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NASA Boosts AI For Planetary Rovers

transcendent writes "According to Space Daily, NASA is working on increasing the ability of future rover's AI. From the article: 'It now takes the human-robot teams on two worlds several days to achieve each of many individual objectives... A robot equipped with AI, on the other hand, could make an evaluation on the spot, achieve its mission faster and explore more'. Sounds like a good idea, but the article continues, 'Today's technology can make a rover as smart as a cockroach, but the problem is it's an unproven technology'. Another article about autonomous rovers being developed by Carnegie Mellon University is here."

32 of 171 comments (clear)

  1. I can see it now.... by fatgeekuk · · Score: 5, Funny

    Radio contact broken when the rover hides under a rock...

    1. Re:I can see it now.... by nofx_3 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      While the parent was modded funny, this could be a serious issue with so-called AI. Imagine a tiny unforseen deviation between the expected result of the robots reactions, and its actual reactions to an alien environment. This could cuase the rover to do any number of unwanted things. The truth of the matter is that no matter how much the AI is tested on earth, the whole point of the rover is to explore an alien world, and in doing so we don't know exactly what the rover will find, so to let a multi-million/billon dollar rover make its own decisions on how to handle a situation could cause some serious problems. For instance image a rover missinterprets a hole in the ground as a shadow from a rock and considers it safe to drive through, you can kiss the rover goodbye. I think for now, having an actual human interpreting what the rover see's before it moves makes a lot more sense when we are dealing with such great distances and costs.
      -kaplanfx

      --
      Visualize Whirled Peas
    2. Re:I can see it now.... by jarda · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Well, the trick is not to rely on just one type of sensor - actually, there are pretty good sensors out there for mapping terrain directly in front of robot. And that article talks about 10 years pespective, it's not like their planning to use the technology tomorrow.

      Besides, as I mentioned in other post, as we start exploring places farther from the Earth, communication lag will start to get much bigger problem, until finally you'll either have to send humans or AI. And I bet AI, even with some risks associated. will be considerably cheaper, so it's better to plan ahead.

      --
      "Two beers or not two beers. That's the question." -- Shakesbeer
    3. Re:I can see it now.... by Grym · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm not really concerned with how it handles foreseeable situations (ie. holes in the ground). I have no doubt that the engineers will make it quite intelligent for normal operation.

      What I'm worried about is how well it will handle unexpected situations. For instance, what happens both a critical sensor and its backup simultaneously malfunction or if the airbag doesn't get far enough under the lander, and so on. It's these situations that matter, because if the A.I. chooses incorrectly, we could end up with a multi-billion dollar twitching piece of metal on the Martian surface.

      -Grym

    4. Re:I can see it now.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, the trick is not to rely on just one type of sensor -

      Or perhaps not to rely on just on robot. The most interesting advances in bot AI seem to be in the area of swarms of cooperative bots, you have inherent redundancy for one thing. As these things get smaller, lighter and cheaper to produce I can invisage deployment of bot 'teams' rather than single high cost units.

    5. Re:I can see it now.... by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How about a fairly complex base station with 1K cheap analog robots as explorers which have only digital "brains" enough to perform basic tasks based on their series/design, report findings, and "stay alive".

      In space, there is no such thing as a cheap robot. Dumb robots in great numbers would have more mass than one reliable robot, and thus much more expensive. The cost of the robot isn't building it, it is shipping it to another planet.

      Kjella

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  2. What it should say... by BubbaThePirate · · Score: 5, Funny

    'It now takes the human-robot teams on two worlds several days to achieve each of many individual objectives... A robot equipped with AI, on the other hand, could make an evaluation on the spot, achieve its mission faster and kill off the remaining crew members with higher efficiency.'

    --

    -- "I'm not a religious man, but if you're up there, save me Superman..."

  3. Fertility crach course by Lettuce+B.+Qrious · · Score: 3, Funny

    That's great! If they could make those rovers as fertile as cockroaches, too, we could have the entire surface of Mars covered in no time!

