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They Might Be Giants Open Their Own Music Store
slothdog writes "They Might Be Giants have opened their own music store, featuring "highest quality" (256kbps LAME) un-DRM-encumbered mp3's. There are only two CDs currently available (at $0.99/song or $9.99/album), but presumably more will be added as time goes on. Looks like a great way to directly support the artists."
Hey, if I can download particle man, then all is good in the world.
Will they be available to customers in Istanbul (not Constantanople)?
Etiquette is etiquette. He kills his mother but he can't wear grey trousers.
Some day middlemen will die and I'll get the money...
I also reply below your current threshold.
Some huge artist needs to join the bandwagon...
without that, or some pepsi backing, it won't win the 'music store race'
(where's limp bizkit, after their last album they would do something like this for the publicity)
Runnin' On Empty
They've got some intersting old stuff on it.
Dial-a-Song
please do not trade them with your friends or post them on-line as this service is how we are making a living
I hope they don't honestly expect to make a living selling a handful of $0.99 cent tracks.
I hope they don't honestly think that people aren't going to trade them with their friends.
I hope they realize their terms of use is 404.
Disclaimer: I never really got into TMBG (read: I don't like them).
Human being (n.): A genetically human, genetically distinct, functioning organism.
Music Store man, Music Store man Doing the things a Music Store can What's he like? It's not important Music Store man Is he a dot, or is he a speck? When he's underwater does he get wet? Or does the water get him instead? Nobody knows, Music Store Man Music Store man, Music Store man Music Store man hates Napster man They have a fight, Music Store wins Music Store man I-Tunes man, I-Tunes man Size of the entire universe man Usually kind to smaller man I-Tunes man He's got a watch with a minute hand, Millenium hand and an eon hand When they meet it's a happy land Powerful man, I-Tunes man P2P man, P2P man Hit on the head with a frying pan Lives his life in a garbage can P2P man Is he depressed or is he a mess? Does he feel totally worthless? Who came up with P2P man? Degraded man, P2P man Music Store man, Music Store man Music Store man hates P2P man They have a fight, Music Store wins Music Store man
They've built a little birdhouse for my soul.
why can't these music stores use a more superior format. they can then give more bang for your bitrate. they still stick with the old mp3.
there are portable vorbis players out there, we need more online stores now.
Yeah, because when you want to reach the widest possible audience with your new e-tailing venture, you should always endeavour to avoid selling popular products or using popular technologies in favour of more obsure goods or less supported formats.
Oh, wait, that business model's been patented. Do you remember boo.com?
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
I haven't purchased a TMBG album since FLOOD (a lifetime ago, I know), but was ready to purchase both the albums just to show support. The little help window mentioned specific browser versions needed on Windows and Mac, and I would have preferred to either see Linux mentioned in that window, or some explanation as to why specific versions were necessary to download. Not sure what would happen with Mozilla, so I figure I'll wait until someone posts here.
I also didn't like the '6 hour time window' in which to download my purchase... I'd like more time to resolve any issues that might come up doring download - in fact, I'd like them to create an account for me, and let me download them at any time - and possibly again in the future if for some reason I lose them.
Clicking on the "You dont have flash - click here for the text version" pops up a TMBG guy telling me "Get flash you hippie"
Way to shame me into it.
So mind your own business!
I'm not keen on giving out my credit card number to every single band's website. I've enjoyed lots of music I bought via Bitpass and have found the process to be easy and fast. I've even got a few bucks left in my account earmarked for the next indie band I like.
If you're going to set up a store, please make Bitpass one of your payment options. Thanks.
Just like most of the world, people tend to cater to the majority. Most people do not use Ogg. Most people use MP3. Fact of life.
In fact, I suspect that there are a huge number of MP3 hardware players compared to Ogg. I only know of one or two dedicated hardware players capable of playing Ogg files. A few more that do WMA, and I could list probably twice as many MP3 players. Do the math. You want to sell to the most people, you give them the format that's used most often.
Wow, and I'm not encumbered by the choice of which music to buy. I hope they don't add to much more music. It's just perfect as is! It's also great for the /. crowd: one site, one crowd, two CDs to rule them all.
less people will know that They Might Be Giants have their own stuff.
They would almost certainly be more profitaable in the long haul even if they get less from iTunes/Apple, but I guess having the two is a good idea too.
They seem to be on all the major online stores and have their own - good move.
What they should do is offer a discount of whatever they get from iTunes/Apple for those that have bought iTunes Music Store Songs.
