Slashdot Mirror
FAA Approves Sport Pilot License
"Light-Sport airplanes will be limited in size and power: maximum weight 1,320 pounds, maximum two seats, maximum airspeed 120 knots, single non-turbine engine, fixed landing gear. If it's a Light-Sport, it should be one of the easiest planes to fly."
This has the potential to dramatically increase the number of people owning and flying planes. Not only is it easier for a person to become a Sport Pilot, it is easier and cheaper for a company to sell a Light-Sport airplane. (For years, people have been building "kit" airplanes just so they will fall under the looser "homebuilt" rules. Now, there will be no need to build a plane unless you actually want to do so.) Several airplane companies have promised to produce Light-Sport planes that will cost no more than a luxury car."
How long before we see F22 Raptor mods for the garage built kit plane ? (I say F22 because the first Enterprise or X-Wing/TIE mod attempts will likely see a Darwin award winner)
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
...now we'll have wave upon wave of ultralights smearing themselves ineffectively across the sides of NYC skyscrapers.
Who knows, this may cause thousands of dollars of damages to our nation's economy through skyrocketing window cleaning costs.
As for fears that small planes might be used to carry weapons of mass destruction, I can't imagine any hostile states currently having the technology to produce a nuke weighing under a ton. I have a mental image of a fanatic-piloted sport plane hopping along a runway, frantically trying to get airborne despite the huge black ovoid labelled "ACME BOMB" in bright red letters, before plummeting dramatically off the side of a cliff. "Allah Ackbar, take off you piece of s***!" *Boom*
Wile E. Coyote, eat your little heart out.
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
It is nice that the FAA is going to treat ultralights in a more formal way, but then I am not sure it is a good thing. Now I must have a licence to fly them, where as before you just hoped on one and Up, Up and Away.
Come the revolution, the Bourgeois, Capitalistic, "A PARKING STICKER HOLDERS", will be first against the wall!
Another good overview can be found at http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID= 65261609-3814-42c0-979d-a77f9b8c10f8&
This new category bridges the gap between the relatively uncontrolled (US) ultralights and the standard airplane. If I understand correctly (correct me If I'm wrong), it may allow European 'ultralights' (which can be larger than their US cousins) to be flown in the US without meeting all the standard airplane rules.
I sometimes wonder how did certain people managed to get their driver's licence at all.. and most importantly, from WHO ;-) I just shiver at the thought that pilot license could be obtained much easier from now on.. I know people who I wouldn't give the license to use a computer, yet alone something else, with much more devastating crashing effect.
*sigh*
Why do we need licenses at all for light sport planes? There have been light sport planes on the market for years.
Until now, light sport plane pilots were fully licensed. The new license is easier to obtain, meaning that "casual" pilots won't need to demonstrate that they're medically capable of flying a passenger- or commercial-aircraft.
This is where the serious fun begins.
"(d) If unpowered, weighs less than 155 pounds; or (e) If powered: (1) Weighs less than 254 pounds empty, excluding floats and safety devices which are intended for deployment in a potentially catastrophic situation;"
Certification:
"(a) Notwithstanding any other section pertaining to certification of aircraft or their parts or equipment, ultralight vehicles and their component parts and equipment are not required to meet the airworthiness certification standards specified for aircraft or to have certificates of air-worthiness."
The FAA tried something like this years ago with the Recreational Pilot Certificate - however, the requirements were almost the same as the full private (still need a full class 3 medical, nearly as many hours needed to qualify), and the rec. license was 'crippled' in features compared to the full private. It was hardly surprising that almost no one bothered with it.
On the second attempt, they seem to have got it right. The class of plane the Sport Pilot license addresses are non-complex, easily maintained and things happen slowly enough that even very green pilots shouldn't have a hard time handling them. Over-regulation has been killing general aviation for years so let's hope this gives the recreational end of it a good boost.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
I wish more states would follow this trend in the other direction with cars. I remember renewing my license at 21, the lady asked me to read the 2nd or 3rd line down in the eye chart, no prob, done. Expecting her to ask me to read the next line, or maybe a few down, she says thanks and stamps off my renewal. wow.
That is all the better I have to see to be licensed to drive a 3500 pound automobile that will go 165 mph? In the Army, when I got my hummer license, at least they made me take a test that measured my reaction times and depth perception.
