Slashdot Mirror
The Saga of Katie.com
digitalcaffeine writes "The gist of the story is that Katie Tarbox became a victim of an online sexual predator when she was 13. She wrote a book about it in 2000 and Penguin Putnam made the title of the book 'Katie.Com', which unfortunately was a domain name owned by Katie Jones since 1996. Now Tarbox's lawyer is demanding that Jones turn over the domain name.
Penguin refuses to apologize, saying that it would be a violation of their free speech to re-title the book and that Jones never trademarked katie.com, so they can do what they want with the words."
It's not also a violation of the domain owner's free speech rights to have to "re-title" her domain?
There's something ironic about her lawyers fighting to have the Katie.com domain so that she can promote her book about Internet predators.
without ever googling for the domain name they used? Unbelievably clueless.
Why doesn't the real (slim?) Katie make katie.com a convienient mirror of, say, goatse. Then the people will complain to Penguin and they'll be forced to do something. Like change the title. It's her right to decide the content of her page, right? So I think she'd even be in the clear :-)
:)
Of course ligit visitors might think Katie is a weirdo, but hey. It's better than having Katie.tv_fm_info_dumbtld
My other car is first.
FSF should sue Penguin and get Tux's name back.
--
Cheers,
Erick
http://www.busyweather.com/
I sent a letter to Penguin yesterday letting them know that I disapprove of their actions in this matter.
It's conceivable, but unlikely, that if enough people write or call they will change their tactics.
I assume that dealing with a large publisher is like dealing with government; I expect that they ignore email complaints but are more likely to respond to letters or phone calls.
Maybe Penguin should have thought about that before releasing the book? Dumbasses. On the plus side, I've decided to becoming a budding author. My debut book is scheduled to be released on April 1 2005, and its name will be "cia.gov".
1. Write a book called Amazon.com about ancient warrior women that are stalked online.
2. Take control of said domain name then sell it back.
3. Profit
Unlike the plans of the underpants gnomes and SCO, this one may actually be crazy enough to work.
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
1) Name book after existing, small time website
2) Create small copywrite-related controversy over said site
3) Get small site url posted on Slashdot.
4) Reduce small website to smouldering ruin
5) Offer to accept smouldering ruin as "donation."
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
To answer some questions that I've received today, firstly as far as I know the rather aggressive lawyer who contacted me yesterday is not part of Penguin Puttnam but is working with Katie Tarbox on future projects and trying to gain control of my domain name for these projects. She informed me that things would 'only get worse' for me from here if I didn't do something about it - i.e. give it to them.
Finally, a point about this domain name. When this book launched I had no choice but to take down the content I previously had published on the front page because of the traffic coming to the site and having no choice but to remove it if I didn't want my professional and personal reputation damaged by it. I still use it, although I don't link from the front page of course, and one day I sincerely hope I'll be able to move my content back up where it belongs.
Cheers,
Erick
http://www.busyweather.com/
You have a rather broad definition of "random, uninteresting American." If you had bothered to do even a modicum of research, you would find that Katie Jones (owner of katie.com) lives in London, and Pearson Group (which seems to own the Penguin Putnam group) is based in London.
You clearly dislike it when Americans assume everything is about them, but is it fair to complain when you also assume everything is about Americans?
Yours Sincerely,
IPFreely
There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
if you would like to let penguin know what you think of their strongarm tactics, you might find the following information useful:
c o.ukn guin.co.uk
Penguin Books Ltd, Pearson Customer Operations
Edinburgh Gate, Harlow, Essex, CM20 2JE
Fax: 0870 850 1115
www.penguin.co.uk
customer.service@penguin.co.uk
orders@penguin.