  4. as intelligent as cockroach? by osho_gg · · Score: 3, Funny

    Now, if only they can make it as death-resistant as cockroaches that would be something..

  5. Hmm... by manavendra · · Score: 4, Interesting
    • And they didnt think of this earlier because... ?
    • Maybe its just me, but the article has a lot of hyperbole and does not add anything beyond praise for AI ...
    --
    http://efil.blogspot.com/
    1. Re:Hmm... by Madcapjack · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Maybe its just me, but the article has a lot of hyperbole and does not add anything beyond praise for AI ...

      Which is why everyone here is just making jokes.

  6. Re:Obey by Konstantinos · · Score: 5, Funny

    1. A robot may not injure a cockroach or, through inaction allow a cockroach to come to harm.
    2. A robot must obey the orders given it by cockroaches except when such orders would conflict with the First Law.
    3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

    Scary...

  7. Cockroaches and Rovers by MMHere · · Score: 4, Funny

    So the only thing left after the next Big Bang will be Rovers? When I flip on the kitchen light, will little mechanical eyes blink and then instantly stainless steel wheels spin/clatter across the floor?

  8. Is it necessary? by Edgebound · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I wonder if complex AI is really a good idea for the next generation of planetary rovers. The current rovers Spirit and Opportunity have gone way beyond completing their missions. I would have thought a better option would be to build from this base and improve the rovers by doing things like adding more scientific instruments, and increasing their lifespans (to possibly years).

    1. Re:Is it necessary? by jarda · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think they're talking about completely autonomous robot. They just want it to do more work during its lifespan, since it won't have to wait for confirmation of each single step from Earth. Current state of robotics is getting better every day, and it's not in any way expensive technology, so I think it's pretty smart NASA is trying research in this direction too.

      Besides, what we have now is maybe enough for Mars, but there are targets farther away, where communication lag will be bigger problem. Just thing about Jupiter moons.

      --
      "Two beers or not two beers. That's the question." -- Shakesbeer
  9. "Cockroach" is a synopsis of truth by jonhuang · · Score: 4, Informative

    The more famous quotation (which I suspect is the root of the 'cockroack' descriptor) is: "Robots today have the collective knowledge and wisdom of a cockroach... a retarded cockroach... a lobotomized, retarded cockroach." -Dr. Michio Kaku

  10. AI by noselasd · · Score: 4, Informative

    People wanting to get some feel of AI, take a look at
    http://www.ai-junkie.com/ann/evolved/nnt1.html
    It's a small app that automagically learns minesweepers to
    pick up mines ;)

  11. unproven technology bad for nasa by SetupWeasel · · Score: 4, Funny

    They have trouble with proven technology like calculators.

    1 inch = 2.54 cm

  12. Re:Long distance by sshtome · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Uh, I sincerely hope that you are trolling!

    I don't care what software runs on the rovers embedded computers because:

    * these robots won't reproduce.

    * the poluting materials (ie rover bodies and lander) are already there.

    * current AI techniques might just about make a desicion about whether to take a photo or make a soil sample, given a preprogrammed embodyment, but will *NOT* be creating any novel, intelligent behaviours.

    I wouldn't worry about AI just yet.

    Autonomy will just cut out the 5 minute lag between action and effect on any data sent to and from mars. Think about that next time you feel like your internet connection is too slow.

  13. Hold your horses! by ControlFreal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I do a Ph.D. in an AI-related field at the moment, and all I can say is: Don't hold your breath. While it is true that AI has made significant progress, a few remarks are in order.

    First, the "I" in AI really shouldn't be there. When people talk a diffucult decision problem (e.g. some pattern recognition problem), there comes the point where somebody will say, with a solemn voice: "So, what if we use Neural Networks?" (you can practically hear him pronounce those capitals, while he's creaming his pants at the mere thought of his new awsome intelligent system). People often assume that, because a neural network is a very simple and poor analogy of the brain, that it must have some "intelligence".

    Guess what? A neural network is a simple nonlinear function. Period. Training such a thing is nothing more than estimating its parameters by minimizing some (usually quadratic) cost criterion. When you put something in, you merely evaluate a rather simple nonlinear function. There is no intelligence involved!