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
In Europe, the medical requirements (JAR-FCL) are horrible. You need to be superman to be allowed even the most simple license. I've been fighting the rules for some years now. One requirement is that there can no be more than 5 dioptry between both eyes. My left eye is slightly over +5 and my right eye is normal. Although my optometrist has confirmed that my vision is normal and my stereopsis is normal, I'm out. If my right eye would get worse to, say, +2, I would be allowed to fly.
One other issue that needs adressing is anti depressants. I'm not sure if this new law covers anti depressants in the US, but I know there's talk about legalising their usage for pilots. Many modern antidepressants cause no threat to your flying abbilities. What does cause a threat is pilots flying around with untreated depressions because they will be grounded if they seek help. I've been on paxil for over 5 years and I never ever noticed any change in my abbilities to fly or drive.
Really, these regulations should be relaxed. I accept being picky about choosing people to fly +400 people airliners, but please leave people alone who want to have some fun in a tiny 152.
Being a private pilot myself, I can see why one wants to reduce costs. It does take an awful lot of both money and time to get a PPL. However, never forget that flying can be very unforgiving if you do something you shouldn't. I just hope that what little requirements are left, are rigid enough to not cause danger to others. _ /Bjorn.
The FAA and aviation community has made access to aviation too costly for most people. The cost of mandated repairs/upgrades/maintenance and the cost of licensing really is prohibitive and limits the market for aircraft. A new class of less regulated, easier to maintain planes and easier to get licenses would go a long way towards ending this problem... Even a two seat puddle jumper with a 200 MPH speed and 600 mile range would be a huge improvement over the car.
-- $G
Yes, Ultralights were limited to 55 mph, 5 gallons of fuel, 550 pounds weight, and a single seat. The Light Sport Class allows very light two seat airplanes to be flown under limited conditions with relaxed rules.
The good news is that now instead of having to pay $25000 for a two seat metal Cessna you might be able to buy a 1942 Taylorcraft for $10,000 and then actually afford to keep it airborne.
The light sport planes are allowed to weigh up to about 1,100 pounds.
It's Light sport propeller-powered parachute, you insensitive clod.
The training goes sometning like this:
If you push the stick forward, the houses get bigger. If you pull the stick back they get smaller. If you keep pulling the stick for too long, they get bigger really fast!
So you mean I can fly my Corvette-ish sportplane with my lone existing hand (after, ofcourse, I have read the instruction manual in braille) and I don't even have to show up for a med-exam. Dude, this rocks!
This is good news for people like me who used to fly but had to give up our licenses due to overly restrictive Third Class Medical requirements.
...
I know there will be lot's of critics here, all spouting off about 9/11, but that's nonsense. Flying a small aircraft into a target does not cause similar damage. That was proven shortly after 9/11 when a teenager in Florida killed himself after trying to duplicate the events of 9/11, and it was a bigger plane than what is permitted by this new class of license.
As for using it to carry a bomb, another criticism frequently heard, this also is of no merit. The original World Trade Center attack was done with explosives in a van, similar to the Oklahoma City event. You can bring an explosive in a briefcase as well, possibly even a small nuclear device. You don't need an aircraft for that.
Finally, passing legislation allowing the FAA to oversee ultralights is a good thing. Previously, it was self regulated, with almost nothing in the FAR about them. This now allows the agency to oversee safety where there was previously no one there to do so. This may be bad, as well as good, because the FAA is not known for its speed when it comes to certification, but will help the general aviation industry and sport pilots in the long run.
As for pilot training for terrorists, I don't see anyone chasing after Microsoft for Flight Simulator
I also wonder if health insurance companies will treat sport pilots differently. My insurance specifically excludes flights in private aircraft that aren't scheduled commercial carriers. Would insurance companies start covering this if lots people begin to use it?
I have discovered a truly remarkable proof of this theorem that this sig is too small to contain.
...And in an apparent act of copycat terrorism, the Polish Terrorist Organization has hijacked the Goodyear blimp. They have been bouncing off buildings in downtown Manhatten for the past 2 hours.
- "Nobody came out that night, not one was ever seen. But Old Man Stauf is waiting there, crazy sick and mean!"
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
Not even close.
Ultralight limited to 55 mph vs this class at 120
Ultralight limited to 254 lbs dry weight vs this class at over 1200 lbs
Ultralights are pretty much toy looking, whereas these are "real" small aircraft.
