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Google IPO Problems Surface

manavendra writes "The BBC is reporting that Google has admitted it may have breached stock market laws in the US, while CNET says Google may have run afoul of securities laws when it doled out millions of shares to employees and consultants over the past three years, according to a document filed Wednesday with the Securities and Exchange Commission."

23 of 235 comments (clear)

  1. It's not going to cost them that much... by garcia · · Score: 5, Informative

    This isn't huge news or anything. They found the mistake, theya re going to buy back the shares, it's going to cost about 25 million to buy the shares back.

    25 million out of their on-hand cash reserves isn't that much.

    1. Re:It's not going to cost them that much... by gorbachev · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It could end up costing the employees their "expected" profits from the IPO mania though.

      --
      In Soviet Russia, I ruled you
    2. Re:It's not going to cost them that much... by garcia · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's going to end up hurting the employees profits are the overhyped stock prices. As the article mentions it is likely that the prices will fall soon after the stock hits the open market.

    3. Re:It's not going to cost them that much... by Bill_Royle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not the amount of money that's an issue - it's the credibility factor, especially considering their IPO share pricing. Throw in the non-traditional auction format that they're using, and now the fact that they're essentially admitting that they weren't managing their shares properly... one's left with the question: "Is it worth $108+ a share? And can they be trusted?"

      I'm a big fan of Google's, but I can think of a better ways to instill investor confidence than this approach.

    4. Re:It's not going to cost them that much... by Undertaker43017 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Which is why, I suspect, most people won't take them up on their offer. The article states any shares not sold back to the company will be registered, and then tradable. So it may cost them less than $25 million, provided no one sues, which I'm sure someone will....

    5. Re:It's not going to cost them that much... by techsoldaten · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, this is huge news. What the company is saying is they have been issuing stock to their employees for years, arranged a filing with the SEC that did not account for these shares, and now are trying to buy them back for pennies on the dollar compared to their IPO price.

      The thing is, deals like this are a slippery slope. Google needs to deal with the issue in order to go public, and cannot afford to pay out $3B to their current set of investors. If they manage to buy back the large majority of the stock, they will need to provide some incentive to get people to give away what is essentially a lot of money. Strange organizational changes, insane company expenses, ruffled feathers and internal battles could be the outcome of all this.

      All of the items mentioned above would be distractions from the core mission, and are not the sorts of things anyone wants to see from a company preparing to go public.

      M

  2. Offtpoic by (trb001) · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This may be offtopic, by why is this in the YRO category? I don't see how this has to do with digital, or analog, personal rights.

    --trb

  3. Too Bad by cephyn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    For all the brilliance of the Google tech guys, it seems their accountants are pretty overwhelmed. I've heard some criticism of the way the IPO was being handled by some financial folk, but I wrote it off to the Old Guard fearing that which they did not understand. Now it seems that Google really does have problems with their bookkeepers. Its too bad. 8(

    --
    Moo.
  4. Why sell them back? by idesofmarch · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe I am missing something, but why would anyone be willing to sell their shares back at a fraction of what they would fetch on the open market?

  5. Re:Wait... by Knight+Thrasher · · Score: 4, Informative

    I believe the link should've been this.

  6. Dear Google: by NealokNYU · · Score: 5, Funny
    To our friends at Google:

    SEC
    U.S. Securities & Exchange Commission Laws

    So we know they could find the laws at least... So what happened?

  7. The real story is the media interest by Everyman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Google mentioned this snafu in their original April 29 SEC filing, and said that they would offer further details on the rescission before the IPO.

    Now they have, and the media plays it like it's some sort of scoop.

    The real story here is not that Google screwed up (that happens regularly), but that the Google teflon is wearing thin in the media.

    You can only play reporters as puppets for a few years, and then they get tired of your spin and start biting back. There will be a lot more negative press in the coming months.

  8. Google's SEC fililng by ecklesweb · · Score: 5, Informative

    No that anyone RTFA, much less supplemental information, but for historical purposes here's a link to the specific document in the Google SEC filing that talks about the "recission offer":

    Form S-1 Registration Statement

    This section in particular is a good summary of what they did.

  9. Not the Only Problem Google's Having by Rob+Carr · · Score: 4, Informative

    Google is going to be spending a lot of money on lawyers, it would seem. This isn't the only problem they're facing.

    --
    This sig seemed like a good idea at the time....
  10. Re:Mod Parent up... by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 4, Funny

    There are thousands of people with 4 digit uids.

  11. The current scuttlebutt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There's an unsubstantiated but strong and almost-believable rumor floating around the valley right now that Google doesn't really want to do that well in their IPO because they'll lose a lot of their key employees who are fully vested.

    Also, this is beginning to sound eerily like AltaVista. All they need now is a competitor with better technology and that's pretty much it for them.

  12. Re:Who's counting? by eln · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Seems likely to me that a fairly substantial number of these "illegal" shareholders will not take the deal offered by Google, and elect to sue instead. The potential money damages Google will have to pay, as well as any potential SEC action, has the potential to significantly impact Google's market valuation.

