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Australian Voting Software Goes Closed Source

Scott Ritchie ended up delivered an angry rebuttal to Friday's OSCON presentation on the credibility of election software: What's strange is that his rebuttal came in response to a talk he himself had just delivered. Ritchie doesn't have a split personality, and wasn't simply playing devil's advocate. He found himself, though, in the strange situation of having agreed (as a last minute stand-in) to deliver a presentation he hadn't yet had a chance to read, provided by Dr. Clive Boughton of Australian software developer Software Improvement. (Boughton is also a Computer Science lecturer at Australian National University.) Between agreeing to fill in and arriving at the conference, Ritchie found that Software Improvement was switching its eVACS voting software from a Free, open source software license (specifically, the GPL) to terms "even worse than that on MS's shared source," and decided to do something about it. (Read more below.)

From Diebold's last-minute installation of uncertified software updates on its touch-screen election machines in California (leading to decertification of the company's machines in several California counties) to ethically troublesome relationships between politicians and the companies whose machines count the votes that determine their employment, the possible benefits of electronic voting seem swamped at the moment by objections (from simply prudent to caustically cynical) to its security and integrity.

Within the world of electronic voting, though, eVACS (for "Electronic Voting and Counting System") has been a rare success story both for open source development methodology and for the benefits that electronic voting can offer. The first generation of eVACS (running on Debian Linux machines) was developed starting in March 2001 in response to a request for bids by the Australian Capitol Territory Electoral Commission (ACTEC), and it was done on a budget of only AUS$200,000.

(The Australian Capitol Territory includes Australia's capitol city, Canberra, as well as surrounding suburbs and Namadgi National Park.)

Besides a respectable list of features driven by ACTEC's initial requirements (like support for 12 voting languages, and audio support for blind voters), eVACS has an advantage not enjoyed by many electronic voting systems: it's been successfully, uneventfully used to gather votes in a national election. The election in which it played a part went smoothly, and the eVACS system itself functioned as hoped.

This year, though, ACTEC asked Software Improvement to update the code for future elections, and Software Improvement decided to go them one better -- or, in the eyes of open source enthusiasts, one worse. The notes Ritchie was provided to deliver announced a change to the process under which the code is released; specifically, a switch from an open source license to something the company calls "controlled open source."

According to Software Improvement, simply releasing election-machine code under a liberal license such as the GPL is undesirable for two reasons: it means a loss of the company's intellectual property, and unfettered access could lead to a compromise of the voting system, if a determined cracker could find and exploit flaws in the code. (Software Improvement has not supplied any examples to show that this has happened, however.)

The company's use of "open source" would find little support from organizations like the Free Software Foundation or the Open Source Initiative. Software Improvement's idea of software openness is rather limited. Claiming that open source development is insufficient, even inimical to creating trust in election systems, the company now says that portions of eVACS's codebase will be released only to approved analysts, and in encrypted form, to enable viewing only for auditing purposes, rather than code contribution. Repeated viewings would be reported to the company, and only a limited number of views would be permitted before the code would self-destruct.

After delivering the prepared presentation, Ritchie took a few minutes to react to the changes it announced.

"Six hours ago, while I was reading through this on the plane," said Ritchie, "I was infuriated to read what it actually says."

Ritchie, though, is a computer-literate political science student at the University of California - Davis, and behind the Open Vote Foundation. He said he's decided to resume the project represented on that site, started with the intent to fork and bring to the U.S. the first generation, GPL'd version of eVACS.

"A long time ago, I read the first news report about Diebold, wondered why we didn't have open source election software for our voting machines. Eventually, I found out that Australia had apparently beaten us to it. It seemed like a good thing; the eVACS system was developed and released as GPL code, it was checked and rechecked by computer science people and all kinds of election officials. I said, 'Why don't we bring this to the U.S.? It's GPL, let's do it.'"

So he started the nonprofit Open Vote Foundation to bring the software to the U.S., specifically to California. Ritchie went to the meeting at the California Attorney General's office which resulted in decertification of Diebold machines in that state's 2004 election process, and his involvement in the fight against Diebold's secret-source voting machines is what led him to the open source eVACS; now he finds that the restrictions on the formerly GPL software are "even worse that that on MS's shared source. To call that open source is a bit dishonest."

"As of 6 hours ago," he said, "I've decided to start that again. It's not that hard; I mean how hard is it to say 'add one to this vote'? ... I remembered my old plan, and thought 'Let's take the old Australian code, fork it, and work from that -- and that is still an option. This is the great thing about open source software. If the old lead developer goes insane, you can always fork it, right?"

96 of 567 comments (clear)

  1. His opening line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    "A Dingo Ate My Vote."

    1. Re:His opening line? by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Funny
      "A Dingo Ate My Vote."

      "To vote against the incumbent, hit the monkey!"

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:His opening line? by YOU+LIKEWISE+FAIL+IT · · Score: 5, Informative

      Jesus Christ on an electric moped, it's not a Seinfeld quote, it's not a quote from some fictional movie, the line "The dingo's got my baby!" and the movie it was drawn from ( "A Cry in the Dark", iirc ) were based around a real case - that of Lindy Chamberlain.

      This case was a total societal clusterfuck here in Australia. Half of the population believed in her story, and the other half thought she was full of it. Lindy ended up being found guilty of murder, and locked away for four years - after which her conviction was overturned ( and many people are still not convinced ).

      To give you an idea of just how deeply this event has graved itself into the national psyche, I was four months old when it happened, and even I can tell you the name of the baby in question ( Azaria ). I guess the closest comparison Americans could make would be the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby, although even that's not a real good fit.

      It's not really that funny! Bleah!

      --
      One god, one market, one truth, one consumer.
  2. When is civil disobedience justified? by revscat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have been wondering lately if phsyically damaging these machines is not justified in a system that is supposed to cherish democracy to such a high degree. Civil disobedience is justified in some cases, and I believe that the use of unverifiable electronic voting machines with known vulnerabilities is just such a case.

    Remember, Americans: Bring your voter registration card, and a sledgehammer for Diebold. They are stealing our freedom to vote, the very democracy over which so much blood has been spilled, and the corrupted political process is encouraging it via awarded contracts and almost silent acquiescence.

    This crosses political affiliations and affects all Americans. I strongly believe that this must be stopped it by all means necessary or we will lose the ability to collectively affect the policies of our country, no matter how small your individual voice might be. This is zealous, without a doubt, but not all zealotry is bad. "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice." And some things are too important to wait upon the justice system to work, even when it does. Sometimes men must take justice into their own hands.

    Live free or die.

    1. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by aussersterne · · Score: 5, Funny

      The patriotic one. You know, the one with the good hair. The one who was a member of Skull & Bones. The who's strong on defense, wants jobs for working Americans, has beautiful, intelligent daughters that love him, and still believes in the American dream.

      Oh, wait...

      --
      STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    2. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by jazmataz23 · · Score: 5, Informative
      Well, there's always just voting en masse via absentee ballot. I've already registered in NC, and they'll mail me my ballot in a couple weeks (fifty days from voting day, to be exact). Here's a clearinghouse of sorts with information for all fifty states. I've already posted as to my reasons for this here.

      Make sure your vote counts: make them count it by hand!

      jaz

      --
      Death to Argument by Slogan!! (This post twice-encrypted with ROT-13. Replies not using same will be ignored)
    3. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by TrentL · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'll destroy some machines if you let me blame it on you.

    4. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > When is civil disobedience justified?

      "Civil disobedience"? I do not think that means what you think it means.