The difference in size and performance is roughly the same ratio as Yugo vs Ford Exploder.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
http://www.eaa.org/
And there already was something like this in Canada. I could have got it starting at fourteen, and been flying by myself by now. I chose to wait until next summer, when I'll be 16, to start on the actual private pilots license. Why, you ask? Because I'll invariably want to move up to the next level (I'm even considering an aviaton career). Flying is so fun that this is like the free sample of crack given by a drug dealer.
Pilots (which I assume you are) need to take their superiority complex down a notch. Really, you're no better than anyone else, on the ground or the sky.
I beg to differ. I would argue that anyone who can pass his private pilot training is statistically less likely to kill himself and others while piloting an airplane. In that sense, pilots are "better". If you're talking about "better" in some other context, go play that game with someone else since you're obviously trolling.
And getting your license may not be "really that difficult", but it's also not really that affordable either.
I'm all for making it more affordable. Making it substantially less safe is not the right solution to that problem.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
IAHGP? (I am a hang glider pilot)
The US Hang Gliding Association (USHGA) had/has many concerns regarding the sport pilot program. Currently, hang glider and paraglider pilots fly under FAA part 103 which grants very liberal self-regulation to these pilots. One concern is that the sport pilot license is the beginning of the end to self-regulated hang glider/paraglider flight. The other problem is that it add stricter regulation for tow-parks such as Kitty Hawk Kites who tow hang gliders, which might hurt these outfits since they already have a tough time making money. There's also an often-ignored group of powered hang-glider's and powered paragliders that are like ultra-ultralights (sometimes <100lbs), who typically fly unregulated who may now need to have a sport pilot license, along with annual flight inspections, etc. That's a pain for something that fits in your trunk.
It is a double-edged sword, because some of these above groups fell into loopholes in the regulations, so the FAA's handling of thse groups may determine if the sport pilot license is a good thing or a bad thing.
Not exactly. Both Canada and the U.S. have different classes of medicals for different kinds of flying: a private pilot does not need to meet anywhere near the medical requirements of an airline pilot. In Canada (and I think, in the U.S.), there is also a Recreational Pilot Permit that requires only a note from the family doctor. The U.S. sport pilot license will take that one step further, requiring only that a person be medically qualified to hold a driver's license.
It's hard to say whether this new license will really matter much. People can already fly ultralights without a formal medical, so it will all come down to the people who want to fly something a bit bigger than an ultralight, but not much bigger, and who are medically fit to drive, but not medically fit to get a note from their family doctor for the Recreational Pilot Permit.
Newsflash!
The Belgian Terrorist Organization just attacked the French Eiffel Tower on a ultraglide.
One person is reported to be seriously injured.
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
...the eventual build-up of static electricity caused them to helplessly cling to one of them until they could be rescued by noticably giggling members of the NY fire department.
A goal is a dream with a deadline
These are the standard class aircraft that are considered to be sport pilot legal.
I recently obtained a Private Pilots license so the training is fresh in my head. I can't think of anything I studied or learned that would be a waste of time for light sport pilots.
As for the third class medical certificate required for Private Pilots, I really don't see what the big deal is. If you have a pulse and can see three feet in front of you can easily obtain one. Perhaps it is the cost? ($80)
I think what the FAA is saying with this designation is that since you will be flying a light aircraft that can do little damage to others - feel free to take your own risks.
And actually, the weight limit has been increased from the initial publication of specs to 1,320lbs. So some of the planes listed on the bottom half of the URL I posted are now legal as well.
>
>Newsflash!
>The Belgian Terrorist Organization just attacked the French Eiffel Tower on a ultraglide.
> One person is reported to be seriously injured.
I wish I had mod points today. You're absolutely correct.
After 15 years of flying I decided to get my CFI (Certificated Flight Instructor) rating. I was amazed at the amount of knowledge involved that I had come to take for granted.
Pilots do indeed learn a lot. They are more informed and skilled that non-pilots who fly other types of aircraft.
As for the expense, you'll spend about $4k to get your Private Pilot's license. How many slashdotters have spent that much on a computer or big-screen television? In the long run, that's not that much money. And you can keep current without breaking the bank.
The things you learn getting your private will be beneficial when flying a sport plane or ultralight.
Hot Damn! It's the Soggy Bottom Boys!
Simply not true - in fact I attended a talk by one of the investigators who was contracted by the NTSB.
