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The Cost of Computer Naivete
wiredog writes "What happens when you put an unprotected Windows 98 box on a broadband connection? Two perspectives from two reporters for the Washington Post (frr,yyy): The User's " an odyssey that has taken $800 and roughly 48 man-hours over nearly three weeks" and Digital Doctor's "Her PC was in such bad shape, it required 10 1/2 hours of surgery to restore it to working condition.""
(Yeah I know, fair to Microsoft... on Slashdot!)
Windows 98 is 6 years old and isn't sold with computers anymore. This test just shows remaining Windows 98 users they should keep up to date or upgrade to XP.
Boxing Equipment Reviews
"Her PC was in such bad shape, it required 10 1/2 hours of surgery to restore it to working condition."
It takes me a lot shorter to install Win98 on a box and that includes saving any or all documents.
1.5 hours tops.
This is the sig that says NI (again)
Very few machines are worth 10.5 hours for me. Factoring in labor, I can save a lot of money by saving the data elsewhere then FDisking and reinstalling the OS. Even considering windows install time, program install time, and configuration, I don't have 10.5 hours in it and the user probably has a less glitchy machine for it.
How many roads must a man walk down? 42.
While Apple's track record on security isn't perfect, I hope she'll realize that she has these problems because she chooses to use Microsoft products. That it's a choice is debateable, given MSFT's documented predatory practices. However, it's ultimately up to her to stand up to the monopoly, since the government refused to.
If she buys an Apple Mac computer next time, she will have a computer that functions better, works better, and breaks much more rarely than her current Windows computer. It's simple, really.
(Me, I use Debian GNU/Linux because I value the freedom that is in Debian's goals. I recognize that Apple shares to some degree these goals, looking at its KHTML-based Safari goals.)
Flame me, since many of you will, but consider that whether you blame the creators of Gator, Microsoft, or worm writers, she would have a better experience on a Mac.
"choice"
|/usr/games/fortune
'Surgery' is a little misleading since it suggests hardware damage was incurred. If I was determined to use a metaphor, I'd go for 'therapy' :)
Prosperity is only an instrument to be used, not a deity to be worshipped. Calvin Coolidge
I find it interesting (and a little frightening) how otherwise educated people (reporters, for instance) can be so clueless in critical areas. Is this inevitable for people?
And yes, I do consider basic computer literacy a critical skill; your computer is not just an appliance. Letting your computer get 0wned is much like letting your car run out of oil.
----
"Ours was a free culture. It is becoming much less so."-Lawrence Lessig
Consider a hypothetical Win98 user. For the sake of argument call her 'my mum'. She runs a Pentium II-450 and uses it for email, word processing, web browsing and very occasional other bits of office. The computer runs all these tasks fine, but it really isn't powerful enough to run XP. Windows 2000 would make life better, but it will go out of support soon and if you worry about getting legal copies, it's not available in a home edition so it's very expensive. Windows ME can hardly be called an improvement.
So you're saying people in this position need to spend money to upgrade their hardware despite the fact that the current computer runs all the software they want to run at a speed they find acceptable.
Yes I know; install Linux.
In soviet russia stale jokes recycle you!
I bet he didn't check the hosts file. I bet that was null routing the liveupdate DNS records.
Once the infections were removed, LiveUpdate still could not retrieve the latest virus-targeting data. So I gave up on that and uninstalled and reinstalled the entire Norton AntiVirus program, hoping that its update system would work afterward -- but it did not. I again tried to access Microsoft's Windows Update Web site, but IE still failed to respond.
Suspecting a problem with Internet Explorer itself, I tried to repair IE using the Add/Remove Programs control panel. That didn't work either, producing an error message that indicated some file or files necessary for IE were damaged or inaccessible. Trying to restore the previous version of IE, 5.5, yielded no benefit, either.
Finally, I abandoned ship, reinstalling the entire Windows 98 operating system to repair the damage to Internet Explorer and allow Kathleen's computer to access the Internet and update the Norton AntiVirus definitions.
