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Which Digital Video Camera for Amateur Video?

Maznafein asks: "I'm about to leave the IT world, after just finishing a degree in audio engineering, and I'd like to start doing some A/V work on the side as I attempt to make the transition to a new career. I want to make a my first short film either in the late fall, or early spring. I want to do everything in the digital domain as I currently use Logic and Ableton Live on my power book. I have all the gear I need to use up to eight microphones and I can easily pick up some shot gun mics. I don't really know which [video camera] to go with. Like every geek I want the best resolution available other than that the only thing I know I'll need is it to be water resistant/proof, or be able to purchase a housing, for up to a 15 minute scene in the short film I am adapting. What should I go with?" "I've always been a firm believer that to make it in any field you have to show that you want to do it. I currently write my own tracks (bangin' german techno) and engineer/mix down local artists (rock, pop and hip hop) on the side already. I just have yet to get into the nitty gritty of doing film production."

11 of 294 comments (clear)

  1. Go 24p by 1984 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Panasonic AG-DVX100A

    Not cheap, but 3 CCD and progressive scan. And there's an underwater housing available (which isn't cheap, either). And Final Cut Pro on your Powerbook can edit 24p native.

    1. Re:Go 24p by asparagus · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yeah, get FCP. The AG-100 is a good cam, as are Canon's GL2 and Sony's PD-150's. All can be had for around $2-3k, and are worth the upgrade over single CCD cams, esp. for short filmmaking. Remember to blow another $500-$1k on some long-life batteries, a car charger, a good fluid-head tripod, plenty of tapes, a boom pole + mike, a set of basic filters, and a sturdy case to carry everything around in.

      Good luck ;-)
      -Brett

    2. Re:Go 24p by sith · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've got a DVX-100 and love it. Have shot about 300 hours with it. For indie film work, it's almost the defacto choice these days. The XL2 is very interesting, though I'd personally not buy it right out of the gate. For indie film work, the PD-170 is kind of "meh" - if anything get the much cheaper PDX-10. It'll give you native 16x9 (anamorphic), good low light, XLR inputs and all that jazz. The image it produces is quite nice - even compares OK with higher end Sony cams like the DXC-D35.

      Head over to 2-pop.com for far more info though...

    3. Re:Go 24p by RobNich · · Score: 4, Informative

      Although the bandwidth may be the same, the tape moves faster around the head, which results in better quality of data on the tape. Fewer errors, artifacts, etc. In addition, for some reason (probably marketing) nearly all MiniDV equipment records the audio "unlocked" from the video, so the two could go out of sync under certain conditions. DVCAM equipment locks the audio by default.

      As far as broadcast, DVCAM is minimum quality needed to hand a tape in. Most stations use DigiBeta, however, which is supposedly far better in quality. I have not yet seen the results in dubbing from DV to DigiBeta, but I will soon.

      --
      Hello little man. I will destroy you!
  2. Budget???? by mikejz84 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Okay, lets start the easy question: What is your budget? You can drop $100,000 on a Sony HDCAM setup, but in all odds you'll be staying in the good 'ol NTSC realm. Again it depends on how much money you have in your pocket. Visit DV.com for some camera ideas. I would try and get a 3-CCD Camera. Visit http://www.saferseas.com/ for some package ideas, also DV.com is a good site.

  3. Progressive Scan by EMNDev · · Score: 4, Informative

    Progressive scan is a good feature to look for. Normal video is interlaced, meaning each frame only contains every other line. Progressive scan records a complete frame everytime. Another feature to look for is a CCD capture. One CCD per color. The image quality is generally much higher with a 3 chip capture. This said: The Canon XL-1S is certainly a nice camera, if you've got the budget... around $3500. The Sony VX-2000 is also quite good and a bit cheaper. Both have progressive scan and 3 CCD capture.

  4. Price range? by Dr_Nick_Riveria · · Score: 4, Informative

    It really depends on your price range, but if you're looking for good 'entry-level' pro cameras, I've heard good things about the Panasonic AG-DVX100A, as well as the Canon GL & XL series. I actually believe Steven Soderbergh's "Full Frontal" was shot with a Canon XL1S.

  5. 30fps or 24fps? by lordmoose · · Score: 4, Informative
    Nowadays the main question (if you want to shoot with prosumer cameras) is if you want to shoot at 30 fps interlaced or progressive, or 24fps. For 30fps, I would recommend the Sony PD170 (this is the camera I have). It has 2 XLR inputs, a nice little lcd flip-out screen, and all the manual controls that you would really need. The other 30fps option is the Canon XL1s, which has interchangeable lenses along with a sleek look (hey, it matters!). But, Canon just announced the specs for the XL2 camera, which will record at 24fps and have more of the film-style controls that really helps take the edge out of the "video look". By the time this camera comes out, most NLE will probably support editing on 24fps with a variety of pull-down options (this is the camera I'm waiting on).

