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Two New AMD Mobile Chips Launched
to_kallon writes "Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) has unleashed two new mobile microprocessors today. One processor belongs to the company's 64-bit Mobile Athlon64 line while the other one comes from the 32-bit Athlon XP-M product line. According to CNET News: 'Like other Athlon 64 chips, and Intel's Prescott, the new Athlon 64 3400+ will block many security threats automatically in conjunction with Windows XP Service Pack 2. The delayed SP2 is slated to come out in August. The Athlon 64 3400+ will also run a 64-bit version of Windows, due now at the end of the year.It runs at 2.2GHz and comes with 1MB of cache. Gamer-PC maker Alienware will insert the chip in a notebook later in the month. Meanwhile, the Athlon XP-M 2200+ comes from the company's older line of chips. It runs at 1.6GHz and is built around an older processor core and comes with a 512KB cache. Averatec, a small computer manufacturer, has put the chip into a notebook that can convert into a tablet PC, marking the first time AMD's chips have been used in a tablet'."
AMD has also recently released a new multiprocessor motherboard configuration for its low-end processors. Machines based on this technology will specialize in playing 80's MP3's.
They're calling it the Duron-Duron.
There is no mod option "-1: Disagree" for a reason. "Overrated" is not an acceptable substitute. Post something instead.
What a vivid image! I can imagine to "mobile" chips, both in leashes, one pulling, the other restlessly stalking back and forth on silvery leg-pins until... Bam! the leashes are cut, and they bound off into the distance...
With all these new advances in processor and video-card technology, when are we going to see some advances towards cheaper, and quieter cooling solutions? These devices keep getting hotter and hotter!
In order to keep my gaming computer cool I have something like 7 or 8 fans in there, and the box sounds like a jet-engine taking off... I've looked into water-cooling but virtually every water-cooling setup costs upwards of $200. Is it really *that* expensive for the equipment? What other alternatives are out there?
And with a notebook... isn't heat going to soon be a real serious issue with laptops?
my sig was dubm so i took it out.
"marking the first time AMD's chips have been used in a tablet"
Prior to this, they were either injected or used in suppository form.
Unknown host pong.
IBM putting one of these 64 bit chips in a highend thinkpad. While I really like the Athlon64 processor, I would not even consider buying anything but a thinkpad for a PC laptop.
but how are we supposed to enforce the DRM? We have to make sure the artists rights are protected!
Casual Games/Downloads
This sucks! Fine, I'll say something more worthwhile. Notebook makers should really drop both AMD and Intel processors and pick up Via's stuff. They put out miniscule amounts of heat(~20 watts, I think) and while not as fast can still run at 1.8Ghz. This is what notebooks really need.
It doesn't, it's the other way around - this CPU has a feature (NX bit) that WinXP will be aware of as of SP2.
OR IS IT!?!!?!?!
Umm... you do realize this is referring to the NX (no execute) extension of the CPU right? It merely means that if you are running SP2 you will be able to utilize this hardware feature of the processor. Linux also has support of this in all recent 2.6 kernels.
--Kevin
as long as it doesn't affect linux I guess I don't care much about the security fixes although it's nice to see these tweaks being made.
Just wondering, IF linux was more used than windows, would AMD and Intel make those fixes of MS's windows xp even though it's less popular than another O/S?
Don't get all paranoid. The processor supports the NX flag, which SP2 will use to help prevent buffer overflow attacks. Any other operating system can impliment this as well (and if i'm not mistaken, Linux either has this or its in test kernels already - but I could be wrong there).
It's not OS-specific, but the majority of users aren't likely to see a benefit until SP2 arrives, because that's the first time Windows will impliment the function. NX support is coming eventually from Intel as well.
Don't worry the proc has no idea what OS is running. Its just that it supports a noexec instruction which lets you mark areas of memory as data vs. code, this makes the buffer overflow attact a little harder because the chip won't do instructions in an area that is flagged data(where the array you are exploiting would be). SP2 will give the windows OS the ability to support performing that instruction in some instances and therfore enchance security. I have already heard noises of implementing this in Linux and *BSD. Its complex from a software stand point to make really effective use of as you have to be able to predict the future to some degree but its probably a good security tool noone the less and could be extreemly benificial in many cases.
no, but it could cripple itself in the name of "trusted computing"
Get the byte outta here.
