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SpaceshipOne's Control Problem Fixed

Baldrson writes "Wired News reports that Rutan's team says they have gotten to the bottom of the June 21 flight anomalies that affected the first SpaceShipOne sub-orbital flight: 1) A control surface actuator had run against a stop limiting its movement, and 2) Wind shear caused the 90-degree roll shortly after rocket ignition. Rutan also said with the problems now identified, the next time SpaceShipOne flies, it will be to win the prize."

75 of 230 comments (clear)

  1. JC by Avada+Kedavra · · Score: 2

    So Carmack and the Armadillo gang are out of the running?

    1. Re:JC by MrBlue+VT · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's doubtful that they could get their big vehicle together and working by the end of the year. John has said if Rutan fails they might make a push (ie, work on it more than the current 2 days a week and evenings) to get done by the end of the year for an attempt.

      According to John there is no other team even close, and I believe him.

    2. Re:JC by grozzie2 · · Score: 4, Informative
      I'll grant they are doing some interesting and probably fun playing with rocket engines. But, the X-Prize is about building a manned craft to go to into space. They have done basically zero vehicle design for the high altitude supersonic flight regimes required to achieve that. They have spent all thier time and effort fiddling with rocket engines basically.

      Serious X-Prize contenders realized early on, there's a lot of rocket technology available 'for sale' out there. They bought rocket engines, and concentrated on the difficult part of the engineering problems, the vehicle to get into space and back.

      There's 2 teams that have a chance of actually completeing the X-Prize flights this year. It's interesting, Scaled has used the 'all aerodymanic' approach, with a mothership for first stage lifting to get above troposphere. Da Vinci project is 'all ballistic' with a mothership to provide first stage lift above troposphere.

      Scaled is currently the odds on favorite to achive the X-Prize flights first. They have a really good chance, they have all the flight hardware, and it's been thru rigorous testing. Still, manned space flight is HARD (just check with Nasa for reference), and it's NOT a given that the SS1 + WK combination can complete 2 more flights without incident. A serious incident with either vehicle, and Scaled will be out of the running for the X-Prize, there isn't time left to replace either of them.

      Da Vinci project has flight tested engines, but, they have yet to flight test an all up final configuration. They have the permits in place, and, the hardware is built. They are expected to start flight testing within the next 6 weeks.

      Armadillo, well, they are tinkering with rockets, and writing a blog about it. They dont have a vehicle to mount an all up configuation rocket in, and they dont have a design to build one from. The X-Prize must be claimed this year, and Armadillo hasn't even got a vehicle design yet. No, they are not in the running, and have no hope of being in the running. If you haven't done the engineering analysis on a design, to validate it should be capable of withstanding the launch/recovery portions of the flight, and got the hardware built, ready to fly this summer, you are not in the running for the X-Prize. No matter how much money you throw at it, you are not going to design/build that package in the next 4 months, and if it's not flight ready in 4 months, you cant meet the requirements for winning the X-Prize.

  2. Re:Wind Shear by zackeller · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When you're designing a space ship thats primary goal is to get it only to the edges of space, wind shear is one of your top priorities.

  3. I don't know what their problem is. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    MY spaceship wasn't affected by wind shear.

    1. Re:I don't know what their problem is. by Saven+Marek · · Score: 4, Funny

      MY spaceship wasn't affected by wind shear.

      Sure, take the easy way out winning the xprize by launching 100km up from the moon

      free trust_based image hosteing

  4. I don't get it ... by Tensor · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The article says that the problems were caused by:
    "the actuator delayed moving one of the ship's flaps because it "had run against a stop," limiting its movement."

    Isn't the WHOLE purpose of the stop to limit movement? or was the stop jarred loose and was stopping movement when it wasn't supposed to ?

    1. Re:I don't get it ... by RollingThunder · · Score: 3, Informative

      That could mean that it whacked into the stop pretty hard, and then couldn't return. They're not saying which direction the movement was limited in. :)

    2. Re:I don't get it ... by frankmu · · Score: 5, Funny

      Rutan probably had to change the dial from "10" to "11"

      --
      Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
  5. Good idea by no1here · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Rutan's plan to have 3 flights within 2 weeks is a good idea. That way they have an even better chance of winning the prize. It's something I never thought of before.

  6. And without co-op students, no less! by westendgirl · · Score: 4, Funny

    According to Scaled's Careers page, "We are sorry but Scaled is unable to hire Summer interns or Co-op students." I didn't think any high tech companies could cope without co-ops and interns!

    --

    -- SYS 64738 --

    1. Re:And without co-op students, no less! by bsartist · · Score: 4, Funny

      But... but... but... who makes the coffee? You can't tell me they're doing this without coffee. Three flights in two weeks I can believe - but engineers without coffee is just crazy talk.

      --
      Lost: Sig, white with black letters. No collar. Reward if found!
    2. Re:And without co-op students, no less! by cynic10508 · · Score: 5, Funny

      According to Scaled's Careers page, "We are sorry but Scaled is unable to hire Summer interns or Co-op students." I didn't think any high tech companies could cope without co-ops and interns!

      Huh? They have an intern program. Go to the Jobs section, then look under "Ballast".

    3. Re:And without co-op students, no less! by appleLaserWriter · · Score: 4, Funny

      High techs *love* co-ops and interns. It is like paying people with stock options, except you don't have to worry about the share dilution.

    4. Re:And without co-op students, no less! by karstux · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I certainly wouldn't mind being ballast on ther X-Prize flights...

      --
      Don't whistle while you're pissing.
  7. Re:Wind Shear by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 5, Funny

    No, not first, but it gets list somewhere I'm shure. At least for any craft that has to deal with atmosphere.

    Me first thing I worry about is the Huge laser cannons and force shields. That and a seat for cute blue space chick.
    Maybe this is why NASA hasn't called back.

    Mycroft

    --
    https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
  8. Simple Process by nasor · · Score: 4, Funny

    "1) A control surface actuator had run against a stop limiting its movement, and 2) Wind shear caused the 90-degree roll shortly after rocket ignition. Rutan also said with the problems now identified, the next time SpaceShipOne flies, it will be to win the prize."

    So I guess it's:

    1. Fix control surface actuator
    2. Fix wind shear problem
    3. Profit!

    1. Re:Simple Process by SlashdotLemming · · Score: 4, Funny

      Reminds me of how I write software

      1. Write code
      2. Proclaim success!
      3. Prof... err, wait, some bugs
      4. Fix code
      5. Proclaim success!
      6. Prof... err, wait, some bugs
      7. Fix code
      8. Proclaim success!
      9. Prof... err, wait, some bugs
      ...

