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DHS Says Cellular Outage Reporting is Terrorist Blueprint

Tuxedo Jack writes "U.S. landline telephone companies have to file public reports when their networks have major outages, so you would think the same would hold true for cellular providers and ISPs, right? Not if the Department of Homeland Security gets its way. CNN/AP reports that the DHS wants to make cellphone outage reports secret, claiming that they could be used as 'blueprints for terrorists.' I don't know about you, but I'd kinda like to see public disclosure on what happened if my cellphone/Internet access is down for an extended period."

28 of 421 comments (clear)

  1. Claiming "terror" to justify other things... by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This really smells like a case of the "terror card" being played so that information that otherwise would deserve to be public gets pulled back not just for protection from terrorists, but also to protect other interests... including:

    - Protecting embarassing localized failures of a cell network from being reported as news, which would of course lower a company's stock price.
    - Protecting the cell phone industry from consumer groups keeping stats on outages, which would actually cause companies to have to improve their service in poor areas.
    - Allowing Tom Ridge and friends to ask that cell phone service be cut around areas where "National Security Events" are taking place and being able to claim that the tower simply went down rather than having own up to the fact that they interrupted service to the general public based on nothing more than a reasonless fear.
    - Allowing the government to take down cell service around any incident that the government would rather not news spread quickly about. By ensuring that the people within the secured zone can't call or send pictures out, and reporters can't get in, they can assure a delay in the release of any account of what's going on in that zone... such jamming would be glaringly clear if all of the cell companies filed reports about the simultainous downtime without any equipment failures.

    It is a whole lot easier to cover up a cell service downtime being caused by either company mistakes or government demand if nobody has to file a report on it. And that seems like a much more likely motivation.

    1. Re:Claiming "terror" to justify other things... by Mad+Martigan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Those are good points. I am tired of Terrorism being used as a password to make us agree to stupid propositions the make life a little bit easier for the government *cough* patriot act *cough*.

      Besides, what could terrorists do with the knowledge that cell overage was out? I could see how knowing that cell phones did work in an area could help in, for instance, planning an RF detonation of a bomb. Perhaps we should pre-emptively shut down all the cell networks? That's a bit of a trite over simplification, but I just can't see how not reporting cell outages does anything except ebb the market pressures that would force cell companies to improve service.

    2. Re:Claiming "terror" to justify other things... by silentbozo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      - Allowing the government to take down cell service around any incident that the government would rather not news spread quickly about. By ensuring that the people within the secured zone can't call or send pictures out, and reporters can't get in, they can assure a delay in the release of any account of what's going on in that zone... such jamming would be glaringly clear if all of the cell companies filed reports about the simultainous downtime without any equipment failures.


      I think this is the main reason. Anybody remember Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six? (the book, not the game.) If you were about to hit a bunch of suspected terrorist cells, and wanted to make sure they were completely isolated (communications-wise), you want to jam the cellular frequencies, or isolate the local towers to make sure that they couldn't warn their buddies when the men in black start kicking in the doors. Suddenly realizing that service in your area is out might be a good tip-off that the hammer is about to fall, and being able to visualize that on a global map would be a great way to figuring out what areas to avoid during an extended operation.

    3. Re:Claiming "terror" to justify other things... by GreyWolf3000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think the crux of this issue is that on 9/11, cellphones from New York spread work quickly, and soon that flight in Pennsylvania went down because (presumably) the passengers knew their plane would be used as a missle and got up and did something about it.

      --
      Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
    4. Re:Claiming "terror" to justify other things... by Monkelectric · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Those are good points. I am tired of Terrorism being used as a password

      I heard a wise soul on slashdot say "Terrorism, drugs, and kiddy porn is the root password to the constiuttion."

      --

      Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley

    5. Re:Claiming "terror" to justify other things... by sterno · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What we're talking about is filing a report, not a real time tracking of cellphone outages. So it really wouldn't make sense in that regard. They'd find out the outage happened three months later, and realize why they didn't get any warning.

      --
      This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
    6. Re:Claiming "terror" to justify other things... by synaptic · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Except that the government has never come out and said "the people on the airplane crashed it". People who live in that area, however, report several other planes in the area, including fighter jets such as f-16s.

      Face it, we shot down that airliner. Everyone was focusing on New York City and little attention was paid to the Pennsylvania field. Cheney and Rumsfeld had already authorized shooting down any of the hijacked airplanes and there was plenty of time for armed fighter jets to intercept it from Ohio, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, or Kentucky.