Kudos go out to hardware engineers for stepping up and cleaning up the dangerous wake of bad programming practices. I'm not familiar with exactly how these security features would work, but I assume they will be automatic and thus will help clean up problems in older software which carry little hope for patches.
It does bring questions to mind thought.Will software developers get lazy and no longer even attempt to adhere to good programming practices? Will it matter if they do or not?
The Hammer based chips run cooler than their older AthlonXP brothers. They also add cool-n-quiet for power management. My Athlon 64 laptop (with a DTR chip) rarely gets very warm and the lower power portable Athlon 64 chips are extremely cool (nearly in the G3 - G4 power range which is really impressive for an x86 chip). The P4 based laptops, however, can literally burn you. If you go the Intel route, the Centrino platform is excellent and one of the best chips ever by Intel.
[RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
Yay! I've always been a fan of AMD's architecture. I definitely to see AMD take more of the laptop market.
That's probably a good thing! AMD architecture NEEDS big fans for how hot they run.
no thanks
Someone please explain the statement about blocking security threats in conjunction with the operating system. My imagination is failing me. New instructions that do....what?
WalMart is the largest retailer and McDonalds is largest restaurant chain.
Volume != Quality.
Intel has 'unleashed' new low voltage and 'ultra low voltage' Centrinos and Celerons.
You know you've been IMing too long when you almost say 'lol' out loud to a non-geeky friend...
Notably, Prescott chips with NX support aren't yet shipping.
Let's not forget that one can hate his government, but love his country.
The processor comes with a "no exec" op code that an operating system can use to enhance security. OpenBSD or Linux could use this just as readily as XP. As a matter of fact OBSD already does iirc and MS isn't doing anything truely original on this platform (yes, I'm aware other processors and OSes have offered this for years.)
I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
While I agree with your feelings, I do not agree with actually persuing such a thing.
I want laptops that run COOL and have MASSIVE battery life. In a laptop, performance comes third or later (in my opinion).
That said, I also need it to do work on when on a business trip. The VIA chips are lacking some serious components, so they run REALLY slow compared to Intel and AMD running at similar clock speeds. I think they're missing float-point arithmetic, or something else that makes anything somewhat complex take FOREVER to perform.
I don't just use my laptop for browsing the 'net or checking my email, I use it to do all of my work when I'm at home or on a trip. It's easier for me to make my laptop replicate the business environment as much as possible (and throw in some development tools: eclipse, JBuilder, VS, etc). Then, use my desktop for my gaming, browsing, emailing, etc. This way, I have a delopment machine for work, and an "everything else" machine for play (or personal development).
I think the Centrino is a step in the right direction. But I think companies need to just start making a model that runs slow, but long and cool.
After all, not everyone is alike. Some people want pure battery life and a cool unit, while others want more of a balance between SOME performance and good batery life.
Are you sure? In Linux, when you want to watch a video, tell teh CPU that you're running WinXP Pro and you're good to go!
How did you think the CPU was going to identify the operating system?
[o]_O
That's probably a good thing! AMD architecture NEEDS big fans for how hot they run.
Maybe this is why Intel's stuff has become hotter than AMDs as of late. Because they are losing alot of their fanbase? Har har!
You can get Virus Protection without an AMD processor here.
Via processors top out at around 1.2Ghz, which is normally fast enough for me - this PC I am using is a Via 866.
What they do not have and AMD (+Intel?) do have is a mechanism which slows the processor down in milliseconds if there is nothing for it to do. That is how they save power. I got the chance to speak to an AMD VP about 20 months ago and he indicated that they were very aware of the need to reduce power consumption.
I don't know how Transmeta compare.
Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
I just got to say how much I love their notebooks. Easily some of the best made on the market. I purchased one last year, based off the Athlon 1600+ Mobile chip. It ran pretty decently, but like most notebooks... the graphics chip was a little underpowered. They came out with a new version of their 12" notebooks (size and weight was another factor) that contained the 2000+ Mobile CPU and a mobile/integrated version of the S3G DeltaChrome chipset (Unichrome, if I remember correctly)... it may not be the greatest for games, but it plays HalfLife/CS at 30FPS+ at 640x480 and that is good enough for me. UT2004, with everything set to minimum, can still play at around 20fps. So it does have a little bit of muscle in it.
The new Averatec 12" notebooks are the bomb... Pretty decently loaded and skips out on most of the legacy stuff, like parallel/serial/ps2... Gets a pretty respectable 3.5hours average battery life. Even when doing something intensive or playing DVDs (moving parts will help suck up the battery life).
The best thing about their notebooks is that they are sturdy as hell. Very, very well built. the hinges never feel like they're going to come apart, the screen holds taut and stays there. Some of the larger 15" (and especially widescreen models) almost feel like they'll bend and wobble at the corners.
I was impressed with the performance of my 2000+ Mobile (Barton Chipset) based laptop that I've given up on using my desktop, permanently. And it's a watercooled 2600+ with more drives than I care to count. It was very easy to get used to using the Averatec and I'm in love with them.
I'd highly recommend getting them. I'm on my second (gave the first one to me mum) and if they keep it up, I can't see how they'll have any trouble breaking into the tight notebook market even further.
(Sorry for the slightly off topic post, but Averatec was mentioned and I just felt like posting my raves for this company.)
Oh, hey, not that anyone here really needs it... But free 24/7 tech support (toll free #) that actually uses people in the US... not india. That's major kudos in my book. (*Spits on HP*)
The Averatec notebooks are also very reasonably priced. You pay more for quality, of course... but the deal is still quite outstanding. Currently you can get the model I have, 2000+ AMD Athlon Mobile CPU, Delta/UniChrome Video chipset, 12" Screen, built in broadcomm wifi 54g adaptor, touchpad with scrolling areas, 40GB HD, 256MB Ram, CDRW/DVD Drive, 3xUSB2 (each port gets full bandwidth, not three plugs shared across one bus), 1 PCMCIA, 10/100, 56k, VGA Out, sound, etc... For about $850 now.
My only gripe is the sound. It's AC97 Audio, so it's not that great. Just noisy. In my case, since I do professional mixing, I would rather have an mAudio USB 24-Bit sound card anyway. (I mixed two CDs so far on this laptop without a hitch. It's been absolutely wonderful.)
My longest uptime (damn you, Windows) has been 3 weeks, 6 1/2 days. Not bad, considering previous experience with laptops they tend to crash easily due to the heat or whatnot. No problems, heat related here... Just had to friggin reboot for an IE patch. Oh well.
Perhaps you would care to enlighten the more elite vendors out there then. And by your analogy, Intel is the largest retailer, making it worse than AMD.
Dream the day dream.
I'm looking for a low noise (quiet) AMD 64 Notebook. Do you know any? Thanks a lot for your reply!
Keep your eyes to the sky.
I'm getting ready to build a new PC and I've decided on the Athlon64 (it was such a difficult decision... not.). It looks like the mobile chips are basically identical to their desktop brethren except that they don't put out as much heat nor do they have integrated heat spreaders. I really like the fact that they put out less power, perform identically (I think), and only cost a few dollars more.
Does anyone know if you can take a mobile A64 and just plop it in a desktop motherboard (for regular A64s) and have it just work? Or does the BIOS have to be aware of the fact that it's a mobile proc? Will the heatsinks designed for the desktop versions work with a mobile version? Does an A64 really require a 400W+ power supply as many sites suggest?
And it's exciting to think that we may get 64-bit laptops soon!
Best Buy can have you arrested
- AMD is lauching the new AMD Athlon Greece 2004, because the real Athlete use Athlon!
- Intel is lauching the new Pentium 4 Olympic Games Edition, with 20 new "Olympic Instructions" to make the Olympic Games coverage 50% faster!