    Since, in theory, the IPO price was set at auction by people who looked at, among other things, the number of outstanding shares and the overall valuation of the company, this would seem to indicate that the price decided upon is invalid, as the data it's based on is invalid.

    If the stock was overvalued before, it's much more overvalued now that it's revealed that Google has significantly more potential liabilities outstanding than were previously reported. This is a big black eye for Google in the markets, and it's highly likely anyone buying Google at the IPO price will lose their shirt on the deal.

  13. Re:Mod Parent up... by ximenes · · Score: 4, Funny

    I find that all I post about in the last 3-4 years is my UID.

  14. Only if they accept the rescission offer by Mr.+Sane · · Score: 5, Informative

    To put it simply: When a company has a unregistered private share offering to non-qualified investors (essentially non-high net worth, or "unsophisticated investors") they are required to get a waiver from the "unsophisticated investor" that they are willing to participate in the risk of investing in an unregistered offering.

    The risk is that there are not the same corporate disclosure requirements for unregistered offerings as there are for registered offerings.

    In the event that the company wants to go public at a later date, they usually provide rescission offers to these investors, which allow them to cash before the risky public offering.

    Most rescission offers are optional, and in the event that the investor declines they will sign an additional waiver that says they are going along for the ride.

  15. Isn't an overvalued IPO "evil"? by astrashe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've always loved google, but this sort of bugs me.

    I think I can predict the flames -- the market decides what the value is, I don't know that the stock will go down any better than the investors know the stock will go up, the google people deserve to get rich, and all of that.

    But I remember the dot com days (as do most people here, I'm sure). I think that we're going to see a massive transfer of wealth between unsophisticated small investors who are doing more speculating than investing, and the sharpies running this IPO.

    It seems to me that the geek community has never come to terms with exactly what happened in the dot com days, and how dishonest and damaging a lot of the financial shenanigans were. A lot of guys who were ring leaders -- guys like Jeff "profits don't matter" Bezos -- are still respected and admired.

    You can say a lot of bad things about MS, and I'd probably agree with most of them. But they never screwed their investors the way that almost every open source IPO did. That's always something that's left out when people talk about the software morality play here.

    I don't see why people see this as a good thing for the tech industry. The only way IPOs will be good, over the long run, is if the investors make good returns. With this valuation that's impossible. People are going to get screwed, just like the old days, and it will just revive the bitter taste in everyone's mouth, and make the next IPO that much harder.

  16. Re:Mod Parent up... by maugt · · Score: 4, Informative

    Yeah. I never get modded up. Just because I was here before there was even a registration system shouldn't count for anything. Its like those people who used to think they were cool because they had really low ICQ numbers.

    Now, if only the comments system was easier to read and have discussions on, I'd probably post more, but then, no one cares what I say anyway.

  17. Recission Offers; Wall Street's Hatred of Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The way recission offers work is: (i) company has done something technically wrong in offering securities, (ii) company offers to remedy this by buying back shares at or above selling price and (iii) persons who refuse buy out offer are legally deemed to waive their right to sue based on the original wrong. Since the recission offer price, though above the original offer price, is below the proposed IPO price, no one will accept. Therefore, this should result is basically no loss to Google.

    Google, because it is one of the few big post dot-bomb tech IPOs, was able to compel Wall Street into accepting an auction process that will net the underwriters about 2% of the offering proceeds, versus the almost universal 6 to 7%. Because of this, Wall Street hates Google and investment banks have been feeding the media a constant stream of FUD against the Google offering (which the media, getting advertizing dollars from investment banks, is eager to accept).

    Bottom line: (i) Recission offer no threat to Google. (ii) Don't look for the business media to say anything good about the Google offering.

  18. ooooold news by odin53 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I guess this article just shows that no one reads these SEC filings -- the rescission offer was disclosed in the very first S-1 filed at the end of April. (direct link to the original rescission offer disclosure) And it's not like it was buried. It has its own entry in the table of contents.

    I think that most financial people who are thinking of buying shares have probably seen this, if they've been following the filings. Remember that there have already been 3 amendments to the registration statement, plus the S-1 to the rescission offer, totaling 5 different documents that disclose it. Also, the financial statements disclose it, so add the Form 10 that Google has filed and the 3 amendments to it, for a grand total of 9 different filings over the past 3 months that all mention it.

    These people probably don't think it's a big deal, because of the relatively small liability (see Section 12 of the Securities Act of 1933), and probably no one will exercise the rescission right anyway (they'd be crazy to do that before the IPO). More importantly, this kind of stuff happens more often than you might think; some companies will just take the risk of this liability and not do a rescission.

    Also, don't confuse section 12 liability (which is essentially about selling shares in unregistered/non-exempt transactions) with rule 10b-5 liability, which is what you hear about all the time (all those class actions are usually rule 10b-5 actions). 10b-5 is about fraud.