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Getting Your Company to Migrate from IE?
RunningFerreT asks: "With all the recent warnings and recommendations on migrating from MSIE, I have come across a serious problem. The company for which I work doesn't want to, even after being informed of all the exploits and problems with Internet Explorer. Having the boss 'try out' Firefox isn't working: a single site looks bad, so IE must be better. Has anyone had success in convincing management types to switch from IE, to another more secure, standards compliant browser? If so, how did you get the job done?"
...which site? And do other sites render worse in IE than they do in Firefox?
;) and give the end users the option to switch. The upside? They get to waste an hour of company time moving into a new browser. :-p And less work for the ITS guys.
As for migrating from IE, I've never had a problem encouring people. The built-in popup blocker is almost an instant 'OK! I'm converted!'. This may or may not be helpful: http://texturizer.net/firefox/faq.html
Perhaps, distribute a company-wide email, linking to a download for Firefox (put it on a local server, first, link to that, save Moz the bandwidth.
Informatus Technologicus
Remind your boss that the reason the sites look so terrible in non-IE browsers is because the sites do not conform to WWW standards. By insisting IE continue to be used indicates Microsoft should dictate what websites should look like, not the Internet inventors themselves. Surely he or she can agree that Microsoft should not be given that power. Thus, sticking to IE is not a solution, rather it contributes to the problem.
I've tried getting my mom to switch countless times, always with problems. My current plan is to wait for Firefox 1.0, and then make her switch again.
:)
At work, many people use IE - but nobody has to. I'm also plannign on moving everyone at the office to Firefox once it hits 1.0. It's hard to get the PHB's to agree to something that's not 1.0
I just installed Firefox, then deleted the IE icons and then created new ones that had the IE icon and said "internet explorer" but whose link went to Firefox.
No compliants, no spyware since.
Karma: Excellent (fuck, even in the future moderation doesn't work!)
We need everyone in our industry to switch. All of the ISVs and vendor extranet type applications require IE. We cannot switch from IE until the functionality provided by these companies is compatible with mozilla or moved from the browser based application. It'd be nice to have them only load IE for the specific app but trust me: users are stubborn. An extra click or two would cause them too much pain and suffering.
I'm currently trying to get my boss to use Safari (recording studio with all G4's). He got stuck on using IE back in OS 9.x, and just isn't a 'computer person'. If his banking site doesn't work well in Safari, or something doesn't look exactly like IE, he doesn't like it.
My simple idea so far is just to remove his permissions to IE
Tibbon
tibbon.com
This is one thing that allways got to me. Why isnt there a theme that mimics IE's gui perfectly? My parents were resistant to switching to firefox but I pressed them and basicly said it was IE's once removed cousin before they adopted it.
Never could figure out why my girl liked my bitch tits, then I found out she was a lesbian.
Just because a single site "looks bad" by the boss' taste is hardly an excuse for letting open your company's IT infrastructure to all sort of malware and viruses. Even if not for the technical aspect, the boss will understand how much money can saved by avoiding the problems in the first place, and should be convinced. Same as with backups, really: this comment from earlier today, is pretty insightful to that matter: how much is your data worth ? Justify the migration "costs" (free in your case, but some cosmetic issues the boss will have to do with) by figuring out what your data is worth to begin with.
Funny...
Lots of people say that, yet I don't seem to be suffering the least using any of a number of non MSIE browsers, on my non MS OS.
I guess I'm just lame or something and am not using the "hot" or "cutting-edge" web sites... or perhaps the claim that " if you do not use IE, your missing out on imporatant sites etc.." is just plain FUD.
But, so as to not make waves, I'll opt for the "I'm lame" answer...
Branding still means something. I'm installing Netscape Navigator 7.1 on our stations, because it's a recognizable brand name, and more readily acceptable than say, Mozilla, even though they're essentially the same product. I get IE out, and a Gecko based browser in, which is the most important thing.
