Slashdot Mirror
Licensing Computer Techs As TV Repairmen
An anonymous reader writes "According to a story in yesterday's New Orleans paper, the Louisiana Radio and Television Technicians Board has sent letters to computer techs demanding fees to license them as radio and TV repairmen. Apparently, as computers drive more home theater applications, the board is trying to classify them as 'playback and recording device equipment,' which the law gives the board power to regulate. It looks more like a money grab, though, since no test is required, just $55 and an affidavit." It seems to me the better question is not whether computers can be defined in many circumstances as playback and recording equipment (hard to get around), but whether this kind of forced classification makes sense in the first place. Disingenuous quote of the day: "We're not trying to swing our arm around a whole bunch of people to get new revenue."
Y'all send in them checks, ya hear?
Yours Truly,
The Fatty McTax.
"Awright, it's out there on the grass, yew juss fixit and then back away from it, slow like."
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Computer techs hit with fee for license
But it's coming from radio, TV industry
Wednesday, August 04, 2004
By Stewart Yerton
Business writer
For the past five years, Jarrod Broussard has run a small computer consulting company, helping business and residential customers deal with a host of problems: from designing Web sites and hosting them, to setting up networks, to troubleshooting software problems and eliminating the viruses that often plague today's computers.
To Broussard, such work made him a computer technician, plain and simple. But according to a notice sent to Broussard last week from the Louisiana Radio and Television Technicians Board, state regulators have a different view of Broussard and others like him.
Advertisement
According to a letter from the regulators, Broussard actually falls under the same regulatory umbrella as a TV repairman.
As home computers come to the fore as entertainment devices, powering home theaters, audio systems and the like, the Radio and Television Technicians Board is seeking to license computer technicians much the way it has licensed television and radio repair workers since the 1950s.
To that end, the board last week informed Broussard that he would have to send the board $55 and an affidavit from an employer, customer or computer school attesting that he was a computer consultant. In exchange, Broussard would receive his license.
Mark Lewis, president of the Louisiana Technology Council, a trade association based in New Orleans, said he finds the situation absurd.
"They're taking a law passed when computers weren't even around and applying it to computers," Lewis said. "The whole thing is mind-boggling to me -- how they could come up with something like this?"
According to the letter sent to Broussard, the rationale is straightforward. Louisiana consumer protection laws give the board the power to license people who repair televisions, radios and "playback and recording device equipment" used in the home, the letter said. "Many home computers today, provide for television reception and recording, and all provide audio/visual playback and recording capabilities," the letter continued.
"Therefore," the letter said, "the Board has elected to license computer technicians."
The requirement would apply to people "engaged in the repair, maintenance, consultation, or training of computer equipment, including hardware, peripherals, and networks used in the home," the letter said. Commercial computer technicians are not subject to the new requirement, although individuals who provide both commercial and residential services have to comply.
Computer technicians already in the business would be grandfathered into the system and not required to take a test proving competency to obtain a license, the letter said. Payment of $55 to the board and the affidavit would be sufficient.
Stanley Brohn, secretary of the Radio and Television Technicians Board, said the intent and scope of the licensing requirement has been misunderstood. The licensing requirement, Brohn said, is designed to protect consumers who have hired computer technicians to install or repair new entertainment systems that employ computers.
For example, Brohn said, some high definition television monitors are designed to be driven by computers, and in such instances, the work should be done by a certified television and radio technician to ensure that the expensive equipment is not damaged, Brohn said.
"We're not going after computer technicians," he said. "The only thing we're doing is giving an opportunity for computer technicians to get into the radio and television side of the business."
Brohn said the letter sent to Broussard and others was misleading in stating that the license requirement would apply to a broad range of computer technicians and consultants, and not simply those wanting to set up home entertainment systems.
Brohn confirmed that he signed the letter but said
Louisiana is also attempting to force lawyers to license themselves as garbage collectors. Surprisingly, the Louisiana Bar Association, when asked for comment, indicated that they agreed with the decision.
and most TV repairmen can't fix computers.
It's obviously a way to try to grap money.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Technically, in California you have to be a licensed appliance and electronics repair person already. It's just not enforced (that wouldn't go over well in San Jose). I wish I had time to find a better link to source, but here's a link.
US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
Since the radio is just a component of the car, the car as a whole could be considered a playback device. Are they sending this extortion attempt to car mechanics? No? Funny that...
