Dr Who, Daleks Kiss And Make Up

Dynamoo writes "The BBC is reporting that the creators of the new series of Doctor Who due next year have reached an agreement with the estate of the late Terry Nation to include the Daleks in the new series. This means that I'll definitely be watching.. although whether from behind the sofa or not remains to be seen." We previously reported on the apparent exterminate-ion of the lovable pepperpots from this new version.

Comments

Terry Nation probably thought....

[Neo-Rio-101]

Terry Nation probably thought: "Hmm... I just get this garbage can here turn it upside down, cut ping-pong balls in half and stick them all over the outside, thrust a whisk or a plunger on the front, and I'll be scaring kids for generations!"

Re:Terry Nation probably thought....

[permaculture]

Terry was trying to make an alien that didn't look like a man in a rubber suit. The Daleks were a sack of protaplasm with an arm, who had to live in robot bodies after they'd devastated their home planet.

Unlike the alien from the film 'Alien', they actually _couldn't_ be played by a man in a rubber suit.

Re:Terry Nation probably thought....

[TomV]

Terry Nation wrote the scripts and created the Dalek characters. The design was by BBC employee Raymond Cusick, and this lies at the root of the rights problems / confusion now resolved - the Nation Estate could licence the name Dalek and characteristic speech patterns such as "Resistance is Uselesss" and, of course, "Exterminate", but not the likeness. The BBC could licence, and use, the likeness, but not the name or behaviour.

Tim Hancock, Terry Nation's former Agent and boss of "The Nation Estate" for licensing purposes, tried to bump up the price above the agreed UKP250,000 for using the Daleks in the new series at the last moment, and the BBC called his bluff. The Estate wasn't going to make much money if the new series didn't use the Daleks at all.

Re:Terry Nation probably thought....

[Talthane]

Except Terry Nation didn't design the Daleks and the only thing he thought about was the lack of legs, based on a viewing of the Georgian State Ballet where the dancers appeared to glide due to their floor-length dresses. Raymond Cusick designed the rest, and he was the one inspired by a pepperpot.

Re:Terry Nation probably thought....

[jeremyp]

Except, being British, he'd have thought "rubbish bin" not "garbage can". :-)

A friend of mine had a theory that the whole upside down rubbish bin/garbage can thing was crucial to the popularity(?!) of the daleks. Any kid could put a bin on their head and *be* a dalek.

Yeah but...

[Chordonblue]

I'm still going to miss Tom Baker... Best scarves on T.V... ;)

Where Did the Daleks Go In the Meantime?

[PipianJ]

During the hiatus, the Daleks did a little-known movie called "Mr. Dalek Goes to Washington."

Here is a still from the movie.

"Expatiate!"

Re:Where Did the Daleks Go In the Meantime?

[Christopher Thomas]

Here's another Dalek tribute, featuring a con artist named Sam Starfall (normally wearing an animatronic environment suit).

Re:Where Did the Daleks Go In the Meantime?

[lewko]

Even better: Dalek creator Davros and Stephen Hawking together in Electric Dreams

Re:Where Did the Daleks Go In the Meantime?

[leoxx]

Whomever created that image is in a lot of trouble, because SCO owns the copyright to the Daleks and isn't afraid to use it!

YAY

[zakezuke]

As a Dr. Who fan, I get frustrated with intellectual property over the damned Darleks(tm). While I appricated the Terry Nation's vision, I can not see how even the BBC could ruin the commercial value of any spin off project that future non Doctro Who Darleks might have for they are nothing more then a B movie stereotypical evil villain.

Re:YAY

[xsupergr0verx]

As a Dr. Who fan, I get frustrated with intellectual property over the damned Darleks(tm).

I saw Darl and intellectual property in the same sentence. Thought I wandered into the wrong section in Slashdot.

Re:YAY

[dorward]

B-Movie? Sterotype? No! Dalek Empire is now in its third series. The first was excellent - I just need to sort out my budget to get the rest.

Re:YAY

[Colazar]

Not a very big Dr. Whoi fan if you can't even spell "dalek" correctly.

Classic hyper-correction. What do you want to bet that the poster speaks a dialect that drops the R's after vowels. Such speakers tend to stick random "silent R's" in words, because they can't figure out the rhyme or reason behind which words have R's in them and which words don't.