I understand the enthusiasm here for Firebird, but it's still essentially a beta product. Netscape/Mozilla has always rendered pages for me correctly, so I'M more comfortable with that option as well. Yes, the Feds warning against IE helps, but if you're an IT manager or sysadmin, it's still your rep on the line when something doesn't work right. The fact that Netscape appears to have gotten a reprieve (7.2 is coming out soon) helps matters. Businesses and government organizations like to play it safe. They don't want to hear beta or open source. They want to hear a trusted brand name. When that brand name uses open source, all the better for you the technology implementer.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
At several of the organizations I've been involved with over the last couple of years, remote email (and calendar and discussion and ) has been via Outlook Web Access. Funny enough, usability tanks regarding attaching files, spell check, moving emails, preview panes, etc.
IMHO, it is not the internet at large that's the issue with browser shifts; it's the intranet.
Thinking of starting a business in Minnesota? Me too! mnsmall.biz
Don't pull it, create a GPO to prevent running it and apply it to that group of users I guess.
OK, as a rule, when someone is asking a question about workplaces and bosses and corporate policies -- answers regarding "Here's what I did for my mom / my sister / my grandma..." tend not to be super helpful.
I had all customer service agents switched to Firefox in a weekend, all they use is the UPS website to check tracking numbers, so the rest of the stuff they do is usually not business related so they don't complain. Have a few java apps, they work well, one required me to install Java 1.5.0 (Err I mean Java 5!) instead of 1.4.2 because it was running dog slow in Firefox with 1.4.2 ....
Imported Favorites and settings...made IE hidden..
2 or 3 users are special cases and they really need IE for some IE specific ActiveX crap but that's it...
I spent 5minutes clearing spyware in the past 6 weeks.
In any event, when faced with a similar situation, I generally follow this tack:
1. Write a memo (I'm better with the written word than the spoken word - additionally, the written word has a date on it) that clearly, unemotionally lays out the advantages/drawbacks to whatever I'm proposing. If you're fairly good with the written word, you can weight your bias, if you're so inclined. Even without bias, you can mention stuff like the TRUE costs of fighting a vulnerability (computer/worker downtime, multiplied by the number of users, estimated cost in your salary per instance, etc).
2. Submit the memo, and don't get offended if your idea is not taken. Even well reasoned, compelling arguments are not always enough. Keep in mind that we're focusing on base hits, not home runs.
3. Time is on your side. There will only be more vulnerabilities. This does not mean you should be happy with new vulnerabilities, but they are only serving to bolster your case. Hopefully you've made management aware of the associated costs of dealing with IE vulnerabilities. Keep in mind that management understands cost and benefit. They don't respond to features and feelings. Do a really good job of showing how the cost and benefits outweigh the inconvenience, and you'll usually have a green light.
Anyway, I hope this helps.
We all get along together like tornadoes and trailer parks.
You might try communicating with "management types" instead of writing them off in the way you seem to do from the tone of your submission. I understand that the stereotype is humorous, but if you aren't able to communicate the reasons why Firefox is superior, then the blame falls as much on you as it does on him (or her).
Forward your boss a few of those "Update your Ebay/Citibank/Capital One/Wells Fargo account details" emails.
:)
After he fills them all out and submits them, go into his office and explain to him what he just did.
Ok then, it worked at the front receptionist's desk. Biggest culprit of spy/crap/malware in the whole place.
I hate sigs.
Let's stop IE at the webserver. Someone needs to create mod_noie, which returns a page to download FireFox and/or Mozilla if it detects the user is using MSIE. Warn the user they have an insecure browser that's hurting the internet and they need to upgrade.
It worked for Microsoft to squelch DR-DOS, didn't it? Turnabout is fair play.
How about spending your efforts applying updates and hotfixes? With some research and initial legwork this can be mostly automated. You (basically) say he is not moved or considering your viewpoints, but are you considering his?
13 Reasons to use firefox over IE
I think i once saw a page with like 100 reasons. But this covers the major ones.
- tristan
Total up your costs for coping with IE's problems for each of the past several years, extrapolate that for the next few years, and compare all this with the costs of migrating to Firefox (or the browser of your choice). Show them the graphs of total money spent from five years ago to five years from now, and make it clear how much money you would have (or will) save by making the change.
If you can't show the financial gain for the change, it doesn't make business sense. Period. Better = costs less overall. Period. "Less trouble for the tech guys" doesn't cut it. Neither does "but Firefox is more standards compliant!"
I always equivocate. Well, almost always.
No you fool! You apply an IE theme to FF and change it's icon and rename it to "Internet Explorer" (or "Porn" depending on what you normally call it).