    7. Re:Claiming "terror" to justify other things... by Martin+Blank · · Score: 4, Informative

      Families that listened to the cockpit voice recording in April 2002 said that the recording, while not completely clear, did clearly indicate that there was a struggle in the cockpit shortly before the plane crashed. In addition, had the plane been shot down by a missile, there would have been debris scattered for miles before the impact site along the flight path -- Sidewinder, Sparrow, or AMRAAM, those things will blow a lot of pieces off of a large plane.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    8. Re:Claiming "terror" to justify other things... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      umm, there WAS debris found 8 miles or so from the main impact site, backwards from the line of flight, and roughly near where the eyewitnesses claim they saw the shootdown occur. Of course, you knew that from research, correct, about the debris and the mostly ignored eyewitnesses?

      It's on the net, just not on the 6 o clock news.

      Here's another one. That stewardess who allegedly called her husband had to use a phone built into the plane, because her cellphone was in her purse, which she couldn't get to because the terrorists were in the way and stuff....

      Well, hooo-kay then, how did she activate it without her credit card, which was presumably back in her purse as well?

      If you want more, there are more than a hundred unanswered questions and quite strange incongruities and even stranger coincidences with the governments story about all the events surrounding 9-11. Those above are just two of them.

      Happy _legitimate_ researching!

    9. Re:Claiming "terror" to justify other things... by Xyrus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well with all those terrorists out there...

      Terrorist 1: So do I get to suicide bomb today? Do I?!? Do I?!?!

      Terrorist 2: No. The cellular service isn't down.

      Terrorist 1: Awwwwwww I never get to be the bomb!

      Terrorist 2: Cheer up, little guy! You never know...Hey Look!

      Terrorist 1: What?!?! What's going on?

      Terrorist 2: The cellular service just went down! You see? Now you can blow yourself up in the name of !

      Terrorist 1: Hoooray! Hooray!

      The Department of Homeland Stupidity is the biggest friggin' joke going in America. At least Hitler's SS had some creative reason's to start trampling rights.

      How the hell is this information going to help a terrorist? Terrorist are not spur of the moment. They plan. Just like any other paramilitary self-righteous group of assholes on the planet.

      Knowing that cell coverage is out in an area would only be useful to them if they did it themselves.

      Conversely, knowing where cell coverage is operational would be good for them if they wanted to detonate a bomb from afar.

      I can't believe grown human beings are making these decisions...and people go along with it!

      This is almost as silly as not letting homosexuals have equal rights....oh....yeah.

      ~X~

      I support Bush as much as I support terrorism.

      --
      ~X~
    10. Re:Claiming "terror" to justify other things... by BlueStrat · · Score: 4, Informative

      "umm, there WAS debris found 8 miles or so from the main impact site, backwards from the line of flight,[...]"

      One thing to take into consideration, is that if there was a struggle in the cockpit, and the aircraft went out of control, it is quite likely that pieces were ripped from the aircraft by the extreme loads placed on the airframe. An airliner is no fighter jet, one can rip the wings, horizontal/vertical stabilizers off quite easily under extreme maneuvers/speed, or in an uncontrolled dive. As far as accounting for the debris field being so far away, the aircraft could have sustained damage, but actually travelled some distance before impact, as we're talking starting at an altitude of around 30,000-35,000 ft, which means that the aircraft could have been in a fairly steep dive, losing more and more pieces, and still cover 8 miles ground distance. Although not an A&P (Airframe and Powerplant) mechanic or crash investigator, I am a retired senior avionics technician, and have helped in crash investigations before, including black-box voice/data extraction from damaged recorders, and have also worked helping to repair crashed aircraft that were salvageable, so have some experience from which to speak.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    11. Re:Claiming "terror" to justify other things... by Idarubicin · · Score: 4, Informative
      Here's another one. That stewardess who allegedly called her husband had to use a phone built into the plane, because her cellphone was in her purse, which she couldn't get to because the terrorists were in the way and stuff....

      Well, hooo-kay then, how did she activate it without her credit card, which was presumably back in her purse as well?

      This is the problem with many conspiracy theories--they ask such simple, obvious questions, that clearly point to no rational explanation besides conspiracy.

      Er, no. First of all, you're begging the question of whether or not the stewardess in question actually had no access to her credit card. How about this--if I were a steward(ess), I'd realize that carrying a purse or backpack while I worked was impractical. I'd also realize that I was travelling all over the country, and that I might end up staying in a strange city on any given night (weather diversion, mechanical trouble, etc.). Lastly, I might realize that my purse/bag/backpack could be stolen while I'm off at the other end of the plane, and I might not know about it until after the passengers were long gone.