      Time to take a few hours and (re)read your Thoreau and Ghandi; damaging voting machines has NOTHING to do with civil disobedience, despite how cool you think that phrase sounds.

    5. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yes, destroying the voting machines in not civil disobedience... turning them into a beowolf cluster to play Doom 3 on, now that is civil disobedience.

    6. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If everyone who actually disliked evil asshole 1 and 2 voted Green or Libertarian we might actually get somewhere.

    7. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by Otter · · Score: 4, Insightful
      They are stealing our freedom to vote, the very democracy over which so much blood has been spilled...

      The flip side of this, of course, is that you'd be unilaterally deciding to deny a large group of people the opportunity to cast a ballot, and possibly voiding an entire election. It's always hard to make an objective determination of where to engage in civil disobedience, but I'd urge you make extremely damn well sure in your own mind about when voting machine vulnerabilities justify your deciding for all of us that we'd be better off with no voting at all.

      Certainly if you walk into my polling place and start smashing machines with a sledgehammer, you'll be leaving on a stretcher. I wouldn't count on everyone immediately recognizing you as the hero of freedom that you see yourself as.

    8. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by ElForesto · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe, instead of advocating the destruction of the machines, you can do what we did in Nevada and force the Sec. of State to add a paper trail. It's a lot more work and you don't get to smash things, but it does a lot more good.

      --
      There is a difference between "insightful" and "inciteful" other than spelling.
    9. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by Unnngh! · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Well, if most people actually would vote, maybe we could see whether it does or not. The voter turnout rate in the US is so abysmal that you probably have a point.

      If you don't vote, however, you really have no right to complain about the way things work. This is a democracy after all, even if it has its share of problems, and individuals can work to change things, even if they aren't 100% successful.

    10. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by cvd6262 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The patriotic one. You know, the one with the good hair.

      I don't remember who said this: The difference between a patriot and a traitor is success.

      --

      I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.

    11. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It is really sad when Iran had a higher voter turn out in their last election than the US ever has. Plus, during Iran's election the reformers were actually boycotting the election because of the religious powers that be not allowing many of the reformist candiates to run.

    12. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by Oligonicella · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "...electronic voting ...is just such a case."
      "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice."
      An opinions only, not truths. And, one I don't share.

      "Sometimes men must take justice into their own hands."
      Feel free to come on down to our voting country and try to take something into your own hands. Just don't whine and complain when you have your ass handed to you be people who aren't taking kindly to your presumption that you should determine that they shouldn't vote.

    13. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by nacturation · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "The penalty for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." -- Plato

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    14. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by RazzleFrog · · Score: 2, Informative

      The United States of America was never a Democracy and the founders made that very clear. It is a Constitution-based federal republic which means that we are ruled by laws created by elected officials. In a democracy every issue is decided by popular vote. Great article here

    15. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by cc_pirate · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." - Josef Stalin

      --

      "There are laws that enslave men, and laws that set them free. " - Sean Connery as King Arthur

    16. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by jhughes · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I have wondered this:
      If someone created stickers that said something simple such as "How do you know this machine recorded your vote correctly", or something of that sort, then distributed those to people who would go into the voting booths and affix these stickers to the machines or voting booth walls or what not.

      Would that get a stir out of people? How would John Doe going into the booth and seeing this colorful sticker asking the simple question react?

      Granted, this would be a 'too late' type of situation, and I urge people to speak out ahead of time (I've already wrote my election officials, have you?). But what sort of reaction would this have at the booths...suddenly people questioning the machines, at the time of voting?

      Just a question that I felt like tossing out:)

    17. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by Moofie · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yup. By not voting, I give up my right to free speech.

      Uh, NO.

      A) We don't live in a democracy.
      B) All the options on the ballot are unacceptable.

      Why should I vote again?

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    18. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Informative

      civil disobedience
      n.

      Refusal to obey civil laws in an effort to induce change in governmental policy or legislation, characterized by the use of passive resistance or other nonviolent means.

      Destroying voting machines is about as violent as standing on a boat and throwing bales of tea into a harbor.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    19. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by Pionar · · Score: 2

      Dumbass. Vandalism is not civil disobedience. civil disobedience does not involve hurting others and does not involve destroying property.

      You talk big, but you don't know what the hell you're saying. Sounds like our current President.

    20. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by captain_craptacular · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I will vote only when there is someone I respect and trust enough to vote for.

      Have you ever actually voted? Because if you had, you would probably know that there are usually various referendums and "vote of the people" items on the ballot that affect you directly and have nothing to do with any political candidate or party (except that they were proposed by one/many). For example municipal bond proposals and tax rates are often added to the ballot.

      --
      They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security
    21. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by jazmataz23 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Exhibit A

      Please, go read that. We'll wait.

      Got all that? I didn't think so.

      For those too sane to try that exercise, here's a representative sample:

      (2) PHYSICAL SEARCH- Section 304(d)(1) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1824(d)(1)) is amended by--

      (A) striking `forty-five' and inserting `90';
      (B) inserting `(A)' after `except that'; and
      (C) inserting before the period the following: `, and (B) an order under this section for a physical search targeted against an agent of a foreign power as defined in section 101(b)(1)(A) may be for the period specified in the application or for 120 days, whichever is less'.

      Say what you like about Michael Moore, he's got a point. That is a MESS. Fourty-five whats just became ninety whatevers? Would it not have been easier to read if they had just rewritten the entire phrase they're amending? It goes on and on like that, 402 pages of it, all of it modifying the existing code in these oblique ways. If you submitted a kernel patch like that, Linus would have rejected it out of hand!

      Now, I'm not saying they did anything untoward in this machination. I don't know! What I do know is that they made a lot of hey when the Abu Gahrib story broke about everything they did being "100% legal". I don't doubt it! I bet they could enter my house without a search warrant or look at what I've checked out at the library without my knowledge too!

      Maybe you're too young to remember the Cold War, but that was what we were told happened in the Soviet Union!

      And yes, I will eat my hat and promptly admit I was wrong *IF* this election is monitored by the UN and when he loses the popular vote AGAIN he leaves quietly. Happily.

      --
      Death to Argument by Slogan!! (This post twice-encrypted with ROT-13. Replies not using same will be ignored)
    22. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by Draknor · · Score: 4, Informative

      A) No, we (Americans) live in a democratic republic, which means you vote for people to represent you in the government.

      B) How do you know? Have you seen the Nov 2 ballot? I sort of doubt it. You know which 2 major party candidates will be on the presidential ballot, and that's probably about it.

      People who don't at least vote (if not become more politically-involved) can whine all they want about the state of affairs (freedom of speech), but they should stop short of expecting anyone to actually listen to them, much less make the changes non-voters whine about.

      There's more to voting than one presidential election every 4 years; voting in the local (city / county / state) elections every year will have much more immediate and obvious effects, because in these smaller elections your vote carries a lot more weight.

    23. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by AK+Marc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Make sure your vote counts: make them count it by hand!

      How do you know whether it was counted? How do you know how they counted it? There was a thing in the news the other day about a postcard that was about 20 years late. It fell behind a machine, and when the machine was moved 20 years later, it was found and forwarded by the post office. If your card falls behind a desk and doesn't get found until too late to be counted, how do you know?

      There is absolutely no verification whatsoever in today's non-electronic voting systems. So how is it a bad thing when electronic voting is no worse than the current system?