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
Currently, only two TMBG albums are available. "NO!", their children's album, and "They Got Lost", a collection of rarities. But I'm going to assume that they will eventually have all of their albums available. Of course, I already have all of their albums on CD (and several on vinyl).
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
I realize that simplicity in pricing is their goal, but it seems odd that little between track oddities lasting 34 seconds are priced the same as a 'real' song.
TMBG put on the most entertaining concert I've ever attended. The skit with the puppet heads in the spotlight 15 feet over the stage was a scream. And lugging the glockenspiel all the way to Colorado for one note during one song was a nice touch.
My band has given away online tunes free for a couple of years now. At least you can play it through the site, you can probably figure out how to save them with a bit of geekery and craftiness, I am sure.
Despite giving away the music, we get at least a couple of CD sales through the internet every week!
Karma seems to be working in this case, because people often email in and say they heard the band on the radio, loved the music, did a web search, listened to a lot of the tunes, and wanted to own a copy for themselves or as a gift.
Not sure if this will work in 5 years if people don't buy CDs any more, but it's working for us at the moment.
Shameless plug - go to www.oninvisiblewings.com to see what I mean. If you listen to some tunes and decide to buy the album, then you will have proved the theory! A good intoduction the music is A Formidable Marinade.
Regards,
The Baron von Babyface
(with the face of a boy on the body of a middle-aged man)
baron@oninvisiblewings.com
But their site is obviously not.
Stay tuned for new sig...
They Might Be Giants were one of the first artists years ago to release an album ONLY in MP3 emusic.com which, while it's not as cool now, for a little while was pretty nice, it was cheap, DRMless and available in multiple formats at multiple bitrates.
Beyond that though, they regularly put songs up on their website, including exclusive unreleased songs (similar to their dial-a-song service where you call up and hear a new song on their answering machine).
I have to say the one major hurdle that has steered me away from downloading music from the iTunes and others has been the DRM. I'm sure there's few among this crowd that would disagree. I realize, I could still burn my downloaded music to a CD and do what I please with it, but it's really the principal of the fact.
But my complaint comes out at lossy codecs. Maybe I'm just being too picky, but the less compressed the better. A few years ago I put my whole CD collection in MP3 format for my computer/portable listening enjoyment. All at 160K CBR using XING. Of course, with the availability of an ogg player for my handheld PC, I have converted again much of my CD collection to ogg format for my computer/portable listening enjoyment.
If I hadn't had the uncompressed quality of the CD, I'd be stuck with my older MP3 encoded files. I had heard of a project earlier put forth where the company/band was releasing tracks in multiple formats, including FLAC (curious if anyone has a link or knows what I'm talking about?).
I personally wish that others would go this route--more choice.
I'm done complaining though. Seeing artists walk away from DRM is a great thing. Seeing them recognize the importance of the higher bitrate is also very encouraging. I hope this causes more of a rift between the good bands and the strong arm of the RIAA. It can only be a move in the right direction for consumers.
"God is dead!" - Nietzsche
"Nietzsche is dead!" - God
Sadly this is more often than not the case. Recording contracts are generally "contractual work" and due to recent changes that were snuck into U.S. copyright law this definition is now binding. If the artists did this for a record label they'll never own it, and have to pay to sell their own music. Which would be such a horrible shame.
I don't know what sort of label TMBG played under, so this may not be the case. They may be free to sell their music whenever they want, and are just starting slowly. I sure hope so.
The Cheese Stands Alone.
Makes a lot of sense to get rid of DRM since people can already buy audio CDs anyway which are DRM free. And might as well sell it in a format currently most popular amongst consumers, mp3, although I wish they'd also sell it in AAC format (comparable audio quality takes up less space on my hard drive).
Regarding other artists that also give away free mp3s, I find a lot of artists on the Kill Rock Stars label give away free full length mp3s, especially Stereo Total (factsheet) and DeerHoof (factsheet, Puzzling Music Archive).
Don't get me wrong, I love TMBG...
But what makes this newsworthy?
A lot of artists, like Stuart Davis have been selling high quality MP3s à la carte for song time. Most of Stuart's are ripped using LAME --alt-preset extreme, now --preset extreme, for even higher quality than TMBG's CBR rips. And, Stuart even offers free songs.
but I really wish someone would get up and offer unencoded raw music files. At 48,000kbps sampling rate. This lets me choose what lossy format I want to use, and I would seriously start buying entire albums like candy.
Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
The last line proves that Terry really does know about the music industry. (-:
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
http://www.livephish.com/
They have both MP3 and FLAC of their shows, and they are available within a day or two of the show. They have "every show Phish has played since 12/31/02" along with some other shows too.
I just bought it for a few reasons:
1) I like TMBG.
2) It helps support the artist very effectively.
3) If enough people buy it, it will send a message to the RIAA that selling unencumbered MP3s is a better business than selling all these DRMed tunes.
By the way, no problems during the download process. Very easy, but not as seemless as iTMS. Still fun, and I was happy enough spending the $10.
TMBG is a band that has worked their asses off for years and years. While not "commercially viable" according to what corporate overlords dictate, they've managed to garner a cult following and become a success. I remember being in Manhattan more than a decade ago and I couldn't walk a few blocks anywhere in the city without seeing their flyers all over the place. If any group deserves success and attention, it's these guys.
I heard them on Air America Radio the other day and they were great... I especially loved the bit where they "accidently" gave out the 1-800-AFAMILY telephone number of the right wing religious nutjob organization that apparently sent out a missive to people with Michael Moore's personal contact information and suggested he be harassed for releasing the "un-american" movie Fahrenheit 911.
The change of the "work for hire" definition was snuck in via a technical amendment to The Satellite Home Viewer Improvement Act of 1999.
AFAIK, it has not been struck down.
You should also be aware seminal european electronic music label Warp Records does much the same thing with their catalog.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Fortunately we have independent artists like TMBG who do own their own music.
Independent...as in...they don't have a label.
They're not just starting to release their music. They've been doing it for a while.
The RIAA doesn't represent the entire music buisness. Go check out cdbaby.com where other indie musicians are releasing their own work, without a contract.
You don't need a label to sing a song. (or be good at singing a song.)
And while we're on the subject of labels and contracts and stuff, let me just plug this now famous document in case you haven't read it: http://www.negativland.com/albini.html
Seriously tho, my immediate reaction to this is of course very positive. I like the idea of cutting out the BS middle man and actually paying the artist directly. The idea that the artist in this case still actually owns their own music (which should just be a given) is rather nice. But it brings up some questions.
I keep going back and forth with this in my head and I still haven't found a complete solution. Given that the "problem" if you will is that artists in the past haven't been able to equip themselves readily with the means to provide their own distribution and sales, they've classically been forced to utilize record companies not only to take care of these needs but also to promote their work, and in the end they get the short end of the stick, even if it has been their best option. (I.E. making pennies on the dollar per cd sale net profit).
I came up with one idea, whether it's feasible or not you decide for yourself. The main reasons I have a hard time paying for a cd is the price, the fact that so little of that is going to the artist, and that in doing so I'm essentially funding the same effort that is trying to lock everything down and take away our basic fair use rights. So it seems the evil that is done outweighs the good when you buy a cd in the store. SO my idea is this: Why not set up a website, where people who have already gone wherever it is that they go, and downloaded their music illegally, where they can go and "make a donation" so to speak based on selecting specific tracks or albums that they have acquired. The website would ring up the "donation" based on what you select, run a paypal transaction and forward the money to the artist. Basically a very professional looking honor system. The artist of course can still be through whatever record label they choose unless accepting donations is specifically prohibited by their contract. The prices could be insanely competitive and still pay the artist alot more than the cut they currently get.
The problem (other than the obvious honor system pitfalls and possible legal issues) that I see here is that if you eventually cut out the middle man (record labels) entirely, what you are left with is just bands, their music, and their fans. While this model words great for established groups, it doesn't appear to leave much room for new bands.
Maybe in the end it would be enough for the record labels and this honor donation system to coincide, as that would obviously provide competition and motivation for the record industry to reduce its bloated infrastructure, lower overhead and in the end cut prices to compete with the honor donation system.
I don't know, what do you guys think??
You suck dude.
If an artist requests that you don't file share their music, don't. If they support filesharing, then fine, thats where most of the good music is anyway (even though i am a HUGE fan of TMBG).
If they're giving you (trusting you with) good-quality non-DRM mp3s (mp3's yeah yeah ok ogg is better), don't abuse that.
Emusic used to have a TMBG "boutique" which also featured special free bonuses (no purchase necessary) every month.
They still have an extensive catalog of TMBG, where you can get Canstantinople, Birdhouse in your Soul and Particle Man (all of them on Severe Tire Damage but there's no more boutique, which may be part of the reason TMBG wanted to move on.
According to EncSpot, Emusic is not doing shabby encodes:
Birdhouse in your Soul.mp3
(bitrate graph defeated by LAMEness filter - now that's ironic...or is it apt?)