---- El diablo esta en mis pantalones! Mire, mire!
It works both ways, A+ for the TV guy and TV license for computer tech.
Nothing against tv repair men, it is a very technical skill in many respects, but i didnt pay $28,000 for 4 years of school to be registered as a tv repair man.
It follows a disturbing pattern of "licensing for no purpose" that has been firmly established as standard operating procedure in this country for decades. We license driving, marriage, fishing, hunting, and now WORKING? What's next? An oxygen license? I hope plenty of IT workers stand up and say "hell no" in a massive act of civil disobedience. For that matter, let the TV and radio guys do it too!
There is a difference between "insightful" and "inciteful" other than spelling.
I'd think there'd be a big difference between someone licensed to repair computers, and someone who repaired computers who was licensed to repair television sets.
you are overlooking the fact you won't standout when it reaches a critical mass. as its $55 everyone will get one as without one you will standout badly. this is when it just becomes a money grabbing scheme
Whats next automechanics having to get licenses as ferriers to change tires?
"That is the problem with a grandfather clause," he said. "There is nothing that we can do about that."
Sure there is, don't license computer technicians!
-- johntracy.com, because everybody else is wrong.
It would make one stand out amongst competition.
That seems like a good deal to me.
In that case, send me $75, and you can be a preferred licenced computer repairperson
This is same sort of stupid stuff that Alabama pulls. They charge a licensing fee to sell calculators in the state. This is from a law made in the 1800's when cash registers were introduced. I think politicians thought "if it takes money, we should get some of it." They threw "them thar' cal-u-lating machines" in since they can be used to calculate money.
So when is the Hawkeye movie coming out?
According the the RIAA, MPAA, the NFL, and several other entertainment groups, playing broadcasted or distributed entertainment on a computer is against the law....
...So how can a local government body issue people a license to repair lawbreaking equipment?
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, START
"It would make one stand out amongst competition."
No it wouldn't because all the competition will also have to have paid $55. It does nothing but gouge people for $55.
Of course, the idea of licensing TV repairmen is neither more nor less insane than the idea of calling computer repairmen TV repairmen. All it accomplishes is to restrict the supply and drive up the prices, hurting the very public it was ``supposed to protect''.
See what I've been reading.
i think it's a great idea, given proper expansion. for instance, i'd be willing to pay $100 if i could call myself a doctor and get paid like one. or for $75 you could call yourself a pilot and get to fly around. of course, becoming a lawyer would be free, just as encouragement.
The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.
-Oscar Wilde
Go run for office and fix it already!
Anyway, I *like* that there is a driving license. I wish it were *more* difficult.
Marriage... that one is less useful now than it might have been 100 years ago. And with common law marriages, quite useless, though lots of states don't recognize common law marriage.
Fishing and hunting I'll agree too as I don't think we should have unlicensed folk with guns shooting at things. At the least, it limits them.
Essentially licensing is a force to limit, and in certain things I think that's good.
GPL Deconstructed
Send me $65 and I'll provide a document which let's you say you're better licensed than a Lousiana-licensed TV repairman to work on computers. It'll be about as valid and the money will be about as well spent.
The tv repair man producing his tools and getting it from the lady of the house and 2 of her most intimate friends was a fantasy but a geek connecting his laptop to the tv and getting the same treatment is just so not going to happen.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
Who is John Galt?
There is no nonsense so errant that it cannot be made the creed of the vast majority by adequate governmental action.
Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)
For every action there is an equal and opposite government program.
Bob Wells
Government is too big and too important to be left to the politicians.
Chester Bowles (1901 - 1986)
After two years in Washington, I often long for the realism and sincerity of Hollywood.
Fred Thompson, Speech before the Commonwealth Club of California
You know what's interesting about Washington? It's the kind of place where second-guessing has become second nature.
George W. Bush, Speech on May 17, 2002
Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.
H. L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
I believe that all government is evil, and that trying to improve it is largely a waste of time.
H. L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
The government consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government; they have only a talent for getting and holding office.
H. L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Whenever you have an efficient government you have a dictatorship.
Harry S Truman (1884 - 1972), Lecture at Columbia University, 28 Apr. 1959
You will find that the State is the kind of organization which, though it does big things badly, does small things badly, too.
John Kenneth Galbraith (1908 - )
The mystery of government is not how Washington works but how to make it stop.
P. J. O'Rourke (1947 - )
Sure there are dishonest men in local government. But there are dishonest men in national government too.