      And no, I'm not playing devil's advocate. I can conceive of multiple ways for there to be verification while retaining anonymity with electronic voting that will not work with paper voting. So if you want your vote to count (and you want to know if your vote counted) you should be against paper voting and for electronic voting. Just make sure they don't let Diebold do it.

    24. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by smagruder · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A) We don't live in a democracy.

      Well, you may want to reconsider buying into that commonly held, yet inaccurate view after considering the following thoughts:

      • In modern times, the term "republic" has become nearly synonymous with the term "representative democracy" in the Western world.
      • Was Alexis de Tocqueville delusional when he penned Democracy in America?
      • The U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, amongst its descriptions of the government types of various nations, describes the U.S. as a "constitution-based federal republic [with a] strong democratic tradition".
      • The U.S. Constitution and its Amendments outline universal suffrage and the direct election of Representatives and Senators, while state constitutions likewise mandate similar ideas at the state and local levels. Challenge: Next time you find yourself in a voting booth about to freely choose between politicians, repeat the mantra "republic, not a democracy" and notice how silly you feel. Yes, the choices are often terrible, but they are choices nonetheless.
      • At least half the U.S. states provide for citizen-sponsored ballot initiatives. And several additional states are considering enacting them. In the many states that have allowed their citizens to exercise this authority for over a century, we haven't exactly witnessed any real breakdown in society.
      • U.S. politicians from both major parties frequently refer to our nation as a "democracy". Are they just pandering to the masses, or do they actually believe what they're saying?
      • The "republic, not a democracy" viewpoint can only make sense if it refers to pure direct democracy (virtually a form of anarchy which almost nobody favors) rather than modern liberal democracy. However, those who spread this errant meme don't seem to mind if people are goaded into thinking there's something to despise about contemporary notions of democracy. People are apathetic enough without these continual verbal attacks on the great tradition of democracy in this country.

      The bottom line: The United States is a republic and a democracy (albeit an imperfect one).

      --
      Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
    25. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by orzetto · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Yes, counted by hand by state workers.

      What? How does it work in the US now? Here over in Europe you normally randomly pick Joe Schmo's for that job, normally in group of 5-10. Statistically there is almost always one that will blow the whistle.

      --
      Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
    26. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by smagruder · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The United States, is, and has always been, a democracy and a republic. If it's not really democracy (in your mind), then write your politicians and demand they stop calling it one!

      --
      Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
    27. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No other type of voting system has been asked to pass the stringent tests being demanded of software based election system by open source advocates.

      This is because e-voting adds complexity to the system without actually bringing any benefit to it. It does not make it substantially easier to vote - larger print on the ballots would probably do more in that direction. It does not make it harder to defraud the voters. Since it removes the most convenient audit trail, it makes it easier.

      I would prefer that e-voting actually made the process better in some way. Barring that, I would prefer that it not make it worse.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    28. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by sploxx · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, the answer is easy. A video camera to prevent vandalism ;)

    29. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by vsprintf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I won't join the Republican Party, or the Democratic Party, because that would mean I endorse their stranglehold on the American election system. So tell me again: How can my vote (any vote!) have weight?

      Unless you're one of the very few actual *members*, you don't really join a party, you register as affiliated with a party. As to the weight of your vote, if you really dislike one party or another, register as affiliated with that party, and then vote for the weakest candidate(s) in the primaries belonging to *your* party. You're allowed to vote for anybody in the general election, so you've doubled the weight of your vote.

      So tell me again: Where is the value in my vote?

      To me, it seems that if you don't (at least) vote for the lesser of two evils, you've abdicated one of your most basic rights as a citizen and all your rights to complain about the people in power. If you don't vote, don't bitch. You are still entitled to bitch about the people you voted for.

      Most elections are local, and from those elections come our future national representatives. Many local elections are decided by a few votes. A recent election here for city council was decided by two votes. If the defeated candidate had managed to get his wife and one other person to vote for him, we'd have a different council. :) That candidate is young and has political ambitions which could include national office, and he'll be back in the next election.

      If you want your vote to have any value at all, then use it. If you want to increase the value of your vote, then do your homework and plan how to use it. Finally, if you have an issue you're enthused about, communicate that to people you know, and perhaps give some apathetic people a reason to vote. Again, you've multiplied your vote. You won't always win. That's not a reason to give up. If you don't vote, you are voting for the status quo. I don't care if you're a right-wing reactionary, a left-wing ultra-liberal, or a slashdot-wing libertarian, just do your homework, get stoked about some issue or candidate, and VOTE. The alternative is Not Good (TM) for the country.

    30. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by Artifakt · · Score: 4, Informative

      "If you are caught (unlikely)"

      The Machine operator looks inside the machine after each voter, time allowing, to see if they have left any literature or stickers. You will get caught, with near 100% certanty. The proof will be that the sticker wasn't there before you entered, and its there after you left. That's grounds to ask you to wait until a police officer arrives, or to look up your name in the voter registration and report you if you flee. It is a felony in my state, and a felony under Federal law. You do NOT have a great position. If you start so much as raising your voice while accusing us of "bullying" or "threatening" you, you will be creating a situation that may intmidate other voters present, and the couts will be notified that you continued after being warned, and the election comission will seek multiple charges. If you raise a fist to denounce my 'bullies" you will be charged for intimidating an official as well. All the fun of behaving like a fool, WITH the nasty fear of serving 75 years before possibility of parole thing!
      It is also definitely not civil disobedience. There is a line 100 feet in front of the building. Stand 101 feet out, right next to the marker, and you can hold up a big poster that asks "How do you know these machines are honest?", all you want. Pass out flyers too, but if you do, please tell people NOT to display them inside the polling place or leave them in the machines. If it's a hot day, I'll probably bring you and everyone else out there a lemonade apiece, but you'll have to stand there next to the rest of the spokesmen for and against various candidates and issues. Given that you have a right to do it that way, there's no need for doing it the wrong way.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    31. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by FLEB · · Score: 2, Funny

      On Deibold letterhead, no less!

      --
      Information wants to be free.
      Entertainment wants to be paid.
      You just want to be cheap.
    32. Re:When is civil disobedience justified? by deepius · · Score: 2, Interesting
      standing on a boat and throwing bales of tea into a harbor

      You might find this book interesting ("I Love Paul Revere, Whether He Rode Or Not" by Shenkman and Harding). It debunks a number of myths in American history, among them the one about how the Boston Tea Party was some patriotic act of defiance.

      If I recall correctly, a group of American tea makers got pissed off when the British lowered taxes on imported tea, so they went and pitched a bunch of it overboard to protect their own financial prospects. They tried to throw the blame for the incident on Native Americans by dressing in costume when they went.

      Even if I totally buggered up my recollection of facts in the book, it's still a great read.

  3. More eyes will catch bad/illegal code by grunt107 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As Diebold has proven, having a private firm develop voting machine code can be detrimental to a democratic society.

    More eyes checking on the code will find these problems faster than the machinations of a private corporation. Factor in corporate bias and the potential for 'back door' code is immense.

    As cited, the CA elections showed how unusable the current offerings of e-machines are.

    The only criteria is if it is easy to use, traceable, and accurate.

    1. Re:More eyes will catch bad/illegal code by lukewarmfusion · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "The only criteria is if it is easy to use, traceable, and accurate."

      And one of the criteria of a successful election is that the votes be untraceable to the voter. It's still a mystery to me, and one of the sources of skepticism to many others.

    2. Re:More eyes will catch bad/illegal code by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And one of the criteria of a successful election is that the votes be untraceable to the voter. It's still a mystery to me, and one of the sources of skepticism to many others.