    2. Re:Simple Process by el-spectre · · Score: 5, Funny

      I've often defined programming as the process of thinking "Oh, I am a GOD!!" and then "Jesus, how stupid can I be", several times an hour :)

      --
      "Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
    3. Re:Simple Process by zuzulo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I think you forgot the most important part of the development process. So my general software development proceedure tends to look more like -

      1. Write code
      2. Proclaim success!
      3. Prof... err, wait, some bugs
      4. Fix code
      5. Proclaim success!
      6. Prof... err, wait, some bugs
      7. Customer or Management changes requirements
      8. goto 1.
      9. Profit!

      Maybe I should debug my development methodology, seeing as I never seem to get to step 9.

      The cool thing about the xprize is that it provides a fixed milestone for private companies to shoot for in a fixed timeframe.

      I am a big fan of the private 'prize' process, and think that with the success of the xprize we should figure out how to offer a slew of additional prizes to continue to stimulate private space efforts.

      I am somewhat surprized that there are not more prizes offered for solutions to hard problems in other areas. Seems like a cheap way for folks to get researchers motivated.

      Why not start a non-profit foundation whose sole purpose is to offer bounties with well defined acceptance criteria for a whole range of technical challenges? Any philanthropic and technically oriented billionaires up for the challenge? ;-)

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    4. Re:Simple Process by FireFury03 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I am a big fan of the private 'prize' process, and think that with the success of the xprize we should figure out how to offer a slew of additional prizes to continue to stimulate private space efforts.

      I think (hope?) that once the X-Prize has been won, there will be another prize put up for the first private flight into orbit, since that's the next big milestone in commercial spaceflight. Or maybe a prize for the first suborbital space flight to the other side of the planet - there are big applications for suborbital space flight as a replacement for normal air travel since once you get our of the atmosphere going hypersonic is much easier.

      I must admit that I didn't realise the prize expired at the end of this year though - that kinda puts a lot of pressure on everyone.

    5. Re:Simple Process by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Isn't that the process of going to a brothel?

  9. See headlines now... by eamacnaghten · · Score: 5, Funny
    I can see the headlines - SpaceShipOne flies into space - passenger lands safetly near launch site...

    His luggage lands in Africa somewhere...

    --

    Web Sig: Eddy Currents

    1. Re:See headlines now... by bsartist · · Score: 4, Funny

      The modders are trained to mod down posts that vibrate. They ignore posts that tick; modern trolls vibrate. They're careful never to imply ownership; in the case of a troll they refer to it as "a troll", never "your troll".

      --
      Lost: Sig, white with black letters. No collar. Reward if found!
    2. Re:See headlines now... by hanssprudel · · Score: 4, Funny

      One of the funniest dialogs in a film, ever:

      Narrator: Was it ticking?
      Airport Security Officer: Actually throwers don't worry about ticking 'cause modern bombs don't tick.
      Narrator: Sorry, throwers?
      Airport Security Officer: Baggage handlers. But, when a suitcase vibrates, then the throwers gotta call the police.
      Narrator: My suitcase was vibrating?
      Airport Security Officer: Nine times out of ten it's an electric razor, but every once in a while...
      [whispering]
      Airport Security Officer: it's a dildo. Of course it's company policy never to, imply ownership in the event of a dildo... always use the indefinite article "a dildo", never "your dildo".
      Narrator: I don't own...

  10. Passengers by femto · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I reckon Scaled Composites could almost make more than the value of the X-Prize if they offered those two empty seats for sale. It's almost worth starting a fake ebay auction just to see what price is reached!

    1. Re:Passengers by Ruprecht+the+Monkeyb · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They probably can't. I suspect there would be a whole other set of FAA hoops they'd have to jump through to take paying 'passengers'. Not to mention insurance issues.

    2. Re:Passengers by EABird · · Score: 3, Interesting

      IANAL but... I think the closest applicable set of regulations would be within FAR (US Title 14) Part 135 and 91. If the service was provided under either part, the regulations are not extreme, and as I see it, could be construed to allow a part 135 or part 91 operator (with a commercial certificate and currency requirements) to provide the service with minimal hoops. As I see it, the most difficult parts would be the clearance to climb through the Class A airspace between 18,000 and 60,000 ft, the waiver to exceed the speed of sound, and the request for a NOTAM to clear the area for a space flight.

    3. Re:Passengers by Ruprecht+the+Monkeyb · · Score: 2, Interesting

      IANALORAPFTM (...or a pilot for that matter). I was think more of 135.25 regarding whether the vehicles had the right certifications.

  11. Chaos and Unpredictability by KitFox · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Nothing is really guarenteed to be perfect. The fact that there are factors that are beyond our control and completely unpredictable means that there is always a chance that something will go wrong. Fixing it and trying to make sure it doesn't go wrong again is all fine and everything, but there is always that probability factor that we cannot detect, calculate, or control.

    I am just quite glad that they had the backup system, because that is what prevented a catastrophy. If there is a x% chance that the primary system will fail, and x% that the backup will fail, combined it makes the chances of a catastrophy much lower.

    I believe that if we are going to be successful at a private space race, or even any other high-risk things (Even lacking risk to human life), then redundancy and backup is definitely critical. If a few failed heat tiles can destroy a space craft and kill people, and there is no contingency plan for failed heat tiles, that is a problem. If a computer miscalculation in Metric vs English measurements can completely throw off a multibillion-dollar space probe, and there is no way to recover when the error is first detected and has not yet caused problems, then that is just not right.

    I look forward to seeing if they win the prize, and I applaud them for having contingencies. If more systems had contigencies for the most critical failures, we'd possibly be much further ahead in various technologies. Let's see how this space race goes.

    --

    @Whee

    1. Re:Chaos and Unpredictability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There is a lot to be said for redundancy. There is a lot to be said for redundancy. [duplication intended...]

      But I think there is even more to be said for simplicity.

      Fortunately both are signature attributes of Burt Rutan.

    2. Re:Chaos and Unpredictability by MadCow42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Redundancy also has a cost - added cost, added weight, added complexity, added development time.

      The X-prize competitors probably will have SIGNIFICANTLY less redundancy than any NASA craft would ever have (triple redundancy is normal in spaceflight), but they'll also be cheaper, lighter, and faster-to-completion. The associated risks are ones that government-run institutions just wouldn't take.

      So, by putting the competition to the public instead of trying to achieve the same thing through NASA/etc. they're able to test riskier technologies quicker and cheaper - resulting in more significant technological advancement.

      The risks are great... but they're being taken by individuals that have weighed them and accept them, not a government that's accountable to it's populace.

      My meaningless 0.02.
      MadCow.

      --
      I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
  12. Re:another trip == couns:? by MrBlue+VT · · Score: 5, Informative

    The trip they made on the 21st of June did not count at all for the X-Prize. It did go past 100 km, but it did not have the additional weight necessary to simulate two passengers. Basically it was just another test flight. What was significant about it in a historical perspective is that this is the first time a privately owned company has put a man in space. Thus, they yet to even do the first of two flights required by the X-Prize.