Type: mpeg 1 layer III
Bitrate: 203
Mode: joint stereo
Frequency: 44100 Hz
Frames: 7351
Length: 00:03:12
Av. Reservoir: 73
Emphasis: none
Scalefac: 29.8
Bad Last Frame: no
Encoder: Lame 3.92
Lame Header:
Quality: 78
Version String: Lame 3.92
Tag Revision: 0
VBR Method: vbr-old / vbr-rh
Lowpass Filter: 19000
Psycho-acoustic Model: nspsytune
Safe Joint Stereo: yes
nogap (continued): no
nogap (continuation): no
ATH Type: 4
ABR Bitrate: Unknown
Noise Shaping: 2
Stereo Mode: Joint Stereo
Unwise Settings Used: no
Input Frequency: 44.1kHz
--[ EncSpot Console 2.0 ]--[
http://www.guerillasoft.com ]--
It's not 256kbps, but my dsl is slow enough that I prefer Emusic's compact VBR downloads. The 3 minute song is 4.66 megabytes, about 50% larger than the 128kbps file they used to distribute.
Anyway, this new TMBG "boutique" is no more "direct from the artist" than Emusic was. The people behind this site are Back Office Music, the same guys who developed the Primus "Boutique." All they've done is change digital labels, really, though I think the "personal service" they're getting from BOM is better for them.
I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
Don't forget that the record label puts up tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars for studio time and marketing. . .
.which they most of the time lose to artists who make a crappy record or even blow their advance on coke.
.
Don't forget that the artists owe this back to the record company.
. .
They should sign better artists. The recording studio is most often payed directly by the record company, the money for such is rarely in the form of a "cash advance." They know better than that. Unless you're an established artist that recording studio is also likely to be owned by or under contract to the record company. They get the money for every angle possible.
The record is a joint effort, and the label deserves to be rewarded for its speculation.
Certainly, but it is speculation, therefore they should also be prepared to take risks, and lose, just as I should be "rewarded" for speculating on a stock or house. I have to mind my own business, do my research, and take my chances. So do they.
What's a shame is that the standard contracts are "artist gets shit". .
Ah, yes, you see? This is what they call what they deserve for their speculation. The artist speculates too, and such financial speculation is, these days, often stipulated by the terms of the recording contract and any monies advanced to them by the record companies to capitalize such speculation are loans owed back to the record company, taken off the top of record sales, but often still owed by the artists even if the record tanks. You can go bankrupt with a 100k in unit sales and a good tour.
So, you work for hire, don't get payed, but go massively into debt to boot to the people who "hired" you.
Sounds like a fair deal to me.
KFG
This Might Be A Wiki: TMBW.Net
(isn't that cool?)
There's tons of The Smashing Pumpkins stuff that Billy (lead singer) got people to release. Some major stuff, like a 5 disc set of B-sides (Mashed Potatoes).
Most of this stuff here was made by Billy himself, and given to an online fan with the message to "circulate this". He's a pretty cool guy, and he's going to be releasing a new album.
Yea, Flood, the album everyone wants is already on Rhapsody. Its no itunes, i guess, but as a mobie tech, my music follows and i pay 10 bucks a month for as many new albums as I choose to support, and a crapload more. So uhh yea, once again, real isnt the company you want it to be, Apple isnt always the best choice, and ill always get modded down. Thx slashdot!
With Weed, musicians always get to set the price of the song (usually about a dollar, of course) and get 50% from every sale. Weed publishers Shared Media Licensing, Inc gets just 15%. 35% goes to the people buying then sharing the music. (20%, 10%, then 5% commissions) And sites like ShareNewYork.com make it very easy to buy Weed files, upload them, and review why it's and great song, why you chose it. Whatever the cost of the song, if 5 people buy it, the song has paid for itself. It's also a great place to look for new songs, because most songs are posted with a few words from a fan.
Weed files are legal to share, and will play 3 times for free (on Windows Machines. Macophiles, I feel your pain) They are ideal for new musicians, since it is usually free to get your music in this format, and the music must be original. Now that CD Baby has endorsed Weed, 65,000+ musicians can convert their files by oping in to Weed as part of digital distribution, again for free.
Oh, and Heart's new Album, Jupiter's Daughter, is available in Weed.
For some reason, this Weed - CD Baby deal is completely below the notice of the media. I think it's the biggest deal in OMD since MP3.com went public, but the media doesn't get it. Anyone see anything about it here on /. ? What's up with that? CD Baby gives that needed catalog of 100,000+ files. As a whole, CD Baby represents 230,000 songs, but it remains to be seen how many will opt in.