      It's a mystery to you why some people would want to avoid vigelantes and the death penalty over voting for the "wrong" candidate?

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    3. Re:More eyes will catch bad/illegal code by ComputerSlicer23 · · Score: 5, Interesting
      It's simple. You can't sell your vote, if you can't prove the way you voted to someone else.

      In the olden days, people would sell their vote for money. It wasn't until I believe the 1850's or 1860's that we had an anonymous voting system. In an odd coincidence, we imported the Austrialian method back then too!

      Before the 1860's you wrote in the name of the candidate you wished to vote for. In small enough precinects, you could literally know everyones handwritting. Before that, you actually walked into the town capital building, and announced your vote in a loud clear voice the the people in charge of keeping track.

      Each candidate would have a witness there keeping track of who voted which way, and could then pay off the people who they bought a vote from.

      As the other response said, I'd imagine that the first whites to vote for a black in Georgia probably didn't make it too far out of the voting booth before getting harrassed. Unless there was an anonymous system.

      Kirby

  4. Know thy vote counter by Skraut · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." Joseph Stalin

    --
    Introducing Microsoft Vacuum 1.0 The first Microsoft product that doesn't suck.
  5. Fork it. Absolutely. But someone will care? by cyclop · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's lovely someone wants to develop and fork something so exotic like an electronic voting system.
    I just hope some government will understand that it's NECESSARY for such software to be FULLY Open Source, to guarantee democracy. How can I trust a device I don't know what is REALLY doing with my votes?

    (And if someone is scared by the fact someone can maliciously change the program in the local voting machines just before the election...well,it's enough for THAT election to use a freezed code with a definite SHA1 or MD5 checksum...isn't it?)

    --
    -- Patent no.123456: A way to personalize /. comments with a sig attached to the end.
    1. Re:Fork it. Absolutely. But someone will care? by rob.sharp · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Unless you watch every vote being counted with your own eyes, theres no guarantee the every vote is counted.

      A closed source voting system is the same as the vote counting that goes on behind closed doors.

      You just have to hope that those in charge of either method are competent and trustworthy.

  6. The solution is simple... by sploxx · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... traditional voting with pen and paper!

  7. What amuses me. . . by the+gnat · · Score: 5, Interesting

    . . . is that the people leading the call for paper trails or even just paper ballots are either computing professionals or extremely technically literate. It's an interesting situation when technological "progress" is opposed by the elite rather than the traditional Luddites or the masses. Maybe we've all just read too much science fiction, but these machines sound like a solution even worse than the problem. I'd rather go through the Florida recount again than deal with the potentially catastrophic effects of the machines we use in CA.

    I'm a little shocked, however, that more professed conservatives haven't spoken out against the new systems. To hear some of them tell it, the Democratic Party practically invented vote fraud, so you'd expect that they'd be much more suspicious of unverifiable, untrackable voting systems. But none of them seem to have anything to say on the matter - or have I not been looking in the right place?

    1. Re:What amuses me. . . by crimethinker · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Let me join you as a techincal professional who absolutely does not trust electronic voting. I prefer to punch holes in paper or mark boxes with a pen. At least in those cases, someone has to make my physical ballot disappear.

      I'm a little shocked, however, that more professed conservatives haven't spoken out against the new systems. To hear some of them tell it, the Democratic Party practically invented vote fraud

      Haven't you ever heard the saying "when I die, bury me in Chicago so I can keep voting" ? The Democrats did invent modern-day vote fraud, getting all sorts to vote for them: dead people, illegal immigrants, and in one California case, over 120 people in alphabetical order with identical handwriting signing the voter roll. I found it particularly ironic that Al Gore's team in the Florida recount included Daley, who is from ... CHICAGO!

      BTW, the reason that the conservatives aren't screaming bloody murder about unauditable electronic voting is that the chairman of Diebold is a Republican who has pledged to help re-elect George Bush.

      -paul

      --
      Pistol caliber is like religion: everyone has their favourite, and theirs is the only right choice.
    2. Re:What amuses me. . . by Toby_Tyke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      these machines sound like a solution even worse than the problem

      WHAT PROBLEM ?! Could someone, anyone, please explain what the hell is wrong with a paper ballot and a pen?

      Thats the system we use for parlimentary elections in the UK, and it seems to work fine. Arguments about whether voting machines should be closed or open source miss the point. There should not be any voting machines at all.

      --
      "I realise this is not a very popular opinion but it's the truth, and there for needs to be said" -Bill Hicks
    3. Re:What amuses me. . . by crimethinker · · Score: 2, Informative
      Be careful; you're going to get me started on one of my favourite threads - "secret ballot" in my book means that, once you leave the voting booth, your ballot is completely secret even from the voter who just cast the ballot.

      I have yet to see a proposal for post-election voter verification that does not have some gaping huge hole for coercion. And that, boys and girls, is why the voting process itself must be so trustworthy. Something just "feels right" about dropping a piece of paper into a locked ballot box. Pressing a few buttons on an electronic machine just doesn't inspire nearly the same level of confidence.

      One nasty rumour I heard during the Florida debacle was that some ballots were found where every single office was voted republican, including George W. Bush, but the hole for Al Gore was also punched. The insinuation was that somebody took a stack of votes and punched the "Gore" hole on every one of them, which would either have no effect (if was already a "Gore" ballot) or disqualify their non-Gore vote on the basis of it now being an overvote. With paper ballots, such an allegation could be investigated. Electrons are just a little harder ...

      -paul

      --
      Pistol caliber is like religion: everyone has their favourite, and theirs is the only right choice.
    4. Re:What amuses me. . . by mefus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You've had 4 years to do something other than insinuate

      If you had only gone to see Fahrenheit 9/11, instead of relying on Limbaugh and O'Really to tell you whether it's good or not (use your own judgment for Pete's sake) you would have seen that considerable effort was made, and you wouldn't dare make that accusation.

      Those efforts were made in vain.

      --
      mefus
      In Open Society, GPL Software frees YOU!
  8. Diebold conspiracy theories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I dismissed anti-Diebold conspiracy theorists as cranks, the political version of Project Bluebook UFO-hunters. After all, for their theory to work, the entire development staff of a major international corporation has to be in on the conspiracy, right?

    But then I had the opportunity to speak with some senior managers from the company, who told me that, in fact, virtually the entire company was united behind dropping the electronic voting machines. They didn't trust the codebase (which was developed by a company Diebold acquired), felt the issue needed to be more deeply researched than it had been, and believed the bad publicity was hurting Diebold's reputation for security and reliability in its cash-management business.

    But CEO Walden O'Dell disagrees. Virtually single-handedly, he has kept the e-voting project alive despite the vocal opposition of virtually everyone involved with it. When I asked the managers why they thought O'Dell was so strongly behind the project, their answers were blunt: "Politics."

    If that's how management inside Diebold thinks, perhaps there's something to the conspiracy types after all....

    - Watchful Babbler

  9. Why not an AVM? by Donoho · · Score: 3, Interesting

    it means a loss of the company's intellectual property

    That's not the voter's problem.

    and unfettered access could lead to a compromise of the voting system, if a determined cracker could find and exploit flaws in the code.
    Or it could lead to anyone in the community blowing the whistle on propriatary back doors or the poor coding practices of the developers or....
    These arguments are completely backwards.
    how hard is it to say 'add one to this vote'?

    Why not model these voting machines after ATM's? Every registered voter starts out with a single vote per election. Accounts are credited and debited and everyone is accountable... Automatic Voting Machine anyone?

