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NASA Boosts AI For Planetary Rovers

transcendent writes "According to Space Daily, NASA is working on increasing the ability of future rover's AI. From the article: 'It now takes the human-robot teams on two worlds several days to achieve each of many individual objectives... A robot equipped with AI, on the other hand, could make an evaluation on the spot, achieve its mission faster and explore more'. Sounds like a good idea, but the article continues, 'Today's technology can make a rover as smart as a cockroach, but the problem is it's an unproven technology'. Another article about autonomous rovers being developed by Carnegie Mellon University is here."

18 of 171 comments (clear)

  1. Is it necessary? by Edgebound · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I wonder if complex AI is really a good idea for the next generation of planetary rovers. The current rovers Spirit and Opportunity have gone way beyond completing their missions. I would have thought a better option would be to build from this base and improve the rovers by doing things like adding more scientific instruments, and increasing their lifespans (to possibly years).

    1. Re:Is it necessary? by jarda · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think they're talking about completely autonomous robot. They just want it to do more work during its lifespan, since it won't have to wait for confirmation of each single step from Earth. Current state of robotics is getting better every day, and it's not in any way expensive technology, so I think it's pretty smart NASA is trying research in this direction too.

      Besides, what we have now is maybe enough for Mars, but there are targets farther away, where communication lag will be bigger problem. Just thing about Jupiter moons.

      --
      "Two beers or not two beers. That's the question." -- Shakesbeer
    2. Re:Is it necessary? by Mr.+Hankey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Although adding more instruments and increasing lifespan sounds attractive, being able to do more in the same amount of time is at least as useful. The devices have already had a reasonable lifespan. The tools they are equipped with are sending back massive amounts of data. There's even the possibility that the rovers could hibernate to be used in the future when conditions become favorable for operation again. Battery technology, space on the block storage, and accumulation of dust on their solar panels are pretty much the limitations at this point.

      If the rovers could be given a set of requirements and then execute them with less human intervention, they could be sending back more images/measurements. They could be covering more ground to provide measurements from different sites. They would probably even end up with more electricity for science purposes.

      --
      GPL: Free as in will
    3. Re:Is it necessary? by gl4ss · · Score: 2, Insightful

      the point in this case would be that by having some ai in the robot it would have less downtime when it's just waiting for instructions. and basically this is something they can add for 'free'(or cheaply, since it's mainly just software).

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  2. Re:Hmm... by Madcapjack · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Maybe its just me, but the article has a lot of hyperbole and does not add anything beyond praise for AI ...

    Which is why everyone here is just making jokes.

  3. Re:Long distance by sshtome · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Uh, I sincerely hope that you are trolling!

    I don't care what software runs on the rovers embedded computers because:

    * these robots won't reproduce.

    * the poluting materials (ie rover bodies and lander) are already there.

    * current AI techniques might just about make a desicion about whether to take a photo or make a soil sample, given a preprogrammed embodyment, but will *NOT* be creating any novel, intelligent behaviours.

    I wouldn't worry about AI just yet.

    Autonomy will just cut out the 5 minute lag between action and effect on any data sent to and from mars. Think about that next time you feel like your internet connection is too slow.

  4. Re:I can see it now.... by jarda · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Well, the trick is not to rely on just one type of sensor - actually, there are pretty good sensors out there for mapping terrain directly in front of robot. And that article talks about 10 years pespective, it's not like their planning to use the technology tomorrow.

    Besides, as I mentioned in other post, as we start exploring places farther from the Earth, communication lag will start to get much bigger problem, until finally you'll either have to send humans or AI. And I bet AI, even with some risks associated. will be considerably cheaper, so it's better to plan ahead.

    --
    "Two beers or not two beers. That's the question." -- Shakesbeer
  5. Hold your horses! by ControlFreal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I do a Ph.D. in an AI-related field at the moment, and all I can say is: Don't hold your breath. While it is true that AI has made significant progress, a few remarks are in order.

    First, the "I" in AI really shouldn't be there. When people talk a diffucult decision problem (e.g. some pattern recognition problem), there comes the point where somebody will say, with a solemn voice: "So, what if we use Neural Networks?" (you can practically hear him pronounce those capitals, while he's creaming his pants at the mere thought of his new awsome intelligent system). People often assume that, because a neural network is a very simple and poor analogy of the brain, that it must have some "intelligence".

    Guess what? A neural network is a simple nonlinear function. Period. Training such a thing is nothing more than estimating its parameters by minimizing some (usually quadratic) cost criterion. When you put something in, you merely evaluate a rather simple nonlinear function. There is no intelligence involved!

    And then people say: "Yeah, but we have different things as well, such as clustering methods, radial basis function networks, Bayesian (belief) networks, support vector machines, evolutionary algorithms, etc,". They too, do nothing more than estimating parameters (of selecting representative examples) based on the statistics of the problem at hand.

    There is a good reason for the fact that "AI" researchers themselves often refer to their field as "machine learning", rather than AI. If anything, I'd call AI "AS", for Applied Statistics, because most of the methods we use are either pure of augmented statistics.

    That said, machine learning has achieved some nice things. We can do some simple decision-making, pattern recognition (e.g. face detection) and emulate some limited insect behaviour. There even are some limited commercial applications. But we should be very aware of the fact that most "spectacular" results are merely lab results. I work on face detection myself, and I can tell you that "the real world" (natural photos for me) is a bitch as far as applying methods is concerned.