Re:I could never get into it

[DAldredge]

You are now banned from /.

Please turn in your UID and report for reeducation.

So really, why do we need, *need* them?

[gordgekko]

I loved the good Doctor as much as any other geek but do we absolutely have to have Daleks in the next series? Some of the best episodes ever -- like Pyramids of Mars -- had no Daleks.

Rather than take the series in an interesting and new direction, we're essentially getting the same series but with better F/X. Why not just have The Master and the Daleks in every episode?

Don't get me wrong, I love the Daleks but it was the occasionally very superb writing that got me, not any specific villians.

Re:So really, why do we need, *need* them?

[urbaer]

Some of the best episodes ever -- like Pyramids of Mars -- had no Daleks.

They tried to be in it, but after several attempts decided that the pyramids were to steep to go up.

Let's hope the Daleks have some cool rocket jets in the next series.

Wait a second...

[cosmod]

Shouldn't that be Doctor Whom?

Re:Wait a second...

[value_added]

Only if the good Doctor is the object of the transitive verb "exterminate."

I hear the breakthrough was reached...

[Timbotronic]

...when the BBC agreed not to put any stairs in the new episodes.

Thank God

[ishmalius]

I could never even consider watching Dr Who, or endure a single episode, without those beloved evil vacuum cleaners.

This is a bad thing...

[EvilCabbage]

Instead of taking the franchise new places, we'll be seeing re-hashed bad guys. Great.

First it was half assed covers of songs I used to love (thanks a lot Jessica Simpson), then Doom 3, now this. I'm starting to think that trying to keep nostalgia alive isn't worth the risk of stunting the growth of such a promising franchise.

Re:This is a bad thing...

[martinX]

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.

in fact,

[grepistan]

Best wardrobe, generally! Entire scenes of stories like 'The Aztecs' appear to have been casted, set and shot in the seedier kind of drag queen establishment, complete with makeup. The fact that any of the actors could keep a straight face just shows how talented they were!

DOn't get me wrong though, I love Doctor Who. It's still on tv every weeknight here (yes, we ARE that backward Down Here)...

It Must Be Late

[Witchblade]

I'm not a Dr. Who fan at all, but I read the headline as "Dr Who, Daleks, Kiss and Makeup". That imagined comma made me think for a minute that KISS were getting involved. I've been wondering why they never made another move ...

Better F/X? But wouldn't that ...

[antispam_ben]

Rather than take the series in an interesting and new direction, we're essentially getting the same series but with better F/X.

But wouldn't that ruin it? I'm not a True Fan, but I thought "camp" was an integral part of the show.

Re:Better F/X? But wouldn't that ...

[BoneFlower]

Better effects would be good up to a point. Perhaps improve the effects to the level of the original Star Trek series or even Battlestar Galactica. Effects would still have a primitive feel, but not be totally backwards which would kill a large part of the potential new fanbase that *didn't* fall in love with the old show.

As long as they don't bring them to the level of the later Star Trek series or Stargate SG-1... I'll be happy with it.

Re:Better F/X? But wouldn't that ...

[Wildfire Darkstar]

By and large, the original series was not especially lacking in the FX department. It was generally on par with any science fiction show during its time, really. The show only managed to gain a reputation for being done "on the cheap" because of two basic reasons. First of which was that what was probably the single most famous season of the show (season 17, the season where Douglas Adams served as script editor) did have the tendency of being cheaper-looking than was probably healthy. This is also just about the only season that qualifies as being truly campy (thanks, in part, to the Adams connection). There were other moments, here and there, but, even at its worst, it's not "Rocky Horror," and by and large the camp value is overstated.

The other reason is that there was a bit of a delayed reaction at work in the way the show was recieved in North America. The earliest years of the show, from the early-to-mid 1960s, didn't reach the United States until the late 1970s at the earliest. Taken in the correct context, it's not bad. Certainly, it wouldn't be winning awards, but it's more than passable. By the standards of the late 1970s? Yes, it looks weak. But the show itself had long since moved beyond that, anyway.

Don't get me wrong: it's not overwhelming, and the strength of the series really never has lied with the special effects. But it's not the sub-"Plan 9 from Outer Space" mess that its reputation would lead one to believe. It holds its own fairly admirably with its contemporaries, keeping in mind that the series was ending just about the time when "Star Trek: the Next Generation" was beginning. And the first two seasons or so of that show look rather cheap, too.