    1. Re:Why not an AVM? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why not model these voting machines after ATM's? Every registered voter starts out with a single vote per election. Accounts are credited and debited and everyone is accountable... Automatic Voting Machine anyone?

      Sounds good to me- ATMs keep paper records in the background (even when you choose not to get a receipt, listen closely and you'll here the "bllaurp" of a dot matix printer going off for a line for every transaction). To preserve vote privacy, your "account" to be debited or credited would only record that you did vote in such and such election- not how you voted, which would be recorded separately. And to top it off, you could get your printed reciept BEFORE you saved the record- just to be sure.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    2. Re:Why not an AVM? by provolt · · Score: 5, Funny
      Why not model these voting machines after ATM's?

      You know you're right. I wonder where we could find an ATM company? They have the knowledge and skills. I wonder where we could find one of those. They'd be really good at it.

    3. Re:Why not an AVM? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2, Informative
      Actually, that's a question I desparately need an answer to. Why are ATMs more secure and trustworthy? (or at least, seen to be more secure) then voting machines?

      ATM's don't require anonymity. They require the opposite. And any given transaction only affects one person (well, more than one for a joint account, and I suppose the bank might count as yet another). Consider the likelihood that an ATM would be acceptable if all the money were tossed into one big pool, and noone was allowed to know just who put money into or took money out of that big pool....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  10. Opting out not possible with Open Source by ajs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I find the idea facinating that open sourcing your product is a binding contract with the community. You cannot back out unless interest in your product is so low that no one ever bothers to fork it. But time and again we see with efforts like this one or XFree86 that the idea of backing out of an open source stance is actually more harmful than remaining that way. While some will view this as a problem, as a consumer, I view it as a boon.

    Even making motions toward open source without going all the way can result in "pseudo-forking" (I'm posting this from a Gnome desktop which was originally created in response to the original licensing terms of the Qt library upon which KDE was based).

    It will be very interesting to see what the next few decades bring to the table in terms of open source business practices. I envision a sort of corporate ethics evolving around the benefits and dangers of open source development, and this can only be a healthy process. Much as I think RMS took leave of his senses in the mid-90s (who didn't), I have to say that he nailed it when he decided that the GPL would have the power to change the software industry. I doubt that any other legal tool has been able to so profoundly shape the future of business since the anti-trust laws of early last century.

  11. Specifications? by justanyone · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Where are the specifications for this code?
    What language is it written in?
    Where is the source kept?
    What platforms does it run under?

    MoveOn.org is sponsoring a petition drive to urge U.S. voters to demand voter-verified paper ballots that can be audited and recounted if necessary. This is the ONLY solution.

    A SECRET ballot means that the association between a specific person and a specific vote cast is vital to democracy. Doing otherwise can very easily lead to vote buying ("I'll pay you $x for proof you voted for my candidate!").

    We need a specifications document laying out the requirements for this software, which platforms it runs on, etc.

    We also need a copy of the existing code to (a) have a place to start from, (b) provide us something to look at and thus give us ideas for development methodologies, (c) give us a point of reference to use when lobbying congressmen, etc.

    This must be on a paper trail so I know who I voted for. Election monitors (the people, one from each party, who literally looked over the shoulders of the people counting ballots in Florida) need to be able to verify the count afterwards in some statistically valid way.

  12. Insane... by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If the old lead developer goes insane, you can always fork it, right?

    Yep. However, getting the politician's buy-in on certifying the fork will be problematic:

    On the one hand, we have academia and open source developers pushing their idea. (Politicians aren't real comfortable around smart people or people with multiple piercings)

    On the other hand, we have a group of respectible business men pushing their idea. (Politicians can relate to business men because they wear the same suits and ties, and many of them were business men themselves at one point or another)

    Who is going to win? Hmmmm....

    --

    Lodragan Draoidh
    The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
  13. Re:When is civil disobedience civil disobedience? by jazmataz23 · · Score: 4, Informative
    There's a fine line between Civil Disobedience and Hooliganism. The major tenet of CD is nonviolence, that in a free society, social change can be created without resorting to violence of any kind.

    It's really pretty practical actually; it's impossible to get somebody all riled up for social change, put a sledgehammer in their hands and tell them "Now, that's *ONLY* for the voting machines. No hitting!" Witness the French "Revolution": once you tell Jimmy Rebel "go forth and smash!" he rarely stops where you want him to.

    jaz

    --
    Death to Argument by Slogan!! (This post twice-encrypted with ROT-13. Replies not using same will be ignored)
  14. Copyright and Licensing (was Re:Uh... GPL?) by Proteus · · Score: 2, Informative
    So much for the GPL being viral...
    According to the story text, the GPL-based version is being forked, and (hopefully) brought to the US. So, the fact that the initial version of the code was GPL is protecting its availability.

    The original copyright-owners of the code have the right to change licenses -- whether to or from GPL or any other license. The "viral GPL" argument has to do with people other than the original author attempting to close the source-code for a product. If your product contains GPL code, you must either isolate and release that code, or you must make the containing product GPL. If, however, you own copyright to that code, you are free to change licenses -- you just can't enforce the new license on the users of the GNU license. :P
    --
    We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex—but Congress can. – Cullen Hightower
  15. SI arguments: YECH! by schodackwm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "According to Software Improvement, simply releasing election-machine code under a liberal license such as the GPL is undesirable (because) ... unfettered access could lead to a compromise of the voting system, if a determined cracker could find and exploit flaws in the code."

    Let's see: the audited access assures that no cracker can ever see the code, right?

    And besides -- if we can't see the three-card-monte-man's hands, he can't cheat us?

    The only argument that holds water is the IP/profit explanation I skipped in the quote above.

    yech!
    --
    [this sig has been trunca
  16. Re:"how hard is it to say 'add one to this vote" by Proteus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Precisely right.

    The counting of the votes is easy, and a well-solved problem. The vast majority of the work goes toward making sure those votes are counted with perfect accuracy (i.e. that the simple interface never "glitches" about sending the correct vote to the counter), and in securing the device against tampering with the vote count or interface before, during, and after the election.

    It is exactly because of the potential problems that a printed, hand-countable, voter-verifiable paper audit trail should be an essential part of any e-voting rules.

    --
    We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex—but Congress can. – Cullen Hightower
  17. Appropos lyrics(Violent Femmes)Re:That can be good by Samuel+Nitzberg · · Score: 2

    The Machine Lyrics:

    I got a machine
    And I took over the world
    In one weekend
    I took over the world
    With my machine
    I did it because
    I was looking for a project
    And it was either
    Take over the world or learn French
    So I took over the world
    And next weekend
    I can learn French
    I got a machine
    And I took over the world
    But nothing changed
    That wouldn't be fair

  18. Re:Uh... GPL? by Ryan+Huddleston · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They could have either done a rewrite, or have gotten all the original writers' permission.

    Under the GPL, the original writers stil hold their copyrights. By modifying the code, they submit to the terms of the GPL, but what they write is still theirs. And if the original writer wants to do away with the GPL on a GPL-licensed work, he can contact the other authors, and since they each all hold unencumbered copyrights to their own works, a closed version may be made.

    Even if they cannot get permission from all those who wrote the code, if they remove the code written by those who dissent, they can still close the work.

    The GPL is a very solid license. It is also quite readable. You can read it at http://www.fsf.org/licenses/gpl.html.