The VIA chips are lacking some serious components, so they run REALLY slow compared to Intel and AMD running at similar clock speeds. I think they're missing float-point arithmetic, or something else that makes anything somewhat complex take FOREVER to perform.
.mpeg or .mp3 files whilst doing something else. PDFs are painfully slow to load and the other two need the machine to themselves. As I said in another posting, this is on a Via 866.
You exaggerate. They certainly have a Floating Point Unit. They are a bit slower than Intel/AMD machines running at the same frequency.
Where I notice problems is when looking at large PDFs, or running
Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
I don't want a freaking CPU that knows it's running WindowsXP SP2, or linux, or anything else, I only want a processor that does processing. Let the software do the security stuff
You dumb ass, the processors have features that HELP the software "do the decurity stuff".
A padlock doesn't care if it's keeping out a robber or you when you've forgotten your key. It's the same thing here.
NX will help to prevent buffer overflow exploits. These processors neither know nor care what OS they're running. NX will help provide security for Windows, Linux, *BSD or whatever OS is developed next.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I meant to say the Desktop Replacement (DTR) version of the Athlon 64, not the true Mobile A64.
You know you've been IMing too long when you almost say 'lol' out loud to a non-geeky friend...
You n00b!
IMs indeed. lol
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
HP and Compaq 64-bit laptops already exist (both found on hp.com). The guy in the office next to me has the Compaq one. I haven't been much of a fan of Compaq but that laptop is awesome (and $2000 with most of the options). Runs Linux like a champ, though if you get it with the built-in wireless card it'll only work in Windows.
This is a well overdue feature that will cause less headaches for administrators as well as end users.
I've never done any research on the 'nx' feature, but is this just a feature so that developers can remain lax at actually writing non-vulnerable code?
We already *have* 64-bit laptops, plenty of them. There's already ones with Mobile 2800+ up through 3200+, and DTR (DeskTop Replacement) 2800+ through 3400+. And the only difference between the Mobile and DTR is that the former is 62W, while the latter is 80-something... not an insigificant difference, to be sure, but the only difference it'll actually make is that your desktop replacement notebook will have slightly less horrible battery life and be a bit less scalding. Not anything you could actually call mobile ("portable" is the correct term). (For reference, Intel's fastest Pentium M (Centrino) processor is 21W, and there's ultra-low voltage versions under 10W which are used in ultra-mobile thingies. AMD also has a "line" of 35W Mobile A64s (2700-2800+) which could also be used in something other than a desktop masquerading as a notebook.)
Work is punishment for failing to procrastinate effectively.
The Via C3 is seriously underpowered (har!) for desktop use. Really, it would get spanked by a P-III Coppermine which are pretty energy efficient already, 20-30W. It does have a FPU, but the earlier C3's ran the FPU at half the clock speed. The newer ones run the FPU at full clock speed, but it's still not very powerful. It's fine for embedded applications where it has just enough power like small servers and home theater PCs that play videos. It also helps that they built co-processors for MPEG decoding and AES encryption into the motherboard chipsets. Via know who the target market is, and full powered desktop CPUs it is not.
against Intel now in the laptop market as well. AMD has steadily been gaining against Intel is the desktop market, but I really think that the laptop market is the place to be(in terms of cash of course) Also nice that they are attacking at both ends, the performance end and the budget end.
With the advent of wi-fi, I see a lot more people ditching desktops all together and using a laptop as their only machine. Why not? Laptops easily have enough power to check email, browse, use an office suit all at the same time. And you can take them anywhere. And with a low end laptop only a few hundred more than a lowend desktop, there really isn't the financial motivation to get a desktop anymore.
Desktops aren't dying, but the real growth(at least in terms of the mature world economies) will probably be in laptops in the coming years.
Proud AMD User
I picked up a Mobile Athlon XP (unlocked) 1600+ last week here in the UK. Its now running happily at 2.3GHz, equivalent of a Athlon 3400+, and the best bit? Only £28+vat (about 50$ total)! Now that is some cheap processing power... definitely recommend anybody on a budget to pick up one of these babies...