    The other major 24fps camera is the Panasonic AG-DVX100A, but I've seen a lot of so-so reviews about it.

    No matter what you buy, you'll have to buy a underwater casing for it.

  6. Re:Resolution... by Spytap · · Score: 4, Informative

    The above commenter has no idea what they're talking about.

    My advice is this:
    A) Rent a camera, don't buy. You can rent a much better camera than you can ever afford and it'll show.
    B) res does matter. You shoot with a shitty camera, and no amount of color correction or digital post-production is going to change the fact that it looks like you shot it with a shitty camera. You can always subtract information for video, DVD, or HDTV, you can always compress it, but you cannot ADD information that isn't there to begin with. If you're talking about regular tv resolution, than you're a fucking idiot and don't know shit about filmmaking.
    C) If you're shooting indoors, and you're shooting a film, you're lighting a scene. Make sure you whit-balance it to the tungsten filament indoor lights you're using. If you're shooting it outside, likewise to the sun, which has more blue in in.
    D) No camera is water-resistant/proof. You'll need a housing, and you'll need to be willing to run the risk of ruining the camera. If you're going to be shooting legally (i.e. with permits, insurance, etc.) shooting in the water will add about $30,000 in insurance premiums alone (trust me, I've done it before). Save yourself the trouble, the time, and the money: change the scene while it's in the script stage; it's free to change now, it'll cost you to change it later.
    E) If you want more advice/some tips/anything else from someone who's shot more than a few short films (and produced as well) email me and we can chat.

  7. Make it cheap by MurrayTodd · · Score: 4, Informative

    Speaking from someone who sunk thousands of dollars into equipment that still has yet to be used much, I'd suggest for your first foray that you consider renting or borrowing or finding the cheapest used DV camera you can find.

    Don't freak about 3CCD elements and "all that jazz" because your first movie will be the exercise in which you make all your first mistakes. The degradation of substandard video equipment will be ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE less than all sorts of issues you will face.

    If you're really serious and have some money to rub together, check out one of the programs of the New York Film Academy. They offer 4- or 8-week intensive courses that are really good, concentrated, and destined to give you the most bang for your buck. It'll do you a whole lot more good than spending several extra dollars on top-notch equipment.

    Murray Todd Williams
    http://www.murraywilliams.com

    P.S. My projects from the NYFA are on my website. They may seem rough around the edges, but I learned VOLUMES in making them!

    --
    Murray Todd Williams
  8. Re:"Not an ask slashdot"? by connorbd · · Score: 4, Informative

    Normally I'd agree with you, but there are a handful of high-end camcorders that can answer the question. Low-end... well, truth be told I've heard quality is pretty much the same for all the low-end 1CCD consumer cameras, so it comes down to what you need and the general reputation of the brand. A few semi-informed brand opinions:

    Sony: excellent quality but you pay a premium for the name. Probably the only important manufacturer of Digital8 hardware, which might be important if you have a large library of 8mm tapes to be digitized, but they don't make any D8 hardware even close to pro-quality. Sony is also a fan of proprietary formats -- Memory Stick instead of SD/MMC or CompactFlash, MicroMV (which is nothing but a marketing gimmick as far as I'm concerned).

    JVC: I use a JVC myself. JVC tends to hide occasional pro features in their camera menus (particularly manual white balance) but the quality of the product depends on the model year. Mine is 2002 and I've never had a complaint; the 2003 models, though, looked and felt like junk. Their 2004 models are too small and seem to have ergonomic issues. JVC does have the only consumer HDTV camcorder available right now.

    Canon: They seem to keep their designs pretty consistent from year to year, and the GL and XL series pretty much define the high end for consumer/prosumer camera hardware. Their ZR series is a little on the small side for me, though I'd probably buy one of them if I was in the market for a second camcorder.

    Panasonic: The only cheap 3CCD camcorders on the market is one of theirs -- I think the low-end one costs around $800. I can't say much about the quality, though I do find their ergonomics to be awkward -- the cameras are too small, and you have to unplug the battery and put it in a separate charger. To me this is an utterly ridiculous sort of design flaw.

    Samsung: Junk for now, though it's gotten better over the years. Tends to be rather gimmicky, though apparently they can play back PAL-format miniDV on an NTSC TV, which would make for a powerful advantage in certain markets.

    I think that covers most of the major manufacturers, at least those you'll find at Best Buy or Circuit City. My thinking is that Sony and Canon probably offer the best product available for most purposes, with JVC being a decent choice on the high end but dodgy at best on the Best Buy level of things.