A Tale in the Desert II Goes Open Beta

Teppy writes "Yesterday afternoon, A Tale in the Desert II launched its open beta. Sometimes called 'a strange psychology experiment', ATITD is a competitive, independently developed PC MMO game, previously covered on Slashdot, based on socialization. Windows and Linux clients are available for download from the official website. If Slashdot readers use the special code 'farmertaco' and visit a school of Art and Music, special goodies await." We've previously covered the first iteration of this unique, combat-free MMO.

Comments

Showing my age

[tod_miller]

Perhaps I am old, but any online game where you can't bunny hop, strafe jump, head shot, team kill or spawn kill just doesn't feel right.

And I don't even want to know if camping in this game involves a skill roll and tent pegs, please... :-)

Re:Showing my age

[blahlemon]

And I don't even want to know if camping in this game involves a skill roll and tent pegs, please... :-)

It's not the skill rolling and tent pegs thats frustrating it's being forced to eat digital smores and sing Kum-bi-ya to a six string that really starts to get to you.

Re:Showing my age

[Aleric]

Naa to make your camp you build a compound. That takes wood and bricks. Tents take boards, nails, canvas, linen and rope.

Re:Showing my age

[Kwil]

You are showing your age.. ..but it's not old.

The old ones among us remember the time when no online games allowed you to do any of those things.

Well.. I suppose you could bunny hop.

. /emit bunny hops merrily away.

Re:Showing my age

[leshert]

And boards take wood and either a wood plane, which takes stone blades or a carpentry shop for iron blades. And nails require iron, which requires iron ore and charcoal (God, no, not more charcoal). And canvas, linen, and rope require twine, thread, and twine respectively; twine requires tow and thread requires lint, both of which require rotten flax, which requires fresh flax, which requires flax seeds, which requires just a trip to the local school!

Whew.

So anyway...

This is the tent that Ehud built.

This is the construction site that stood in for the tent that Ehud build.

This is the canvas that covered the construction site that stood in for the tent that Ehud built.

This is the twine that I wove into canvas that covered the construction site that stood in for the tent that Ehud built.

This is the tow I spun into twine that I wove into canvas that covered the construction site that stood in for the tent that Ehud built.

This is the flax, all rotten and black, I hackled for tow that I spun into twine that I wove into canvas that covered the construction site that stood in for the tent that Ehud built.

This is the flax, rehpic silver I think, I rotted downriver, that I hackled for for tow that I spun into twine that I wove into canvas that covered the construction site that stood in for the tent that Ehud built.

These are the seeds, and the water in jugs, that grew into the flax that I rotted downriver that I hackled for tow that I pun into twine that I wove into canvas that covered the construction site that stood in for the tent that Ehud built.

This is the School of Art in O.E., that gave me the seeds, that grew into the flax that I rotted downriver that I hackled for tow that I pun into twine that I wove into canvas that covered the construction site that stood in for the tent that Ehud built.

Doh! Time for Tale 2...

Re:Showing my age

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahhh, the lure of simple solutions. Kill, shoot, maim.

I read an articile today how some US designer thinks German games are not sucessful because you *gasp* need to THINK!

Give me entertainment and freeze my higher brain functions.

Now let's hope nobody ever confuses this approach for games with any reality...

Boo. Hiss.

[Apiakun]

Ok guys, if you can get a linux client out, how about one for OS X? In the meantime, I'll keep playing Kingdom of Loathing.

The problems with ATITD

[Talrias]

While I enjoyed playing ATITD for my test area, I would never have subscribed to it, for the reason that it's boring to gather stuff, make it into stones/bricks/straw and then do stuff with that, etc. etc. etc. A game has to be fun for me to want to play it, and ATITD, the epitome of the grind (repeating something to death) just doesn't do it for me.

While I didn't try it, ATITD seemed to be one of those games which you could macro incredibly easily - you click to move around, and depending on where you are standing, you can do certain things (such as pick up slate or gather mud). Did anyone try macroing in ATITD?

I can't say I strongly disliked ATITD, it is a revolutionary game which showed that MMOs don't have to be about killing monsters or other people to be fun, but I fear that ATITD II will again be a niche game to those who don't mind the monotony of repeatedly doing the same thing.