The Averatec "3150H" that I'm posting from here has been a pretty nice little machine. Small and light, and (most importantly for me) every single component has Linux drivers available - including the software-driven modem (drivers developed by the modem company themselves, no less).
The downside is that their support blows. I reported an annoying BIOS problem (if the "Auto-dim" feature [which automatically dims the screen when you disconnect from AC and switch to battery] is turned on, the touchpad stops working when you disconnect (or, if you started off of battery, when you connect) the AC adapter. Yes, I checked it in Windows, too - it happens there as well. No response from them at all, and the BIOS download has never been updated.
Their newer systems, sadly, also use "Broadcomm" (or was that "Broadcom"?) chipsets for the built-in wireless. Naturally - the company with the most contemptuous attitude (among wifi-chipset manufacturers) towards linux users is the one they pick...
That said, though, The "Athlon XP-M 1600+" in this machine chugs along just fine. I can't exactly play Unreal Tournament 2004 on it (While I have the DRI CVS drivers for hardware accelerated 3D installed, the "S3 ProSavage/DDR" is not known for its high performance...) but for just about everything else it's been great.
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
It also means faster code, no need for overflow checking code anymore
The only reason they're making a big deal about this is that traditionally x86 has not had separate write/execute flags for memory regions. If you could write to it, you could run code from it.
Other architectures (sparc, for instance) have had separate read/write/execute flags for ages, and Linux has support for them. Now x86 gets that support as well.
Since POSIX has separate flags for each of the three attributes, properly-written programs will *just work*. Stuff that relies on the old x86 behaviour may need to be fixed.
- AMD64 CPU at or above 3000+ AMD rating
- nVidia graphics
- 17" TFT display
It seems every laptop fails to meet one or more of my above criteria.--- must have
--- not ATI or anyone else
--- not 15"
Scroogle
While the C3 cpus are nice for ultra-low power situations, a Centrino is probably a better (if more expensive) choice for most uses. I'm pretty sure the clock speed can be set low enough to use a comparable wattage - I just wish they were available in desktop socket 478. While there are desktop motherboards that take the notebook chips, they are ridiculously expensive. The mobile Athlons can be used in desktop motherboards, though...
I thought PCs "comes out of the power-off state" in 16-bit mode :D
I put a Mobile Athlon 64 3200+ (62W) in my ASUS K8V Deluxe motherboard, replacing a standard 3200+ desktop chip. It works exactly as you'd expect. Getting a heatsink to fit was tricky since the notebook chips are "lidless" (no aluminum lid protecting the core), but Zalman's CNPS7000A-AlCu (don't use the all-copper version, it's twice the weight) fit. Alpha's didn't. Just be real careful not to overtighten the screws. Supposedly the lidless CPUs can be cooled better but that lid was put there for a reason.
That said, you can undervolt most of the Athlon 64's quite a bit. I've used ClockGen under WinXP to undervolt the DTR 3200+ in my notebook to 1.3V @ 2GHz, down from the standard 1.5V. Perfectly stable. See here, and check silentpcreview.com (which got me started on all this).
Anyone know how to manually set core voltage levels under 64-bit Linux? Then verify that I didn't push things too far?
"AMD = poor quality."
Yeah, quality does tend to drop dramatically if you're stupid enough to remove the heatsink from a running CPU.
sigaar
Can't say what the figures are, but I've replaced more Intel CPUs than AMDs. Not that that means anything. CPUs fail every now and then for various reasons, regardless of their perceived "quality." If you put an AMD chip on a quality motherboard you won't have problems with it. If you put an Intel chip on a crap motherboard your chances of having trouble increases dramatically.
t iu m/ppiie/P PBR/pentiu m_fdiv/pentgrph.html
"quality is measured in #/% defects"
While we're on the subject of "quality" let's not forget the pentium bug, shall we?
http://support.intel.com/support/processors/pen
http://kuhttp.cc.ukans.edu/cwis/units/I
Intel have quality issues from time to time too.
sigaar