Hollywood and NFL Fight TiVo

An anonymous reader writes "MSNBC/Washington Post is reporting that the NFL and tinseltown have asked the FCC to stop TiVo from expanding its service to include the ability to transfer recordings to PC's and other remote devices. TiVo says the system is secure. I say its source code will end up on the box. You do the math."

Comments

Go ReplayTV!

[Noksagt]

Without the mindshare and press of Tivo, ReplayTV has sported this feature for a long time. Ownere preemptively filed suit to make sure they could legally use show-sharing.

Re:Go ReplayTV!

[The Lynxpro]

"Without the mindshare and press of Tivo, ReplayTV has sported this feature for a long time. Ownere preemptively filed suit to make sure they could legally use show-sharing."

Yes, and that's also the feature that bankrupted SonicBlue. Replay is now on its third corporate parent thanks to the failure of branding, simplicity, etc. that TiVo captured. TiVo has 1.6 million subscribers; how many does Replay have? The last time I heard, Replay peaked at 200k. And the only person I know that owns one is Brentano on G4TechTV's "The Screen Savers." And TiVo and Replay have both been on the market roughly the same amount of years.

Re:Go ReplayTV!

[Noksagt]

Unfortunately not--it was voluntarily and prematurely ended by the media companies. They agreed not to sue Replay owners, but the legality of Tivo or others using the same technology wasn't tested. See EFF for more information.

Too Hard to Regulate

[artlu]

If the FCC/NFL is that parnoid about TIVO then they would also have to requisitiona ll video card manufacturers to not include video inputs on their cards. I would assume that most of the information going to computers and then torrent sites are coming from video in cards and not TIVO. On the other hand, I definitely feel bad for advertisers because TIVO could potential hurt their effectiveness, and ads make the world go around. No ads. No Slashdot.

GroupShares Inc. - A Free and Interactive Stock Market Community

Re:Too Hard to Regulate

[tomhudson]

Interestingly enough, the same story mentions a bill that codifies into law your right to kill off objectional material. Maybe objectionable material can include, for example, advertising to minors.

Meanwhile, yesterday, the House Judiciary Committee approved a bill that would significantly broaden user rights. The bill would exempt from copyright law technologies enabling users to zap objectionable parts of shows and movies so the programming can be viewed by children.

Re:Too Hard to Regulate

[stanmann]

Like the RIAA the NFL isn't interested in STOPPING piracy or copying, but simply making it non-trivial. SO they go after TIVO and Kazaa, but ignore video cards and FTP/NNTP. WHy? because it's counterproductive to sue NVIDIA/ATI or Worldnet/AOL. So they are wisely(?) picking only battles where they can achieve a public win. And they are picking battles where they can stop the "average" consumer from making the copies. Remember the Betamax decision?? they can't afford another one. so they can only go after "substantially infringing" media. So, Can they stop TIVO?? perhaps, perhaps not, depends on whether or not the judge(if it gets that far) determines that the "secure" copy to PC has substantial non-infringing uses.

Don't need a Tivo....

[jsimon12]

Last time I checked "Computer Enthusiasts" didn't need a Tivo to capture TV shows and share them. Not to mention the fact that time-shifting is legal. What is next, garrote survivors suing companies that make wire?

If not for Tivo....

[Dark Paladin]

Millions of people wouldn't have known what Janet Jackson's left breast looked like.

I only know because I was out of the room during the halftime show, missed it, had no idea what occured, then within hours had various friends of mine with PVR's sending me the files via email.

And all I could think as I looked at them was "Eh - my wife's are better. And probably more real."

Re:If not for Tivo....

[fupeg]

I call bullshit. Let's see your wife's breasts so we can all judge for ourselves.

Re:If not for Tivo....

[gosand]

Millions of people wouldn't have known what Janet Jackson's left breast looked like.

It was the right one. Not that I noticed or anything.