Richard M. Nixon (1913 - 1994)
So they [the Government] go on in strange paradox, decided only to be undecided, resolved to be irresolute, adamant for drift, solid for fluidity, all-powerful to be impotent.
Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965), Hansard, November 12, 1936
Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business.
Tom Robbins (1936 - )
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
Voltaire (1694 - 1778)
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.
Will Rogers (1879 - 1935), Saturday Review, Aug. 25, 1962
There's no trick to being a humorist when you have the whole government working for you.
Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)
The marvel of all history is the patience with which men and women submit to burdens unnecessarily laid upon them by their governments.
William H. Borah
"I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
Like this isn't what will happen anyway.
I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
During either the DeCSS suit, the DMCA hearings, or a RIAA/MPAA suit (I can't remember which), the court specifically ruled that computers were not playback and recording devices and thus did not fall into the realm of protected devices for fair use copying.
Either computers are not such devices as the court ruling indicated, and thus this money grab is illegal, or computers are such devices and thus protected by fair use copying exemptions to the chagrin of the RIAA/MPAA.
For those of you,
Who are staring down the double barreled outsourcing monster you might want to consider a talent for fixing TVs as a godsend.
I mean, who in their right mind is gonna ship a 60 inch plasma TV to india for repair? Gotta be done locally, get the drift....
Plus, from everything I've ever seen those TV repair guys make some pretty good dough while getting to play with all kinds of electronic gadgetry.
Caution: Contents under pressure
http://www.2theadvocate.com/stories/071504/opi_edi 2001.shtml
I have always heard rumors of Marijuana Tax Stamps and the like, so I did a little googling. Here's a random sample from Kansas:
There is other text http://www.ksrevenue.org/faqs-abcdrugtax.htm for your amusement.How does the Slashdot Effect happen given that no slashdotters ever RTFA?
What specific actions constitute a "repair"?
Backing up a hard drive?
Swapping one hard drive for another?
Swapping one hard drive for another because the first had failed?
Re-installing Windows?
Replacing Windows with Linux?
Modifying the Windows registry?
Unplugging one mouse and plugging in another?
Brushing dirt from the lens of a (optical) mouse?
Moving files around?
There are so many ways that a computer can "break" that don't require getting out your soldering iron... I'd think it'd be difficult to differentiate between someone who "repairs" computers and someone who "supports" computers.
Perhaps I've been lucky (knock on wood) but TVs seem to last a long time with little maintenance. I figure when a TV finally does bite the dust, its served its lifetime well and about time to buy a new one anyway. People aren't calling repairmen to fix knob-controlled tv's embededded into wood frames are they? (wish they had kept the form design around though)
$cat
just my anecdotal, but I've been to two differnt TV repair shops in the past two years,once for a monitor repair (not worth it cost wise but possible) and once for a vcr part (unobtanium) both places had stacks of computers and monitors in them, and the guys there did all manner of repairs, in fact, more repairs on computers (real repairs, not just component swapping) than the average whitebox shop I have been in. I found both the guys to be quite hip and knowledgeable computer users and techs. They got into the biz because they loved gadgets and had the attitude and aptitude for it, so it's a simple transition to working on boxes. One came from a dotmilgov tech background, the other from a hobbyist to a civvie tech school background.
FWIW
That's what A+, CNE, etc are for. Pay money, pass a test that actually represents your level of expertise in the field, and get a time-limited certification showing competance. What we have here though is just an obvious money grab.
Though that being said, I seriously doubt any more than 2% of the customers that come into our shop think to look for (or ask about) our technicians' certifications. Though I seriously wonder if any of the remaining 98% would know the difference between a "I paid $200 and passed a test any computer user could pass" cert and a "this took me three attempts at $150 each and six weeks of study to pass" cert.
I'd also be willing to bet 50% of the techs working at computer service shops have zero certifications. The only reason I have certs is because we can't order service parts from the manufacturers without them.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Recectly, the state of Minnesota decided that only Certified Electricians can legally install low voltage electrical cable, which includes network and alarm system wiring. Here's http://www.mwpersons.com/articles/3-12-01-licensin g.htmlone man's story with a link to the relevant code. Gotta make sure those network cables don't electrocute anybody.
I'm already running for office (3rd time), and I'm the county chair of a political party (not the Republicrats). And now to address your points...