  13. some questions by BelugaParty · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Paul Allen is worth more than a small country and he is funding Scaled Composites. If SC actually wins the X-Prize, will it really be a spectacular gain for space flight?

    NASA, on some level, is really an organization for several major and minor companies, why would it be ruled out of the prize?

    Will commercializing spaceflight be a step forward for space research? Why is it that when companies step into public domain scientific fields the results are inevitably viagra when there is still no cure for cancer, aids... etc. Public grants and public institutions (Nations and Universities) are still the bedrock for pure scientifc research. I only see economic and superficial consumerism inspired by the x-prize.

    What do you think?

    1. Re:some questions by ron_ivi · · Score: 4, Interesting
      "Will commercializing spaceflight be a step forward for space research? ... when companies step in...the results are inevitably viagra when there is still no cure... etc. "
      Because recreational drugs like viagra and alchohol are more valued (practically by definition - they measure this value with their paychecks) by people than the hard-to-make-and-not-very-effective treatments for difficult to cure diseases.

      Similarly, Space Tourism has the potential to benefit many many people compared to the handful of astronauts who got to golf on the moon so far.

      " Public grants and public institutions (Nations and Universities) are still the bedrock for pure scientifc research. I only see economic and superficial consumerism inspired by the x-prize. "
      Public grants fund wierd artwork too. The outcome of both efforts (pure research and wierd artwork) is of direct interest to a pretty small class of people. I'm not saying it's a bad thing; just not wide-reaching.

      "NASA, on some level, is really an organization for several major and minor companies, why would it be ruled out of the prize?"

      Because NASA is doing it by taking other people's money. If NASA needed 10 more million, they have channels to ask for it. Scaled is doing it with their own.

    2. Re:some questions by amcox · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why is it that when companies step into public domain scientific fields the results are inevitably viagra when there is still no cure for cancer, aids... etc. Public grants and public institutions (Nations and Universities) are still the bedrock for pure scientifc research. I only see economic and superficial consumerism inspired by the x-prize.

      This is why it's so distressing that the research aspect of major universities has recently been driven more and more toward economic gain. Presidents and boards are seeing the hard sciences as a way to get patents and generate cash, not as a public service or even as goal worthy of persuing just for the sake of knowladge. Maybe science will have to move in the direction of open source as well, like these argiriculturalists have done.

    3. Re:some questions by BelugaParty · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I really don't agree with you at all.


      Viagra is of almost no social benefit. Treatments for cancer save millions of lives around the world each year. Yes they are hard to make (at the moment) and are not always effective and have side effects, but this is exactly why money and effort should be put in this direction. While it may not reap huge economic benefit in the short term, saving lives will help the economies in the long term.


      I don't see how pure research is related to "weird artwork". Pure research underlies most facets of modern society. If the unique properties of semi-conductors weren't researched and catalogued computers wouldn't exist.


      NASA, like Scaled Composites, has to present it's projects/budgets/plans to boards of directors (congress), investors (governments, other space agencies). The money isn't just handed over... there was time when it was, and that was the time of its highest inefficiency; but this wasn't just because it was government owned and operated, it was because private contractors knew a fat wallet when they saw one and tried to get as much money as they could.

    4. Re:some questions by ocelotbob · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Of course, you realize that viagara was a side effect of heart research, right? Seems that medication that was intended to help an ailing cardiovascular system also managed to give men's little friends a little pick me up, and the rest is history. Just because something is marketed doesn't mean that a corporation is all about making money.

      --

      Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses

    5. Re:some questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Viagra is of almost no social benefit. Treatments for cancer save millions

      Both contributed a certain number of man-hours-of-happyness to the world. I'd say that's a social benefit.

      While it may not reap huge economic benefit in the short term, saving lives will help the economies in the long term.

      I bet more healty productive lives were created by Viagra than were saved by cancer drugs. But to me the long term economic benefit seems such a wierd way of measuring the social good of Viagra vs Gemzar I'm not sure where you are going with that argument.

      Both are economically successful commercial products, and both help overpopulate the world.

      "I don't see how pure research is related to "weird artwork"."

      Both are federally funded, and both appeal to a very limited subset of the population.

      If the unique properties of semi-conductors weren't researched and catalogued computers wouldn't exist.

      That's hardly "pure research" - it's mostly "applied research" done by commercial companies for commercial goals.

    6. Re:some questions by 59Bassman · · Score: 3, Informative
      Will commercializing spaceflight be a step forward for space research? Why is it that when companies step into public domain scientific fields the results are inevitably viagra when there is still no cure for cancer, aids... etc. Public grants and public institutions (Nations and Universities) are still the bedrock for pure scientifc research. I only see economic and superficial consumerism inspired by the x-prize.

      Cancer and aids research is ongoing. It hasn't stopped. But it's a tough nut to crack, obviously. Also, realize that if a cure for cancer is ever found, governments and private citizens around the world are going to scream that the drug should be given away for free. Some may threaten to allow their country's companies to reverse-engineer the drug and sell it cheaper if the inventor's don't play along. If the successful inventor stands their ground (as they'll be ordered to do by shareholders - remember this is likely a public FOR PROFIT company), there will be expose's on 20/20 about the evil corporate drug giants who hold life in their hands and won't dole it out...

      It's a no-win situation. Dump millions into cancer research only to be called evil for attempting a return on investment. Or don't spend millions on cancer research and be called evil for not doing it.

      Believe it or not, drugs like Viagra provide a valuable benefit to men who've survived prostate cancer. Figure it out if you like, but the fact is that Viagra is a life-enhancing drug for a lot of people. Is making life for large numbers a bit better that much less meaningful than curing cancer for a relatively smaller number of people?

      I personally believe that the commercialization of space flight is a good thing. Part of why NASA's long range probes have been so successful (and cost effective) in recent years has been the use of COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) parts. Much easier to do than developing everything in-house. Imagine if you were able to buy the pieces to build a viable space vehicle - NASA's costs should come down, and the amount of space exploration should increase.

      Plus, there are likely scientific advancements that will come about simply because of cheapening space travel. I know that the semiconductor industry will probably get a boost if it gets cheap enough to do large-scale MBE (Molecular Beam Epitaxy) in space - right now it's really inefficient on earth due to the vacuum equipment needed to pull it off.

    7. Re:some questions by dpilot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >viagra vs cancer drugs...

      When you discover you've got cancer, which are you going to want to buy?

      >Space Tourism ... benefit

      Watch the word 'benefit'. Space tourism itself will have little benefit to society, other than to make a few people happy. It's merely a bigger handful than the really small handful of astronauts. The 'benefit' of space tourism to society will be in opening up economy-of-scale for space travel, so that in time we can actually DO something up there. For one, perhaps move environmentally ugly things off of Earth, like mining asteroids, solar power satellites, etc.

