TiVo Bug Shuts Out Many Series 1 TiVo Owners?

Didion Sprague writes "A bug in recently released DirecTv/TiVo software is allegedly causing major chaos with many TiVo users -- forcing many users over the past few days to upgrade their Series 1 Tivo boxes to newer, Series 2 models (which retail for $79). Apparently lots of folks on the TiVo Community forum and DBS forums are frustrated and angry. The bug has apparently been reproduced and causes the video stream to freeze when a combination of factors are met. DirecTv has been offering users who complain a $79 credit -- but hasn't admitted the problem, let alone offered up a timetable for a fix. The problem only occurs with the DirecTv TiVo boxes -- not the standalone models."

Comments

More Sales!

[mfh]

> A bug in recently released DirecTv/Tivo software is allegedly causing major chaos with many Tivo users -- forcing many users over the past few days to upgrade their Series 1 Tivo boxes to newer, Series 2 models

Now there's a bug they'll rush to fix! /bender

Huh

[iamdrscience]

A bug that causes old users to pay to upgrade? Doesn't sound like a bug at all, sounds more like a business strategy.

Not as big a deal as story suggests

[mabu]

This appears to be an isolated issue that has only affected a small number of owners of much older Tivos (and in reality, ones that probably have a bunch of weird hacks). I'm sure Tivo is going to fix it, and the bug seems to be so obscure, it's probably wise of them to wait before even acknowledging it, especially when there's a chance the bug isn't related to a standard Tivo setup.

If anything, this underlines the value of not plugging your Tivo in and having it automatically update itself. I've left my Tivo unplugged for more than six months and it continues to work fine. There's not often a need for software upgrades.

It's also worth noting that a lot of the posters in the Tivo Community, when confronted with this "bug" used it as reasoning to run out and pick up the new Series 2 units for $79 -- you know you've got a great product with loyal users when, upon confronted with a bug, they purchase more of your products!

Re:Not as big a deal as story suggests

[ePhil_One]

This appears to be an isolated issue that has only affected a small number of owners of much older Tivos (and in reality, ones that probably have a bunch of weird hacks).

For the record, the only hack my Sony T-60 has is a 120Gb drive in lieu of the original 40GB (I storage in case of disaster). I've been getting this weird bahavior occasionally too, just hadn't thought to check the forums because it hasn't hit me too much, beyond nearly sending me into tears when a got a big

Your TiVo has experienced serious errors. Please leave your Tivo connected to the phone line for the next three hours while we attempt a repair. If the problem persists, please call (xxx) xxx-xxxx"

So I went to bed

Re:Not as big a deal as story suggests

[mabu]

f you haven't plugged it in for 6 mths, how are you getting tv schedule updates? If I leave mine unplugged for more than 2 weeks I run out of data and it stops recording. I guess I could do it by time but then it is just a basic vcr.

The DirecTV Tivo gets program schedules via satellite. The only thing you need the phone line for is software updates and PPV stuff. If you don't use PPV, you probably never have to plug it in.

Although, it's not a bad idea to do the updates. I finally let mine phone home and the next day I saw some new features, but I like the idea of waiting until the mainstream has evaluated a patch before applying it, at least in a case like this where it's less likely to be a security issue.

Re:Not as big a deal as story suggests

[hawkbug]

Ok, in this case Sony SAT-T60 (and other DTV gen 1 tivos) needed this new upgrade to resolve guide issues about acuiring data, and some other closed captioning issues. I have the Sony SAT-T60, and I know a lot of other people who also have it, and are having this problem. You said:

"This appears to be an isolated issue that has only affected a small number of owners of much older Tivos (and in reality, ones that probably have a bunch of weird hacks). I'm sure Tivo is going to fix it, and the bug seems to be so obscure, it's probably wise of them to wait before even acknowledging it, especially when there's a chance the bug isn't related to a standard Tivo setup."

I guess if you call rain an isolated issue, you don't live in Seattle or any other place where it rains a lot. For the majority of people who own these boxes, this is an annoying issue that I hope they resolve quickly. And for the record, it has NOTHING to do with "weird hacks" as you put it. The problem 100% does exist with a standard Tivo set up, so don't minimize the effects of the problem for all of us who actually have to deal with it until Tivo fixes the issue.

Details on how to reproduce:

[Otto]

First, get the 3.1.0c software.

Then Dan Collins posts this tidbit of info that might help somebody figure this one out:

I spent some time this morning trying to force the problem to occur, and finally was successful. The ONLY scenario that reproduced the problem on one of my Hughes Series 1 was as follows:

-A recording must be executing on at least one tuner
-Signal quality must degrade to the point of causing severe digital artifacts WITHOUT a loss of signal lock
-The poor signal quality must persist for at LEAST 15 seconds
-The signal must then cut out completely on BOTH tuners
-The recording must STILL be going on when signal is restored

I was NOT able to reproduce the problem when any one of these factors were missing. For example, if the recording ended before signal was restored - no problem. Or, if I just pulled the coax out of the receiver jacks and then reconnected - no problem.

