, unless you were an english speaker. For most of that time, the french culture was mostly preserved by the "traditionnalist" approach of the church that kept our economy mostly agricultural based with lots of farmers in small french villages.
Then, in the 60's, something changed. We call it the "Revolution Tranquille" or quiet revolution. Quebec people achieved a LOT in very short time. They introduced public schools, nationalised electricity, voted laws to protect the french language and the french speakers. The Quebec people were at last PROUD people, not the victims of a conquest trying to survive assimilation.
Of course, this new nationalism didn't please the rest of Canada, and it is still true today. But, and quebecers and Canadians alike are responsible for this, everyone blew this out of proportions. Instead of embrassing this "double culture", the english and french continued to fight, up to this day.
Canada is a vast country and many parts have largely different views on how it should be ruled.
Out in the west, they view the Quebec nationalism as a plague. In Quebec, many view the english as oppressors. In fact, it is an indication of something fundamentally wrong with the country.
What is fundamentally wrong with the country is that Ottawa refuses to see the truth that Quebec is NOT identical to the other provinces. It is not better or worse, it is different. Here we don't speak english, we speak french. We don't drink molson canadian, we drink laurentide (although that might have changed since i looked). We don't celebrate Canada's national holyday, we celebrate the St-Jean-Baptiste (Most people are moving July 1st, since it's a holyday and they don't care about celebrations). We totally abhorre the monarchy stuff. We are more social-democrats than anyone else on the continent. We have a distinct culture. Most see themselves as Québécois fist, Canadians 2nd. Even in the worst years, about 40% of the population say they are fed up with Canada and want to separate. We have a different school system (CÉGEPs being the prime example). I could go on forever.
As I said, WE ARE NOT BETTER OR WORSE, we simply want to be acknoledged for what we are: 7 Millions french speakers in an ocean of over 300 Millions of english speakers. In order to protect the french language, the government HAS to pass laws, otherwise, it will soon be like before the 60's all over again. In case you didn't know, all over Canada, the french minorities are diseappearing, except in Quebec. I just look at Ontarians living in places like Orléans and assimilation is the first word I can think of. The Harris government has not been kind to them and right now there are a lot of consequences to that.
So, with all this ranting, do I have a solution ? Yes and no. Yes only if everyone can stop fighting and agree that the Canadian model is painfully outdated and needs a thourough review. In particular, give Quebec or any province for that matter the opportunity to opt-out of any federal program with compen
source: http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/031001/d03100
Homicide rate per 100,000 inhabitants in the US for the year 2002: 5.6e d/02-table02.html
source: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/offreport
Violent crime rates are harder to compare because the definition is not the same in each country.