      What would I do in such a situation? I'd stuff my driver's license, a credit card, and (especially for international flights) my passport into the pocket of my uniform where they would be easy for me to keep track of. I wouldn't carry my phone on me, because a)it's bulkier than the cards, and b)I'm not allowed to use it on the plane anyway.

      For that matter, the stewardess could have just borrowed a card from someone seated near the phones. If the plane I was on was hijacked, I wouldn't begrudge someone a few minutes of toll charges.

      The question of debris is addressed by a well-written sibling post. Briefly, a struggle for control in the cockpit could easily result in deliberate or accidental rapid maneouvres that result in greater-than-design stresses on the airframe. Consequently, bits shake loose. If you stomp on the rudder pedal of an airliner while flying at anything close to cruising speed, you're going to rip stuff off. (Think about what would happen to your car if you turned the steering wheel abruptly all the way to the right while on the Interstate.)

      If those are the best of the 'hundred unanswered questions' and 'strange incongruities', then I'm afraid it's a pretty weak conspiracy. Hint: lack of information does not necessarily mean conspiracy--sometimes it just means that we can't get all of the information.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
  2. I'm tired of losing rights.... by Kid+Zero · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is getting silly. I doubt seriously this is "Terrorist Roadmaps", more like Cell Companies want to keep exact details of outages secret.

    This Patriot act is getting downright unpatriotic.

    1. Re:I'm tired of losing rights.... by Exatron · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Getting unpatriotic? It was unpatriotic from the start.

      --
      "I think so, Brain, but 'instant karma' always gets so lumpy." - Pinky
      "Decepticons FOREVER!!!" - Ravage
  3. Well, obviously... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    [Classified]

  4. This is a follow-up story to another story... by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you want to spin the headline a bit... you also can see that the FCC is actively considering making cellular service companies file downtime reports just like landline companies do, and that's something that has never been required before.

    Of course, that'd be something that's only of geek interest. It becomes a whole lot more newsworthy when the Department of Homeland Security has come in to claim terror fears should be reason enough to not publish such reports along side the service providers who would be expected to grasp at any reason they'd have to object.

  5. It's true that... by Arcanix · · Score: 5, Funny

    The cell phone networks will be the first target in any terrorist attack, why bother taking out a power plant or a skyscraper when you can mildly inconvenience a small region of people?

  6. Better hoard your maps! by Dr+Rick · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Of course the same argument can be applied to maps. Knowing the locations of streets, rivers, libraries, or entire cities could provide terrorists with a major intelligence coup. Sooner we'll be just like the old Soviet Union where entire cities did not appear on maps due to National Security issues.

    --

    Dr. Rick
    - "It's such a fine line between clever and stupid" (Nigel Tufnel)
    - Zort! (Pinky)
  7. Re:Wow by rokzy · · Score: 4, Funny

    all road signs to government buildings/hospitals/schools should be removed. If terrorists get hold of this information and attack it would be bad.

    Rush hour is also an unacceptable risk. If terrorists attack during this time it could be disasterous. Consequently, as of next month all work times will be randomly generated. You will be informed when you are due to start working 15 minutes before the start of your shift via the newly secured cellular phone network. Anyone travelling on the roads without prior authorisation via cellular phone will be assumed to be a terrorist attempting to cripple our vital transportation infrastructure.

  8. Heh by mfh · · Score: 4, Funny

    > Are you afraid to leave the house during a storm because you might get struck by lightning?

    This is Slashdot. Welcome. We rarely leave our parents' basement. So, yes, I am afraid to leave my house.

    --
    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
  9. i quit by isbhod · · Score: 5, Insightful

    GAAAHHHHHRRRR that's it! i quit, they win, give me the flip'n Prozack II 2 pill, bar code my head, and implant the tracking chip, take away my cash adn give me an RFID card, and tell em what to think, feel, wear, eat, sit, sh!t, sleep, walk, run, and jump. I'm tired of all this crap, why not make everything illeagle that way you can arrest anyone at any time for anything. The system is broken, there are not Mr. Smith in washington, you can't fight city hall, the sky is falling we might as well give up and accept our fate now.

