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Ammonia Could Indicate Life On Mars
Young Master writes "Just seen this story on good old Auntie Beeb, apparently traces of ammonia have been found in the Martian atmosphere. Ammonia doesn't last long on Mars, so it must be constantly replenished - it could be active volcanoes (none yet found), or it could indicate life..." Along with the detection of methane, Mars is starting to look a lot less dead than had been supposed.
Or maybe the microbes are like some of those anaerobic heat loving kinds they find in volcanic fissures here on Earth. Maybe the only place where life can survive is the volcanoes?
I submitted this story last night, and it didn't get posted.
How do we know ammonia doesn't last long on mars? Did we take some there and see how long it lasts?
Evolution or ID?
really the only indicator of life on mars that is going to convince me is....life on mars.
m ar s.gif
i've been disillusioned by all the rumors since the face hasn't lead to any big breakthrough.
http://www.matrixofcreation.co.uk/mars/face-on-
Know what I like about atheists? I've yet to meet one that believes God is on their side.
there's no proof, but we dont have the seismic monitors in place on the ground that could detect magma chamber shifts and the like. We've only been able to look for BIG changes. Little ones might go unnoticed. Mars is a big mystery still, there's just not enough direct observation being made to say anything for sure.
Moo.
Again and again, life has proven itself to be a real beyutch to kill. Bottom of the sea near lava vents. Antarctic wastelands which are the driest places on earth. I believe I once read about viruses which had survived in space for years as well.
I think the notion of panspermia (if I have the terminology correct) - that life first arrived on Earth after having been blown off the surface of Mars by an impacting meteor - is one of the most interesting theories out there.
True, the escape velocity of this planet is higher than that of Mars but that only means that it would take a bigger meteorite strike to kick a chunk toward Mars. We have evidence of plenty of strikes big enough to have done so, however.... Chicxulub springs immediately to mind.
Once at escape velocity, the odds of any given rock hitting Mars are low but given 4 billion years (the oldest fossil evidence for life) a lot can happen.
The world might be ready to accept that there is life on Mars (say, bacterial life). After all, we found meteorites from Mars that contained fossilized bacteria. After all we don't even know if life originated on Mars, and then spread to Earth. But the fact that life can spread between planets on ROCKS is going to take some of the shock value out of it and people will realize that instead of saying something like "I don't think God created life on MARS!"
Right! But also, things blown off mars would tend to fall inward towards the sun...just as things blown off earth would. So to really get moving into an orbit that would intersect the martian one, AND then hit Mars....wooo.
But 4 billion years IS a long time. I'd be surprised if we ever found an earth rock on mars, but maybe, just maybe...
Moo.
Anywho, seeing as how we have little clue how earthly clouds develop, some are theorizing that certain bacteria are necessary for cloud formation. What if the whole cloud is a bacterial colony? Clouds have an organic shape, and certain patterns seem similar to bacterial growth patterbs.
Here's my question: If clouds are not bacterial colonies, what non-organic chemical processes produce shapes and structures similar to clouds?
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
The prospect of active volcanoes is a surefire indicator that there are sources of heat. That means there could well be regions on mars with liquid water. Warmth + Water are definitely a good start when it comes to the possibility of life. Of course if there are no active volcanoes then whatever is creating and sustaining supplies of ammonia and methane is also very interesting. Either way whether ammonia is coming from volcanos or from a possible source of life both scenarios are good in terms of finding it.
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Not only do rocks travel between Mars and the Earth, but some are even thought to have traveled there and back !
There's approximately half a ton of material from Mars that falls on the Earth every year. Even though it takes more momentum to leave the Earth and more chance to fall back on Mars than the opposite, that's way too much to neglect.
Maybe we deserve this world ?
If NASA starts finding life on other planets, many Christian fundamentalists will most likely try to put an end to our space program, just as they have tried and conintue to try to put an end to the teaching of theories of evolution, stem cell research, cloning research, etc.
Remember Galileo Galilei. It can happen again!
When you fork out the cash to send out a definitive human expedition to mars that will comprehensively scour the planet for life, looking for your super-proof, then we'll stop. Otherwise, "arcane clues" are all we have to go on. Science works that way. I mean really, you can't see x-rays, just some arcane clues that they are there...but boy, are they there!
Moo.
On earth, volcanic dust is mostly kicked up by one type of actual eruption and by ground shockwave effects. Ash is also a two stage process, with ash emitted directly in some eruptions and indirectly by burning off nearby forests and such.
A martian volcano can't burn off local forests, but should be like an earthly one in kicking up dust from shockwaves, and like an earthly one, this should happen both during actual eruptions and outgassing. What we don't really know all that well yet is how long such dust will remain suspended in the thin Martian atmosphere to be detected, but we can safely predict something about that from observing the world wide dust storms Mars gets, even if we don't know if that dust was originally from a volcano or not. Unfortunately, dust particle sizes on earth mostly seem to follow the same curve whether they come from localized ground shock or scouring off of exposed rock faces by high winds. Barring being able to analyze the mineral content of the dust and trace it to specific surface terrain features, dust will be a pretty inconclusive indicator. Your first suggestion, other gases, looks more possible, both to test and to get something like strong evidence out of.
