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ARM: The Non-Evil Monopolist

yootje writes "ZDNet is running an article about ARM, a chip-maker who controls more than 80% of the cell phone market and 40% of the digital camera market. ARM shipped 780,000,000 processors last year. ZDNet finds it strange that no one seems to have anything against this company. And maybe it is strange: according to the article many would say ARM is a monopolist, but you never hear anyone say 'ARM sucks!'. But then again, why would they?"

32 of 452 comments (clear)

  1. I kind of like ARM by Lord+Kano · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe their lack of problems comes from the fact that they don't employ sumbarine patents, price fixing, coercion or collusion to keep their position in the market.

    They just make a product that's good for its intended purpose and let the marketplace decide.

    If only more companies would follow that lead, this would be a better world.

    LK

    --
    "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    1. Re:I kind of like ARM by sacmog · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hey, I have two ARM's and they don't suck at all. Maybe if they did I wouldn't need the ..... Never mind. Wrong topic. (Had to be said).

      --
      --- last minute desparate solutions to impossible problems created by other fucking people.
    2. Re:I kind of like ARM by Biogenesis · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It might also be the fact that it's not a name you hear all the time...if at all (this is the first I've heard of them. Like a lot of M$ hate exists because there are millions of people using products that advertise that they are made by M$ and couple that with a mostly undereducated userbase and you're bound to run into problems.

      So yeah, I think it's because when people see a computer crash they also see Microsoft (even if it's a dodgy realtek driver that actually crashed), result: Microsoft cops shit.

      If you get a dodgy phone with an ARM chip you're going to see Nokia/Erricson/etc result: Nokia/Erricson/ect cops shit.

      Likewise Olympus/Kodak/Canon etc will be blamed for poor cameras, again ARM gets away even if it's there problem.

    3. Re:I kind of like ARM by stevew · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There is so much nonsense in this series I'm not sure what to comment about.

      ARM advertises -just not in the magazines you read! Further, ARM isn't a monopolist, they just happen to be the most successful and oldest of the companies that supply this type of item. There is also Tensilica, MIPS, and ARC to name three of their competitors.

      They also have done a good job of propagating their technology by giving some of it away! What say you? Yep. They have published the specs for the AMBA bus which has become the defacto standard for connecting things together inside a chip.

      Now -they didn't give away their own implementations of this stuff, but the spec is more than sufficient to build the structure in a couple of days.

      Perhaps ARMs biggest success has indeed been their market path. They have done deals with every major chip manufacturer so that I can get access to their designs by merely paying royalties. I can go give them 750K up front if I want their IP to use myself, or I can pay maybe 50 cents a chip instead. This gives me a lower entry price with only the foundary guys paying the 750K. In one fashion they get paid twice!

      In any case, they aren't the only ones on the market, merely the most successful.

      --
      Have you compiled your kernel today??
  2. Shipped? by mst76 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I didn't know ARM "shipped" any processors at all.

    1. Re:Shipped? by joe_bruin · · Score: 5, Interesting

      ARM shipped 780,000,000 processors last year

      indeed, i don't think ARM shipped any processors at all. ARM designs and licenses cores. from low powered arm7's in your run of the mill mp3 player, to a 400+mhz arm9/strongarm/xscale in high end pdas. arm-based chips are produced by dozens of manufacturers in many countries. arm cores run linux (and have a big developer community), wince, and multiple embedded operating systems.

      i think the real failing of the linked story, however, is that ARM IS NOT A MONOPOLY. sure, they may ship more chips than anyone else. they make a good product. but in the embedded world, there is choice. mips, 68000, super-h, powerpc, dozens of proprietary architectures, even low end x86. if arm decided to pull some of the stuff that intel and microsoft try, they'd have the bottom pulled out of them as everyone migrates to their favorite arch of the day.

    2. Re:Shipped? by TonyJohn · · Score: 4, Informative

      Incorrect. ARM licences its instruction set architecture (ISA) as well as its own implementations of that ISA. Intel (and DEC before them) do pay a license fee and royalties for the StrongARM and all the XScales. Have a look at the ARM Milestones. 2001, Intel and TI license the ARM architecture.

      --
      Owl tried to think of something wise to say, but couldn't.
  3. Not just a monopoly. by rebeka+thomas · · Score: 5, Informative

    Being a monopoly isn't illegal

    Using your monopoly position in illegal anticompetitive ways however, is.

    --
    RST
    1. Re:Not just a monopoly. by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Being a monopoly isn't illegal

      Using your monopoly position in illegal anticompetitive ways however, is.