Amazing

[WindBourne]

With each new iteration of technology, new features get added to media. Witness VCR -> DVD. Each time, the media fight it and try to gain control. So far, they have always lost. and when doing so, it turns out that the new features actually helped the media companies , not hurt them. And in spite of a long history of being wrong about it each and every single time, they still wish to try and control it. Insanity at its best.

It remains to be seen how many politicians have been bought.

Only 144 hours to transfer a football game ..

[burgburgburg]

to another registered machine in a different time zone where the game is blacked out? It's like they're just opening the barn doors and letting the horses run free? Where's the concern for the poor copyright holders rights? This will bankrupt the NFL and Hollywood in short order (if we assume that a over 50 decades qualifies as short order).

It's Capitalism. Get over it

[LehiNephi]

TiVo, with its associated abundance of convenient features, is merely the response of a free market to a real demand. Keep in mind these facts:

1.) People like certain shows, so they buy a TV.
2.) These shows are only shown on cable, so people subscribe to a cable service.
3.) People can't always watch those shows when the shows are broadcast, so they buy a VCR.
4.) People (in general) don't want to watch commercials, so they buy a TiVo.(I'm not saying that it's the only reason people buy it, it's just one)

With each step, the monetary expense increases. But consumers consider it worth the money. One major problem I see here, however, is that cable channels (in the beginning) were commercial-free. They were paid for by the subscription fees. Now, not only do you have to pay the cable company more than ever to watch the same shows, you now have a third of your time wasted by commercials.

This is why TiVo is becoming more popular. It's convenient. Someone needs to explain that term to the RIAA and MPAA.

Reality to NFL and HOLLY WOULD

[Sfing_ter]

That ship has sailed.
The cat is out of the bag.
The gate is open on the corral.
Been there, done that.

Zoidberg: That's why I love Earth. You can do what you want, and no one makes you feel guilty, because no one cares.
Fry: We're not listening!
Zoidberg: That's what I'm talking about!

And frankly, that's it... I have been able to do it with vhs for years, and I will continue to do it with new technology. I have my pvr card so FOAH. I record movies, ppv movies, tv shows et. and it is none of your bizness. I keep what I want.

I am not listening, I am acting.

If it comes to my tv it's for my enjoyment period.
If you don't want me to have it, don't show it.

I don't understand the NFL's concerns

[angle_slam]

The NFL, the largest and most popular sport league in the US, is concerned that someone might TiVo a game and send it to someone else. Why? A game is only useful if it is live. Even a 1 hour delay makes the game's value nearly nil.

There are two reasons a fan would want a TiVo'd game. (1) the game isn't broadcast in their area. E.g., a Steelers fan who lives in Nebraska might not get the Steelers on their TV. The solution: NFL Sunday Ticket. "But that's exclusive to DirecTV?" says the NFL. Well whose fucking fault is that. There are plenty of people who would be willing to pay for NFL Sunday Ticket if it were available through Cable companies. They can't because the greedy NFL signs a multi-billion dollar contract with DirecTV. (I want Sunday Ticket, but my apartment faces north. I can't get DirecTV.)

(2) the game is blacked out. A Steelers fan might not see the Steelers because the game is blacked out. Actually, the Steelers are a bad example because they haven't been blacked out in 30 years. So let's use the Cardinals. Their home games are never broadcast in Phoenix because they never come close to selling out. The whole purpose of the blackout policy is to force fans to buy tickets to prevent the blackout. It obviously doesn't work because the Cards still only get 30,000 fans per game. So why do they still use this outdated, policy that doesn't work? None of the other major sports black out home game.

The NFL can end the market for Tivo'd games by merely offering NFL Sunday Ticket to all cable companies and ending the blackout policy that doesn't work.

Dammit dammit dammit!