      >pure research and weird (not wierd) artwork
      I'm not going to touch the weird artwork, but that pure research is only of interest to a small class of people TODAY. I'll compare pure research to venture capital. In a normal market, fund 10 companies. 7 will go bust, 2 will do so-so, and 1 will be a Winner. Maybe 70% of pure research turns out to be utter drek, maybe 20% makes some improvement, but just look at that 10%. The problem is, you can't always tell what that 10% is when you start, just like venture capital. I've read one report that part of our economic doldrums in the face of outsourcing is that venture capitalists are sitting on money until they can figure out and ONLY invest in that winning 10%. They're not doing their job, which is helping others discover what the 10% really is.

      As far as "other peoples' money," some of that money is mine. There are many things the government takes MY money for, and NASA is one of the smaller ones. I'd rather see that money go to NASA than many of the things it does go to.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    8. Re:some questions by AGMW · · Score: 2, Informative
      Identify impotence as a problem

      Actually, you are doing Pfizer somewhat of a disservice here. They were actually looking into drugs to be used during heart surgery, specifically drugs to be used to lower blood pressure during same.

      During some trials an interesting side effect was noticed. I expect there were some happy happy people.

      FYI & FWIW For those interested, high blood pressure is often a cause of impotence (though many might incorrectly argue that a higher pressure might be useful!). Of course, stress causes high blood pressure, and not being able to get (or retain) an erection causes stress! My but men are just a big mixed up bag of emotions!

      The problem is that the muscles that restrict blood flow out of the penis are overwhelmed by the excessive blood pressure, and the erection subsides, or is never present. Along comes this wonder-drug for lowering blood pressure during heart surgery, and, as a side effect, it also lowers the pressure so that those handy muscles can retain the blood in the penis and hence keep (or allow) an erection.

      --
      Eclectic beats from Leeds, UK
      handmadehands.co.uk
    9. Re:some questions by freqres · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think this has great potential with the overweight 'epidemic' happening in the developed world as well. Instead of counting calories, Atkins, Hershey's Syrup & mashed potato diet, etc., we can ship the fat people to the moon or other low gravity settlement and they can live like Baron Harkonnen from Dune.

      --
      Rampant Ninja related crimes these days...Whitehouse is not the exception
    10. Re:some questions by Teancum · · Score: 5, Informative

      This is utter BS.

      NASA was started to consolidate flight research centers. They were scattered in several agencies, although the NCA, widely considered the predecessor to NASA, did operate many of them. With the importation of V-2 rockets from Germany (with a little help from the U.S. Amry going in and taking the rockets by force) rocket research really started to get into high gear. This is where the term "rocket scientist" really came into its own, because before that a rocket scientist was a crazy lunatic like Goddard or Oberth who loved to blow things up.

      Both the U.S. Navy and the U.S. Army got into a competition (not with Russia, but with each other) trying to see who could develop these rockets first and claim supremacy on their use. This was no different than what these two military branches did with aircraft just a mere 20 years earlier, including several officers who were involved with the early testing of military aircraft. Both the Navy and the Army Air Corp (later reorganized as the U.S. Air Force) launched thousands of rockets, learning quite a bit regarding how to build them, how to handle them, and what they really could be used for (in addition to putting a nuke on the top of them... that was obvious even to Hitler during WWII).

      Later on, particularly after Sputnik achieved orbit, the Eisenhower Administration looked around and saw three competing space programs in the U.S. government. That was the Army, Navy, and a very anemic NCA which was a civilian program. What happened was a transfer of many of the people involved with the Army and Navy programs to the NCA, which was then renamed to become NASA. The parallels with what happened after 9/11 to form the TSA and the Dept. of Homeland Security can compared to how NASA was formed, and this is almost typical knee jerk reaction by Congress.

      Because most of the working rocketry projects were already military, NASA took on a military flavor. And of course since many NASA personnel still had connections to the military, those people involved still tried to push goals that would benefit their respective armed services for weapons research. It paid off with the missile programs that are still maintained by the Air Force and Navy, which I guess was your "thinly veiled military control of the program".

      NASA was concieved as a civilian-run agency from the beginning because it was obvious to everybody involved that spaceflight would take on aspects that were clearly non-military as well. In addition to trying to sell the program to the American people by trying to give ordinary citizens a "stake" in the program, there was an implied concept that commercial interests would also get involved. AT&T built one of the first commercial satellites (Telestar) and even paid for the whole thing out of their own pocket, including the rocket construction and the salaries of most of the ground crew (by contract through NASA) to get the thing up into space. What happened to kill the Telestar program should speak volumes for what was to come from NASA and is still an issue today.

      The big push to seriously expand NASA occured during the Kennedy administration, where JFK was litterally reading some science fiction books, and got a sort of stary-eyed vision about where NASA could go. It was entirely his idea to get astronauts to the moon, and to push for NASA to become even more under civilian control. This was when the second batch of astronauts was announced, and included for the first time civilians like Neil Armstrong who did not hold military rank.

      Regarding Columbia: You are doing a huge disservice to the memory of those astronauts to even repeat a wild rumor that has no basis in fact. While there are many things I can complain about regarding how NASA dealt with Columbia, it was not an intentional and deliberate action to kill astronauts. If that were the case, there would be no astronaut corp left at NASA, and they more than anybody else would know more about those issues than any tin-hat conspiracy

    11. Re:some questions by jdavidb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Space tourism itself will have little benefit to society, other than to make a few people happy.

      On the contrary, space tourism is an excellent way to transfer money out of the hands of those rich enough to afford it and pump it into the economy. It's like a voluntary tax! If this industry takes off it could create many new jobs, technical jobs like we slashdotters like, here on our shores. How exactly is this a problem?

      Besides, we (virtually) don't get a say in it, anyway. Frankly, people have the right to spend their money on what they want to. If they want to blow $20 mil on a few moments in space, that's their prerogative. If an insanely rich person wants to fund expeditions into space with new equipment in addition to what NASA is already doing, it's his money, and what could be wrong with that? If you saved for something you really wanted that was expensive, how would you like it if suddenly the world was trying to tell you what you were spending was a waste?

      I'd rather see that money go to NASA than many of the things it does go to.

      I'm sure both NASA and the SpaceShipOne project would happily accept any private donations you have to offer, if you believe in it that much.

  14. Re:Wind Shear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You should have been there for the first flight. I'm amazed that they got it off at all. The winds overnight were 40+ MPH on the ground (blew over 4 of the 7 porta-potties in the campground area on the airport grounds). They calmed down for the 6:30AM launch, but it was easy to see from the contrails behind the aircraft above that there was still a lot of wind up there.

  15. Space age by ottffssent · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Best of luck to all involved, Scaled Composites and others. I would love to see the Information Age give way to the Space Age and humanity crawl from the cradle of Earth.

