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Ford Launches First American Hybrid
Ford has finally rolled out their Escape hybrid SUV. Ford's website has more information. Ford will use Toyota's first-generation hybrid technology in the SUV (the 2004 Prius is Toyota's second generation technology). Best of all, the Escape is street-legal in residential areas. Update: 08/06 22:31 GMT by M : A reader points out that GM will be selling a hybrid pickup soon, but it isn't available for sale to the public yet, so Ford is still the first.
I believe this is the first:
2005 Chevy Silverado HybridBase MSRP is $19,855, for manual transmission. Since no one in the US drives manual (except me it seems), I suspect $21,000 to start for most people.
General Motors already had a hybrid truck available in the 2004 fleet division, and is releasing it in the public this year, as well. Or you can get a used 2004, but they are rare. Interestingly, the V8 Silverado uses it's motor and battery for idling and coasting, never to propel, so it works out as a trade off between the "fuller" hybrids, with about a 16% milage boost.
Looks good for your age..
About 30 posts and no one has mentioned the Slate article. That had to be the funniest thing I've read in a while.
To summarize, residential neighborhoods in California (many places actually, but the author was in California) have inadvertently forbidden large SUV's from driving down thier roads because the SUV exceeds the gross weight limit (6000lbs) that defines a truck.
Now I'm just waiting for a politician with the conjones to enforce this law.
I'll be waiting a very, very, very long time...
Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
I've read elsewhere that it's in the 35mpg highway ballpark. here is an article stating they got anywhere from 39 to 60.
None of the articles, or the Escape website itself, report the actual mileage of the hybrid SUV. Their Fuel Cost Savings Calculator touts mileage that will "exceed 35MPG", which turns out to be 36MPG. Any comparison to a user's current mileage over 35MPG reports that relative costs compare "quite favorably", even when the Escape has to beat 72MPG or more (double the Escape's mileage, for the arithmetic impaired). Trying current several mileages around 30MPG reports a consistent $2778:y for 100,000mi @$1.00:gallon in the Escape, which is 36MPG. Their mileage figures are "preliminary estimates of EPA certification", so the actual number is "YMMV".
That mileage number is the only important number. Hybrids use electric regeneration from the same gasoline tank as the internal combustion engine, so they are not in any way "alternative fuel" vehicles, any more than is the gas guzzling SUV in the next lane. But that guzzler probably gets about 15MPG, so these hybrids are certainly laudable. At $27K, driving 252,000 miles saves enough gas money to pay for the car. Which is about 20 times around the Aelutian Islands / Tierra Del Feugo circuit. Finally a use for that "Intelligent 4WD" SUV.
--
make install -not war
Most Crown Vitorias used by taxis and police are hybrids... that is, natural gas conversions. They are capable of running on gasoline and cleaner natural gas. It would be nice to see gas-electric hybrids though.
?Who controls the past now, controls the future.
Who controls the present now controls the past.?
Hybrids are very efficient in heavy stop and go traffic, but not much better than a regular car on long freeway trips. A diesel would be better for that. The VW TDI gets over 40MPG freeway. The extra power from the electric motor is good for accelerating from stop lights, but if you're climbing a long highway mountain pass, the battery never has a chance to recharge and you're left with just the power from a somewhat undersized gas engine.
You couldn't just wire up a regular starter motor to a bigger battery. They're made to be very powerful for their size, but they'll overheat and wear out if run for long periods.
Honestly, I just don't get the hype over hybrids. A Jetta turbo diesel gets comparable mileage, is a larger, more comfortable, more powerful car, and presents no extraordinary risk to emergency services trying to free you in an accident.
If you're worried about emissions, run it on biodiesel. Now you've closed the carbon loop, and are running on a 100% renewable resource. Even hybrids can't make that claim.
In comparison, hybrids just seem to me like a solution in search of a problem.
The starter motor is just too small, and definitely not designed for continuous operation. If you re-engineered it, so the motor could handle continuous operation, and you put in a bigger battery, then you'd be halfway to hybrid already. In which case you'd go all the way, because the half-breed would be overkill for starting, but not big enough to make a real dent in fuel usage.
The real loss in fuel isn't in standing (when you are at idle and under 1000 rpm) it's when you are accelerating from all the 'go' of stop and go. When you come out of a stop light you are at more throttle than you are going 50 mph, but you are accelerating through the 0-20 mph range and upwards of 2000-3000 rpm. So you are using a bunch of gas, but you aren't going anywhere. You're just using the gas to give the car kinetic energy, which you then dump into the brakes when you need to stop. That's where the hybrid really save fuel - on recovering braking energy. It also allows the engine to operate in its optimal range most of the time, instead of revving up at every stop light.
re point 3, we are nearly talking guns. With the increase in SUVs came a huge increase, nearly a doubling, of the death rate from traffic accidents, in 2 years. That does not included maming. And unlike guns, there is usually huge equipment damage included.