Your average user would never know the difference.
A lot of large companies use a webapp called Siebel for customer relationship management (CRM). Not only is siebel the worst application that I've ever seen in 10 years of computer use (and I mean it's really, profoundly bad in every possible way), but Siebel itself uses some weird combination of ActiveX controls and Java applets that manages to ONLY work with a very specific version of IE running on a very specific version of Windows.
I know this because the place I work has been "upgrading" all the Win2K boxes to WinXP so that we can use siebel on them. They spent boatloads of money to both MS & Siebel on the upgrade, so yeah, they're probably not very eager to switch to a browser that will prevent them from using the most important part of their job (Siebel is the main system we use, there are a dozen or so peripheral systems that we use from time to time that may or may not work in FireFox as well).
Consumer's looking to spend money on linux-friendly businesses should probably be avoiding AT&T Wireless... Verizon and General Electric also use Siebel...
Having the boss 'try out' Firefox isn't working: a single site looks bad, so IE must be better.
Step 1: Remove Firefox
Step 2: Wait a few weeks
Step 3: Add an entry to his hosts file that directs this one site to a porn site. Better yet, update your local DNS to be authoritative for the domain of the site and set 'www.example.com' to the offending IP. (No evidence on the boss's machine, then)
Step 4: When he comes to you asking for help, tell him his Internet Explorer is infected. Make sure to say "I hope you haven't accessed your bank from this machine in the last few weeks or used a credit card - your information might have been stolen."
Step 5: Point out that this is one of the reasons why you want to move away from IE.
One caveat: Step 6 might involve getting fired if you get caught.
- Tony
IE being IE, if you leave him long enough with his machine using IE, he WILL get some kind of worm, virus, or what-have-you.
If he does, then you tell him how it happened. He'll lose his computer for a while while you fix it, and invariably ask "how can I keep this from happening again?" and you tell him.
If he does NOT, then your company's security in other areas is making up for IE's weaknesses, in which case good for you. Still, it might be a good idea to tally up how much money you're spending to protect IE users from themselves, assuming you would actually be spending a lot less if IE wasn't a concern.
And, at the end of the day, if his laptop isn't getting taken over by virii and such, and you can't make a good case for (a) saving money by switching, or (b) reducing non-boss employee downtime by switching...well, you don't really have a problem.
FWIW, I had the same problem convincing my wife to switch. Before her computer got infected, she was highly reluctant. After she lost her computer for a week until I had the time to fix it, she became a convert, and now uses FireFox exclusively.
1999 Free Software Advocate: It's not fair! I don't have a choice of browsers!
2004 Free Software Advocate: Don't give them a choice and they won't be able to use IE!
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
Just remove all shortcuts to IE and replace them with FF links.
*and* remember to name them to something obvious (such as "Internet Browser" o "Web Browser"). They might think "Firefox" is some kind of game.
No sig
And then when they next use what they think is IE they'll say "Oh Wow, Microsoft really improved their browser".
No, the best way is to make users aware of the problems with IE, and then show them how Firefox fixes those problems. The fact that open source coders respond to security flaws faster than coders who work on proprietary software is also an advantage.
PHBs don't think like that unfortunately. They think, "Microsoft is everywhere so it is the standard. Everything else is broken or not good enough." When one of their PHB friends talks about how cool moving over to Firefox was next time they are out playing golf instead of working, you'll get a memo telling you about this great new thing that he's found and insisting that you try it out and have it installed on his machine. Next thing you know, a committee will go away and do a cost/benefit analysis and within 12 to 18 months a document will be written recommending that it becomes corporate policy to only use Firefox. Three to four years later it will become policy, you'll get to install it, but it'll be a 2-year-old version full of bugs and security holes and lacking modern standards.
Stick Men
Find somebody decent in the Legal Dept. Quietly express concern that, expecially now that the U.S. Goverment has gone on record against using security-swiss-cheese IE, you might face professional liability - similar to an electrician who'd been pressured into doing something clearly dangerous that caused a fire.
Played right, this approach probably has a better chance than any other of getting a no-appeal "IE is banned" rule from on high.
It's easy to make up & spread cool- and credible-sounding stuff. Finding & checking hard facts is hard work.
