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ARM: The Non-Evil Monopolist

yootje writes "ZDNet is running an article about ARM, a chip-maker who controls more than 80% of the cell phone market and 40% of the digital camera market. ARM shipped 780,000,000 processors last year. ZDNet finds it strange that no one seems to have anything against this company. And maybe it is strange: according to the article many would say ARM is a monopolist, but you never hear anyone say 'ARM sucks!'. But then again, why would they?"

15 of 452 comments (clear)

  1. ARM--- by Jace+of+Fuse! · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why should I have anything against the company that makes the processor in my GBA? :D

    --

    "Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"

    Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
    1. Re:ARM--- by aurispector · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The strong arm tactics employed by
      MS, SCO, etc., reflect an implicit lack of faith that their products can compete fairly in an open market. If these companies really believed that their products and services were superior they wouldn't need to force people to use them.

      What does this say about the RIAA & MPAA?

      --
      I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.
  2. I kind of like ARM by Lord+Kano · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe their lack of problems comes from the fact that they don't employ sumbarine patents, price fixing, coercion or collusion to keep their position in the market.

    They just make a product that's good for its intended purpose and let the marketplace decide.

    If only more companies would follow that lead, this would be a better world.

    LK

    --
    "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    1. Re:I kind of like ARM by Biogenesis · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It might also be the fact that it's not a name you hear all the time...if at all (this is the first I've heard of them. Like a lot of M$ hate exists because there are millions of people using products that advertise that they are made by M$ and couple that with a mostly undereducated userbase and you're bound to run into problems.

      So yeah, I think it's because when people see a computer crash they also see Microsoft (even if it's a dodgy realtek driver that actually crashed), result: Microsoft cops shit.

      If you get a dodgy phone with an ARM chip you're going to see Nokia/Erricson/etc result: Nokia/Erricson/ect cops shit.

      Likewise Olympus/Kodak/Canon etc will be blamed for poor cameras, again ARM gets away even if it's there problem.

    2. Re:I kind of like ARM by aminorex · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The people who think Intel is evil are those
      who know their products from the inside out.
      The people who approve most of ARM are those
      who know their products from the inside out.

      ARM didn't set back human progress 30 years
      with segmented memory. Andy Grove *still*
      hasn't burned at the stake for that crime,
      believe it or not.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
    3. Re:I kind of like ARM by Misagon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The concept of segmented memory is not that bad if you do it right. Look at Multics. They got segmentation right, but it could of course be better.
      Intel did not combine segmentation with paging in the right way when they added paged memory.
      Besides, seg. has hardly been used on the PC for a decade anyway ...

      --
      "We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
  3. they do it differently by Da_Slayer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe it is cause ARM does not really shove itself down people's throats. Their business practices help set them apart. In addition, they embrace open source/standards and it's ideals. An example: ...the OpenMAX(TM) working group to define a royalty-free, cross-platform API (application programming interface) that standardizes access to multimedia processing primitives used extensively in video codecs such as MPEG-4, audio and image codecs, and 2D and 3D graphics. The OpenMAX API will enable library and codec implementers to rapidly and effectively make use of the full potential of new silicon - regardless of the underlying hardware architecture.

    Lets see free, cross platform, standardized and hardware independent. That meets all my requirements of a good idea(tm). Also their support for embedded Linux probably does not hurt them either.

    --
    Push harder towards Open Media/Content
  4. Why nobody complains by bobhagopian · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I propose a simpler explanation: obscurity. The fact that ARM has a large market share doesn't automatically mean that everyone knows about it -- in fact, how many /.ers can honestly say that we know a lot about ARM?

    In short, we at /. are really good at complaining about Microsoft, Intel, AMD, SCO, and just about any company whose name is mentioned. But because ARM keeps a pretty low profile, it avoids the hatred that will inevitably be directed toward it now that its on slashdot.

  5. sometimes, monopolies are good by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    i'm not saying this, that, or the other thing about arm, but if you look at the debacle of california and their power problems when electricity was deregulated there, then it is clear that for some matters, a monopoly is actually a good thing

    it's simplistic to think monopoly=bad automatically

    but it's also bad to not recognize where monopolies are a necessary evil due to the high cost and other barriers to competition (do you really want to wire all of california a number of times redundantly for electricity?)

    where you recognize a monopoly as inescapable, you must regulate them, bind them with legislation, and watch them like a hawk... and then they are "good"

    btw, here's another monopoly that just made the news, and no, they are neither good nor necessary:

    us govt and de beers in an agreement to allow them to reenter the us market after a 50 year hiatus for monopolistic practices

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  6. When did success become by King_of_Prussia · · Score: 3, Insightful
    something to hold against a company or person? I thought America was the land of capitalism, where those who rise to the top of their fields (be they individuals or corporations) are lauded for their achievements, not sniped at from the sidelines for being more successful than someone else. I come from a country where "tall poppy syndrome" (the cutting down of those above you) is endemic, and it is not a pleasant environment to operate a business in. If America wishes to stay on top of the world's technology ladder, it would be beneficial to eradicate this attitude towards success.