The other thing is, it's was a very long-lived program, which had many different show-runners at various points in its history. Different producers/editors brought very different sensibilities into play. Depending on what time period and what producer you look at, you could easily come away believing the show was predominantly campy space opera, spy thriller, hard-edged military sci-fi, magical realist period drama, or hard science fiction, straight up. Which is, after all, part of the charm of the premise, and part of the reason why the show lasted twenty six seasons to begin with. Not to mention why it, as much, if not more, than Star Trek did, managed to persevere so long after its cancellation....

Why would you WANT to bring the Daleks back?

[sunspot42]

There hasn't been a good Dalek story since the mid-'60s. Pertwee's encounters with the Daleks were hardly the highlight of his career as the Doctor in the late '60s and early '70s. During his 7-season run as the Doctor Tom Baker had one mediocre, overlong Dalek serial (1975's "Genesis of the Daleks", redeemed only by Michael Wisher's fantastic performance as the Dalek's crazed creator, Davros), and one truly awful Dalek 4-parter, "Destiny of the Daleks" in 1979. Peter Davison's Doctor encountered the portly pepperpots half a decade later in 1984's lamentable "Resurrection of the Daleks". Colin Baker's Doctor runs into the Daleks the next year in the silly "Revelation of the Daleks". I've never seen Sylvester McCoy's Doctor's 1988 Dalek serial "Remembrance of the Daleks", but the general consensus seems to regard it as no better than "Genesis of the Daleks" at best.

The Daleks were an idea that ran out of gas after the initial Dalek craze of the early '60s ran its course in the UK. Since then, a Dalek serial has been a guaranteed bad time. They're more a curse to Doctor Who than a blessing, and the real challenge for any new Who series would be trying to reinvent them into something truly chilling and remotely plausible to a contemporary audience. It's possible I suppose, but Who's past producers tried and failed for almost 20 years to produce a Dalek serial as engaging to modern audiences as original Dalek adventures like "Dalek Invasion Earth" were to audiences in the early '60s. I think they'd be better off ignoring the Daleks - and particularly the Davros character, who has been unnecessarily and ludicrously dredged into every Dalek adventure since 1975's "Genesis" - and concentrating on creating compelling new enemies for the Doctor to fight.

And if they must revisit the past, they'd be far better off reimaging more plausible Who adversaries, like the Sontarans (reptilian clone warriors) and the Cybermen (televised sci-fi's original Borg).

Re:Why would you WANT to bring the Daleks back?

[jebiester]

I guess an Arch-Villian who would be totally defeated by a set of stairs makes it hard writing a decent script.

Re:Why would you WANT to bring the Daleks back?

[Wildfire Darkstar]

"Genesis" and "Remembrance" both are generally considered to be the best of the post-1960s Dalek stories. The former more than the latter, though. But that's only eight stories out of a twenty year period, mind.

The Daleks tend to be only as good as the people writing for them. They're at their best when used as part of some sort of metaphorical purpose: Terry Nation's "Genesis of the Daleks" likened them to the Nazis, and drew heavy parallels between their creation and the rise of the Third Reich. Ben Aaronvitch's "Remembrance of the Daleks" did a similar trick against the backdrop of the civil rights movement of the 1960s to make a point about racism.

A similar problem faces a lot of Doctor Who monsters, though: the Cybermen suffered through almost all their post-1960s appearances as writers generally tended to disregard the whole risks-of-technology idea that was at their core of their creation. The Cybermen, in particular, rapidly degenerated into joke status through their supposed allergy to gold, a far cry from the humanity-once-removed creepiness of their first appearances.

Re:Why would you WANT to bring the Daleks back?

[sunspot42]

>I'd have to disagree that the Sontarans or the Cybermen
>are more plausable enemies - the first a race devoted to
>war but unable to do anything about that little vent on
>the back of the neck and the second vulnerable to any
>opponent that can rustle up some gold and a cheesegrater.

Oh, I agree - they both need work as well. Those Achilles heels the writers built into the races were silly 20 years ago.

I just think there's more there to work with than there is with the Daleks. The original concept behind the Cybermen was truly creepy, for the '60s. I think that would be easy to recapture for a modern audience. Likewise the Sontarans are physically an impressive enemy, though clearly someone needs to teach them the concept behind the "gas cap".