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    1. Re:Hold your horses! by meringuoid · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Guess what? A neural network is a simple nonlinear function. Period. Training such a thing is nothing more than estimating its parameters by minimizing some (usually quadratic) cost criterion. When you put something in, you merely evaluate a rather simple nonlinear function. There is no intelligence involved!

      Pre-Sentient Algorithms:

      Begin with a function of arbitrary complexity. Feed it values, "sense data". Then, take your result, square it, and feed it back into your original function, adding a new set of sense data. Continue to feed your results back into the original function ad infinitum. What do you have? The fundamental principle of human consciousness.

      -- Academician Prokhor Zakharov,
      "The Feedback Principle"

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    2. Re:Hold your horses! by devonbowen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      NNs are just a way of dividing a feature space. The real "intelligence" in NNs is in designing the feature space in the first place. That's where all the work and creativity is and that's all done by human beings. Until that's automated, I, too, will continue to consider NNs just a simple nonlinear function.

      Devon

    3. Re:Hold your horses! by Louis+Savain · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What you fail to realize is that the NN used in AI (aka. ANN) are highly unlikely to have more than a shallow resemblence to the NN in real organic brains.

      I you read my stuff, you will see that I am acutely aware of the sorry state of ANN research. In fact, I believe that traditional ANNs are a joke. The same goes for almost everything that ever came out of GOFAI. The good stuff is what's happening in the spiking neural networks (SNN) field within computational neuroscience. SNNs are much more biologically plausible. They are the future of AI.

      You would think the different variations of the 'Free Lunch Theorem' should have caused people to catch on sooner

      The 'No free lunch theorem' is a complete joke, IMO. The search of human-level intelligence is precisely a search for free lunches. Otherwise, we might as well throw in the towel and go fly a kite or something. Why? Because the interconnectedness of intelligence is so astronomical as to be intractable to formal approaches. The fact that the brain consists of a number of cell assembblies, each consisting of huge number of similar neurons, is proof that there is are plenty of free lunches to go around. The 'no free lunch' mantra is a way for some people to guarantee an income from grants and other government freebies.

      The sad thing about AI is that most of the community seems to be doing situation specific regression or optimization, with no plan on how that could eventually get us closer to 'higher intelligence'.

      The reason is that the problem is too hard, especially if you approach it from a cognitive science point of view. So, people started to build limited domain programs on whcih they attached the 'AI' label. This way they can claim that what they're doing is 'AI', but the rest of us know better. It's all a bunch of glorified toys.

  6. Re:I can see it now.... by Grym · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm not really concerned with how it handles foreseeable situations (ie. holes in the ground). I have no doubt that the engineers will make it quite intelligent for normal operation.

    What I'm worried about is how well it will handle unexpected situations. For instance, what happens both a critical sensor and its backup simultaneously malfunction or if the airbag doesn't get far enough under the lander, and so on. It's these situations that matter, because if the A.I. chooses incorrectly, we could end up with a multi-billion dollar twitching piece of metal on the Martian surface.

    -Grym

  7. Re:I can see it now.... by Mr.+Hankey · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sensors failing might come with out-of-boundary values from the sensors, or at least values which change in an inconsistent manner with motor functions. Cases which cause sufficient confusion could easily be set to cause the rover to wait for assistance from mission control. There will always exist unexpected situations that could never be anticipated. Still, it's worth considering whether AI could have prevented the loss of e.g. the polar lander.

    --
    GPL: Free as in will
  8. Re:I can see it now.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well, the trick is not to rely on just one type of sensor -

    Or perhaps not to rely on just on robot. The most interesting advances in bot AI seem to be in the area of swarms of cooperative bots, you have inherent redundancy for one thing. As these things get smaller, lighter and cheaper to produce I can invisage deployment of bot 'teams' rather than single high cost units.

  9. Re:as intelligent as cockroach? by Pinkfud · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Given the evolutionary success of the cockroach, something like 600 million years I think, that's probably intelligent enough to get the job done. Seriously, the only real requirement is self-preservation. Humans can still select the target sites and evaluate what is found there. The job of the AI is simply to get the rover there without self-destructing on the way. That narrows the range of requirements quite a bit. Just don't fall off a cliff, drive into deep sand, etc. I think it's do-able.

    --
    The world is my oyster. That's why it's always in a stew.
  10. Re:I can see it now.... by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How about a fairly complex base station with 1K cheap analog robots as explorers which have only digital "brains" enough to perform basic tasks based on their series/design, report findings, and "stay alive".

    In space, there is no such thing as a cheap robot. Dumb robots in great numbers would have more mass than one reliable robot, and thus much more expensive. The cost of the robot isn't building it, it is shipping it to another planet.

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  11. Once they get smart enough... by mwood · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...I'd like to see some discussion of sending the robots out in teams, so they can rescue or repair each other.

  12. Re:I can see it now.... by a1englishman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There was an article in a recent Car and Driver, about the DARPA sponsored Grand Challenge. AI piloted vechiles had to traverse a course in the California dessert. None of the vechiles made it very far at all. As much as we'd all wish it, this kind of thing is a long way off. Here's DARPA's official site.