    I see this kind of ting far too often on slashdot, a post about some great achievement followed by a snarky comment from an editor about its inefficiency or some other nit, to be followed up by hundreds of posts proclaiming how they would have done it better. I say applaud those innovating and succeeding, don't discourage them.

    PS, I have 8 gmail invites to give away (I can't get rid of them fast enough lol), so if you want one please post your obfuscated email addresses below (logged in members only, preference given to subscribers).

    --

    Making the moon less necessary since 1998.

  7. Why do you pay attention to ZDNet? by njdj · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ZDNet finds it strange that no one seems to have anything against this company.

    What ZDNet is implying is this: "People don't like Microsoft because it's a monopoly. But they don't dislike ARM, which is also a monopoly. That's inconsistent and illogical."

    Firstly, it's highly questionable whether ARM can be called a monopoly in the sense that MSFT is, because ARM has only about 80% of its market, vs over 90% in the case of MSFT. ARM's competitors have more than twice as much market share as MSFT's competitors.

    But, much more to the point, ARM has not engaged in illegal practices to bankrupt its competitors. Remember, for example, Microsoft's piracy of Stacker's technology. Remember how they broke Netscape, by reducing the price of their own browser to zero by cross-subsidizing its development. Today, MSFT is trying to strangle Linux by concluding agreements with PC vendors which prohibit sales of dual-boot systems. These agreements, forced on PC vendors by MSFT's enormous market power, are almost certainly illegal, but taking MSFT to court would cost many millions of dollars and the case would last for years. These examples are just the tip of the iceberg.

    MSFT's attitude is, it's OK to break the law if you can get away with it or if the benefit exceeds the costs. That's why Microsoft is widely (and correctly) perceived as evil, not because it has a large market share.

  8. maybe this... by danalien · · Score: 5, Insightful
    maybe this link will shead some light on why no-one is agains ARM?! ....

    ..they aren't in the business of 'competeing in/on a manufacturing' bases, but to provide their costumers with the designs they need (Seems like a 'service oriented' approach, to me).

    /* they make their money by licesing 'the final design' on some royalty-base *I guess*, and I guess their costumers sees those royalties as 'part of the manufacturing costs' and don't really care much more about them. +Plus it would cost 'them' more to R&D and Devel/Debug etc etc on their own, then to go with ARM .... Finally it brews down to 'costs' and it seems ARM provides a compelling cost-effecting product/service(s) .... */

    --
    I don't claim I know more than I know, and if you know you know more than I know, then by all means, let me know.
  9. And what do you think would happen by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If Sysco destoryed all their grain storage and stocks? This would be their right, as they own it. Do you think that would have no impact on the world? Do not think it would have more impact than software bugs?

    Sysco is just the chosen example, there are plenty of others. How about General Electric? They aren't the singular monopoly you are used to, but rather the verticle type, controlling a whole line of products. The make your light bulbs, your appliances, they sell you your insurance, make your medical equipment, your jet engines, you weapon systems, etc. They are a larger company than even Microsoft, the largest in the world last I checked.

    Thing is, you really do care about what you hear about. Now if you have a special intrest in something that most peopel don't and thus hear about something that affects it, maybe you care about something most people don't but really, you limit your scope of care to that which you hear about and matters to you.

    Don't pretend like there aren't other monopolies out there, and that they can't do things to fuck people over. If you haven't researched it and/or don't care, that's fine, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation.

    Also notice I never mentioned Microsoft. I am simply pointing out a general trend. I like using the Sysco example because most people haven't heard of them, and because most people dismiss them with a wave as you do. They never consider what a widespread interruption to the food supply would mean.

    My real point is that companies can be monopolies, so long as they stay off the public radar. My dad works for one such company, but no one knows they are a monopoly so no one cares.

    1. Re:And what do you think would happen by Sique · · Score: 4, Insightful
      If Sysco destoryed all their grain storage and stocks? This would be their right, as they own it.


      No, they can't. They have contracts to serve. If they leased the grain silos to someone, then they have to keep the silos in good condition, repair any damages and make sure, they are fully functional. If they fail to provide the services they leased out, they have to pay hefty contractual fines. They don't have the "This silo comes without any warranty whatsoever" EULAs.
      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
  10. like MS? by Xtifr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Somewhere around 90% of MS's operating system sales are to other companies, called OEMs, or Original Equipment Manufacturers. Companies like HP and IBM and Dell and Gateway and a horde of smaller vendors. It's MS's actual customers, the OEMs, who were complaining about their strong-arm tactics and abusive pricing schemes and whatnot. (Although many of the OEMs complained quietly, for fear of offending the great and mighty MS who could crush them like a bug and triple the overall costs of their systems on a whim.) The whole reason the USDOJ got involved with the question of browsers is that OEMs wanted to offer their customers a choice between Netscape and IE (this was, if you'll recall, back when Netscape dominated the market), and MS said, "try it and we'll remove your generative organs with a rusty spoon."

    Anyway, the real point is not that MS has a "more real" monopoly or something. The big issue is that MS abuses their monopoly. Gratuitously and incessantly. When you have a monopoly, free market rules no longer apply (by definition), so the market has to trust in your good behavior. Which is why abuse of monopoly is called "anti-trust".