OK, the whole reason folks want to switch from IE is because Microsoft isn't providing timely patches. However, I'm not sure if Mozilla is either -- Mozilla seems to be a "work in progress", which means that potential security problems are fixed in the development branch, but that does not affect the release schedule. And Firefox is still in beta stages and probably isn't being patched at all.
I read somewhere there's a remote hole in Moz 1.6 and FireFox 0.8. However, the advisory page doesn't list them, and hasn't been updated since November, so I don't know what to believe.
Furthermore, some milestone releases aren't totally stable or may behave differently. It would be very difficult for a corporate deployment to follow Mozilla's release schedule, especially if they had to test intranet apps etc.
I know that Mozilla security is not a huge real world problem yet, but maybe someone can clarify what exactly Mozilla's security patch policy really is.
(Also, you'll have to prepare to uninstall and reinstall the whole browser because there isn't a patch procedure, but that probably could be scripted.)
Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
As a power user, I use Firefox as my sole browser on every machine I own and use daily. That being said, as a network admin my network still uses IE as the primary browser for one reason, group policy. I work at a school, so managing Internet settings centrally and locking them down is a requirement. Until I can easily manage Firefox centrally and deploy custom pacakges, I will continue to use IE on my network.
We've never had a problem with IE, and we run an application-level firewall, so filtering the latest IE exploits is quite easy. Popup blocking is provided by the Google Toolbar. Spyware isn't a problem because my users don't run under a privledged account, and McAfee VirusScan 7 corporate picks up browser hijackers as viruses.
Switching to FireFox probably won't earn the company a lot of money. We all love FireFox, but whenever a major update comes out, every couple months, you'll probably have to completely delete the old FireFox off each machine, install the new one, and set it all up again. And they'll probably never encounter a website that won't work in IE, but they will see sites that will only work in IE. Every security decision comes with a price, and you have to justify every one of them financially.
As an open source advocate and an employee, it's important not to let your beliefs prevent you from giving advice that's in the best interests of the company. Your boss would probably appreciate a bigger range of recommendations, from adjusting IE's security options to autoupdate to of course installing a new browser and making it the default, or just doing nothing about the problem, in which case state the risks and give past examples of problems that have resulted in loss to the company. You'll probably want to mention Thunderbird for email, since it's also pretty secure, has built in spam blocking, and blocks external images (used to verify good addresses).
Where I work, a lot of us are using FireFox, but it's not a policy, people can still use IE, and the employers were already biased against MS to begin with.
And then when they next use what they think is IE they'll say "Oh Wow, Microsoft really improved their browser".
/. site somewhere with news stories like "Getting your techies to eat more vegetables and go outside" and people arguing about how to go about that and people saying "omg he drinks HOW many cups of coffee?? Well just tell him how bad it is for him and he will stop". Not going to happen really is it?
No, your average user is utterly oblivious to Microsoft and so on. They really really couldn't care less so long as "Hotmail works". They know that if they click on a blue icon that says "Internet Explorer" then they can look at porn and so on.
Case in point - I installed Firefox for my father recently - he got a PC about 2 years ago and is very much the sort of person who will install anything and click anywhere (while naturally insisting that he doesnt). I introduced him to the concept of spyware recently and installed Spybot, AdAware et al sold to him under the fact that people are "spying on him" (otherwise he wouldnt care). I went around to visit last Sunday and he told me that his spyware software was not working "because it doesnt pick anything up anymore where it used to find lots of stuff". The reason was because he now uses Firefox and literally can't get most spyware, however trying to explain this concept to him is difficult and I can see it just going over his head.
If average users did understand these things, then everyone would patch and keep things up to date and would have Firefox installed anyway but as we know this will never happen. In comparison it would be a bit like we techies limiting our computer use, not playing video games and playing sport and not eating ramen and so on because "someone in the news said it was good for us". I'm sure somewhere there will be an employee management oriented
Get yourself an ass-covering letter. Go to your boss and ask them to sign a letter which states that you, J Random Sysadmin, advised them to stop using Internet Explorer in favour of Firefox for reasons of security on suchandsuch a date.
Be serious about this - on the one hand, it might make your boss realise that you're not dicking about. And if he still refuses to switch, and you've got a signed letter, it might save your job some day.