export@penguin.co.uk
internationalsales@pe
Penguin Group (USA)
375 Hudson Street, New York, NY 10014
www.penguinputnam.com
Penguin Group (Australia)
250 Camberwell Road, Camberwell, VIC 3124
Australia
Tel: 61-3-9871-2400
Fax: 61-3-9870-6086
www.penguin.com.au
Penguin Group (Canada)
10 Alcorn Ave., Suite 300, Toronto, Ontario, M4V 3B2 Canada
Tel: (416) 925-2249
Fax: (416) 925-0068
www.penguin.ca
Penguin India
11 Community Centre, Panchsheel Park, New Delhi 110 017, India
Tel: 91-11-2649-4401
Fax: 91-11-2649-4402
www.penguinbooksindia.com
Penguin Ireland
25 St Stephen's Green, Dublin 2, Ireland
Tel: 00-353-1-661-7695
Fax: 00-353-1-661-7696
Email: info@penguin.ie
www.penguin.ie
Penguin Group (New Zealand)
Private Bag 102-902, North Shore Mail Centre, Auckland 1310
Albany, Auckland, New Zealand
Tel: 64-9-415-4700
Fax: 64-9-415-4703
www.penguin.co.nz
Penguin South Africa
24 Sturdee Avenue, Rosebank, 2169, South Africa
Tel: 27-11-327-3550
Fax: 27-11-327-6574
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
Right on the money. How stupid are the Penguin sales and marketing folks to release a book with a domain name as the title, when they did not even own it. The one they own katieT.com should have been the title. It is almost like they had a disconnect between marketing and the art department. (Someone in the art department said "KatieT? It has to be Katie.")
Even the creators of Friends were smart enough to register www.hahanotsomuch.com before it was used as a joke URL in the TV show two seasons ago.
Penguin is trying to make Katie pay for their stupidity.
Have you Meta Moderated t
Consider that a lot of p(a)edophiles were sending pictures and other stuff to the email address, so you know they were visiting katie.com, too.
Would you post your daughter's baby pictures on a site you knew was a target for p(a)edophiles?
Hopelessly pedantic since 1963.
Couldn't Katie Jones sue Katie Tarbox for libeling her as a sexual assault victim?
1) OK, then... phone numbers are not trademarked. If I use my next door neighbor's phone number as the title of a book I should be OK, right? Probably up until I get sued for the cost of him changing his phone number and all associated costs. Imagine all the crank calls he'd receive at 3 am. This is why books and media started using 555 numbers.
2) I hate victim mentality that equates their suffering with entitlement. If you were a victim of something (esp. as a child), suddenly people are supposed to donate stuff to you, like domain names?!? ("Think of the Children!" the cynical demand heard everywhere...) Sure, it's a stretch to attribute the publishers' and lawyer's desires and expectations to their client, but she has the power to tell them "No! Not in my name, Asshole!"
katie.com was there long before the book was even a gleam in a publisher's eye, so Penguin Putnam can go suck it. I hope they get their ass sued off.
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
With appologies to Tommy Tutone:
O Mioniom
O Mioniom
m
Katie, Katie who can I turn to
We want you to give us something you want to hold on to
I know you think we're like the others before
Who saw your info in the WHOIS database
Kaaatie, I got your domain!
I'm gonna make it mine!
Kaatie please change your domain!
K-A-T-I-E-dot-COMiomiom
K-A-T-I-E-dot-C
Katie, Katie it's the site for me
Donate your domain, it'll make me so happy
Our lawyers called you before
Yeah they've got some nerve
We aren't sorry that
Your life was disturbed
Kaaatie, I got your domain!
I'm gonna make it mine!
Kaatie please change your domain!
K-A-T-I-E-dot-COMiomiom
K-A-T-I-E-dot-C
K-A-T-I-E-dot-COMiomiom
K-A-T-I-E-dot-COMionio
What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
Trademarks don't necessarily need to be registered. See http://www.bitlaw.com/trademark/common.html for a brief summary of common law trademark rights, but also do a google search http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q= common+law+trademark+and+internet&btnG=Search
What you'll find is that trademark law is actually a lot more complex--and often contradictory--than you think.
OK, everyone seems a little confused about this - like, why now when the book was published in 2000?
For those that don't RTFA:
- In 2000, this book came out, and Katie Jones asked Dutton (subsidiary of Penguin) to change the title, as she had the domain name and they were hijacking it; as a result of the book title, KJ was receiving emails both detailing peoples abuse at the hands of paedophiles, as well as abusive emails from paedophiles themselves. See here and here. KJ took loads of stuff (including pictures of herself and family) off the site as a result - and Penguin ignored the request. I can't find the original slashdot article, although I'm sure there must have been one.
- Now, four years later, Jones gets a nasty letter, and this slashdot story is posted. This is caused by KT doing some thing about teaching kids about online safety (whether for money or altruism I don't know) - and them calling it Katie.com. Source.
- It seems the lawyer, one Parry Aftab, has a website.
There's a good summary (almost as good as this one) here, and suprisingly, on CNN.