With Weed files, there's actual potential for income for everyone ... musician, distributors, and even fans! The better each does their job, the more everyone will make. Music becomes a capital investment. it makes new business models of music possible. Now is the time to get involved.
- Future Founder of Pagans for the Buddha
Sounds good to me. If more bands take control of their own output like this, that can only be a good thing. I used to think it might just be me getting older, but modern music really is rubbish: it's pre-chewed baby food and has to be, because there's so much money involved in marketing and packaging and lawyers that it has to be dumbed down for the largest possible audience just to make any kind of profit.
What would work even better is if a band's CD also acts as a passport for added-value services on the website - so if you buy a CD, you can also download MP3s, bonus tracks, wallpapers, ringtones and so on from the website at no additional charge. Real fans buy the CD and get extra goodies. Passing fans just download MP3s cheaply and delete them if they get tired of them. Anyone who just wants to check out the band will pick up some MP3s from their favourite P2P network and either buy more or decide they suck, so it's not like the band loses out.
See? No need for DRM if you DIY. I'm in a band myself... if we ever get round to recording anything, that's the way I want us to go. I'm too old to go selling my soul to a record company.
While maybe not popular here on /., Metallica does exactly what you're talking about. They sell soundboard recordings of every concert in both MP3 and FLAC, usually within 48 hours of the show. For those that care, its here.
From what I understand, just like the service Phish has. I just wish more bands did the same.
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
but on a side note, they picked an unusual port (8543) to run their secure server. This means a small percentage of users won't be able to use their site.
It was also enough to turn up this other article from November 2000:I wish a happy Independence Day to musicians everywhere.
Stupid job ads, weird spam, occasional insight at
Hell, I've heard demo-tapes from the 70's that sound better than actual albums. But the catch was, you could have a KILLER tape, but no way to distribute it.
/. when these topics come up. Usually, the focus is on copyright and the lock the major content providers have on copyright law through their bought and paid for congress-critters. The fix is definitely in.
So so so true. I've been saying this for several years on
But there is hope, because the copyright really belongs to the artist, as long as the artist doesn't sell it.
In the past, major content providers (news, music, movies) have had near monopolies because they controlled two things--
1. What got produced
2. What got distributed
Making good recordings was very expensive. You had to have special studios with special equipment for every step of the process.
Besides the costs of recording, there were the costs of actually producing the physical media. Vinyl LP's were pressed in factories where the initial setup was such that you had to press a LOT of copies to justify the setup costs.
And finally, you had to have a distribution channel to get the finished product out into record stores.
That's all gone now-- A guy in his mother's basement could do it all with a $1k computer. Studio, cd factory, worldwide advertising via his website, free samples, downloadable songs, fan club, book tour dates, the works. One single modest computer can do it all.
I could record a song this morning at this desk, mix it, and distribute it free worldwide by this afternoon. In 1990 that would have been incomprehensible science fiction.
Send lawyers, guns, and money. Dad, get me out of this.
I paid my $10.00 to download They Might Be Lost just before bed last night. It can download all night, then I have new music to listen to in the morning!
Except that they give you a page with 21 download links on it! That's right: click on the first track, click save. Click on the next track, wait for the save dialog to show up, click save. Click on the third track, wait a LONG time for the save dialog... It's insane.
But it gets worse. Each file wants to be named "tmbg_6134634563543_12.mp3" instead of, say, "12 - Reprehensible.mp3". I haven't managed to download any tracks yet so know about the tagging but, given the file names, I don't expect much...
And, they give you only a six hour window in which to download everything! I was too tired to go through the hassle last night, so I went to bed. This morning, of course, I'm locked out.
You've got to be kidding me. I still buy my music because I believe artists should be paid for their hard work (buying CDs direct from the band in small venues is my favorite). But, let me tell you, file sharing is one hell of a lot easier to use than this site! At least I can download all the tracks at once, have it work overnight, and they're usually named something sensible.
Please contact me when I can click *one* link, then download properly named files. Anything else is just a waste of my time.
Good thing I paid by credit card...
Yes, when you enter the non-flash portion of the site there is a graphic of Richard Nixon saying "Get flash you hippie".
Yo, slashdotlings, this does not mean that TMBG's site requires flash! It's just a graphic on the first page of the non-flash section. It will not bite you. Geez, people, get a grip (and a sense of humor).