John was flying a LongEZ - which is certainly not in the light sport plane class. It is a pretty spiffy plane in the high performance general aviation class (though homebuilt).
The initial cause of failure was running one tank dry at low altitude (bad).
The tank selector valve is normally controlled by a pushrod, however that was disconnected in John's plane. Instead he had vice grips cliped to the valve which was now unreachable in flight (bad).
John apparently disconnected his seat belt/harness so he could reach the fuel selector by diving over the back seat (bad).
Sudden shift to an aft CG (bad).
Steep decent into water without a seat belt (bad). (At this point the plane was still perfectly okay, no structural failures occured until impact.)
When John ran out of gas at low altitude over water by a beach, he should have ditched. Ditching is normally not the best choice for emergency landings, but this particular design floats and does not tend to flip over. At low altitude he should not have tried to fix all his mistakes, he should just land the plane.
I've flown in a number of LongEZs and they are great planes. Designed sold/by Burt Rutan (of Spaceship One/Voyager fame).
The parent poster knows not of what he speaks.
If you are curious about homebuilt aircraft (not light sport aircraft) check out my builders log: http://www.geeksville.com/plane
Mind you, I'm in Canada and we already have something like this called an advanced ultralight since the early 90s.
You'd think that in these days the Ministry of Home Defense (zieg heil!) this kind of thing wouldn't come to pass.
--
If I actually could spell I'd have spelled it right in the first place.
weather phenomena known as "Cumulus Granite"
That's why I like to fly with a GPS and TOPO map running on a laptop. When the altitude on the GPS matches the altitude on the map, you better have the landing gear down. The TOPO map is very good at seeing the granite clouds that you might not see through the condensed water vapor clouds.
I don't condone flying IFR when you are only permitted to fly VFR. It's just a backup just in case... Really.
The truth shall set you free!
I thought we were supposed to invade normandy? http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/reference/normandy/norm andy.htm
I think it is a bit more than this. My understanding of the SPL is that it will allow people to fly small airplanes locally, bypassing much of the training required for the PPL (like cross country (distance greater than 50 miles) training. These new pilots will also not be allowed to fly at night, or over 10000 feet.
Since a lot of people get their license then tend to stay in the local area, hopping to familiar airports for lunch, this is a good option for them.
From Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association Light Sport Aircraft are aircraft that are too large to be considered an ultralight or aircraft that do not meet the "51%" requirement to be considered an amateur homebuilt airplane, and are only simple, low-performance, low-energy, aircraft limited to two occupant seats. Light Sport aircraft is defined as a simple, low-performance, low-energy aircraft that is limited to -- 1,232 lbs. maximum certificated gross weight two-occupant seating a single engine (non-turbine) a stall speed of 39 knots with lift enhancing devices or 45 knots without. maximum airspeed of 115 knots fixed landing gear
- Maximum weight of 1,320 lbs. [I'm unsure if this is dry weight or maximum takeoff weight]
- Maximum of two occupants
- Single non-turbine engine
- Stall speed of 45 knots [I assume this is the maximum allowed stall speed, lower should be OK]
- Maximum airspeed of 120 knots
- Fixed landing gear
- Not a helicopter or powered lift aircraft
The maximum weight rule is the real big question here. If it's dry weight then it'll be a lot easier to build one that can carry a useful cargo say 500 lbs of people + luggage. If the weight allowance has to include fuel + payload, then you're going to have a lot harder time building something which looks like a real airplane instead of a kite with a leafblower strapped to it.I'm waiting to see what Burt Ruttan comes up with in this category -- if anyone can design a practical aircraft to these specs, he can.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
The government announced a series of additional "sport" licenses with more lenient prerequisites:
* Sport Coroner
* Sport Patent Attorney
* Sport CPA
* Sport CIA Operative
* Sport Journalist
* Sport Software Engineer
* Sport President
Actually, your comment is completely ridiculous. You're right, there was a collision between an airliner and a private airplane. Who's fault was it? The fault was placed on the airline pilot, not the private pilot.
As I recall, it was near an airport. The tower told the airliner to look for the traffic. The airliner responded that they had visual separation with the private plane. The private plane continued on it's given course and the airliner struck the private aircraft. The pilots of the airliner were responsible because they were supposed to be maintaining 'visual separation'.