  19. i don't understand this election software stuff by Triumph+The+Insult+C · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "...only a budget of AUS$200,000 ..."

    i don't understand how it could be this expensive, exchange rates be damned, whatever

    i don't see why this voting software needs to be so complicated? wouldn't some linux/*bsd/windows/mac/beos/atari/xbox/gamecube/dr eamcast box with a touchscreen suffice? have it run a simple web browser, have it verify the voter (perhaps some card sent to them post-voter-registration), and ++ some variable? write it out to compact flash (hey, we'll get redundant and use 2!). then have some trained monkey go around, pull the cards, and tally the numbers

    the romans and greeks used rocks or sticks or whatever the fuck they could find on the ground, and voting worked. 1500 years later and it has to be so complex?

    where did these software engineers go to school? have they never heard of occam?

    --
    vodka, straight up, thank you!
    1. Re:i don't understand this election software stuff by Jerf · · Score: 3, Informative

      $200,000 AUD is roughly $140,000 US, which is roughly 2 developer years for a reasonable wage of $50,000 a year + bennies.

      If you think you can create a secure, national scale voting system that you'd trust your country's future to in two man-years, I invite you to try. The experience will be educational. You might also gain some insight into why programmers notoriously underestimate how long things will take.

      Regardless of whether you create a system in that time frame that you think you can trust, I can guarentee you I won't trust it.

      One hint: While you've heard of "Occam" (although you seriously misapply it here), politicians haven't. Take a good, long look at the next ballot sometime, and don't forget multiple languages and assorted other sundry details that will start sucking your time like you wouldn't believe.

      You sound like you're still in school. It gets harder in the real world, you know. ++votes isn't gonna cut it...

    2. Re:i don't understand this election software stuff by sholden · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Recording votes in the ACT is not as simple as "++ some variable".

      Calculating the outcome is not as simple as "max(...)".

      Why not take 5 minutes to find out what exactly the software does before deciding that you are so much smarter/productive than the people who created it in the first place.

      Remember to include things like independent code audits...

    3. Re:i don't understand this election software stuff by Triumph+The+Insult+C · · Score: 2, Interesting
      sure thing! actually, let's take a look together!

      1. Privacy of voter hmm. not a software problem. plywood works fine. cardboard too, in a pinch
      2. Authenticity of voter i made a suggestion
      3. Avoidance of coercion not a problem for software. possible solutions? plywood, again, works. people not letting themselves being coerced. neutral parties supervising (castro suggested cuban supervisors after the last presidential election fiasco. i actually agree with him, maybe just not all one nationality)
      4. Empty ballot box at start of polling this is a software problem? i would hope that a ballot box would be completely emptied at the end of the previous election. voters have a pesky preference of having their votes count(ed). or maybe that's just me
      5. Security of ballot papers this company sells evoting machines. i would think the point of that is to get rid of paper. why reintroduce paper into the mix? rather, why try to get rid of paper in the first place, only to reintroduce it? oh ... get rid of *most* of the paper. ok, that's understandable
      6. One vote per person ok. the machine could punch a hole in some card mailed to registered voter. sort of like the read-only tab on floppies
      --
      vodka, straight up, thank you!
  20. Sorry, but this is stupid by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The software development process is COMPLETELY irrelevent to ANYTHING. That's right, irrelevent.

    There is only one issue, and that's hardcopy records. No voting machine should be all electronic. It should spit out a receipt that tells you exactly how you voted. One copy to the voter, one copy goes into a sealed box.

    In short, if any cheating occurs, we know immediately. Who cares how the software is developed? The only question is whether it can be verified after the fact.

    --
    Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    1. Re:Sorry, but this is stupid by andfarm · · Score: 2, Informative
      Your proposed system doesn't work. Here's why:
      1. There's no way to tell if both copies were the same
      2. Votes can be "bought" if there's any sort of verifiable paper trail linking a voter to their vote
      --

      TANSTAAFI: There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free iPod.

    2. Re:Sorry, but this is stupid by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      All right, forget about the receipt to the voter, but the primary issue is verifiability. I can check the paper vote that popped out of the machine before it goes into the box to make sure it's correct.

      --
      Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
  21. my tcl contribution to open source voting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    #!/usr/bin/wish

    set kerry 0
    set bush 0

    canvas .c

    label .l1
    label .l2

    button .b1 -text Kerry -command {incr kerry; .l1 configure -text $kerry}
    button .b2 -text Bush -command {incr kerry; .l2 configure -text $bush}

    pack .l1 .l2 .b1 .b2

  22. Re:"how hard is it to say 'add one to this vote" by gurps_npc · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Error Checking. Lots of Error Checking.

    The error checking means they can't just say "Our machines gave us 10 billion votes for Bush and 1 billion votes for Gore." Esepecially cause there are not 10 billion americans.

    They do things like this:

    x votes on this machine every hour total, y votes for candidate A, z votes for Candidate B, w votes for none of the above.

    And Diebold does all of this error checking in INCREDIBALLY BAD WAYS.

    For example, they do error checking on original data, but make copies of the data. If the original is verified as accurate they approve the COPY, even if the copy is different from the original.

    ANd of course there is all the security, which Diebold ignores. They put in back doors, use standard keys/passwords that apply to all the machines they make instead of unique ones (Would you buy a house that had a key that matched every other one on your street???

    The simple truth is there is NO excuse for not using paper copy to double check any electronic voting machines except that the republicans are afraid of re-count votes.

    They would rather risk election fraud then risk a recount.

    The machines are NOT safer or in any way less likely to have bad counts, they have in fact been tested and found to in some cases generate MORE bad votes then optical machines.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
  23. "Intellectual Property" says it all... by bokmann · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ok, fine, the company wants to protect its 'intellectual property'... That language alone should be enough to scare away most sane people.

    Since when is the process by which we elect our leaders the 'property' of anyone except the citizenry? If a company wants to 'own' a process like that, fine, I just think that is obviously opposite that of a democratic, transparent process.

    Surely, most people have an attention span long enough to grasp that simple concept.

  24. When Voting Machines Go FPS by MooseByte · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Yes, destroying the voting machines in not civil disobedience... turning them into a beowolf cluster to play Doom 3 on, now that is civil disobedience."

    Except you'd be in a tight deathmatch, frag your opponent with a headshot from behind for the final kill, but somehow you'd end up on the ground headless and they'd be doing the victory dance.

  25. To choose or not to choose... by isotope23 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you must choose from Aor B, Vote for George Kerry, because John Bush is just plain evil...

    Positions for important issues

    George Kerry :
    1.Supports war in Iraq, will add more troops if needed.
    2. Strongly supports the Patriot Act
    3. Supports Big government spending on various nanny state programs

    John Bush :

    1.Supports war in Iraq, will add more troops if needed.
    2. Strongly supports the Patriot Act
    3. Supports Big government spending on various nanny state programs

    As you can see George Kerry is certainly a better candidate.....

    In reality, the only way this situation will change is to start voting for third party candidates. The duopoly has gotten out of hand. The conventions are not even used for discussing the parties postion on issues, nor are they used to select a candidate. They have degenerated into a 3-day infomercial paid for by the taxpayers. I will be voting for Michael Badnarik (Libertarian) this time around as I refuse to eat the corporate dog food. Better a clear conscience and a "wasted" vote than supporting
    either of the cluetards...

    --
    Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
  26. Re:The original American way... by bytesmythe · · Score: 2, Funny
    ...you've still got that last solution: weapons. ... I say we vote with the tea.

    Everyone get back! I've got a 25-pack of decaf Irish Breakfast, and I'm not afraid to use it!!