    Screw you homeland security, why not cover the county with soft fluffy pillows so when we (or at least "the children") fall down they don't get hurt. Look damit, terrorist are not backwater ignorant bucktoothed country folk, there are eductated (usually in the U.S.) religious zelots or crackpots or both. They do not need to use these reports to generate a blue print, they already have one. Security through obscurity has nor, does not, nor will it ever work. Go ask Microsoft if you don't believe me. Besides i would love to see real time reports so that way we can send in a team of heavily armed drunken red necks in their 57 chevy to all the big outages just incase the outage was due to a terriost attack, be casue no matter how much of the religious zelot they may be, no one can stop Zek and Earl after they've downed a case of Highlife.

  10. Re:Wow by SpecBear · · Score: 5, Insightful
    OK, consider a couple of things things:
    First off, any terrorist attack will likely cause the local cell network to collapse. A network is most likely to be overloaded when it is in use by a large number of people in a small area. Guess where a terrorist is most likely to attack?
    Secondly, hiding this information will not make us safer. In fact, it will put us more at risk. Here's why.
    • Having outage information publicly available is only useful for a terrorist if the outages show a pattern that can be used to predict a future outage.
    • If a cell phone provider is having regular, predictable outages, then the network is broken and needs to be fixed.
    • If the information is public and available, the cell provider is far more likely to fix the problem.
    • If the information can be kept secret and hidden, the problem will be of a lower priority.
    • If fixing regular outages is a low priority, then the overall reliability of the network will be lower.
    • A weak cell phone network will be much easier to overload and exploit regardless of whether the terrorists are even trying to do so.


    Security by obscurity is a problem not just because it's ineffective, but because it can encourage bad/lazy practices in other areas of security.
  11. We've gone way beyond 'ridiculous' now. by multiplexo · · Score: 4, Interesting
    ' I don't know about you, but I'd kinda like to see public disclosure on what happened if my cellphone/Internet access is down for an extended period."


    That sounds like something a terrorist would say! Quick! Call John Ashcroft, this man is hiding something! What exactly would you do with this information you Amurrika hatin' terrorist you!


    Actually though if you want to see how useless, stupid and ridiculous our "war on terrorism" has become (hope this one goes better than the "war on drugs" cuz last time I checked drugs were winning big time), check out the story of Ian Spiers. Here is the link to his website describing his run-in with Homeland Security types or you can read this story from the Seattle Times or this column from the Seattle Post Intelligencer. For those of you who don't want to read the articles Spiers was harrassed by the local police and Homeland Security types because he was taking pictures of the Ballard Locks, oh, and he's kind of not-white looking, but that never figures into the actions of our Homeland Security Overlords.

    --
    cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
    1. Re:We've gone way beyond 'ridiculous' now. by multiplexo · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Where to start with this bullshit? Well why not here:

      They got a tip that a dark-skinned person was taking pictures and notes. If they had *not* followed up and those locks were bombed next month, would you want their heads? I bet you'd be outraged.

      It's worth noting that those locks are a military installation run by the US Army Corps of Engineers.

      The Ballard Locks a military installation. Yeah, I guess that those Sockeye salmon are really valuable to our national security, as is the ability for those boat owners on Lake Washington and Lake Union to get their boats to and from Puget Sound. My God! The whole country would collapse if the locks were damaged! Quick! Suspend the Constitution!

      So what if people calling in tips to the DHS use profiling? I don't recall any WHITE people bombing us. When someone says the word terrorist, you know, like when we're at a heightened security alert, what mental image do YOU form? Thought so.

      You don't recall any WHITE people bombing us? Do you have memory problems as well as being completely stupid? I guess that you don't recall the bombing of the Murrah federal building in April of 1995, which was done by a couple of white guys, one of whom, Timothy McVeigh, was executed for it. I guess you don't recall the bombings of abortion clinics that were done by WHITE right-to-lifers. I guess you don't recall the bombings of churches in the south by WHITE KKK members.

      The mental image I form is of the Department of Homeland Security crying wolf again and again and again. The terrorist alerts, which weren't that great of an idea to begin with, have been so overblown as to become meaningless. I'm also beginning to form an image of Homeland Security releasing these to distract our attention from other events, and so are a lot of other people. Witness the latest Homeland Security alert which contained no new info and was a rehash of information from several months ago.

      Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, lieutenant Taco? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Spiers, and you curse the Department of Homeland Security. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that Spier's questioning, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.

      If fucking retards such as yourself are the only thing standing between me and Osama Bin Laden then I'm fucked. Oh BTW dickhead, I spent 13 years in the National Guard as an M60 and M1 tanker, what are your credentials? A four digit /. ID number? A high score playing America's Army, a John Ashcroft Junior G-man badge? Sitting through all 24 episodes of 24 without having to get up and go to the bathroom?