I always check that file. It always gets hijacked. I'd be willing to bet that was his problem.
There are quicker methods.
Drive C: contains a valid NTFS partion, are you sure you wish to format (y/N) y.
From the article:
"What a revelation: Four programs -- one a firewall and three to combat spyware -- I downloaded FREE worked better than one I paid through the nose for. Why would anyone create these terrific programs for free? Often, as in the case of ZoneAlarm, they hope people will like the product so much they will buy an upgrade or, in the case of the spyware, pay to subscribe for upgrades."
She was right in the middle of the trees, and couldn't see the forest... yes, free software, even WINDOWS free software, works better and does what it says it does.
Talk about leading horses to water...
For example, a tax accountant would probably think you clueless if you ended up having a big tax bill on April 15. Paying your taxes properly is a critical skill, since everyone has to do it.
Or a doctor would think you clueless if your cholesterol was over 200. It's (usually) quite simple to keep your blood cholesterol low.
Unless it has happened to them or someone they know, most computer users are unaware of things like spyware, virii, etc.
bun-fhuinneog agam!
Techy Nerds generally have poor social, interpersonal skills. This is the largest factor causing the destruction of their IT industry through outsourcing.
:-)
Doctors have Unions, called the AMA. Unions provide "Congress" protection. Dentists have Unions, called the ADA. Their Unions protect their industry by limiting enrollment and limiting both OUTsourcing and INsourcing. There are plenty of willing foreign Doctors prevented to emigrate to the U.S. to alleviate the high costs of Medical.
Doctors and Dentists are smart. They have Congress protection. They have social skills.
Techies and Nerds are stupid. They have poor personal skills. They have poor Congress protection. Hence, Congress screws their IT industry because they can. No protection. No Union. No AMA or ADA for Techies.
This is the cost of Techy naivete. It's the systematic destruction of their industry and jobs through OUTsourcing and INsourcing and Mass Immigration.
Outsource Congress this November.
Score & Karma: SASA: Slashdot Approval Seekers Anonymous
Is it just me or should that guy be embarrassed to admit that he took 10.5 hours to reinstall an OS and a security suite? I realize that he took the long way to fix the issue. As far as I see it if ANYONE other then the client has had root on a box you can't trust it. Ever. You need to reinstall from known good media and start over.
But maybe that is just me.
Not the point. If the customer doesn't have backups of their work & you don't have easy access to some means of backing it up, you'll have to do it the hard way. (WTF are you doing such a job if you don't carry around a spare hard disk?!)
If the customer simply doesn't like the sound of rebuilding from scratch, you'll have to do it the hard way.
If the customer doesn't have access to original install media (and you're going to be a Good Little Tech and refuse to put pirated software on), you're going to have to do it the hard way.
> Is it just me or should that guy be embarrassed to admit that he took 10.5 hours to reinstall an OS and a security suite?
Embarrassed? If he was charging $45/hour he should be bragging about it.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Long ago, an early Mac ad compared itself to the IBM PC by dropping the corresponding manuals next to each machine. The Mac manual was light as a feather, the PC manual pile was 2 feet high. It was of course an exaggeration, but the point was valid.
I don't see how Apple can afford to not take advantage of the current spyware/security craziness occurring in the Windows world, and put out a ballsy ad along the same lines. Perhaps show each computer out of the box being plugged into a broadband connection, and on the Windows box, instantly a dozen windows pop up advertising things. Something along those lines.
I use both Macs and Windows all the time. My mom has a Mac, because I don't have time for the "family tech support" that her having a PC would require. She does complain about occasional problems with the Mac, but I have no doubt it would be at least 3 times as bad if she was running Windows.
I do this for a living. I work a regular job trading futures, but I've been playing with computers since I was 6 or so. It is the easiest money to make. I could charge tons, but I just charge around $100 bucks for 1-6 hours of work and usually people are so happy I make everything work that they give me food and beer.
It boils down to having a USB key with 5 programs. They all fit on a 16MB key. Sometimes if I know my client has a virus program ahead of time I will download the definitions, but not that often.