Driver's licenses do not do anything to ensure safe driving. Not wanting to get into an accident ensures safe driving. Not wanting to get cited or hauled to jail ensures safe driving. How does paying a couple of dollars every few years (with no testing) ensure that I drive safer? It doesn't. I would personally feel safer if the truly unsafe drivers (speeding to excess, reckless driving, DUI, etc.) were thrown in jail for extended periods. Maybe it would discourage the bad behaviours.
Marriage licenses were originally meant to prevent inter-racial marriages. I prefer the system of common law marriage as a license is a permit to do something that would otherwise be illegal. When did normal marriage become illegal? I support keeping them around for people that want to quickly bypass waiting periods and such.
Fishing and hunting licenses don't make a dime's worth of difference in population control. It just ends up amounting to another case of "papers, please". Why the heck do most states require an SSN for one of those? It's just another control for the sake of control.
You're wrong on what a license is. See above: a license is a permit to do something that would otherwise be illegal. I'm very suspicious of any attempt to make something illegal and replace its legality with a licensing system.
There is a difference between "insightful" and "inciteful" other than spelling.
So American girls can go around and say: I'm a licensed bride? Would a hooker be an 'unlicensed bride?'
Oh well, what the hell...
For the low LOW price of 55 bucks I can pad my resume with "Radio and TV Repairman".
I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
" Let us not forget that an improperly wired CRT will emit X Rays."
According to this link:
http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/consumer/TVRad.html
There's never been a case where this has happened. Is this because its not possible to do, or because all TV repairmen are licensed and all exercise extreme caution when wiring CRTs?
Incidentally, do you know anyone who has ever rewired a CRT? When is a re-wiring advisable? Is it an annual thing, or just when the wires get old?
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Like take car audio. Many (most even) manufacturers won't warentee their equipment unless it's "professionally installed". The reason is because there exists the good likelyhood of fuckup if some dumb teenager just wires it up themselves (it's much easier to fuck up car audio than home audio). So just what is a professional? Well it's someone that is a Mobile Electronics Certified Professional, MECP. It's a simple written test akin to the A+ for computers. It's not proof you are a master with electronics, but at least it means you should know which wire is positive and how to ground a system.
So, if it was something along these lines, that you had to be A+ certified, or have some computer certification, I could see the point, though not necessiarly support it. In that case the point would be to ensure minimal competence, that someone could know you were state licensed, meaning you'd apssed a standard test and so weren't just a complete liar that knows nothing of computers.
That is not the case. All you do is send them $55. Oh give me a break, that probes nothing other than that you have (had) $55. It's like those diploma mills on the Internet. Sure it says PhD, but since all you did was give them money for it, it holds no actual meaning or value.
Being in New Orleans, I got wind of this about a week ago and was amused - there's a grass roots effort to oppose this bone-headed idea. Unfortunately, this is a prime example of how chaotic and irrational the government down here is. Everything you've heard is basically true.
We spawn politicians that have the dubious distinction of removing park benches as a means to stop homeless people, school board members that spend more money on lawsuits than they do schools, a monopoly daily newspaper that all throughout 1999 referred to the year 2000 as "the millennium" with a small blurb that said, "some purists believe the millennium begins in 2001", neo-nazi state representatives, indicted governors, etc. The former governor repealed the mandatory helmet law for motorcyclists... I could go on and on... This is one messed up area... This latest fiasco is more of the same.
Louisiana is a different place than the rest of the country. First off, the state uses Napoleanic Code (which is derived from Roman Law) while the rest of the nation is using English Common Law. Every governmental position in the state is elected, NONE are appointed.
Secondly, the state has continously put political machines into office. Fmr. Gov. Edwin Edwards (3-term governor) is currently serving a prison sentence in Dallas because of a variety of charges, basically stemming from taking bribes from casinos. Then back in the day, we had Huey Long, followed by his brother Earl Long. Huey even had a box where he kept all the kickbacks from state businesses and employees.
Hell, to become a notary public in Louisiana, you've got to get approval from the Governor!
The state has some of the most corrupt, crooked, and just plain old screwed up politics in the nation. Every profession you can think of has to be licensed - and especially now, because the state is running low on cash (thank you Kathleen Blanco), taxes are extremely high.
Most businesses just stay out of Louisiana since the cost of doing business there, unless you know somebody, is extreme. Its good-ole-boy politics at its finest.