She (Katie Tarbox) is, btw, answering to Emails sent to that address.
Just got a reply from her.
She seems to be in the opinion that she has no control over this, and it's Penguin Putnam who is at fault. Kinda of a cop out, if you ask me, and sidestepping the issue discussed in the article about her lawyer trying to intimidate Katie Jones to hand over katie.com for free.
Proletariat of the world, unite to kill Big MultiNational Corporations
In Soviet Russia, I ruled you
Given the fact that they originally entitled the book "girl.com" and the changed it because girl.com is a porn site, it is reasnable to assume they also checked out katie.com.
Basically, they made the decision NOT out of ignorance, but calculating the fact that they knew they could bully her out of what they perceive as a good choice of names for the book. Penguin is big and Katie is small. It would be unreasonable to assume Penguin has done any of this out of ignorance given their reason for changing the original name of the book.
Penguin should be sued in every nation they exist for two or three times damages. I believe they are doing this believing they will simply be able to out-lawyer her. Penguin should be punished in a way that is severe and public enough that a message to all abusive and litigeous corporations out there that immoral behavior should not be allowed.
"Right" is not defined as that which you can get away with. It is not right what they have done and continue doing. And it is not their right to do so... even if they manage to get away with it.
If I were Katie Jones, I'd setup Google AdWords on my front page, and perhaps a sponsored link to the katie.com book on Amazon, and use the proceeds to power a legal fund.
That makes it look like the ever-popular "My book got published and I can afford a lawyer, give me the domain name I want" approach. I hope Katie Jones finds good counsel to put Ms. Tarbox in her place.
Apparently the book got renamed at the last minute because girl.com (the original name) was a porn site. The solution for Katie Jones as owner (and sole publisher of content) of katie.com seems obvious to me!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
--J
haha. redirect to girl.com for a few weeks. that'll get 'em to change quick enough.
Check out this link. This guy had to stop referring to an old software company he was involved with in order to not get sued. You might recognize the name of the old company.
What's really been disgusting is that Penguin has refused to acknowledge Katie Jones since 2000, when the book was first published, and the massive traffic began swamping Katie.com. They created a massive slashdot effect on purpose, against someone who had no connection with the book, and now have clearly decided to complete what they started, and take over the domain for themselves. Pretty ugly preceedent if they succeed - misappropriate someone's trademark, slashdot somebody for a few years, then file suit to take over the domain.
Big corporation with millions of dollars, against a small businesswoman with limited resources. I say a legal defense fund is in order here, if it ever goes to trial (and of course, WHERE would it go to trial - the US, or the UK?)
I emailed the author, and got this reply: I appreciate your thoughts and understand them completely. It is not posted on my web site, but this issue is between Katie Jones and Penguin Putnam. They own the name Katie.com as a published book and decided to call it that. I can do nothing in my power to change it. I would suggest if you would like your voice to be heard and a chance that something is done about it, direct your sympathy to Penguin Putnam. For the record I have never harassed Katie Jones for her site. Best, Katie Tarbox Whether that is true or not, I have no idea, but in the interest of fairness, her reply should be noted, I think. I have to admit, my (limited) knowledge of publishing seems to indicate the actual author has very little juice here.
John Kenneth Fisher
Table of malContents
i'd be really tempted, but it might show an attempt to damage the reputation of penguin. you and i know this is wrong, bad and Just Plain Dumb, but you can never predict which way a court will see it...
There was a point where she was going to name her on-line (fear based I'm sure) education program katie.com. The publisher of her book wasn't involved with this. However the lawyer she is/was working with was. He has his own lame blog, like every other self-important ass in the universe. Now her program has been renamed something in the .org space.
As much as the ill-concieved and inconsiderately titled book has been a significant burden on Mrs. Katie Jones (Who runs a web-based small business with a chatroom no less) it's about Katie Tarbox demanding someone else's property be donated to her new commercial venture.
There's a reason she didn't call the book girl.com. And it's the obvious one. She didn't call it KatieT.com, which is the domain she now uses. But Katie.com. The property she neither owned nor could afford. So she greatly diminished the value and utility to the owner. Her lack of empathy for others, particularly after what she's been through is telling. I've no doubt that rather than lie, a person such as herself would just re-imagine the truth to be whatever is most convienent for the moment they are in.