  16. Re:Wind Shear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I am a pilot, albeit an ordinary private pilot and not a spaceship pilot. I began flying in the 1970s around the time that "wind shear" first started to be considered as the possible cause of certain kinds of accidents. Although the phenomenon is real, for a while it became somewhat notorious as one of those "catch all" explanations that get hauled out when someone can't really figure out what happened. So when I hear it blamed in a conclusory way for something weird, without a good explanation for why it should apply, I get skeptical.

    The deal with wind shear is this. Ordinarily, airplanes move within moving masses of air and get carried along by them. This is no big deal except that it affects navigation (e.g., even though your nose is pointed north, you might really be tracking northeast because you are within a mass of air moving from west to east). Moving masses of air don't ordinarly affect the airplane in an "aerodynamic" sense because what matters is how the plane is moving relative to that mass of air, not relative to the ground. Wind shear occurs because there are often distinct boundaries between different masses of air that are moving in different directions or at different speeds. Hitting a wind shear boundary can be an issue because due to inertia (or momentum, whatever you prefer to call it), the plane does not instantly make the transition to the new conditions, so its situation changes temporarily relative to the air. But it's only scary when the extent of the change is greater than the aerodynamic limits for your airplane and your present attitude.

    For example, if you are flying at just five knots above stall speed, and you hit a boundary that has an abrupt ten knot difference in the wrong direction, it can pull the rug out from under you. But if you're flying at normal cruising speed, that same difference just causes a little turbulence. So to have a critical problem with wind shear you need both factors -- being near one of your aerodynamic limits (stall speed, red line, whatever) PLUS hitting a boundary that emphasizes the change in air movement in the WRONG direction for that limit.

    So the reason I am skeptical is that Rutan gives no explanation for how exactly wind shear caused the loss of control. Was the ship being operated near its stall speed? Was the wind shear differential totally huge? Was the ship in a weird attitude (high bank angle or something) that reduced its tolerance to changes in airspeed? And is there any meteorologic evidence of any big wind shear conditions at that place and time? Otherwise, it is just wishful thinking that he has an explanation for this?

  17. Impressive by Mark_MF-WN · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The fact that there are TWO teams within striking distance of the prize is pretty impressive. These are interesting times we're living in.

    Between the private space-flight, a entire space station (built internationally no less), and the possibility of a space elevator, humankind really is heading for the stars!

    1. Re:Impressive by EnglishTim · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I wouldn't really class Jon's team as close. Sure, they're definitely getting there, but the highest controlled flight they've done was only 131 feet high with a subscale model. Several of the other teams could have done the same thing and we'd never know about it - its just that Armadillo are very open about their progress.

      Actually, that's one of the things I really admire about Armadillo Aerospace - they've kept very little to themselves - anybody with some money, patience and skill could get going quite quickly by learning from the Armadillo website.

    2. Re:Impressive by grozzie2 · · Score: 3, Informative
      I wouldn't really class Jon's team as close.

      Nobody considers Armadillo anywhere near close. The other team that's close is Da Vinci project. They are the only other team that's actually got hardware constructed with any amount of testing (photos) done on it. Thier schedule calls for the first sub-orbital test flights in august of this year, and they are the only X-Prize team other than scaled actually planning to fly this summer. they are also the only other team that has minor details like launch permits etc all wrapped up.

    3. Re:Impressive by jscharla · · Score: 2, Informative

      There's also the Canadian Arrow that starts test flights next month. As a Canadian myself, I'm very happy that both Canadian teams are poised to actually make attempts by the end of the year. O Canada!

      --
      Save the whales... Collect the whole set.
    4. Re:Impressive by Rei · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have to concur. Armadillo is way off - reading their test diary makes this quite clear. I really have to question their design philosophy. While I'm not fond of cryogenic fuels (especially LOX/LH), peroxide as an oxidizer is no simple task. The stabilizing chemicals tend to ruin your catalysts. The way to get around this is what the Germans did - inject ample liquid catalysts into the fuel that you burn with peroxide as the oxidizer.

      Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, Armadillo isn't even using a fuel - it looks to be a straight peroxide rocket, as I haven't seen them mention a fuel since May 2003. So, not only do you have a chemical that's hard to work with, you have a very low ISP, too. I'd never dream of going that route. Not that I think that Rutan's choice of fuel and oxidizer are all that incredible (why on earth NO3 as an oxidizer???), but they're better.

      Also, vaned thrust deflection instead of gimballing, while it may look great on paper, just seems like a problem waiting to happen, as far as rockets go. It's no shock that they've been having big problem with that system... it's fine for jet engines, but with rocket engines, you're dealing with far more intense, far hotter exhaust in a high vibration environment. Also, vaned thrust deflection loses more energy than gimballing due to drag, which is something that they just can't afford, especially with a monopropellant rocket.

      In short, I don't much care for their design.

      --
      GIVE US THE CUTTLEFISH!
    5. Re:Impressive by georgewilliamherbert · · Score: 3, Informative
      General comment: Please read more before posting.

      I have to concur. Armadillo is way off - reading their test diary makes this quite clear. I really have to question their design philosophy. While I'm not fond of cryogenic fuels (especially LOX/LH), peroxide as an oxidizer is no simple task. The stabilizing chemicals tend to ruin your catalysts. The way to get around this is what the Germans did - inject ample liquid catalysts into the fuel that you burn with peroxide as the oxidizer.

      Armadillo was using high purity non-stabilized peroxide up until roughly a year ago. It does not need injected liquid catalysts: just using silver and platinum, or various other solid catalysts, works just fine.

      Now, Armadillo is using a mixture of 50% unstabilized peroxide and methanol. It has about the same energy per unit mass/volume as 90% peroxide does, but is a fraction of the cost and handling issues of 90% plus unstabilized peroxide. Still a monopropellant, but very much simpler and cheaper.

      Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, Armadillo isn't even using a fuel - it looks to be a straight peroxide rocket, as I haven't seen them mention a fuel since May 2003. So, not only do you have a chemical that's hard to work with, you have a very low ISP, too. I'd never dream of going that route.

      Please read harder. Armadillo has been describing their rocket motors in detail repeatedly.

      Isp is not everything. For a first stage, density impulse is much more important. And for a non orbital rocket vehicle, handling and ease of design and construction are also very important.

      Amateurs talk Isp; Professionals start with density impulse and then system design tradeoffs on the overall vehicle; Experts talk development cost and timeline to get vehicles that meet the minimum requirements flying successfully.

      Not that I think that Rutan's choice of fuel and oxidizer are all that incredible (why on earth NO3 as an oxidizer???), but they're better.

      Not NO3. N2O; Nitrous Oxide.