The result was that, after meeting all of these conditions, on at least one of the tuners, after channel acquisition, the A/V would play normally for a second or three, then the video would freeze, while audio continues. Invoking the OSG, or pressing info would "unfreeze" the video for a second or two. This leads me to believe that it is NOT a problem with the state of the MPEG decoders, but rather a problem confined to the software itself.

So, this seems to be a rather specific set of conditions that must come together to cause this problem.

BTW: I reproduced the problem by installing variable resistors in the coax feeds and gradually increasing the resistance until signal lock was lost.

Re:Details on how to reproduce:

[Frizzle Fry]

This post wasn't nearly so exciting as the subject line led me to expect.

Since

[OverlordQ]

hitting a php/*sql forum isn't a nice thing to do, I got a static copy of the linked to page.

tinfoil hat

[moojuece]

not one to normally put much weight in crazy conspiracy theories, it does seem a bit odd to me that they have this new bug which forces an upgrade, and they are crediting users the cost of the upgrade....seems to me for some reason they want users to upgrade....what new 'features' does the series 2 have that they can give free upgrades?

Re:tinfoil hat

[Rude Turnip]

I think it's mostly for the purpose of DirecTV not having their customers defect to the competition, period.

Coincidence

[SteroidMan]

Is it a mere coincidence that this is the platform most favored by Tivo hackers for getting access to the unadulterated data stream from DirecTv. Perhaps, but I doubt it.

Damn!

[wurp]

Somebody hire that guy!

Consumers Win

[usefool]

At first glance, it did look like a force-upgrade stunt pulled by TIVO.

However, if DirecTv has been offering users who complain a $79 credit , I can't see why consumers do not want to take this opportunity and upgrade to Series 2.

Lifetime service

[Otto]

I got my parents a D-Tivo back when they were new. Got it directly from Tivo, in fact, before they actually hit shelves. Anyway, I also got the Lifetime Service for it.

I'd lose that Lifetime Service if I upgraded them to a Series 2 unit. Not a good option, as I dislike extra monthly fees, especially if they have to pay them. It was a gift, I don't like giving gifts that cost money.

Anyway, if my parents start experiencing the problem, I'll downgrade them to 3.1.0b, lock the software, and bypass the protections to disable the nag screen. Upgrading to a Series 2 is simply not an option, unless they can somehow keep the lifetime service on the new box.

Re:Lifetime service

[Jonathan_S]

I'd lose that Lifetime Service if I upgraded them to a Series 2 unit.

Actually you wouldn't. When DirecTV took over the DTiVo service from TiVo (the same time the monthly fee dropped to $4.95) they modified how the lifetime service works. You can't buy lifetime anymore, but for everyone who already purchased it that service switched from being tied to a specific receiver to being tied to the DirecTV account.

So as long as you don't cancel your DirecTV account any DTiVos you have will have lifetime service (possible limit of 8 per account), even if you remove your original DTiVo from the account.

Re:Lifetime service

[walt-sjc]

Go on the vacation plan. It doesn't cancel service - just suspend.

seriously

[brandannnnnn]

i want to read this thread but i don't have the time. i'll just tivo it.

Re:LOLOL

[kmankmankman2001]

Dumbass. All Tivo's run Linux, always have.

Respect to the pioneers, but they're going bye bye

[t_allardyce]

How much longer 'til you can get a cheap PC & software solution that doesnt screw around and lets you do anything with the recordings? Once some relatively cheap (or free/oss) software comes out that will let you turn any cheap PC into a PVR, Tivo is gonna be screwed - big players will have to stick to the rules (broadcast flag, no sharing, and maybe abit of spying on what you watch) while all the cheapo/free solutions, (including your local store that will bundle some software) will get away with letting you do anything and wont screw you around with dailing home, bugs, and expensive upgrades. Does Tivo even have a DVD burner or ethernet export yet??

Re:Who cares?

[Jahf]

Actually there are very good reasons to not want to do this. I happen to have one of the newer units, but folks who have a series 1:

* May have dozens (or over a hundred if they upgraded their drive) of hours of programming on the unit.

* Will have to spend at least a couple of hours adding their old season passes, preferences and such to the system and things like their "thumbs" ratings will be lost forever.

* Could have installed / enabled hacks that are simply not feasible on the series 2 (and in the case of a few things like caller ID on some of the older units, are simply not possible on the newer units)

* Will not see a significant performance boost from the new hardware ... series 2 units have more impressive specifications for RAM and CPU but in reality they don't do much to speed things up ... so there is no significant need to upgrade.