    *dunk dunk dunk*

    Umm... Did anyone bring cream and sugar?

    --
    bytesmythe
    Hypocrisy is the resin that holds the plywood of society together.
    -- Scott Meyer
  27. MUST be out of the country for absentee: NOT SO! by lax-goalie · · Score: 3, Interesting
    "It is a criminal offense to vote absentee while remaining in the states."

    Donno where you live, but in Virginia, for instance, that is SO NOT true. There is a whole list of reasons that are OK, from being away at school to being out of town on business to just having a long workday.

    For Virginia's rules, visit: http://www.sbe.state.va.us/Election/AbsenteeVoting /absente1.htm

    Many states have similar rules; a quick trip to you state's web site will get you the scoop...

  28. same thing here.... by zogger · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... in some states. The R and D parties have passed laws that make it ludicrous to try and get a third party or independent candidate actually listed on the ballot. It varies, some states are incredibly difficult, some are just annoying. And you combine that with the collusion of big money mainstream media having a virtual lock out of any news on third partys and independents, you have in essence a hijacked government, controlled almost completely by two DEFINETLY for-uber-mega-profit organizations.

    Anyway, with this article, I still think computerised voting is totally unnecessary, we just plain don't need it, don't need the cost, it is BILLIONS of dollars nationwide, we don't need computers to add simple sums at the precinct level,so just say *no*, no open source, no closed source, no source at all.

    Some things computers are good for, others are an expensive hindrance. "Ohh shiny" and "we are in the computar age" don't cut it, computerised voting is "gadgets for gadgets sake", and someone's profits for the hardware and software, not because it's needed. Voting results should be reviewable with any set of biological eyeballs, anything else will be blackbox voting. It's bad enough with the stupid mechanical machines, we don't need anything beyond paper and pen, and a locked wooden box with a slit in the top to receive the ballots, and that's it.

    Want to make it more fair? Institute at least a 24 hour voting period, and do the "ranking" method of voting, and have a "no one" option as well.

  29. Manual punch cards are the least worst by Mazzie · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think electronic voting is insane. I didn't even like the old mechanical voting booths. If a clueless operator starts putting the tally cards in backwards your vote is lost, and you don't even know it.

    You manually put holes in a card, and drop it into a locked ballot box. Someone has to do a lot of dirty work to make that box disappear, or alter the cards. Plus there are no ink marks that can be erased or smeared or whatever. (Don't forget to remove any hanging chads, lest an evil soul tries to glue it back in place)

    Also, paper does not have source code.

    --
    Having a bookmark to Google does not make you an expert on everything.
  30. Typical Microsoft code... by argent · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Typical Microsoft "embrace and extend" code: that only runs on MS-DOS or under emulation on NT. The getch() call isn't standard C or POSIX, so that program won't run as written on any standard UNIX system, including Microsoft's hosted UNIX they're considering including in Longhorn.

  31. If voting machines were Open Source... by ngunton · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... then we'd have fifteen different interfaces that all do pretty much the same thing, but they would each have their quirks and none of them would do it quite right. The software would take five years to develop from scratch, and at the end of it we would have a huge virtual machine-based system that executes XVL (Extensible Voting Language), which is horribly complex and slow, but allows for very fancy voting platforms, in theory. But as a result, the old voting hardware will be too slow and limited to run it, so we'd need all new machines based on the latest processors. We'd also have to wait a while for all the drivers to become available, and the Debian Voting Project wouldn't release the code until it ran properly on *every* platform, including PDP11 and ZX81. Meanwhile the FireVulture project will aim to develop a super-lightweight version of the codebase that will be fast and sleek, but it will run into problems due to schisms in the team, caused by differences of opinion about whether the code should be LGPL, GPL or BSD license.

    The eventual system will work very well and be extremely stable, but by the time it is in widespread use the developers will have started on Version 2.0, which is a total rewrite from the ground up (they now feel they understand the problem much better, and can see that the original API needs to be redesigned). So Version 2.0 is totally incompatible with Version 1.0, and much confusion ensues as States try to decide which "standard" to go with.

    Meanwhile, Microsoft comes out fast and dirty with Microsoft Vote and although it doesn't work too well at first (version 1.0 has a glitch where everyone who's first name begins with "L" is deleted), it works "well enough" and with the buckets of money that MS dumps on the States for new MS-compatible hardware, they quickly gain dominance in the market.

    The Open Source projects try to shift their focus to work with the MS hardware, chasing Microsoft's lead and running into a brick wall with the closed XML format that is encrypted and depends on hardware DRM to work.

    Apple brings out the iVote, which is a small device that lets you simply plug into an Apple voting machine anywhere and vote quickly and easily. Plus, it works. And quite a few people buy it and rave about how great it is, but because only Apple is allowed to make the actual voting machines, very few of them get manufactured and as a result the iVote falls into betamax territory.

    In the end, everybody uses MS Vote and complains about how closed it is, the Open Source crowd eventually gets their act together and comes out with a fantastic system that kicks butt but nobody cares any more, and that was that for the United States of America, thanks and goodnight.

  32. Worthless unless I compile and install it myself! by Anarchofascist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Who cares if you can get the source? Unless you can create a binary from a signed copy of the source on your own machine, then upload the compiled binary to the voting machine, how can you trust it? How do you know a secret final patch hasn't been added at the last minute?

    Paper trail is the only way, open or closed source doesn't matter. If I can walk away with a record of my vote, I'll be happy. If you added a little cash register printer and a roll of tape inside the machine and spot-audit one percent of the machine results, I'll be even happier.

    But if I can use an ink marker to make an indelible mark on a piece of paper, and have the paper counted physically by a dozen people, I'll be completely happy.

    Paper! Ink! It works!

    This whole sorry saga reminds me of a brutally frank piece of advice my Systems Analysis lecturer gave to the class.
    "Give your client a number of possible designs for the system. If we were completely honest, one of those designs might be for a purely manual process. But we're computer people, so of course we only provide computer-based solutions."

    --
    Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more, Or close the wall up with our American dead!
  33. Re:you MUST be out of the country for absentee by hawaiian717 · · Score: 2, Informative
    I'll add my voice to the chorus of Where the heck are you from?

    In Hawaii, they make it pretty simple:

    "Any person registered to vote may cast an absentee ballot."

    http://www.state.hi.us/elections/voteab.html

    --
    End of Line.
  34. Re:you MUST be out of the country for absentee by VertigoAce · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As far as being in college, it is sometimes useful to register to vote where you go to school. If your home state is somewhere that is heavily supportive of a particular candidate and your college is in a state that is largely undecided, you'd be better off voting in your school's state.

    Politicians might claim that this is illegal, but the courts have said otherwise. In New York, for example, you only need to be living there 30 days before an election to vote (as long as you don't vote anywhere else).

  35. I still don't understand... by HerbanLegend · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I can't understand where all the confusion is coming from on the E-Voting issue. The machines are supposed to address a problem:

    Problem:
    Present a list of voting choices in any number of languages, in audio for those who are blind, give them an opportunity to change their vote if they made a mistake, give them a second (and a third) chance to confirm their vote, and then make sure that their vote is counted.

    It sounds like a great application for computers. After all, multi-lingual GUIs are common and practical, and computers give you the chance to change your mind before you finalize the vote.