      Why? It's not a bad oxidizer, that's why. It has less oxygen than LOX or peroxide or nitrogen tetroxide or nitric acid, true. But like peroxide and hydrazine, it's got internal energy, so when it starts to react the dissassociation adds energy to the reactions. That evens it out. Nitrous is decent overall performance and self pressurizing, which none of the other oxidizers are.

      Also, vaned thrust deflection instead of gimballing, while it may look great on paper, just seems like a problem waiting to happen, as far as rockets go. It's no shock that they've been having big problem with that system... it's fine for jet engines, but with rocket engines, you're dealing with far more intense, far hotter exhaust in a high vibration environment. Also, vaned thrust deflection loses more energy than gimballing due to drag, which is something that they just can't afford, especially with a monopropellant rocket.

      Again: Specific Impulse is not everything. It's a lot simpler, safer, easier to develop a vanes system than a fully gimballing motor. Less mass is moving, no propellant lines are moving.

      Real rocket innovators have been looking at jet vanes on and off continuously for the last decade. Most chose to go another direction, but they are not a bad choice for certain sets of vehicle design and development assumptions. Carmack's group called that one right: it is a good choice for their vehicle and their development program.

      In short, I don't much care for their design.

      Well, fine, but at the very least you could read up on the actual details and see what other people who actually know something about rocket design think about it.

      I would never have developed exactly their vehicle, however, Armadillo are making incremental good choices and have a clue about both ultimate performance and doing development on

  18. Great, but... by 91degrees · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This just an altitude record. Not a space flight! There's only so much you can do in suborbital. If you just want to get up there to launch a satellite, then you might as well simply use a big missile, and put the effort into recovering the lower stages.

    When they manage to get to 3 times that altitude, then its time to be impressed.

    1. Re:Great, but... by FleaPlus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even when one ignores the potential billions of dollars in the suborbital tourism market, this also opens the door for intercontinental spaceflights. Even if they don't go into orbit, it still lets people get around the globe quite fast ("one hour from New York to Tokyo") without having to worry about things like sonic booms along their path. Such intercontinental spaceflights are a nice transition to orbital flights.

      Even if that's not enough to impress you, it certainly fills me with amazement.

    2. Re:Great, but... by foniksonik · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "If you just want to get up there to launch a satellite" which has been done to death if you ask me.... I mean how many countries and companies already do this regularly, OH WAIT!

      The prize is for Manned Flight.

      Speaking of which, isn't "Space Flight" an oxymoron? Flight implies flying, movement through a medium using lift mechanisms. I was under the impression that generating lift required a medium a little more dense than the vacuum of space. Anyways... I don't see your Sub-Orbital Rocket Plane or Missile on the X-Prize list of contenders.. so that makes you:

      a hater, don't hate.

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
  19. NASA is ruled out. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    NASA is ruled out because that's what it says in the rules. This is to encourage private spaceflight. The main reason for that is efficiency. NASA can't screw in a light bulb for under $1M.

    Yes, Paul Allen paid a lot for this. He paid $20M. But as Rutan (I believe Dick) said at the SSOne launch, Paul Allen could have bought a flight to the ISS with that money (Tito paid $10M), but instead he bought an entire space program. So others will be able to go to space (for short periods) for a whole lot less than they would have before.

    Spending $20M on this ship is a huge advance for space flight in my book. You can't get a Gulfstream jet for that, and its development cost was amortized across multiple airframes. Also, a Gulfstream doesn't go to space.

  20. Re:Wind Shear by homb · · Score: 5, Informative

    No he wasn't travelling near his top speed. In fact it was just at the start of the climb.
    So I would tend to believe the wind shear explanation:

    At the start of the climb, the "plane" (more like a winged rocket, really) had high thrust but low speed, went vertical and hit wind shear. Each wing was going through a different wing mass, and this spun the plane 90 degrees. After that, the plane was going fast enough that wind shear didn't matter.

    Incidentally, I was there watching with another 20,000+ people. It was impressive, seeing this white streak shooting vertically.

  21. Re:Wind Shear by grozzie2 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    So the reason I am skeptical is that Rutan gives no explanation for how exactly wind shear caused the loss of control.

    Your explanation sounds great, but, you are using the wrong frame of reference. You are considering classic wind shear at low level/low speed accident scenarios, because that's what the schools teach about. Finding a shear greater than 20 knots at low level is rare indeed. Head up to the tropopause, and it's a totally different story.

    At the junction between troposphere and stratosphere is this little phenomena known as the 'jet stream'. 100 knots of shear on the boundary of the jet streams is actually 'quite normal' and 'not bad'. I've seen 150 knots of shear over a very short distance vertically (less than 2000 feet) while penetrating the jets. This is still not a huge big deal, just gets a little bumpy, but, take a good look at SS1.

    At the time of the roll event, the aircraft was accelerating on the initial rocket boost. It was in transonic, or early supersonic flight regimes. Penetrating a shear layer that gives a 100 knot difference in relative airspeed would set up some very very interesting asymetric shock wave scenarios, where the shock buildup on one side of the airframe is completely different than on the other. Even if this situation is just momentary, the asymetric forces will be huge, and cause a very noticeable deviation from nominal flight path projections.

    Your frame of reference for shear is 'low and slow' in 'low performance' aircraft. SS1 is a very high performance aircraft, operating 'high and fast'. The primary contributor to aerodymanic forces will be shock waves and various forms of drag they produce. It's a whole different world, and everything you learned about 'low and slow' just doesn't apply to the 'high and fast' flight regimes. The SS1 flight mode at the time of the upset was 'at or near vertical' at transonic or supersonic speeds. It would not be at all surprising to see a major upset in the craft stability if it accidently penetrated the core of a 150 knot jet during that flight condition.

    At this time of year, at those lattitudes, the core of the jets would be at an altitude in the area of 45 to 55 thousand feet. It would be unusual to see a jet core that far south in June, but, not unheard of. It's to late, and i'm really not inclined to go dig up old met charts from a couple weeks back, and see what kind of jet stream cores were over that part of california that morning. Sounds to me like that's what they may have hit, and, means the meteorology guys will be watching the jet charts a LOT closer for the next launches. Wouldn't surprise me at all that they even overlooked the detail, with an attitude of 'jet stream cores, over california, in june, who are you trying to kid?'. It's common in the winter, but not in the summer.

  22. Spaceship One isn't even a space ship by Viol8 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Its an aircraft with a rocket motor attached. Real spaceships can't use wings to slow themselves down and manuouveaure because there is no air to do it in! I'm sorry if I sound churlish but this whole enterprise to me smacks more of someones ego than anything practical. When they've solved the problems of manourveuring in a vacuum , long duration human life support (an O2 cylinder doesn't really count) , proper re-entry from near orbital speeds (which are required for any useful flights other than just oooh-isn't-it-pretty quick hops) involving heat shields and all the other necessaties than the US & Russia spent BILLIONS on developing THEN I'll be impressed. But a small plane with a rocket shoved up its backside? Umm no , sorry , its not a spacecraft.