In the interest of fairness Ms. Tarbox should, in the following printings of her book, retitle them, and include an apology to Mrs. Katie Jones. She wants people to learn from and have empathy for her. It's only reasonable that she learn from her own mistakes, and be considerate of others.
Never underestimate the power of geeks in large numbers.
As a friend of Katie Jones and the guy who hosts the katie.com domain...... Wow, you Slashdotters are an amazing bunch. No other site that has carried the story has generated a response as big the one from Slashdot. I thought my server had died earlier today, the amount of traffic it recieved was so large, and all from Slashdot. Thank you for taking an interest in this issue.
Besides, think about it for a minute: Micro? Soft? Not exactly a good name for pornography.
Good point. Do you think this might explain some of Microsoft's behaviors-- like maybe they are compensating for something?
I wonder if calling the porn movie "MacroHard" would work? It could be about a dweebish geek who just happened to be hung like a horse but was clueless about how to use this hardware. Maybe he needs to rely on telephone tech support... from India... hmmm. Could make for a good mainstream comedy.
The book was originally to be titled "girl.com" but that turned out to be a porn site, so they changed it to "katie.com" instead.
Right. So the publisher knows that girl.com won't work for them before they publish the book. Whether they were checking that out ahead of time or just stumbled on the information they likely would have said, "Hey, let's check out katie.com so we don't run into the same problem." That means the publisher used katie.com fully aware that it was in use by someone prior to publication. Now that "someone" is being pressured to relinquish their long-held domain name. I'm not a litigious individual (never been involved in a suit on either side and I'm nearing 50) but I'd be filing a countersuit in a heartbeat.
--
As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.
*********
Rob, we never tried to take katie.com, Katie Jones is doing all of this for publicity. We were always using katiesplace.org. I am also not Katie's lawyer or anyone's lawyer and Jone's knows that.
I donate 90% of my time to running a charity that protects people online. But replying only feeds Jone's hidden agenda here.
For that reason, I request that you not share this without my advance permission.
-----Original Message----- From: Rob Miles [mailto:rmiles@theskepticalreview.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 2:42 PM To: parry@aftab.com Subject: Katie Jones and katie.com
Please stop your campaign to force Katie Jones to give up HER domain, katie.com. Even since the book by the came out, she has dealt with unwanted and unwarranted attention. Maybe this all started as a mistake or an oversight, but to plan to release additional material under that same name (as reported by Ms. Jones on 7/30/04) is certainly mean-spirited at this point.
As of 7/27/04 your site lists a new venture with Katie Tarbox named katiesplace.org. If this means that you have in fact given up on trying to force Ms. Jones to give up her rightful domain, then I apologize for the above and offer you my deepest appreciation.
***********
For the record, I consider any email sent to me to be my own property, regardless of any request or disclaimer saying otherwise.
The point of keeping the the moral high ground is that it's the moral high ground.
The point of morals is that they are morals.
Switching morals on and off based on the actions of others makes them cease to be morals.
God I'm tired of this.. Katie T is nothing but a greedy selfimportant bitch.
She was NOT raped. She did go and meet a sleezy guy who turned out to be a lot older than she expected... But she did this when she was 17.. not 13 as all the press material implies. Additionally, she wasn't raped at all... Her mom and coach walked in on them while they were kissing and feeling each other up.
He was eventually charged with crossing state lines with the intention of having sex with a minor.. he was also charged with some bogus CDA seducing a minor over the internet charge. The CDA was overturned later that year.
The only victim here is katie.com
"5 of 622 people found the following review helpful:
..." ...
..
***** (5 stars)
Katie.com by Katherine Tarbox was a great book to read. I would recommend it to ages 12 and up. I liked Katie.com because
"203 of 203 people found the following review helpful:
* (1 star)
The writer of the book and the publishers should be ashamed of themselves.
DO NOT BUY THIS BOOK, and certainly think again about buying from this publisher."
"Wow" is right. At present there is over 200 negative reviews of the book, "modded up" by at least 80-90 people each, and the few 5 star reviews have been "modded down" to nothing, giving this book a final rating of two stars.
Do y'all have any idea how many people are buying their books on Amazon these days, and how many people will see thiss? This *will* have an impact on book sales, I guarantee it. I bet Penguin will stop harassing Katie Jones and they will probably issue an official apology within a couple weeks.
Oy! This all took place when she was 14. She *wrote the book* when she was 17, and it was published when she was 18. Just to clear that up.