      Sort of quasi-off-topic, but here goes:

      In Finland we have a rather interesting and deliberate monopoly situation in regards to gambling. Slot machines, tables and casinos are all controlled by RAY (decided by the state, I believe), but RAY on the other hand is a non-profit organization. RAY actially funds all sorts of cultural and social service activities. The same applies to Veikkaus, which controls the lottery, betting on sports and similar stuff.

      The result is that gambling in Finland is indirectly giving money to charity, weird, but nice in it's own way. I guess I'm just trying to say that even a regulated monopoly can be a good thing, sometimes anyhow.

      --
      .: Max Romantschuk :: http://max.romantschuk.fi/
  4. I thought ARM by mocm · · Score: 5, Informative

    only designs CPUs. Do they really manufacturethem?
    The article only talks about CPUs shipped, but not that ARM ships them.
    AFAIK ARM cores are use by many chipmaker from Intel to TI, but arm don't sell CPUs.

    --
    ***Quis custodiet ipsos custodes***
    1. Re:I thought ARM by tsho · · Score: 5, Informative
      You're right.

      It's well known that ARM is a Connected Community is a global network of companies aligned to provide a complete solution, from design to manufacture, for products based on the ARM architecture.

      Look here: http://www.arm.com/community/

  5. they do it differently by Da_Slayer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe it is cause ARM does not really shove itself down people's throats. Their business practices help set them apart. In addition, they embrace open source/standards and it's ideals. An example: ...the OpenMAX(TM) working group to define a royalty-free, cross-platform API (application programming interface) that standardizes access to multimedia processing primitives used extensively in video codecs such as MPEG-4, audio and image codecs, and 2D and 3D graphics. The OpenMAX API will enable library and codec implementers to rapidly and effectively make use of the full potential of new silicon - regardless of the underlying hardware architecture.

    Lets see free, cross platform, standardized and hardware independent. That meets all my requirements of a good idea(tm). Also their support for embedded Linux probably does not hurt them either.

    --
    Push harder towards Open Media/Content
  6. Yes, but by Raul654 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The government also have to show harm to the consumer (at least in the US you do - I don't think they have to in Europe). This is always the hardest part.

    --


    To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
    --E.C. Stanton
    1. Re:Yes, but by CAIMLAS · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think that, in this scenario, there really hasnt been any harm to the consumer.

      ARM has produced solid products for years and years. They're widely accepted in the "industry" as powerful processors for application-specific tasks that consume low amounts of power, on a relatively small budget.

      What's more, they're a kind of standard. If you're hiring a microcontroller programmer, or an embedded programmer, I'd say there's a pretty good chance that they at least have some exposure to working with ARM hardware, as opposed to something more obscure.

      All this combined decreases the cost of development for the companies, and results in more products coming to market.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
  7. Becuase they are unkown, mostly. by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Informative

    There are plenty of other monopolies or near monopolies out there. Go read up on Sysco if you want one (they control basically all grain silos in the US). The ones people care about are the one that get press time. The ones that stay low on the radar, almost nobody cares about. Most people don't actually do a lot of general research, they just get in to whatever is news. You have to do a bit of digging to come upon lesser known monopolies.

  8. sometimes, monopolies are good by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    i'm not saying this, that, or the other thing about arm, but if you look at the debacle of california and their power problems when electricity was deregulated there, then it is clear that for some matters, a monopoly is actually a good thing

    it's simplistic to think monopoly=bad automatically

    but it's also bad to not recognize where monopolies are a necessary evil due to the high cost and other barriers to competition (do you really want to wire all of california a number of times redundantly for electricity?)

    where you recognize a monopoly as inescapable, you must regulate them, bind them with legislation, and watch them like a hawk... and then they are "good"

    btw, here's another monopoly that just made the news, and no, they are neither good nor necessary:

    us govt and de beers in an agreement to allow them to reenter the us market after a 50 year hiatus for monopolistic practices

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:sometimes, monopolies are good by AvantLegion · · Score: 4, Informative
      but if you look at the debacle of california and their power problems when electricity was deregulated there,

      Except applying the word to "deregulation" to CA's power is about as incorrect of a use of a word as is humanly possible.

      Only in California does "deregulation" mean "forced sell-offs, forced price setting, prohibition of long-term supplier contracts, and more external price controls". Only in California can you "deregulate" something and actually come out the other end with more regulation.

      Never, ever should the word "deregulation" be used to refer to what happened in California. There are precious few more gross misuses of a term than that.

  9. Student's ARM7 clone disappears from Web by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20011102S0121

  10. Why do you pay attention to ZDNet? by njdj · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ZDNet finds it strange that no one seems to have anything against this company.