Who is John Cabal?
The magnetic field of a planet has a direct correlation with the amount of fluid activity (lava) from within. Mars is a small planet, so it cooled off relatively quickly from its accretion period. We can see this similarly with our moon. With little to no convection, the magnetic field will be very low, which is what we observe on Mars. BUT, since we do observe a tiny magnetic field, it suggests that the Martian core might not be completely frozen. Given that Mars has the largest volcano in the solar system, it could indicate a great weakness in the crust where gasses from the core could escape easily. And because they are detecting these chemicals around volcanoes, it doesn't seem likely that life is responsible
I know I'm going to be modded up on this
Sorry, I was thinking about methane. But there are also nitifying bacteria in some anaerobic lagoons. These bacteria are common in soils here. Maybe there's a carbon source below the surface on Mars that is providing these little anaerobic bacteria with something to munch on.
From what I've heard (and obviously nobody else here), Mars doens't have a molten core. How could it have volcanoes?
John Kerry is a Joke!
Lander point is NOT false.
s ep 98_1.htm
http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast01
Excerpt:
The Surveyor probes were the first U.S. spacecraft to land safely on the Moon. In November, 1969, the Surveyor 3 spacecraft's microorganisms were recovered from inside its camera that was brought back to Earth under sterile conditions by the Apollo 12 crew.
The 50-100 organisms survived launch, space vacuum, 3 years of radiation exposure, deep-freeze at an average temperature of only 20 degrees above absolute zero, and no nutrient, water or energy source. (The United States landed 5 Surveyors on the Moon; Surveyor 3 was the only one of the Surveyors visited by any of the six Apollo landings.
Moo.
Possible, but if there was an exchange of biological material, it is more like to be bacteria from Mars making it to earth (do to the relative depth's of their gravity wells).
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The article mentioned, though, that ammonium breaks down rapidly in the atmosphere. The only KNOWN explanations for the (apparently replenishing) amount detected are volcanic activity or the presence of life.
Thus spake the BBC =p
Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
Life has evolved into every nitch on this planet, but that doesn't mean that a random chunk of bacteria is going to survive anywhere you put it. Whatever survives the impact which sends it into space, the trip through space, and the impact on mars, then has the difficult job of surviving in an environment likely to be totally unlike where it came from. With time it might evolve into something could survive there but its not likely to get the chance.
Wait, that's not it. The explaination is this: We detect ammonia on Mars so we obviously jump to the conclusion that it's "the transient creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water", whilst completely missing the ammonia factory constructed by "intelligences greater than man's" to generate fuel to propel pods to planet earth!
No that's not it either. I was just testing the the combined intelligence of Slashdot mods to see if they would spot a HG Wells quote hidden in the middle of otherwise unrelated material.
Actually it was a warning that as we busy ourselves about our affairs on slashdot and and looking through microscopes at soda pop, we are being watched by martians. But don't worry, if you manage to find an old enough home made soda pop in your basement and open it in the martians face, it'll defeat him everytime.
The entire history of modern human perception of Mars - not just chemistry - has been to see life into it where it wasn't. First, there were the "canals". Even in scientific circles, there was commonly a view that there were "at least" species like lichens and mosses on mars. There was the viking biology experiment. There was the mars meteorite. There was the methane. There's the ammonia. I'm sure I'm missing some, too. Each time, there's this immediate "It's life!" reaction that people instinctively do, before being shown that there are many other more "Occam's Razor compatable" explanations.
BTW, speaking of the viking biology experiment, lets not forget that it showed processes that we sometimes view as life occurring in the sterilized sample, aka, abiotically.
Very well; let this abomination unto the Lord begin!
Oh, one that just came to mind that I forgot to mention: the seasonal brightening/darking of mars was initially assumed to be due to plants.
Very well; let this abomination unto the Lord begin!
Many meteors ablate like an Apollo heatshield as they enter the atmosphere. The heat is used up turning the surface into a gas and little heat is conducted inside the meteor. Meteors start out very cold, so meteorites are often very cold to the touch when found right after impact.
Yes, I really think they could survive the trip.
Thats basically what i'm saying - And not all bacteria have the ability to create a neat little protein cuticle around their cell walls. So, fist the bacteria that was pre-existing on the probe would have to have the ability to encyst. We probably have brought a few over...but the evolutionary leap from life on earth or life on mars is...well...fucking huge. That would cull off a HUGE majority, if not all. But really...you only need one sucessful bacteria to colonize.
Another thought that the conspiracy theory side of me digs - what if NASA has been developing a microbe that would have the ability to live on mars (selectively "breeding" microbes is done all the time, especially in bioremediation), and then plan on sending them up in latter probes to begin terraforming? All they would have to account for would be the basic nutrient requirements, mainly H, C, N, P, and K; then have them be photo-energetic (not necesarily photosynthetic...there's not much carbon dioxide over there as I understand), somehow using oxygen as their terminal electron acceptor...It would be difficult...but i'm not so sure it's undoable. Those sly bastards. All it would take would be one wayward biologist.