    And then people say: "Yeah, but we have different things as well, such as clustering methods, radial basis function networks, Bayesian (belief) networks, support vector machines, evolutionary algorithms, etc,". They too, do nothing more than estimating parameters (of selecting representative examples) based on the statistics of the problem at hand.

    There is a good reason for the fact that "AI" researchers themselves often refer to their field as "machine learning", rather than AI. If anything, I'd call AI "AS", for Applied Statistics, because most of the methods we use are either pure of augmented statistics.

    That said, machine learning has achieved some nice things. We can do some simple decision-making, pattern recognition (e.g. face detection) and emulate some limited insect behaviour. There even are some limited commercial applications. But we should be very aware of the fact that most "spectacular" results are merely lab results. I work on face detection myself, and I can tell you that "the real world" (natural photos for me) is a bitch as far as applying methods is concerned.

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    1. Re:Hold your horses! by meringuoid · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Guess what? A neural network is a simple nonlinear function. Period. Training such a thing is nothing more than estimating its parameters by minimizing some (usually quadratic) cost criterion. When you put something in, you merely evaluate a rather simple nonlinear function. There is no intelligence involved!

      Pre-Sentient Algorithms:

      Begin with a function of arbitrary complexity. Feed it values, "sense data". Then, take your result, square it, and feed it back into your original function, adding a new set of sense data. Continue to feed your results back into the original function ad infinitum. What do you have? The fundamental principle of human consciousness.

      -- Academician Prokhor Zakharov,
      "The Feedback Principle"

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    2. Re:Hold your horses! by aallan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I do a Ph.D. in an AI-related field at the moment...

      I also work in a related field, autonomous systems...

      First, the "I" in AI really shouldn't be there. When people talk a difficult decision problem (e.g. some pattern recognition problem), there comes the point where somebody will say, with a solemn voice: "So, what if we use Neural Networks?"

      I think there has been (was) a view that neural nets were the solution, that's obviously not the case, but they've been over used and there is a backlash in the community against them right now. Basically, they've gone out of fashion. However, they can come in very handy at times and I've solved several otherwise very complex problems by using them, that would have otherwise been computationally expensive.

      If there is a hard AI solution, which of course is arguable, neural networks will be part of it.

      When you put something in, you merely evaluate a rather simple nonlinear function. There is no intelligence involved!

      Well that really depends on how you look at it, how did training take place? What is intelligence? You're vastly simplifying the arguements here, perhaps intentionally? I'm sure the hard AI faction would argue that we (human beings) are just a sum of a great number of simple nonlinear functions, out of which there is emerging complexity.

      I don't know whether I agree, but the arguement can't simply be dismissed by waving you arms in the air and saying "non-linear functions". Which isn't to say I entirely disagree that this is a (possibly) effective counter-arguement, it's just (as it stands) intellectually weak. I think I'll track down my PhD student, it's almost morning coffee time, he's probably about by now, and see if he can argue his way out of this one to my satisfaction..

      Al.
      --
      The Daily ACK - Eclectic posts by yet another hacker
    3. Re:Hold your horses! by STFS · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I think the headline of this story is misleading.

      The fact that NASA is "boosting" AI does not mean that they're going to be doing rovers that can evaluate themselves whether a dark spot on the ground is a hole or a shadow! I doubt most people realize how conservative NASA is when it comes to AI.

      I went to a lecture held by one of NASA's AI team leaders who was talking about the AI of the current rovers... there is virtually none! He said that the most complex AI is actually on earth to help scientists create a "mission plan" that they send to the rovers once every 24hrs. These mission plans are on the form: "move forward 2 meters, turn left 22 degrees, take picture of ground, move forward 1 meter" (very simplified).