    1. Re:Spaceship One isn't even a space ship by Ranma21 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Mediocre Troll. Rather than trying to judge their efforts by your own (inaccurate) personal definition of a spaceship, how about you try seeing it for what it is?. I am sure there are folk here who wouldn't consider it a spaceship unless it had Federation markings... "Its an aircraft with a rocket motor attached" - You mean like the space shuttle? "Real spaceships can't use wings to slow themselves down and manuouveaure(sic) because there is no air to do it in!" - Wow, the things you learn... You don't think it's too much of a stretch to add attitude jets to SpaceshipOne? "...whole enterprise to me smacks more of someones ego than anything practical" - So you really, really cannot comprehend this as a stepping stone to greater things?. You actually think the only acceptible first demo would have been a fully-staffed ship doing a few orbits then a nice firey re-entry? 100km is the acknowledged and regulated boundary of space, ok?. If you accept that "ship" is in any case a funny thing to call a flying machine, well I am sure you will have no trouble seeing that it is a spaceship. To be honest, no-one will care if you call it a space-ship, -craft, -plane or whatever, but it has travelled into space. Live with it. You never even heard of the X-prize until last week, did you?.

    2. Re:Spaceship One isn't even a space ship by emorphien · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Man, you're head is shoved so far up you must not even need a heater in the winter.

      It has maneuvering thrusters, it has an O2 cannister because they have to carry their oxygen somehow. The cabin is pressurized however. If it were a bigger ship on a longer mission, of course it would be different. And finally, reentry. We've been re-entering the earth at breakneck speeds because it's the simplest physically (although not technically). Who's to say it's right? If someone can design a ship that can slow down enough on re-entry to not need any consumable tiles or heat shields, I say bravo to them. It looks like these guys are on to something.

      It's a spacecraft, it's a bigger accomplishment than you'll ever achieve, and even with its problems, for the small cost they put in to it, the first flight in to space was an incredible success.

      --


      Presently here, but not there.
    3. Re:Spaceship One isn't even a space ship by 0123456 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "Heat shields on the other hand do a very tough job."

      Not really. The Chinese reportedly used thick sheets of (admittedly chemically treated) oak on some of their early unmanned launches.

      "The protective tiles on the Space Shuttle, for example, are expensive, and very fragile."

      I think it's a safe bet that Rutan won't be using such tiles on SpaceShipTwo.

      "Ablative heatshields are a possibility, but they do add to the per flight cost."

      A properly designed ablative heatshield is much easier to remove and replace than shuttle tiles are to maintain. You just unbolt the old one, slap on the new one and you're ready to go... with tiles you have to check they're all in place, check they're all secure, and make sure there are no bumps larger than about a millimeter over the entire underside. That's a huge job, and one of the reasons why the shuttle takes so long to turn around.

      (Note: ablative shields weren't really an option for the shuttle as designed, but there were a lot of other designs proposed before this one was picked).

    4. Re:Spaceship One isn't even a space ship by Teancum · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Look, you need to start somewhere. The Wright brothers didn't claim trans-atlantic flight, that was Charles Lindburgh, and that was to claim the Ortig prize.

      The whole point of the X-prize competition is to encourage the development of rocket vehicles that would be capable of spaceflight, and you have to start somewhere. The X-prize tried to set a goal high enough that it would be difficult to obtain (many thought it was impossible for people to do this on their own dime) but yet easy enough that private individuals could actually get something going. The X-prize has done that with flying colors.

      I would agree that the next reasonable goal that should be set is a 4-10 orbit minimum spaceflight that has all of the other characteristics of the X-prize as well, including pilot, two passengers, and minimal turn-around preparation (NASA hasn't figured this one out yet). Would this be enough for you? I doubt it. You would then say that real astronauts can only be those that travel to other planets/star systems/galaxies (always setting the bar higher because what has happened is not good enough).

      I'm not totally sure about the X-Prize races they want to make, which seems to be the goal for the next round of X-Prize vehicles. There is something behind what the X-Prize Foundation is trying here, but they are trying to make a NASCAR type competition but for passenger spaceflight. Awards for setting records (highest flight, farthest flight, most number of passengers, most effecient). I would be more inclined to try not to fix the system, but rather set lofty goals and let people's imagination run wild. Turning it into a NASCAR competition is just going to make a bunch of fake rockets that give the appearance of passenger spaceflight, but really don't do anything. (Like the NASCAR vehicles that have painted decals for headlights.) While I would be willing to donate to the "Ansari X-Prize" competition if goals were set like orbital or lunar spaceflight, I don't know if I can stomache this current plan they are seemingly going for. That is a legitimate realm of criticism.

  23. An intriguing way to protect during descent. by MtViewGuy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Actually, there is a very interesting way to cool the spaceship during its descent from orbit: use the rocket fuel itself.

    Why not? Cryrogenic fuels are extremely cold, and it is theoretically possible to route these cryrogenic fuels to actually cool down the spacecraft's structure during atmospheric re-entry if there is a safe way to vent the heated fuel. When Douglas Aircraft did its studies for the ROMBUS launch system in the early 1960's they actually figured out a way to use liquid hydrogen to provide heat protection during the descent. I'm sure that Burt Rutan knows about this idea and might use something like liquid methane as a rocket fuel for the ascent and as a coolant to protect the structure on Scaled Composites' Tier Two/SpaceShipTwo project.

  24. Re:dont-run-away.-Stay-on-earth by cr@ckwhore · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is very a very smart comment!

    I agree... it would indeed be sad to see Spaceship-One go into a hanger and never come out again, except for a trip to the smithsonian 30 years later.

    Of course, I really want to see a successful X-prize flight, followed by a series of private companies getting in line to order their own spacecraft from Scaled Composites.

    NASA would make a very smart move by buying a couple of these and using them for actual routine space-flights. Of course, my intuition tells me that NASA would buy a few of these and then somehow figure a way to make a launch cost 100 million with a 2-year turn around on launch times.

    Can you imagine the not-so-distant future where there will be several companies around the globe operating these craft, performing such tasks as launching microsats, ferrying world leaders around the globe in a matter of a few minutes, etc.? It's going to be amazing. If it progresses to the point where several companies are operating spacecraft, then NASA will have no purpose, other than perhaps acting as a regulatory agency like the FAA.

    --
    Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
  25. Control Limiting is a Serious Problem by Goldenhawk · · Score: 5, Informative

    A few months ago, I took a class on Pilot-Induced Oscillations (PIOs). As an aerospace engineer who works on military high performance aircraft, I know how bad PIOs can be, and just how deadly a problem they can be. This looks like a classic PIO, triggered by a control problem.