One of the problems I've seen in the consumer end of the computer industry is that practically anyone can call themselves a "computer technician" and fix the things. I've seen people ripped off horribly. Case in point, my wife has a friend who was told "Once there's a virus on your hard disk, it's there forever - for $200 we'll provide a new one, install all your software on it, and safely dispose of the old one". No, that's not the rip-off because I fixed the thing for her instead - the initial purchase of the system and all its pirate software was in this instance, but I've got a dozen similar tales dating back fifteen years. Registration doesn't indicate competence, but it does mean that they've needed to provide a fee and adequate identification to the state before setting out their shingle. It makes it that much more likely that in the event of a problem you can track them down. It makes it a little less likely for the more overt shonks to set up shop for a month or two then move. It's annoying for the legitimate businesses, but might under some circumstances help keep the less desirable out. Of course, then we have the ongoing problem of who is deemed "undesirable", and with computers being able to be viewed as playback or encryption devices we have a whole other can of worms.
So, if you work for the state or local government and do computer support, go into work tomorrow and announce you've applied for the license, but haven't received it yet. Sorry, Senator/Judge/Mayor/Officical who decided you need a license, but I can't reset your password because I don't have a license. You'll just have to wait a few weeks until I receive it.
"I opened it up, fixed it and have been using it for nearly 5 years. Not a bad lifespan for a free piece of hardware."
Only in the computing industry... I have some of my dad's powertools (10 years old), drive my grandmother's car (39 years old), got some of my great granddad's hand tools (70? years old). The computing model really annoys me, this is just not sustainable, the world is drowning under a sea of thrown out crap. Why can't we build stuff to last a bit longer? or more significantly design systems that can work with older kit... Me, sick of software bloat. Even new distros of linux assume 2Gb hard drives and 128Mb Ram minimum. All my mum wants to do is email, and word process. I'm sure I managed this ten years ago. Surely must be achievable without hardcore linux geekhacking skills. We realy should try to develop a more long term design philosophy. I've got a three year old mobile phone, Ericsson, shockproofed, gortex lined, you can drop it in a pond and fish it out and use it, no problem. They don't make them any more. My guess is - because people like me buy them and don't need to buy another one six months later. We really need a big paradigm shift...(imho)
I would imagine that TV repairmen were originally regulated because they had to know how to safely work on open TV cabinets containing dangerous high voltages, operate test equipment on those high voltage circuits, and install suitable replacement parts that wouldn't catch on fire.
So you're saying that the government should require anyone who cracks open a TV set to have a license? No more fix-it-at-home episodes? Billy Bob can't drink a six-pack, get out the screwdriver and augment his gymnastics skills with the flyback transformer?
Licenses are required to protect consumers from ripoff artists. Otherwise, you'd have corner shops with con artists "fixing" TVs.
Back in the old days of tube TVs, it was very easy to take a damaged TV from a naive client, declare it a total loss by "demonstrating" how badly the TV was broken, and offer to buy it for $25 as a "parts" chassis.
Then, put all the tubes back in, fix the original minor problem for $10, tune it up a little and sell it for $200 to someone else. Then wait for the next moron to walk through the door and attempt to swindle them too! A state agency with a licensing plan has a complaint system. Several complaints, and an inspector stops in, maybe to suspend the license.
Back in the 60's and 70's, you could find tube testers at the hardware and grocery stores. Anyone with a screwdriver and some patience could at least get their TV up and running by bringing in dead tubes, checking them in the tube tester, and replacing them. Tuning was a bit more tricky, but it was possible if you learned a few tricks.
Editorial Mode: ON
PCs are simply a pain-in-the-ass. After chasing hardware and software problems for other people for the past 15+ years, I tell you, it's not worth $75 an hour to do it. The calls never stop, and most people generally believe that each incident is directly related to the first service call. They feel that they should only have to pay $75 once, and that everything after that is free. If you enjoy peace and quiet, strict enforcement of the $75/hour fee is required. If you perform one favor, somehow, everyone hears about it and you've got dozens of others who expect the same treatment. It's not worth it.
The only thing worse than fixing PCs is fixing someone else's stovepipe network!
-- No sig for you!
While it is true they require you to have the tax stamps, they haven't actually sold the tax stamps in a whole lot of years.
Since they never actually issue the stamps, nobody can ever be in compliance with the law. Therefore, they effectively make it illegal since they don't give you a (real) route to make it legal.
Go ahead, try and get yourself some of those stamps.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.