People's problems are always the same. Virus and spyware. I don't recommend that most people use a software firewall since everyone just gets click happy. I usually tell them to just get a router. I have yet to get a call back from any of my clients and each time I do see them they say they never have any problems. They also like the fact that the router is just a one time buy rather than constantly buying new software and upgrading. I know there are free programs out there, but most people just don't trust them (beats me why).
What I think is shocking is the fact that the PC tech apparently did not feel it necessary to wipe the OS and start from scratch. Both these articles perpetrate the dangerous notion that being r00ted is recoverable. Once a system has been compromised, there's no telling what other nasties reside therein.
This bit of info was sorely lacking from both articles.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
First, the article says the guy came over in course of the next week and try to install Norton firewall, to no avail, and that the owner made some calls to M$ for like half an hour. Therefore the $800 paid for more than the 10 hrs of technician labor.
Second, as someone else pointed out in this thread, you do not expect a car to go on without maintenance. Come on, the computer is not a damn fridge. It is a COMPUTING device, and the Internet is a complex two-way medium, not a dumb TV set. If you do not take care of your car, you will end up with your thumb on the road. Same here. Tow-away and repairs.
So no, the technician did not act like a used car salesman. The dude just fixed a computer that was unusable.
"He should also be smacked in the head for not getting her off Windows 98. Windows 98 is 6+ years old. How many people here recommend 6 year old Linux distros?"
I sometimes use and sometimes reccommend Windows 98. It doesn't have the security problems of XP/2000 (no Windows Messenger, no LDASS or whatever that was, no remote assistance, no product activation, no media player with evil crap in it, you can update it without revealing the software you use to Microsoft, the EULA doesn't allow Microsoft to impose new terms on you in the future, nor does it allow them to remotely install software on your machine. It's not as stable, but it only needs to run for long enough to play a game; nobody would be using Windows for any real work anyway, and you can dual-boot back to a proper operating system when you've finished playing the game.
Oh yeah, and "flamebait" is the button you want to press. Reccomending windows98 indeed! Don't I know that the moderators are all MS guys, with their "if you administered a billion computers for a fortune-500 company like I do, you'd know..." attitude.
I was shocked that a search fo Mozilla came up empty. Simply switching to Firefox and making some descent security choices prevents all sorts of spyware. This is something that our reporter can actually do proactively, if only she gets the word. The other useful tool is the Thunderbird Email client. Remove MSIE and Outlook (Express or regular) and you stop all sorts of spyware and virii. Thow in a cheap router with firewall (as others have stated) and some antivirus software and you will have a reasonable chance of being able to use high speed Internet with a Win98 box.
Think global, act loco
Is it me, or is anybody who doesn't install a basic hardware firewall crazy??? (Or at least foolhardy.)
I've setup DSL and T1s for lots of small companies and friends, and I always install a seperate firewall unit. Post-rebate, these things are sometimes $10 or less. (I wouldn't use one of the $10 units for a business, but it works great for Aunt Petunia.)
With a hardware firewall, you don't need to jump onto WindowsUpdate immediately. And you can get to WindowsUpdate and update the system before your system gets compromised.
Sure, your system is still vulnerable to viruses (via email) and spyware (via stupid user clicking and IE vulnerabilties), but you are very unlikely to get rooted or infected for simply existing on the Internet.
(Firewalls can have security holes too, but they usually aren't so gaping.)
And here's another vote for Avast antivirus (www.avast.com). Great program and free (for home use). Better than some pay programs.
Anybody whose data is worth less than their computer is just using it as a toy. Regaining access to your data is of far greater value than making the stupid hardware run. If it was one of my computers, I'd happily pay the $800 (or even $8000) to get my data back, and *then* I'd ditch the "ancient piece of crap machine" and buy a new one.
(Well, actually, I keep distributed backups to avoid this problem, and use almost exclusively ancient piece of crap hardware since the machines themselves are irrelevant. So if it were my computer, I'd probably just spend the $800 on women and beer.)