Slashdot Mirror


The Political Games Surrounding Video Games

Rayonic writes "We all know the issue surrounding those who want to ban violent games, but a TechCentralStation editorial asks - can playing war games influence your political sensibilities? The media, for instance, are usually very ignorant of what goes on during military maneuvers. But a few days of playing Ghost Recon or America's Army might make you more knowledgeable than the average reporter (or even lawmaker), as the writer argues that 'the spread of military knowledge via wargaming might lead to political changes in the way war is perceived by Americans'."

16 of 95 comments (clear)

  1. Sounds familiar... by WinnipegDragon · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Maybe I'm being reactionary, but if 'playing war games can influenece you politcally', are you not opening yourself up to the slippery slope that ends with 'playing video games can make you violent'?

    Video games that people play tend to be a product of their leanings, not the other way around. People who like violence will play violent video games, and fantasy nerds (myself included) will play RPGs. In this case, people who play war games probably like strategy and tactics.

    Chalk this one up to the media looking for scapegoats and excuses to explain personal behaviours yet again.

    1. Re:Sounds familiar... by hal2814 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think this is the same thing. The political influence mentioned in the article is more like a court case where the jury once though one thing but in light of new evidence (which in this case may or may not be factual) they have changed their mind.

      The games-leads-to-violence scenario leads us to believe that upon initially watching a violent act we may feel one way but after seeing that act performed many times, we now think it is ok.

      So the real difference is more like "Oh, if that's how military operations are performed, I'm not so opposed to them." vs. "It's ok to kill because I see it in that game all the time." Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with changing your mind about a issue becasue you've researched the issue further, but I do wonder how accurate a viewpoint these people would be getting solely by playing video games.

  2. Substitute... by supercytro · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Substitute books, movies or television for games and you'll see how ridiculous the argument is.

    1. Re:Substitute... by WyerByter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, I pity you that you have never learned anything from a book, movie or television show that has changed your outlook on life and thus potentially changed your political views. Either your mind is closed, so open as to hold nothing or you chose material that does not challenge you preconcived notions.

      --

      This signiture copied from somewhere.
    2. Re:Substitute... by jocmaff · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I think the comment was more for saying that video games are not worse than any of the other items.

      They are certainly very violent items in books, movies and tv. heck just watch the news in the US if you want violence.

  3. I don't get it by I_Love_Pocky! · · Score: 3, Funny

    Does this mean that I will begin to believe that all wars are fought by 13 year olds?

  4. Right! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    After year of playing war based video games, I like Bush because he pwned teh Iraqi's. Hussein is teh Suxx0r!

  5. I think you missed the point of the article... by *weasel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Actually it sounds like this article is suggesting that realistic military games actually educate the gamers on what warfare is like.

    The thrust of the article is that political second-guessing of military strategy and reaction would be easily identifiable by such educated gamers. Educated gamers know that sending more troops to Iraq would not necessarily mitigate the dangers of roadside bombs and ambushes -- it'd simply present more targets. Also, they'd be more willing to judge the failure or success of a military engagement on the broader scope, and not just make a gut decision influenced by the most recently reported good or bad news.

    I don't know that such education could change a gamer's personal politics but, like any education, it certainly increases the accuracy of their BS detector.

    --
    // "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
    1. Re:I think you missed the point of the article... by *weasel · · Score: 3, Informative

      The context of that quote was at the strategic or tactical level.

      No-one suggested these games educate their players on the grotesqueries of war.

      It was the author's assumption that military video games provide a reasonable facsimile to actual military endeavors on the tactical levels. The US Armed Forces agrees with that to the tune of repeated lip service and continued funding into game-like tactical training tools, which increasingly find a civilian market.

      The games are thereby educating gamers, not to become soliders, but to understand maneuvers, the inevitability of accidents, and the scope of battle beyond typical war reporting.

      These games aren't going to prepare people to deal with the emotions of seeing friendly fire or civilian casualties. These games will simply prepare gamers to expect friendly fire and civilian casualties as being an inavoidable byproduct of war, and will allow them to understand how soldiers can make such tragic mistakes in the first place.

      The article is talking about wargamers political reactions to actual war reporting here. Not their abilities to personally function during actual war.

      --
      // "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
  6. I sure learn from video games. by LordPixie · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I remember back when that whole Elian Gonzalez debacle was busy...well, debacling. When the Feds finally came took him away at gunpoint, I recall looking at the infamous picture and saying "Hey, I recognize that gun from CounterStrike. That's an MP5 ! Quick, flashbang that sucker and cap him with your Desert Eagle !!!"

    Joking aside, games can be a source of factual information. Just like any other form of media. And any new information is going to influence your outlook on everything. Assuming you're actually capable of seperating the fact from the fiction, this is a good thing.


    --LordPixie

  7. I have experienced this by MobyDisk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Back in the day, I played Falcon 1 on my 8088, and later F-117A on my 386. Both games came with very full manuals detailing the planes and their respective armaments. I'm no military nut, but I loved these games for the manuals as much as the game play. To this day, I remember the range of an AIM-120 AMRAAM missile is 21 miles, and a Sidewinder is 7 miles (but more maneuverable).