Your post also demonstrates your complete lack of awareness of how the Federal Airspace System works. As a pilot, I can tell you that mid-airs between LSA (light-sport-aircraft) and airliners will most likely never happen. Airliners cruise at 18,000/ft and above and LSA aircraft will be lucky to cruise at 8,000/ft. Any aircraft entering class B or C airspace (the airspace around busy airports) will be under RADAR survelliance and will be seen as soon as they breach the airspace. There are generally three or four controllers watching airspace around busy airports. They usually get one small section of airspace to monitor so they know what every plane in their airspace is doing.
LSA aircraft will not be using large airports. They will be using smaller community airports.
Get a grip man, and don't complain about things you DON'T understand because it tends to just create FUD (and therefore difficulty) for those of us that enjoy flying.
I can't believe how many post there are from non-aero people! Don't be afraid!
This new catagory makes a lot of sense. The people going for this don't need a medical. You don't need needless extra training for this type of aircraft. Why get cerified for multi-engineed, high horsepower and complex type aircraft if you're going to fly an experimental home built that is just above an ultralight? Some things to remember are that there are a lot of restrictions on this certificate compared to a full private certificate. Aircraft size, weight, passengers, night flying, no towered airports, among others are all regulated and stricter than other certificates.
I have a Quad City Challenger that is almost completed and it does not qualify for an ultralight aircraft. it has a little too much horsepower (55-60 hp), too much fuel capacity (10 gal) and it can handle two people. I was going to get a full private license but might opt for Light Sport instead.
You can always keep building up hours and test for the next higher certificate.
Most of the pilots I know who fly planes like mine already have full private certificates but have "downgraded" to aircraft like mine. The reason is that they are a blast to fly and cost a fraction to maintain compared to larger aircraft. Most of these guys used to own a Cessna 17_ or 18_.
I was actually advised by more than a few light aircraft pilots not to train in a Cessna if all I was going to do was fly my Challenger. The reason is the Cahllenger is a lot more responsive than most other aircraft and many pilots have problems moving "down" to a Challenger. I have found a CFI who is going to train me in a Challenger and I couldn't be more happy.
If this helps curb some fears of the non-aero people posting here, many light aircraft are equipped with ballistic recovery parachutes. It's a parachute for the entire aircraft only to be deployed in the event of a catastophic failure. I have one for mine. Check them out at http://brsparachutes.com/
Remember, it's in the pilot's/builder's best interest to build a plane well and fly it well. You can't just hop out at 10,000 feet and say "Okay, I'm done now. Let's call it off".
Critical thinking isn't your strong suit, is it?
The fact is it's very easy to rent a small 2 or 4 seat cesna in this country - this law makes it no easier to use a plane in a terrorist attack.
What this law does is open the skies to a much larger group of americans - and is an acknowledgement that we are not a nation under seige - a belief that morons like you cannot seem to understand.
Pull you head out of the tv news and realize that Ashcroft and company want you to be afraid.
The only reason this country will be attacked again is if we keep trying to impose our values on the middle east (ala support of isreal and invasion of iraq).
Personally its not God I dislike, its his fan club I cant stand (bash.org)
1 knot == 1.15MPH approx.
120kt == max airframe speed == if you're going this fast already and then, say, dive with power, the plane BREAKS, probably fatally == 138MPH
45kt == stall speed == speed at which plane turns into a rock == 52MPH
Both of these characteristics make the sport-light plane more demanding than the no-license-required ultralight but still pretty docile. Limiting the max speed makes it easier to transition from a cruise flight configuration to maneuvering flight, such as when preparing to land. Lowering the stall speed gives the pilot more time to make glide path and runway alignment corrections while descending to the runway, plus it makes controlling the airplane easier once back down on sweet, sweet earth. I love flying, but I really love landing.
Regards the P-51 -- I don't think you should fly anything without proper training, license requirement or no. And the Curtis P-51 requires more training than most. So nothing changes on September 1st regards that daydream for either of us, *sigh*.
Regards self-transportation -- you're right, most light-sport pilots won't be flying to work every day, but not because of speed constraints. Meteorological conditions vs. pilot training level are mainly what impose limitations on utility. There are lots of days when you can't be sure the visibility will hold along your entire route -- and there is no light-sport 'instrument' rating -- so it's best to not have a rigid itinerary when yer flyin' for fun in case you have to divert to your secondary destination.
I, for one, welcome my fellow sport-plane-flying overlords...