[jeblucas]

I feel like a sheep. Like I'm just being sheparded around told what to like, how to like it, and how long to like it before have my hindquarters slapped over to the next pasture. "You're done enjoying that NFL game. Go watch this now." Everytime a company comes along and says "hey, we're not trying to screw you, do what you want," a thousand other companies come out of the woodwork to shout them down. This is just part-and-parcel with the following other travesties:

• VoIP must be stopped! It lets people make phone calls without paying someone [other than the broadband provider]!
• Making people pay [a fortune] for commercial television. I remember when people thought it was okay to pay for cable because you got things like HBO, which didn't have commercials. HBO still doesn't have commercials, but it's still an extra $12/mo on your $60 cable bill.
• When did ease-of-use become piracy? I used to make mixtapes for girlfriends. I had the Jerky Boys calls on some umpteenth generation copy of a copy. I don't remember anyone up in arms about this--the Jerky Boys got a movie deal out of that underground phenomenon. Now that I can easily make a share a mix it's illegal?

Don't give up everyone. Write your Congressperson. Some of you live in Utah. Do something about it.

Hollywood/NFL Living in The Past

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

It's time for hollywood, NFL,RIAA and others to wake up and smell the CPU cycles.
People want to record TV shows,films and radio broadcasts. Not because they're freeloaders. It's because they like TV and want to watch it again. If you can't accept this and make money off it, then you have a poor business model and deserve to get driven out of business by smarter competetors.

The mass media have made money for one simple reason. They had a monopoly on the production and distrobution technologies of the media. Only they could afford radio towers, film reels and copying technology. Through this they have also maintained a monopsony over the base talent which they promote. Hence the low signal to noise ratio on TV and radio. Now, thanks to technology, even your average joe sixpack has the technology to copy a TV broadcast of music track. TiVo has given him the power to record the game, the soaps, the news, so he can watch them again. Does this mean we should shut down TiVo so the monopoly can continue?

HDD based TV recorders. MPAA and NFL want to shut them down because they encourage 'theft' of signals floating around in peoples homes. Nonsense. They just wish to maintain a monopoly over the distribution of their content, so they can jack up the price for their wares.

They deserve to be driven out of business.

If you want an example of a company that is using peoples wants and likes to make money out of HDD recorders, look no further than Sky+. Sky actually encourage people to record TV shows and are making a mint off it.

Put that in your smoke and pipe in NFAA!!! :E

Re:let me beat the mythtv diy PVR drum =)

[enrico_suave]

I'll play your game rogue...

There ARE easy to setup PC PVR options. I shlopped a PVR350 in a box paired with SageTV (review) and it was pretty simple.

The cost thing is a valid concern. There is potentially a larger initial cash outlay (but no subscription fees.)

With that said the DirectTV deals with Tivo (which are they still being offered? Didnt't DTV and tivo have a bitter divorce quite publiclly last month?) ARE a great value if you go the satellite route. Dual tuning, digital only stream, Tivo ease of use, low subscription...

But out of the box without modification (software or hardware) you can't get the content off your DTV tivo box, which is the point of this article.

Another compelling reason is if you are a paranoid schizo and don't trust TiVo (no matter WHAT their privacy statements say, and oh by the way they can change them at any time) about collecting info on your viewing habits... if you DIY you can have more control over what goes in and out of your DIY PVR (unless you tape MTV, I can't help the GIGO there)

Note: I own and love my tivo and don't wear a tinfoil hat, just thought I point it out as a potential reasoning.

Now if Dishnetwork and DirectTV would supply the needed daughter cards/access cards to digital satellite PCI PVR cards we wouldn't be able to argue about the "re-encoding digital content" issue. (you can use those cards in Europe with subscription satellite services, but not here, from what I understand)

*shrug* YMMV,

e.

Re:Suggestion for a new business model

[embo]

This is a fantastic idea. And it will never happen. Why? Because no matter how cheap you make it, there will still be people who won't pay a fucking nickel to see the show, and will want to get it for free. And there will always be enough of them to discourage the purveyors of said media from doing something like this.

The minute you open this up for a nickel a show, there will be free copies of the same thing out on the P2P networks, because people would rather spend the extra time thinking they are getting it for free than they would to take the time to pay the nickel for seeing the show. Say all you want about people being willing to pay for it. There are still going to be enough who aren't, because people, for the most part, suck.