TiVo Bug Shuts Out Many Series 1 TiVo Owners?

Didion Sprague writes "A bug in recently released DirecTv/TiVo software is allegedly causing major chaos with many TiVo users -- forcing many users over the past few days to upgrade their Series 1 Tivo boxes to newer, Series 2 models (which retail for $79). Apparently lots of folks on the TiVo Community forum and DBS forums are frustrated and angry. The bug has apparently been reproduced and causes the video stream to freeze when a combination of factors are met. DirecTv has been offering users who complain a $79 credit -- but hasn't admitted the problem, let alone offered up a timetable for a fix. The problem only occurs with the DirecTv TiVo boxes -- not the standalone models."

Comments

More Sales!

[mfh]

> A bug in recently released DirecTv/Tivo software is allegedly causing major chaos with many Tivo users -- forcing many users over the past few days to upgrade their Series 1 Tivo boxes to newer, Series 2 models

Now there's a bug they'll rush to fix! /bender

Huh

[iamdrscience]

A bug that causes old users to pay to upgrade? Doesn't sound like a bug at all, sounds more like a business strategy.

Not as big a deal as story suggests

[mabu]

This appears to be an isolated issue that has only affected a small number of owners of much older Tivos (and in reality, ones that probably have a bunch of weird hacks). I'm sure Tivo is going to fix it, and the bug seems to be so obscure, it's probably wise of them to wait before even acknowledging it, especially when there's a chance the bug isn't related to a standard Tivo setup.

If anything, this underlines the value of not plugging your Tivo in and having it automatically update itself. I've left my Tivo unplugged for more than six months and it continues to work fine. There's not often a need for software upgrades.

It's also worth noting that a lot of the posters in the Tivo Community, when confronted with this "bug" used it as reasoning to run out and pick up the new Series 2 units for $79 -- you know you've got a great product with loyal users when, upon confronted with a bug, they purchase more of your products!

Re:Not as big a deal as story suggests

[hawkbug]

Ok, in this case Sony SAT-T60 (and other DTV gen 1 tivos) needed this new upgrade to resolve guide issues about acuiring data, and some other closed captioning issues. I have the Sony SAT-T60, and I know a lot of other people who also have it, and are having this problem. You said:

"This appears to be an isolated issue that has only affected a small number of owners of much older Tivos (and in reality, ones that probably have a bunch of weird hacks). I'm sure Tivo is going to fix it, and the bug seems to be so obscure, it's probably wise of them to wait before even acknowledging it, especially when there's a chance the bug isn't related to a standard Tivo setup."

I guess if you call rain an isolated issue, you don't live in Seattle or any other place where it rains a lot. For the majority of people who own these boxes, this is an annoying issue that I hope they resolve quickly. And for the record, it has NOTHING to do with "weird hacks" as you put it. The problem 100% does exist with a standard Tivo set up, so don't minimize the effects of the problem for all of us who actually have to deal with it until Tivo fixes the issue.

Details on how to reproduce:

[Otto]

First, get the 3.1.0c software.

Then Dan Collins posts this tidbit of info that might help somebody figure this one out:

I spent some time this morning trying to force the problem to occur, and finally was successful. The ONLY scenario that reproduced the problem on one of my Hughes Series 1 was as follows:

-A recording must be executing on at least one tuner
-Signal quality must degrade to the point of causing severe digital artifacts WITHOUT a loss of signal lock
-The poor signal quality must persist for at LEAST 15 seconds
-The signal must then cut out completely on BOTH tuners
-The recording must STILL be going on when signal is restored

I was NOT able to reproduce the problem when any one of these factors were missing. For example, if the recording ended before signal was restored - no problem. Or, if I just pulled the coax out of the receiver jacks and then reconnected - no problem.

The result was that, after meeting all of these conditions, on at least one of the tuners, after channel acquisition, the A/V would play normally for a second or three, then the video would freeze, while audio continues. Invoking the OSG, or pressing info would "unfreeze" the video for a second or two. This leads me to believe that it is NOT a problem with the state of the MPEG decoders, but rather a problem confined to the software itself.

So, this seems to be a rather specific set of conditions that must come together to cause this problem.

BTW: I reproduced the problem by installing variable resistors in the coax feeds and gradually increasing the resistance until signal lock was lost.