      I talked to this guy after the lecture and asked him if they really had no AI on the robots themselves and specifically asked about such things as correctional AI for the rover movement. To clarify this, imagine that you instruct the rover to "move forward 1 meter", all it will do is turn all wheels equally so that the rover would move forward one meter if it were on perfectly even ground. This is of course not the case on Mars and you'll have rovers turning when they should move forward and not turning enough and so on. So when I asked him about the correctional AI (to have AI on board correct these environmental issues, for example take pictures of the environment and calculate the "offset" to find out if it's drifting) he said there was no such thing. The only AI on the rover is something that actually makes it panic! That is, it evaluates if there are any deviations from what the guys down on earth told it to do and expect and basically shuts down if there are.

      So AI to make sure that the rover moves in a straight line when the scientists instructed it to do so would be incredably beneficial and IMHO would even increase the level of security by making sure that the rover actually does what it's told to do! I asked him if this was something that NASA was considering to add to future rovers and he said they were in the process of convincing "upper management" that this would actually pay off. These are multi-million dollar scientific tools, not toys, so any addition to them needs to go through strict approval processes.

      But according to this article it seems that approval for such things as the "movement correctional AI" has been granted, but as I said, I think people should not be fooled into thinking that this is some sort of an "I, Robot" type of AI!

      --
      You don't think enough... therefore you better not be!
    4. Re:Hold your horses! by ControlFreal · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think there has been (was) a view that neural nets were the solution, that's obviously not the case, but they've been over used...

      Yes. That's true. It's funny in a sad way: I'm using cluster weighted models in my research. In all truth, those are just neural networks with radial basis function that, in addition to providing an output, also provide a covariance matrix for that output, which can be used either as a confidence bound, or to estimate a PDF instead of a point estimate. However, nobody in their right (?) mind is calling these models "neural networks" anymore in publications. I think this is exactly because of the backlash you describe. The reaction is like "Neural networks, ow, that's so 1990...".

      Well that really depends on how you look at it, how did training take place? What is intelligence? You're vastly simplifying the arguements here, perhaps intentionally? I'm sure the hard AI faction would argue that we (human beings) are just a sum of a great number of simple nonlinear functions, out of which there is emerging complexity

      Yes of course, that is true. But like I said in another post: this "just" is the problem. In mean: put 100 simple things together and have them interact, and you end up with a system that is vastly more complex than just 100 unconnected simple things. We have no idea on how to learn the parameters of such a behemoth, let alone how to initialize it.

      The devil in in the interaction here.

      I don't know whether I agree, but the arguement can't simply be dismissed by waving you arms in the air and saying "non-linear functions".

      I think a little explanation is in order here, particularly regarding the public of my first post. Of course you are right in saying that I'm severely cutting corners by shouting "just a nonlinear function.". I knew that cutting the corner like that might trigger (or even offend, in which case I apologise) some real AI researchers. However, my comment was mainly meant for the "clueless hordes" that are engrossed by the word "Neural Network", to let them know that neural networks are not quite the awsome things many people seem to think they are.

      Populism? Yes, guilty as charged ;)

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      Support a Europe-related section on Slashdot!
    5. Re:Hold your horses! by Louis+Savain · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What you fail to realize is that the NN used in AI (aka. ANN) are highly unlikely to have more than a shallow resemblence to the NN in real organic brains.

      I you read my stuff, you will see that I am acutely aware of the sorry state of ANN research. In fact, I believe that traditional ANNs are a joke. The same goes for almost everything that ever came out of GOFAI. The good stuff is what's happening in the spiking neural networks (SNN) field within computational neuroscience. SNNs are much more biologically plausible. They are the future of AI.

      You would think the different variations of the 'Free Lunch Theorem' should have caused people to catch on sooner

      The 'No free lunch theorem' is a complete joke, IMO. The search of human-level intelligence is precisely a search for free lunches. Otherwise, we might as well throw in the towel and go fly a kite or something. Why? Because the interconnectedness of intelligence is so astronomical as to be intractable to formal approaches. The fact that the brain consists of a number of cell assembblies, each consisting of huge number of similar neurons, is proof that there is are plenty of free lunches to go around. The 'no free lunch' mantra is a way for some people to guarantee an income from grants and other government freebies.

      The sad thing about AI is that most of the community seems to be doing situation specific regression or optimization, with no plan on how that could eventually get us closer to 'higher intelligence'.