This isn't a disingenuous argument either. It's common sense. What do you expect when you increase vehicle size (both in footprint and reduced views by those around it) yet roadways change and drivers feel they are just driving a big, elevated car? When you increase the mass, you increase the power of the impact on the receiving body. I'd much rather be rear ended by a Ford Taurus than a Ford Expedition any day. Apparently, you don't think this is valid talk.
I've been threatened with a gun twice in my life. I've been threatened in the first 5 miles of my morning commute by SUV and dump truck drivers *every day*. I also live at the corner of an intersection that gets heavy traffic. Car versus car acccidents, police show up, people pull to the side of the road. Last 7 years, SUV versus car, fire and ambulance show, intersection is shut down and detours set up with SUVs.
There is no argument. This is due to an escalation in vehicle size like people picking up the armaments. Before, a Ford Explorer was considered too big, big enough to protect your family. Now, people want at least a Lincoln Navigator.
There's also the idea of "delivery." Didn't more things used to just get delivered than they are today? now we have this model where we buy large things from warehouses and are assumed to truck them home ourselves.
It turns out that both the Prius and Ford Escape hybrid transaxles (the heart and soul of the car) are made by the same company, Aisin.
So, Ford actually will benefit from the years of Prius experience, to some extent.
Ford also cross-licensed the Toyota hybrid patents.
[disclaimer: I just bought two Priuses -- I love the car!]
thad
I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
There's a commercial for a large supplier airing locally here in the Detroit area whose mantra is, "I'm a customer, too." This really ought to be Ford's tagline.
I work for Ford. I'm an engineer there. I'm proud to be there. And this is a fine achievement (among others!). Here in Michigan, the auto industry is everything -- you grow up indoctrinated to it. My first two cars were pieces of crap -- Fords. This being the mid 80's. My next two cars were Hondas. I still have NO complaints about any automobile that Honda produces. For their price range, they were the best cars I've ever owned.
But Ford -- as well as the other major "American" manufacturer GM -- has come a long way in quality and innovation. The Escape hybrid is evidence of innovation. The awards the Focus (a "low end, you get what you pay for type of car") has received indicates our quality has improved to the world class level.
I'm going to get modded overrated -- so be it. But this article is the perfect opportunity to express the PRIDE that I finally have in an American automobile company. Yeah, my post could be regarded as a commercial, but remember, "I'm a customer, too."
--Jim (me)
The GM Truck is what they are calling a "parallel" hybrid. It is *NOT* used to propell the vehicle.
r id.htm To wit: ....This is the key to understanding how the "parallel" hybrid system...
See here: http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/05gmhyb
But the GM trucks may not qualify as true hybrids in the minds of some observers, as their electric motors don't actually drive the wheels.
Unlike some other hybrids on the North American market, the GM pickup truck hybrid system doesn't use a supplementary motor to propel the vehicle. It does, however, use an electric motor to start the vehicle and generate electricity that powers accessories....The Sierra/Silverado hybrid system is used specifically to reduce the load on the standard 295-horsepower, 5.3-litre Vortec V8 engine (read that as "idiot sized"), ensuring that it's only burning fuel when required to drive the truck.
In short, GMs truck isnt hybrid at all.
As for the Escape, Ive driven it -- it is UNBELIEVABLE. Ive ordered mine already. Expect it October 13th.
My dream car: A Ford Focus Z5 with a Hybrid / PZEV diesel.
I did this eval a couple of years ago when I was looking for a new car. Updating this, using published numbers (cost and gas mileage) from edmunds.com, using essentially identical cars, the 2004 Honda Civic and Civic Hybrid, and todays gas price of $1.81...the Hybrid only actually saves money after 450,000 miles. With city driving figures, it equals out at 190,000 miles.
That $4,000 price premium buys a LOT of gas.
Of course this ignores any maintenance costs, which are probably higher for the hybrid (battery replacement), and any tax breaks for the hybrid.
The Hybrid DOES save gas (always a good thing, but how much is debatable), but not necessarily money in your pocket.
We live in rural Montana, about 6000ft altitude, at the end of 3-1/2 miles of steep dirt road. The nearest city is Billings, which is 90 miles away. I chose a Jeep Grand Cherokee because it has reasonable ground clearance, a good 4WD system (Quadradrive) for the plenty of snow that we get, and it performs well on the freeway (I telecommute, but my wife goes to Billings once of twice a month). For 7 months per year we have winter tires installed and Spikes Spider chains ready to go. IMHO, the Jeep SUV is the best choice for our (admittedly unusual) situation.
:( - hit a rock, broke a 4" x 3" chunk out of the low-hanging cast aluminum sump, and dumped all its oil in about 3 seconds.
Even in the Summer, the Jeep's relatively high ground clearance and skid plates are useful - several vehicles have been badly damaged by rocks on our road. One 8-passenger van - that I happened to be driving
When the weather gets bad, I have a Unimog 406 with a large V-plow and a Schmidt VF3C snowcutter.
Look, it's trying to think - Albert Rosenfield