Coincidence

[SteroidMan]

Is it a mere coincidence that this is the platform most favored by Tivo hackers for getting access to the unadulterated data stream from DirecTv. Perhaps, but I doubt it.

Damn!

[wurp]

Somebody hire that guy!

Lifetime service

[Otto]

I got my parents a D-Tivo back when they were new. Got it directly from Tivo, in fact, before they actually hit shelves. Anyway, I also got the Lifetime Service for it.

I'd lose that Lifetime Service if I upgraded them to a Series 2 unit. Not a good option, as I dislike extra monthly fees, especially if they have to pay them. It was a gift, I don't like giving gifts that cost money.

Anyway, if my parents start experiencing the problem, I'll downgrade them to 3.1.0b, lock the software, and bypass the protections to disable the nag screen. Upgrading to a Series 2 is simply not an option, unless they can somehow keep the lifetime service on the new box.

Re:Lifetime service

[Jonathan_S]

I'd lose that Lifetime Service if I upgraded them to a Series 2 unit.

Actually you wouldn't. When DirecTV took over the DTiVo service from TiVo (the same time the monthly fee dropped to $4.95) they modified how the lifetime service works. You can't buy lifetime anymore, but for everyone who already purchased it that service switched from being tied to a specific receiver to being tied to the DirecTV account.

So as long as you don't cancel your DirecTV account any DTiVos you have will have lifetime service (possible limit of 8 per account), even if you remove your original DTiVo from the account.

seriously

[brandannnnnn]

i want to read this thread but i don't have the time. i'll just tivo it.

Re:Who cares?

[Jahf]

Actually there are very good reasons to not want to do this. I happen to have one of the newer units, but folks who have a series 1:

* May have dozens (or over a hundred if they upgraded their drive) of hours of programming on the unit.

* Will have to spend at least a couple of hours adding their old season passes, preferences and such to the system and things like their "thumbs" ratings will be lost forever.

* Could have installed / enabled hacks that are simply not feasible on the series 2 (and in the case of a few things like caller ID on some of the older units, are simply not possible on the newer units)

* Will not see a significant performance boost from the new hardware ... series 2 units have more impressive specifications for RAM and CPU but in reality they don't do much to speed things up ... so there is no significant need to upgrade.

All of the above combine for some very powerful reasons to not want to upgrade. DirecTV and TiVo could have architected things differently so that season passes and preferences were archived on the dial-up server, which would have alleviate #2 above, but otherwise there is not much that can be done to make this a painless process.

It's not like buying a new TV or a new receiver ... in many ways it is more like having to replace a dead hard drive in your PC (or your PC itself but without a significant speed increase) and never having been -able- to back up your data.

The only real advantages I see in going from a Series 1 to a Series 2 box:

* You get a couple of USB ports that, unlike standalone TiVos, DirecTV purposefully does not enable (on standalones you can use them for USB networking, removing the need for a phone line to the system)

* You will continue to get updates after DirecTV stops sending out system updates to Series 1 units ... but that is no big deal right now since DirecTV is FAR behind standalone TiVo software versions (as in version 4.0 + HMO, which is now standard and free on standalones, is not available for DirecTV users)

* You get a system with more CPU (but less ways to use it due to a dearth of hacks for the Series 2 ... yes, I know, alot of the hacks can be done but overall most people find the Series 2 too much of a pain to hack).

So needless to say, there is no burning need to upgrade to the Series 2. To the HD TiVo, yes, but that is MUCH more expensive.

Is this a conspiracy to force people to upgrade as others have suggested? Hell no ... DirecTV is not getting anything from such a mess but bad press. But it's also not a benefit to the people affected to get the discounted/free new unit either.

Just got of the phone with DTV customer service

[allism]

Called (800)DIRECTV, asked to speak to a CSR supervisor, was connected to a woman named Jill. She denied any knowledge of the issue and kept insisting that I call Sony. I did talk her into issuing a $79 credit (which is what we paid for a new unit Sunday since we didn't want to risk missing Six Feet Under). She claimed that they are getting NO calls regarding this issue and that there is no way DirecTV is responsible. I offered to point her to some websites where people have carefully documented the problem and what causes it, including what software version caused this, but she wasn't interested in any websites that weren't sponsored by DirecTV.

So, everyone, please call and ask to speak to Jill the customer service supervisor to let them know this is happening to you too, since she is obviously unaware of the issue.