      The reason is that the problem is too hard, especially if you approach it from a cognitive science point of view. So, people started to build limited domain programs on whcih they attached the 'AI' label. This way they can claim that what they're doing is 'AI', but the rest of us know better. It's all a bunch of glorified toys.

  14. This one's climbed a 'mountain' by mishmash · · Score: 3, Interesting

    NASA's mars exploration rover has just climbed a mountain to take a photo, read the article about the tough 3km climb, including making decisions about how to cope with 'injuries'... do you think AI is up to dealing with challanges like that yet?

  15. Looks more like Weak AI ... by foobsr · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "Creating strong AI software is a very exciting and challenging problem, and it inspires us and our students to work on this bold effort," said noted artificial intelligence expert professor Milind Tambe of the University of California, Los Angeles, who has worked with Rajan."

    I very much doubt that they are talking about strong AI there. ( Arguments for Strong AI).

    I rather believe he is more on the weak side.

    But, well, he is a noted expert.

    CC.

    def. The two main varieties of AI are called "strong" and "weak". Strong AI argues that it is possible that one day a computer will be invented which can be called a mind in the fullest sense of the word. In other words, it can think, reason, imagine, etc., and do all the things that we currently associate with the human brain. Weak AI, on the other hand, argues that computers can only appear to think and are not actually conscious in the same way as human brains are.

    loc. cit.

    --
    TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
  16. Potential situation by ArcticCelt · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This potential situation remembers me about the story of the creation of the huge battle in Lord of the Rings, Return of the King. Each creature was programmed with basic independent AI realistic reactions and an unexpected problem aroused. Each time there was to much battle in one area the virtual creatures where fleeing to security and the result was a bunch of cowards avoiding fight... They corrected the problem by making them dumber. :)

    --

    Yahh, hiii haaaaa! -Major Kong, from Dr. Strangelove
    1. Re:Potential situation by Zarhan · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Each time there was to much battle in one area the virtual creatures where fleeing to security and the result was a bunch of cowards avoiding fight... They corrected the problem by making them dumber. :)

      No..The first versions had a bunch of 'agents' running away. The reason was not that they chose the most intelligent action (ie. running away), but because they could not find the opponent. They had to revamp the agents' senses so that those on the edges of battle could actually find their way to where the action is.

      Makes for a nice story, though :)

  17. Probe should know how to do CPR by p0 · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... just in case it bumps on Beagle 2

    --
    This is my sig. There are thousands more, but this one is mine.
  18. Re:Cockroach by osho_gg · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Please don't underestimate the living creature who is said to have the highest chances of surviving an all nuclear war break-out?

    Intelligence is not merely defined as "processing power" where processing is making calculations involving numbers, scientific formulas etc. Intelligence encompasses much more than that.

    Nasa would make itself proud if they can really build a robot who, like a cockroach, can see what's ahead and around of it, determine a route of access and follow it. The one that will have the ability to sense an incoming danger and very quickly (in a franction of second) determine it's nature, determine the direction it is coming from and then manuever itself to evade the danger. And possibly attack the source of danger to eliminate it. One intelligenet enough to figure out where to hide from danger and how taking into account the nature of danger. One who could the visual data to identify objects, their nature, their shape, their type, whether it's living or not and whether it is interesting for whatever purpose they have in mind.

    Cockroaches are capable of a lot more "intelligenet" behavior than I can elaborate in the margin of this comment :). But you get my point.

    Osho

  19. Re:Out of control? by tiled_rainbows · · Score: 3, Funny

    Funny, I imagine it more like this:

    >N

    Plain
    You are on a flat red plain, featureless apart from occasional scattered rocks. To the East lies a crater.

    >E

    Crater's Edge.

    You are on the edge of a shallow crater. You can go down into the crater, or West, back to the plain.
    There is a small rock here.

    >look at rock

    You can't see anything like that here.

    >Look at stone

    You can't see anything special about the stone.

    >Test stone for life.

    I only understood you so far as wanting to test the stone.