The Daleks could probably be reimaged as well into a truly credible threat - say as little biomechanical tanks that fly around and blow stuff up - but you'd probably have to change so much of their behavior and their backstory you might as well spend your time coming up with new, better enemies.

One of the other problems late-era Doctor Who had back in the late '80s was needlessly dredging up old enemies - Omega, the Daleks & Davros, the Sea Monsters - just to have a nostalgia fest. Invariably the results were mixed at best. Even back in Tom Baker's day, the outstanding episodes - "The Ark In Space", "Terror of the Zygons" (if you can overlook the bad effects for a certain monster), "The Pyramids of Mars", "The Face of Evil", "The Robots of Death", "The Talons of Weng Chiang" - all of them introduced new adversaries for the Doctor to combat. Offhand the only episode I can think of that brought back an old adversary and sorta kinda worked was "Earthshock", which re-introduced the Cybermen after nearly a decade's absence. It wasn't perfect either, but at least it had its moments and wasn't terribly dull or silly.

Re:Why would you WANT to bring the Daleks back?

[Tony Hoyle]

They can levitate. There's at least one episode where they did this (Dr. Who screamed "Run up the stairs", did do then turned around to see the levitating dalek following them).

With the power vested in me,

[Anonymous Coward]

I crown you King Dork.

Re:With the power vested in me,

[sunspot42]

Why, thank you, Dork Pope!

Re:No but can I call you a...

[Anonymous Coward]

b-r-i-t-i-s-h s-p-e-l-l-i-n-g y-o-u d-u-m-b f-u-c-k

Note the login.

[Daleks]

I haven't been kissing any doctors.

Totally offtopic factoid:

[PedanticSpellingTrol]

Before the civil war, whenever US foreign policy was discussed in newspapers, they always read "The United States of America are..." rather than "is..." The clear shift in power to the 'federal' (damned interstate highway funds) government afterward caused the change in grammar.

The amazing thing was...

[rsilvergun]

that the author had any say in the first place. Here in the good 'ole us of a, there never would have been an issue, since the author would've signed away his rights ages ago. Not defending our system, just saying I'm amazed this happened at all.

Douglass Adams wrote for Dr. Who

[TheTXLibra]

I was reading "Don't Panic" (sort of a biography on Douglas Adams during the period when he wrote H2G2) and apparently he used to be one of the writers, and later a script editor for them. And it was during the Tom Baker years too... ahh, the good years...

...anyone know what happened to good old Tom?

Re:Douglass Adams wrote for Dr. Who

[BasilBrush]

He got progressively more insane as his hair grew greyer. Last sighted in "Fort Boyard", a "Crystal Maze" rip off.

Re:Douglass Adams wrote for Dr. Who

[Wildfire Darkstar]

Tom Baker is still around, but not doing anything much of note, really, other than playing the part of a slightly crazy semi-recluse rather well. He had a brief part in the abysmally awful (yet oddly compelling, in an Ed Wood sort of way) "Dungeons and Dragons" a few years back as an elf.

Re:Douglass Adams wrote for Dr. Who

[aedan]

Tom Baker does the voice overs in Little Britain

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/tv/littlebritain/a bo ut_the_show.shtml

aedan

Re:Douglass Adams wrote for Dr. Who

[castor_acer]

In addition to the other sightings mentioned, Tom Baker appeared on a regular basis in a cultish British TV series called 'Randall And Hopkirk Deceased', a modern re-make of a 60s TV series of the same name.

Re:Nitpicking for the Brits...

[Tom Veil]

The story should read "The BBC are..."

BBC = British Broadcasting Corporation

"The British Broadcasting Corporation are"?

I'm pretty sure the original wording were correct. ;-)

Re:Nitpicking for the Brits...

[uberdave]

The BBC website always uses the singular, and they should know.

Re:News ?

[Wildfire Darkstar]

Considering the amount of money/publicity the BBC is dumping into this project? It's potentially one of the biggest things BBC TV has done in years, and I would argue it matters as much as any entertainment news does to a site like Slashdot.

Although, to be fair, it certainly is also "stuff by/for nerds"....