    What ZDNet is implying is this: "People don't like Microsoft because it's a monopoly. But they don't dislike ARM, which is also a monopoly. That's inconsistent and illogical."

    Firstly, it's highly questionable whether ARM can be called a monopoly in the sense that MSFT is, because ARM has only about 80% of its market, vs over 90% in the case of MSFT. ARM's competitors have more than twice as much market share as MSFT's competitors.

    But, much more to the point, ARM has not engaged in illegal practices to bankrupt its competitors. Remember, for example, Microsoft's piracy of Stacker's technology. Remember how they broke Netscape, by reducing the price of their own browser to zero by cross-subsidizing its development. Today, MSFT is trying to strangle Linux by concluding agreements with PC vendors which prohibit sales of dual-boot systems. These agreements, forced on PC vendors by MSFT's enormous market power, are almost certainly illegal, but taking MSFT to court would cost many millions of dollars and the case would last for years. These examples are just the tip of the iceberg.

    MSFT's attitude is, it's OK to break the law if you can get away with it or if the benefit exceeds the costs. That's why Microsoft is widely (and correctly) perceived as evil, not because it has a large market share.

  11. maybe this... by danalien · · Score: 5, Insightful
    maybe this link will shead some light on why no-one is agains ARM?! ....

    ..they aren't in the business of 'competeing in/on a manufacturing' bases, but to provide their costumers with the designs they need (Seems like a 'service oriented' approach, to me).

    /* they make their money by licesing 'the final design' on some royalty-base *I guess*, and I guess their costumers sees those royalties as 'part of the manufacturing costs' and don't really care much more about them. +Plus it would cost 'them' more to R&D and Devel/Debug etc etc on their own, then to go with ARM .... Finally it brews down to 'costs' and it seems ARM provides a compelling cost-effecting product/service(s) .... */

    --
    I don't claim I know more than I know, and if you know you know more than I know, then by all means, let me know.
  12. Because it was part invented by a lady by DrSkwid · · Score: 4, Interesting


    Following on from her success with BBC Basic, Sophie Wilson was asked to help with the instruction set, testing it by hand, on paper !

    --
    There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    1. Re:Because it was part invented by a lady by Nighttime · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, Sophie Wilson is a transsexual.

      And before I get modded a troll for this, it's a well-known fact in the Acorn community. Acorn being the company that helped start ARM and produced a range of desktop machines using said chips. He/she also was involved with the design of the BBC microcomputer.

      --
      I've got a fever and the only prescription is more COBOL.
    2. Re:Because it was part invented by a lady by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This is true. He was Roger Wilson when he designed the ARM chip. She is now Sophie. She's fantastically intelligent, but does not suffer fools gladly. You really need to know your stuff if you want to talk to her, and she can be a bit intimidating. Not that she's unfriendly. She also wrote a fair chunk of RiscOS, and sits on the board of Eidos. If you look at Eidos games (eg Tomb Raider) you will find all the FMV scenes are in Acorn-originated Replay format. With this video codec Acorn computers could do full-screen FMV when PCs where struggling along with postage-stamp size video. Sophie is a visionary and we've a lot to thank her for.

      Phillip.

    3. Re:Because it was part invented by a lady by seanvaandering · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, Sophie Wilson is a transsexual.

      Sophie Wilson, formerly Roger Wilson, is a British computer scientist. In 1978 she designed the Acorn Microcomputer, which was the first of a long line of computers sold by Acorn, Ltd. In 1981 she developed BBC BASIC for the BBC Microcomputer, a microcomputer that enabled Acorn to win a contract with the British Broadcasting Corporation. In 1983 she developed one of the first RISC processors, the Acorn RISC Machine (ARM).

      More on Sophie at her homepage

  13. Customer is always right by Fizzl · · Score: 4, Informative

    ARM does good business. They support they cutomers. they make good products. That's all. I don't care if they are a monopoly as long as they continue to be the benevolent dictator.

    They ship exactly what the customer wants. In cell-phone markets it's common to "roll your own" processor. You basically order the ARM core and then tell them exactly what instructions you want to be in the chip. They will deliver that.