All of the above combine for some very powerful reasons to not want to upgrade. DirecTV and TiVo could have architected things differently so that season passes and preferences were archived on the dial-up server, which would have alleviate #2 above, but otherwise there is not much that can be done to make this a painless process.

It's not like buying a new TV or a new receiver ... in many ways it is more like having to replace a dead hard drive in your PC (or your PC itself but without a significant speed increase) and never having been -able- to back up your data.

The only real advantages I see in going from a Series 1 to a Series 2 box:

* You get a couple of USB ports that, unlike standalone TiVos, DirecTV purposefully does not enable (on standalones you can use them for USB networking, removing the need for a phone line to the system)

* You will continue to get updates after DirecTV stops sending out system updates to Series 1 units ... but that is no big deal right now since DirecTV is FAR behind standalone TiVo software versions (as in version 4.0 + HMO, which is now standard and free on standalones, is not available for DirecTV users)

* You get a system with more CPU (but less ways to use it due to a dearth of hacks for the Series 2 ... yes, I know, alot of the hacks can be done but overall most people find the Series 2 too much of a pain to hack).

So needless to say, there is no burning need to upgrade to the Series 2. To the HD TiVo, yes, but that is MUCH more expensive.

Is this a conspiracy to force people to upgrade as others have suggested? Hell no ... DirecTV is not getting anything from such a mess but bad press. But it's also not a benefit to the people affected to get the discounted/free new unit either.

Re:they won't fix this...

[Dionysus]

i'm sure the type 2 has the ability to gather more data and keep users from personalizing their machines.

serie 2 has more capability that than serie 1, because most of the userhacks that people did for serie 1 has been implemented in serie 2. Still, serie 2 still give me the ability to install more hd capacity (even upgrade the kernel, since the kernel they're using, linux 2.4.18 or something, has an upper limit of 137 GB), telnet into the system, install tivoweb etc.

And the bug was just discovered. Give them some time to fix it before you decide to hang them.

Just got of the phone with DTV customer service

[allism]

Called (800)DIRECTV, asked to speak to a CSR supervisor, was connected to a woman named Jill. She denied any knowledge of the issue and kept insisting that I call Sony. I did talk her into issuing a $79 credit (which is what we paid for a new unit Sunday since we didn't want to risk missing Six Feet Under). She claimed that they are getting NO calls regarding this issue and that there is no way DirecTV is responsible. I offered to point her to some websites where people have carefully documented the problem and what causes it, including what software version caused this, but she wasn't interested in any websites that weren't sponsored by DirecTV.

So, everyone, please call and ask to speak to Jill the customer service supervisor to let them know this is happening to you too, since she is obviously unaware of the issue.

Sony T60 DirecTivo Remote kicks all forms of ass.

[slagheap]

I've had this box for 4 years and I can say without question that it has by far the best remote I've ever used. It's very comfortable in the hand, and I was using it by feel within hours of getting it.

I hope my box continues to work, because that's one thing a Series 2 box will not have. I recently got a Toshiba DVDivo (for a different TV) and the remote eats by comparison.

Slagheap

ROFL!

[apoplectic]

My significant other rocks!

She just posted how to get the $79 dollars...this after I spend 30 minutes chewing on someone at DirecTV with no luck. Jerk told me "Since it has a hard drive in it, it breaks often...you should throw it away" and "You can't believe what you read on the Internet -- there was that town with the styrofoam, you know? That town?" (he had no idea what the story was about...though I did) and repeatedly "There are 13 million people with DirecTivos" (He didn't believe me when I told him that his stat was out of whack).

The guy made me so mad that I refused to hang up at the end of the conversation...keeping the jerk on the phone. Not my style, but I was ticked off!

Sir, if I don't have a response in 30 seconds I'll have to disconnect

Hi.

Sir, if I don't have a response in 30 seconds I'll have to disconnect

Hi.
Wow, I can't remember ever being so uncool! Heck, toward the end of the conversation I believe I was indeed the jerk.

MythTV - better than TIVO if you're a geek

[poopie]

I'll second that.

MythTV is great and it's extensible - if you want to build your own PVR and you like Linux, then you'll like MythTV. It's not necessarily cheaper than a Tivo up front, but it's more flexible and extensible if you're into that sort of hacking thing ;)

Having just completed a MythTV box that now "owns" my TV, I can say it was more complicated, cost more, and took longer than I expected. I can also say that I'm very happy with what I have and what I can do with it, and the potential to add new features and functionality.

Installing MythTV takes some time. I recommend using one of the distros/guides below. Following these, most clueful people should be able to get MythTV running.

See:

MythTV Homepage
KnoppMyth - bootable MythTV
Jarod's Fedora/MythTV Homepage
Debian MythTV howto
Gentoo MythTV howto