      Quite frankly your existence is grotesque and incomprehensible to me. Why didn't your mother abort you? Why didn't your dad drown you in a bathtub? Why don't you shoot yourself in the head?

      I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.

      You provide me with my freedom? Did you write the Constitution? Did you fight in WWII, Korea, Afghanistan? Were you a first responder on 9/11? If not then you haven't done shit, pigfucker. You're either some sort of fucktard poseur who has spent too much time playing with his George W. Bush flight suit action figure or you actually do work for one of the idiot bureaucracies that is concerned with "homeland security". If it's the latter then I have news for you old son, you and your buddies haven't done jack fucking shit for our security. Osama Bin Laden is still out there, so is Mullah Omar and Zarqawi. What have you fucktards achieved other than harrassing US Citizens and trashing the Constitut

      --
      cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
  12. more industry protectionism on the way by twitter · · Score: 4, Informative
    The BBC's Washington correspondent has a story about a "web of terrorism" today. It's a clear call for internet censorship, which will clearly benefit incumbent service providers at the expense of the web and freedom of speech.

    People in Washington and elsewhere have noticed that terrorists use the internet in much the same way they do. They point to web sites and even combat games used as "online training camps".

    Words like that are usually followed by bombs and at least one person has been to jail over it already and speech has not been free everywhere forever. The EFF has a nice list of sites already shut down.

    More stupid laws can't be far behind a propaganda ramp up like that. The only way to implement the censorship that would be to continue to centralize telecommunications further. The only way to kill free speech is to kill free enterprise.

    The pattern is clear. The government is augmenting it's own power by proping up favorites in industry. It's so unAmerican that I want to throw up.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  13. Why? EMS depends on Cell Phones these days by bandy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The cops know that everyone is listening to their frequencies on scanners. Also, their towers are in well-known locations. Take that out and the police are paralized. Well, they were. Once cell phones were pocket-sized, local EMS realized that they were not only a good "private" way to communicate but also that they were a reliable backup in case of emergency.

    --
    "You might as well get your son a ticket to hell as give him a five string banjo." -unknown minister
  14. Re:USA - USSR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful
    1. We have millions of people in our prisons; a higher percentage than any other nation on Earh. You're right, people in our prisons aren't dying, they are just getting raped. And all the LOL PRISON RAPE jokes that come up whenever incarceration is mentioned in casual conversation show it's considered acceptable and just punishment in our culture for just about any crime.

    2. You said "so where is that closed information" -- find out anything about that plane yet? Yeah. And just because guys didn't come knocking on your door in this one case doesn't make all the cases of "homeland security" gone wrong that have happened over the last few years go away.

    3. Let's take your example: You said "Would news about casualties in Iraq even make it out?" Did you miss the story about the government trying to block pictures of coffins from making it into the media? During the Vietnam war, the nightly news on all major networks showed the body bags, gave the casualty count, showed graphic footage of the war, every day. The US government learned its lesson from this and has had policies in place ever since to hide the ugly side of war to keep support from eroding. Until Fahrenheit 9/11 came out, many people had never seen photos of the dead and wounded from the Iraq war!

    Besides, the guy's point is that major media is require to act like lapdogs to whomever is in power at the moment, or they will get their "access" taken away. No more interviews, press passes, or anything. Bye-bye business. Do a little research on this -- it's been going on for quite a while now.

  15. RTFA! Please just RTFA! by Grail · · Score: 4, Informative

    The brunt of the argument is that

    1. Public outage reports include details of what went wrong and how the carrier fixed it
    2. Public outage reports come out long after the event.

    DHS is not concerned about "the network is currently down" notifications being "blueprints for terrorists". DHS is concerned about the ones like this:

    "the CDMA cell at 33N 37W went down due to a fault in the non-redundant power feed - an overhead powerline that runs 1km from the nearest substation. We plan to install a second feed from another nearby substation within 6 months. Overhead lines to be installed as per attached plans."

    That's what the DHS means by "blueprints for terrorists" - they're concerned that the level of detail in the fault analysis would be enough for someone to cause an outage on purpose, thus preventing people calling in or out of that mobile coverage area.

    So please just read the damned article before harping on about "how could a network outage possibly benefit a terrorist"?

    As it stands, a network outage could be of great benefit to terrorists, if they can cause the outage at will.

    TRANSMISSION ENDS