  14. Re:Why nobody complains by h0tblack · · Score: 5, Informative

    Arm have a very interesting history. They were originally setup by Acorn back in the early/mid eighties to produce a CPU for the future lines of desktop machines Acorn were producing (A3000, RiscPC's etc). This enabled Acorn to be the first with RISC-on-the-Desktop machines a long time before Apple came along with their claim to this title with their PPC based desktop machines about ten years later.
    ARM were floated off as a seperate entity by Acorn (a very wise move which enabled ARM to grow where Acorn failed) with investment by Acorn, VLSI and Apple (they used the ARM in their Newton). Being a member of Acorn's enthusiast group I was offered dirt cheap shares and only wish I'd had the money to buy some as they rapidly increased in value. Part of this increase came about as ARM partnered with Digital to work on the StrongARM, before becoming rather closer to Digital, and then in turn Intel (as part of some agreement following the two large companies throwing law-suits at each other over unrealted matters). Intel's involvment with ARM enabled them to produce the XScale and no-doubt helped increase penetration in the wider mobile market.
    It's amazing to see a company that I knew from a young age grow into such a pervasive entity. I still have a couple of old Acorn machines, the most powerful of which has one of the first StrongARM chips availible in it, it wasn't until a decade later that I got my next StrongARM, in the form of a much smaller Zaurus. There's also ARM's lurking in games-consoles (GBA, Dreamcast), routers, PDA's, portable music players, mobile phones, infact just about every type of small device. A Lot of people use products with ARM tech in them without even realising it.

  15. Bit if background by aitsu · · Score: 5, Informative
    I used to use an ARM computer when home computing was taking off in the UK. They weren't ARM then, they were called Acorn, building oddball "home" computers like the Acorn Atom. In the 1980s Acorn fought off rival bids from the likes of Sinclair to land a deal with the Department of Education and the BBC to develop the BBC Microcomputer and later the Acorn Electron. Its version of BASIC - BBC BASIC - became the programming language standard taught in all schools in the UK for a whole generation. In fact you could stick me infront of a Beeb now and I could probably knock off a simple text adventure without even thinking. ARM, incidentally, used to stand for Acorn RISC Machines. (Later, the 'A' came to stand for 'Advanced'.) Yes, they were in fact one of the earier companies to commercialise RISC computing with their R-series designs, which were also supplied to UK schools in the form of the Acorn Archimedes computer. The Archimedes was one awesome machine.

    This is all from memory, however. Here's a more accurate history.

  16. Re:And what do you think would happen by Sique · · Score: 4, Insightful
    If Sysco destoryed all their grain storage and stocks? This would be their right, as they own it.


    No, they can't. They have contracts to serve. If they leased the grain silos to someone, then they have to keep the silos in good condition, repair any damages and make sure, they are fully functional. If they fail to provide the services they leased out, they have to pay hefty contractual fines. They don't have the "This silo comes without any warranty whatsoever" EULAs.
    --
    .sig: Sique *sigh*
  17. Not a monopoly by haxor.dk · · Score: 4, Informative

    ARM may have a dominant position, but they do not have a monopoly.

    Economically, ARM is engaged what is called "monopolistic competition". They have a product which is interchangeable with that of competitiors, but is differentiated from the alternative offerings. Same as Nike shoes, BMW cars, Apple computers.

  18. These people may have something against ARM by sjmurdoch · · Score: 5, Informative

    In 2001 a student produced an open source microprocessor implementing a cut down version of the ARM instruction set, However not long after, ARM pressured OpenCores to remove the it from their website, and nnARM disappeared.

    Maybe the reason people like ARM is that at the moment, most of their competition is from big companies and not open source. If projects like OpenCores catch on and FPGAs become cheaper then maybe open source can perform as well in that region as it does in software. Then I think people would not be happy with ARM taking down compatible products, just as people would not be happy if Microsoft went after WINE.

    --
    Steven Murdoch.
    web: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/sjm217/
  19. like MS? by Xtifr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Somewhere around 90% of MS's operating system sales are to other companies, called OEMs, or Original Equipment Manufacturers. Companies like HP and IBM and Dell and Gateway and a horde of smaller vendors. It's MS's actual customers, the OEMs, who were complaining about their strong-arm tactics and abusive pricing schemes and whatnot. (Although many of the OEMs complained quietly, for fear of offending the great and mighty MS who could crush them like a bug and triple the overall costs of their systems on a whim.) The whole reason the USDOJ got involved with the question of browsers is that OEMs wanted to offer their customers a choice between Netscape and IE (this was, if you'll recall, back when Netscape dominated the market), and MS said, "try it and we'll remove your generative organs with a rusty spoon."

    Anyway, the real point is not that MS has a "more real" monopoly or something. The big issue is that MS abuses their monopoly. Gratuitously and incessantly. When you have a monopoly, free market rules no longer apply (by definition), so the market has to trust in your good behavior. Which is why abuse of monopoly is called "anti-trust".

  20. Re:ARM--- by aurispector · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The strong arm tactics employed by
    MS, SCO, etc., reflect an implicit lack of faith that their products can compete fairly in an open market. If these companies really believed that their products and services were superior they wouldn't need to force people to use them.

    What does this say about the RIAA & MPAA?

    --
    I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.