    To summarize the two-day class into one paragraph, a PIO is an oscillation that is generally sustained by pilot inputs, is usually triggered by some external event, and has at least two common causes: rate-limited control actuators, or so-called "phase lags" (lag between input and output).

    Relevant to this case, then, is the roll actuator (the hydraulic device responsible for moving the roll control surfaces). It sounds from the non-technical answer in the article "the actuator delayed moving one of the ship's flaps" like a rate-limited actuator. The pilot demanded a larger input faster than the system was able to provide, so the control surface hit its stop.

    What ends up happening, in such a case, is that the pilot doesn't get the overall response he expects, so he puts in MORE input. But then it turns out to be too much, so he puts in a response the other way - but it takes a while to start reacting, so he puts in MORE input... etc. etc. etc..

    Also, the "external event" in this case was probably a wind shear. You can have a PIO-prone system and it will fly just fine - right up until you hit that trigger event which is just large enough to throw you into a PIO - and then you're basically hosed. Nothing you can physically do will stop the PIO - OTHER than just releasing the controls and letting everything stop naturally - because it's the inputs that drive the oscillation. And you can bet that's quite frightening for a control-freak pilot who's afraid he's about to lose control. Takes a LOT of training in how to recognize it for what it is; stopping it is easy (if you have time or altitude) - just let go.

    To fix a control system that has PIO problems, you can (a) increase the authority of the control device, (b) increase the response speed of the device, or (c) decrease the phase lag so it responds more quickly. None of those fixes are trivial, unless they're caused by a broken component.

    I'm quite sure Rutan, of all people, is intimately familiar with this issue, and I have no doubt that he and his team will address it appropriately.

    --
    --Brandon / Split Infinity Music

    1. Re:Control Limiting is a Serious Problem by Long-EZ · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This looks like a classic PIO....

      Knowing a bit about Mike Melvill's attitude, capabilities, skills as a test pilot, and previous flight test responses to unpredicted situations, I think you're barking up the wrong tree with this theory.

      ...the "external event" in this case was probably a wind shear.

      The wind shear induced a 90 degree roll to the left, followed by a 90 degree roll to the right. That doesn't sound at all like a pattern of pilot induced oscillation, characterized by overcontrol with divergent flight characteristics. Rather, it sounds like a very well damped response to an external stimulus. In other words, the test pilot made exactly the right control inputs to perfectly correct the situation.

      The pilot demanded a larger input faster than the system was able to provide, so the control surface hit its stop.

      The wind shear occurred at the start of the rocket boost phase, when SS1 was in relatively denser atmosphere. The control hard stop occurred near the end of the boost phase, long after the wind shear. There is no way that the pilot was overcorrecting for wind shear and forced the controls to the hard stop. The wind shear happened long before the actuator went to the hard stop. SS1 had fully recovered from the wind shear and had flown a good trajectory throughout the middle portion of the boost phase. Only then did the problem occur with the hard stop.

      --
      >> My ultraviolent Linux switch video.
    2. Re:Control Limiting is a Serious Problem by Dun+Malg · · Score: 4, Funny
      Nothing you can physically do will stop the PIO - OTHER than just releasing the controls and letting everything stop naturally - because it's the inputs that drive the oscillation. And you can bet that's quite frightening for a control-freak pilot who's afraid he's about to lose control. Takes a LOT of training in how to recognize it for what it is; stopping it is easy (if you have time or altitude) - just let go.

      I remember an Air Force F-15 pilot telling my father a couple stories about training fighter pilots in some Islamic Persian Gulf state (dunno - I was only 8 years old then). He said the students had an alarming habit of reacting to control difficulties during training flights by letting go of the stick, throwing their arms in the air and shouting "Allahu Akbar". This reaction worked when the trouble was PIO, but he frequently had to take control because the students would simply let go and trust Allah to fly the plane out of trouble for them! One time, shortly before returning to the US, the training aircraft suffered some sort of serious failure and the student pilot shouted "Allahu Akbar" repeatedly as the plane spun out of control. He (the instructor) yelled at him to eject, but he just kept saying "Allahu Akbar". So the instructor ejected and landed without serious injury, while the student rode the plane all the way into the ground.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  26. Re:Wind Shear by at_kernel_99 · · Score: 2, Informative

    The kind of turbulence of which you speak can have very drastic affects on an airframe. Particularly if the turbulence is generated by something heavy flying slowly and you are in something light. They will teach you in class to stay above and well behind anything heavy and slow in front of you. Note that slow for them may be in excess of your maximum attainable speed in level flight!

    In other words, its certainly a real issue, but any turbulence encountered by SS1 was not due to turbulence from other craft.

  27. They will have to fly twice to win the X-Prize. by Thag · · Score: 3, Interesting

    To win the X-Prize, you have to do two flights within a 14 day period.

    It's an important detail, because it means the vehicles have to be reusable with minimal refitting.

    The Space Shuttle could never win the X-Prize, even if it were flying and qualified for the contest, because its turnaround time is too long.

    Jon Acheson

    --
    All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
  28. 175 days left to win prize by peter303 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The X Prize Web Site says its "fully funded until Jan 1, 2005", or 175 days from now. I presume some of the prize money or insurance behind it has time limits. That may be a reason why we are seeing a fair amount of activity in late 2004.

    1. Re:175 days left to win prize by Teancum · · Score: 2, Informative

      The X-Prize Foundation originally tried to raise all fo the funding to make the prize essentially open-ended. They got to about $5 million before they hit close to a brick wall in raising much more money other than nickle and dimes that the occasional space enthuisist was sending forward. That was when they "bought" an insurance police to get the rest of the money, on the condition that it had to be won by the end of 2004.

      This is why there is a time limit. It wasn't there originally, but once there were several teams making some serious progress toward the goal, they decided to make the prize fully-funded if it were to be won. It also put a little bit of time pressure on some of the teams, who had earlier been trying to refine their vehicles rather than really pushing for the deadline.

  29. Re:Wind Shear by Rei · · Score: 2, Interesting

    1) NASA did not do the whole "metric to english" conversion error; it was a private contractor.

    2) The sub-zero temperature O-ring failure issue was indeed NASA's fault (Statistics rule #1: Never omit data (in this case, omitting successes and simply plotting failures) to simplify a graph.). However you can pick on anything from an organization that has launched tens of thousands of rockets of hundreds of designs.

    Rutan didn't do one of the most basic things in spacecraft launch (don't launch in high wind conditions), well known since the V-2, because he was even less safety conscious than NASA. Rather than disappoint all of the people that came to watch, he launched anyway into a highly dangerous environment, and nearly killed someone in the process. If NASA behaved like this, every other launch would be catastrophic.

    Rutan has far, far simpler requirements than NASA, and consequently can use a far simpler machine. Nearly blowing up his spacecraft in a case as simple as the X-prize, I'd never trust a dime to him for a real payload launch mission.

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    GIVE US THE CUTTLEFISH!