    Solution:
    Use the computer to format the ballot, so that you don't have to have different versions for every language, and so that the voter can confirm and reconfirm the votes before finally committing them to a paper ballot. The computer then "fills in " the ovals on the ballot, eliminating improperly filled or inadequately filled circles, at which point the voter can look at the paper and quadruple check that he voted for the right people, and put that ballot into a "dumb" optical scanner that JUST COUNTS. Nothing to tamper with, nothing to worry about - you could have 5 terminals to every counter, which would save money over the current system and would still guarantee (actually enhance) the accuracy of the vote.

    It's almost like somebody DOESN'T WANT the vote to be counted properly.

  36. Open voting consortium & Voter verified receip by dwheeler · · Score: 3, Informative
    You might want to also check outThe Open Voting Consortium (OVC) is a non-profit organization dedicated to the development, maintenance, and delivery of open voting systems for use in public elections. OVC is developing a reference version of free voting software to run on very inexpensive PC hardware, which produces voter-verifiable paper ballots.

    One real problem with eVACS is that, to my knowledge, it doesn't produce voter-verified receipts yet (please let me know if I'm wrong). Thankfully, the new OSS/FS site identifies this as one of the first things to be added. As noted by places such as the verified voting site, voter verified receipts are a critical need. In fact, I'd argue that only the counted paper ballots should actually count, and make sure that the vote-creating and vote-counting systems are separate (using some sort of standard representation on the paper, so that you can have different groups re-implement each side).

    --
    - David A. Wheeler (see my Secure Programming HOWTO)
  37. Vote counting must remain labour-intensive by gk2004 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The problem with electronic voting is that the ability to distort the reported outcome of the poll is concentrated in very few hands. With a paper system, a large distortion requires the conspiracy of a correspondingly large number of tellers and local announcers of results.

    Open Source is desirable, but is not in itself a panacea. For example, impeccable code could be published, but something entirely different could be installed.

    That is not to say that a paper system prevents dubious outcomes. It's just that they are more likely to come to light, and be contested (as far as a supreme court, maybe...)

  38. Paper trail is more important than open source by davidwr · · Score: 2

    Few things are more important than open-source for electronic voting machines.

    Having a voter-verifiable paper audit trail is one of them.

    Open source does not equal perfect, it just means much much more likely to be close to perfect.

    Even with bad software, a voter-verified paper audit can preserve the integrity of the election.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  39. Successfully used at a national election? by UoNTidal · · Score: 2, Informative

    Sorry to rain on the parade here, but EVACS wasn't used for a national election (federal elections and referenda are conducted by the Australian Electoral Commission). It was used in the 2001 ACT Legislative Assembly election, where about 220 000 voters selected 17 representatives. Of those votes, 16 559 votes were actually cast using the system - less than 10 percent.

    I would be more impressed if it had been used in an election for a bicameral parliament like New South Wales. The above the line/below the line ballot paper used for the upper house (also used for the Senate and NSW local government elections) would be a greater challenge, given the large number of candidates (the "tablecloth" ballot paper of the 1999 NSW election is a classic example).

  40. Re:When is civil disobedience civil disobedience? by TRACK-YOUR-POSITION · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Civil Disobedience made GREAT sense throughout most of the 20th century, because the great powers of the world required a huge amount of labor to get anything done. A society practicing civil disobedience is basically a gigantic General Strike--no work shall be done as long as injustice remains. India was worthless with Gandhi agitating Indians, so the Brits left.

    But now that manufacturing is becoming more and more automated, and the pool of laborers is growing so quickly, labor is worth less and less and less, and physical resources those people sit on is worth more and more.

    So as the decades wear on in this century, you can expect violence and genocide to become more and more frequent as responses to civil disobedience of any sort. The people of impoverished country X aren't going to put up with my exploiting them anymore? We'll, just kill them all and import workers from impoverished country Y.

    Civil disobedience works with humans, but as society becomes more and more regimented and mechanical, it becomes more inhuman.

  41. Counting absentee ballots. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2, Informative

    Absentee ballots aren't counted unless the election is close.

    Absentee ballots are counted. Period.

    In some jurisdictions they're counted before the polls close and their count goes out immediately after closing time, before the rest of the votes are counted. In others they might not show up on the count for days. But they DO get counted.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  42. Re:Trust the machines (Electoral College) by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How about just splitting a state's electors along popular vote lines? In Presidential-2000 election 50% of Minnesota's 10 electors would have gone to Bush. (There are already a few (2?) states who do this).

    And any state can chose to do this. If you want it in your state, ask for it. Or (if you have initiative in your state), file an initiative and start getting signatures.

    However, the winner-take-all nature of most states' choice of electors is part of the original compromise that led to the electoral college.

    With either popular-vote selection of the president or a proportional system of selecting voters, one populous state with a corrupt election system swings the election. Winner-take-all means corruption of one state can't override a narrow margin in a large set of small states.

    Wiinner-take-all also sets up a situation where the presidential candidates must appeal to both the big AND the little states in order to collect enough electoral votes to win. With proportional voting it's more efficient to go for a big margin in a few large urban areas and ignore the flyover country.

    And THAT LAST was why it was created: As a protection for the little states against being swamped by a couple big ones, in order to give them the confidence to sign on with the union in the first place. From the 1780s to today there have ALWAYS been a small number of heavily populated states and a large number of sparse ones. The president is a single officeholder for ALL the states, not just the urban ones. Make it a popular vote and he becomes the president of a few urban coastal cities, creating a political situation more like that of France.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  43. Forking for US version won't help that much by dgibson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I helped write the original eVACS system. Forking the code for a US voting system is a nice idea, but probably won't be as helpful as you might like. Most of the complexity in the eVACS code is dealing with the ACT's Hare-Clark electoral system. That affects both the voting interface and the back end counting system. It even affects the system's whole architecture, because the votes have to all be recorded, then counted as a batch, rather than tallied as they are entered which is the obvious way to count a first-past-the-post US style election.

    So looking at the system might yield some good ideas about how to organise the system (in particular how the sequence of voting and authentication is handled), but I don't think all that much code could be reused.

  44. My thoughts... by polyp2000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Id always advocate an open source voting system. It seems that it ought to be imperitive that any electronic voting system can be audited publically to reveal any flaws or biases. However, it seems to me that either way even with an open source system how would one prove that the system used during the electing / voting process is the same as the one being available for public audit?

    And how to acertain that those running the system did or did not bias or effect the results in some way?

    Maybe electronic voting isnt such a good idea at all? Maybe the safer option is to stick with a paper based situation that cannot easily be fudged ? (that is not to say that a paper based system is also not open to fudging...)

    Whatever way, and whatever flaws, the public should have unfettered access to every part of the process at least to the extent that nothing is hidden. Open source and closed source are just as open to abuse as is a paper based system. As much of it remains examinable the better in my opinion.

    Nick...

    --
    Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
  45. Opportunity to bring the issue into the public ? by mjtg · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The fact that this switch from open to effectively closed voting software has occured in Australia might create an opportunity to get the issue out into the media.

    Unlike most countries, voting is actually compulsory in Australia. If you don't vote in a federal or state election, and you don't have a good reason, you get fined. If you refuse to pay your fine, then you have to answer to a court. If you keep on refusing to accept some form of penalty, then eventually you get sent to jail.

    If even a small number of people were to refuse to vote in an election, on the basis that they thought the election process was not transparent, and then subsequently wound up in jail, this would be bound to generate media interest. It would get the issue out in the open where the public could hear the issues involved and think about it. Who knows, maybe it could even attract international attention ?

  46. Re:eVOTING? Bah thats simple! by TrixX · · Score: 2, Funny

    This must be the code used 4 years ago: In the case of a tie, it gives the victory to Bush!