    One day, A friend of mine in High School was trying to show-up his knowledge by quizzing me about military armaments. It was fun catching him off guard by answering him correctly and talking about how an F-16 could do an Immelmann while a mig-29 could not.

    Anyhow, that's my real-world example of legitimate learning via military video games. Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to return to shooting a guy wearing hoverboots with my BFG10000. Okay, maybe ALL military games aren't realistic :-)

  8. Wargames effect on the American population by JavaLord · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But a few days of playing Ghost Recon or America's Army might make you more knowledgeable than the average reporter (or even lawmaker), as the writer argues that 'the spread of military knowledge via wargaming might lead to political changes in the way war is perceived by Americans'."

    A few points about this.

    1. Games can also spread military disinformation. For example an AK in CS might have bad recoil, but the recoil isn't as bad as an AK in real life. I actually asked a friend in the military about this and he said the only real way to fire an AK accurately is to lay down with it. A far cry (no pun intended) from CS where an AK fires accurately for the first 1 to 2 shots no matter what. Of course, this doesn't make for good CS gameplay so realism is thrown away in the name of gameplay. Which is the way it should be, with the exception of America's Army, video games are ment to be fun first, realistic simulators second (or third, or not all).

    2. I think if anything games might desensitize people to war, or make war seem more glamourous. Sure you might play a war game where you storm a hut in Iraq full of insurgance but do you see the innocent people in the background who are hurt or killed? Maybe you work as a sniper, medic, or soldier in the game, but do you ever spend time rebuilding the enemies schools or water supplies? Do you ever face situations like the US soldiers do where most of the time you aren't shooting anything, but anyone can be a terrorist and if shoot the wrong person you don't just 'lose a frag', you might end up in a military court?

    War simulators IMO do not simulate the wars of today. They may be accurate portrayals of WWI and WWII where all the soldiers had to do was find and kill the bad guys which was anyone that was part of the "bad" country you are at war with. Wars nowadays almost always involve "nation building" which doesn't translate into fun video games.

    War games are just another genre of games. They are fun, but I wouldn't expect them to 'educate' the American public about war any more than I would expect the American public to become better drivers from playing Mario Kart or learn martial arts from playing Mortal Kombat.

    1. Re:Wargames effect on the American population by meta-monkey · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Have you played Full Spectrum Warrior for the XBox? I think it's probably the best war game I've ever played. Essentially, it's urban combat in a fictional middle eastern country. The game was originally developed as a training simulator for the U.S. Army, and then adapted for the general public. You control two four-man fireteams and move from cover to cover to eliminate threats. If you lose a soldier, you lose the game. If you kill a civilian, you lose the game. No, you don't see the "nation building" aspects quite so much, although there are instances where you, say, clear the way for a medical convoy trying to provide aid to civilians.

      I'm not sure if I could say it changed any of my political beliefs, though. I'm a Libertarian, I support the war in Iraq, and my wife just got out of the Army after nine years. I can say, though, that this game does not glamorize warfare. It's dirty, gritty, ugly, confusing, and unfair. If anything, it gives you a better idea of what soldiers really have to face out there. Of course, nothing can ever truly convey that except for being there, but I short of a holodeck I can't imagine a game doing a better job of it than this.

      Still, if you're at all interested in military video games, you absolutely must try Full Spectrum Warrior. If you don't have an XBox, it's supposed to be coming out for the PC soon.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  9. Re:Article is a troll against Democrats by JavaLord · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am a Democrat, and I enjoy violent video games as much as the next guy. In fact, if I had been asked to guess, I would have guessed the Republicans were against it.

    Republicans who haven't been hijacked by the religious right wouldn't care what video games you play either. Real republicans are for less government involvments, it's too bad there haven't been any real republicans in my lifetime. :)

    I'm sure congressmen and senators on both sides of the political platform are against violence in videogames. Why? It's a sexy issue to draw women voters to them. "Look we are protecting the CHILDREN!". They should focus their attention on eliminating violence/bullying in schools if they really want to protect children. Do they really think that colombine was cause by doom, or because two kids were teased until they couldn't take it anymore?

  10. Re:I think you missed my point... by ooby · · Score: 3, Insightful

    My take is that outside cases of brainwashing, exposure to any sort of media is unlikely to change one's personal beliefs and/or leanings, and that any argument stating otherwise is pretty much baseless on it's face.

    Suppose the son of man with Alzheimer's Disease is strongly against stem cell research. Suppose, then, that by reading a medical journal he learns that stem cell research may lead to a cure for the desease. What is the liklihood that the medical journal has changed his beliefs with regards to stem cell research?

  11. Re:I think you missed my point... by *weasel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You don't think exposure to material invokes a mental adjustment? Do we learn nothing from communication then? Novels, texts, plays, film, music, poetry -- these don't invoke mental adjustment?

    I'd agree that exposure to material doesn't invoke a subconscious adjustment (short of brainwashing, subliminal messaging, etc) - but that isn't quite what you said.

    The violence argument has always set out to suggest that the behavioral adjustment is subconscious and automatic. The political leaning argument (presented here for the first time that I've read) specifically denotes the necessary step of consciously applying knowledge gained from exposure to material to adjust views and behavior.

    The passive/active divide makes them quite distinct imo.

    --
    // "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"