Thatcherism across time and space

[evilandi]

The BBC has broken the strike over terms and conditions for the Daleks. Apparently the Cybermen began crossing the picket lines in unmarked coaches, while the Daleks pelted them with rotten fruit, shouting "SCABS ... WE ... KNOW ... WHERE ... YOU ... LIVE".

As part of the deal, thirty-seven gravel pits will close.

An Equity union representative, speaking of behalf of the Daleks, said "This is a sad time for the Daleks, but at the end of the day, they have bills to pay, and the electricity for the genetic embryo chambers doesn't come cheap."

The strike-busting Cybermen are understood to have had their contracts terminated early in favour of the new hovering Dalek Battletank design, previously only seen in paperback. The Cyberman leader said "THE DALEKS MAY HAVE WON THIS BATTLE BUT OUR EMPIRE WILL CONTINUE TO EXPAND."

Meanwhile a dispute is believed to have broken out inside the Dalek camp, with the Supreme Dalek unhappy at the terms negotiated by Davros. In a news conference earlier, Davros said "This marks the next generation of the Kaled race. We have evolved beyond rails, beyond wheels, beyond low-budget bluescreen CGI hovering awkwardly up stairs. Although I'm sorry to see Ace go, she was rather fit, wasn't she, and she still looks hot in those childrens' programmes she presents."

The Supreme Dalek was unavailable for comment, although he was earlier overheard saying "I ... HOPE ... DAVROS ... LIKES ... HOSPITAL ... FOOD."

Animated Dr. Who series

[Anonymous Writer]

Has anyone checked out the animated Dr. Who series on the web? The Master ends up being revived as a new robot assistant for the Doctor, kind of like a new K-9. I haven't followed all of Dr. Who, but I presume this meant the Master was killed off at some point. It's an interesting twist and I wonder if they will carry this kind of thing into the new series for some kind of continuity.

Re:Animated Dr. Who series

[wolverine1999]

The Master took a new body in the tv movie (Doctor Who: The Movie) with McGann as the 8th Doctor Who. At the end of the movie, the Master is sucked into the Eye of Harmony (the TARDIS' power source). We don't know if he is still alive, or dead, so that's the state of the Master. Of course, the Master appeared very much alive in the BBC Novels with the 8th Doctor, but I don't whether the new tv show producers will take the books as canon. I'd rather they wouldn't, since Gallifrey was destroyed by the Doctor himself in the books (and he doesn't remember it to make it worse!).

Re:Maybe the new series will address....

[zennor]

As all Who devotees should know the last series with the Daleks, "Remembrance of the Daleks" finally showed them moving up stairs to get out of a cellar. They used a hover/rocket-type mechanism from my hazy memory. This htus totally wrecked my favourite cartoon from "Punch" magazine. This had the daleks at the bottom of a set of stairs. The head Dalek said: "Well.. that certainly bu**ers our plans for universal conquest!"

Is it just me?

[DikSeaCup]

.. although whether from behind the sofa or not remains to be seen.

I think it's common geek issue that they can see all the threads of thought so quickly that, to non-geeks, often their comments seem as non-sequitrs, until the comment is explained.

That being said, is it just me or did anyone else suddenly get the image of the article poster running around with a baseball bat, smashing aluminum trash cans and anything else that looked remotely like a Dalek?

Re:Who are the Daleks?

[doctorwhofan]

Well, the best guide to who the Daleks are, is probably the Dalek entry on this page: http://www.lofficier.com/dwudd.html There are loads of Doctor Who sites with pictures of Daleks, but this is the Dalek gallery on the official Doctor Who site: http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/doctorwho/gallery/dalek/

I can't be the only Python fanatic here

[noims]

We previously reported on the apparent exterminate-ion of the lovable pepperpots from this new version.

Am I the only one here who first thought of Monty Python pepperpots when I saw this? You know, the 'middle aged, middle class women' who first demonstrated that you can't tell the difference between Wizzo butter and a dead crab.

The most disturbing thing for me was trying to figure out where these pepperpots might have appeared. I mean, on one hand they'd certainly make a powerful adversary for the poor doctor, but on the other hand can't you just see a couple of them following him around as sidekicks?

- Look, Mrs Conclusion! The Cybermen and Daleks have united againstus!
- Oooh! Well I never. And they used to be such nice people. I mean, society today. Young people. Ooooh. Tut tut tut.

Noims