Coincidentally, I wrote an article about this on Starglade recently - "Grinding Time".

Re:The problems with ATITD

[Talrias]

The article I wrote was Slashdotted too - much appreciated, whoever posted it! :)

Re:The problems with ATITD

[Drawkcab]

Of course people have tried macroing in ATITD, but its not actually as useful as you'd think. It was only pervasive in a few areas, such as fishing, which had limited effects on the economy. In other areas it wasn't generally worth the effort of setting up and running a macro.

Thats because the game isn't all about gathering slate any more than other MMORPGs are about killing rats. The low technology that you mention is just how the game begins, and it isn't actually all that repetitive because it doesn't take too long to outgrow that stage.

Things like collecting grass and making bricks with it that are easily macro'd are things that you don't have to macro, because at moderate levels of technology you outgrow the need to do those things. You can grow grass in greenhouses and make bricks in brick machines much more efficiently. You can automate your mines. The game itself automates the things that are most tedious, and most susceptible to macroing.

More advanced technologies are much harder to macro because they require more human interaction, more thought, more diverse resources, and less grinding away. Some of them are also sufficiently entertaining that you wouldn't want to macro them.

I think you're underestimating the game based on a slow start. The beta of the second telling only has a few stone age technologies unlocked, so there is nothing very impressive to see yet, but if you had gotten a better mentor in your 24 hour trial of the first telling, you might have seen more of what keeps people interested in the game.

Re:The problems with ATITD

[Talrias]

I don't see why I have to go through all the boring stuff to get to the good bits though - this is a game, it's supposed to be entertaining the whole way through.

Chris

Re:The problems with ATITD

[t_little]

I'm sorry it wasn't fun for you. I found tons of things that weren't just grinding. Most of my goals throughout the game didn't require me to make a single brick or pick up a single blob of clay. Even most of the defined challenges, the 7 Tests in each of 7 Disciplines, do not require massive repetition of simple tasks.

Macroing is permitted in ATITD, provided that you are attending sufficiently to respond to GMs. However, despite initial appearances macros are not very useful and not really widely used. Most goals have a number of ways to achieve the same end, and if you feel you need to mindlessly click something a few thousand times then you may be missing a less tedious way to reach your objective. Many of the tasks in the crafting/building system depend upon player skill, not character skill levels or ability to tirelessly repeat the same action thousands of times. Finally, you achieve the highest position of Pharaoh's Oracle in most of the Disciplines by your abilities and reputation as a player and citizen of Egypt, not by having your character amass the most stuff.

If something is getting too repetitive, there are at least a hundred other goals you could be working toward; no player will master them all. Take a break from your current rut and try something else. I believe that anyone who finds themselves caught up in "the monotony of repeatedly doing the same thing" has lost sight of the long range goals in the game, and the fact that there are many different ways that they can work toward those goals.

Re:The problems with ATITD

[cluke]

To paraphrase what Beavis and Butthead said about Radiohead:
You have to have the bits that suck to make the cool bits seem so cool...

Re:The problems with ATITD

[Talrias]

We do, it's called EverQuest!

*runs fast*

Re:The problems with ATITD

[Drawkcab]

You wouldn't appreciate a brick machine if you've never had to make a brick. It would just be the new baseline for you.

It doesn't take long at all for the game to start branching out into different goals for you to pursue, such as tests of the 7 disciplines. When you get bored of one thing, explore a little and discover more about what there is to do in the game. Try to find a way to accomplish your goal without spending so much time on it. Its only when you single-mindedly pursue one goal at a time, and approach it with raw effort instead of finesse, that things get boring.

Forming or joining guilds is one easy way to avoid having to do so much boring work to accomplish your goals. You can get into a guild or make your own almost immediately after making it off the welcome island. Some people immediately reject this idea since on other games guilds are oriented towards the hardcore gamers, but in atitd, it is casual players who benefit most from guilds, and there are very few people who play for long without eventually joining one. Most join several different guilds, some of them their primary guild(s), and many others with specialized purposes. Your social networks will be more valuable to you in the long run than your resources or buildings, and social bonds aren't reset when the telling or beta ends. If you rule out the possibility of ever banding together with other players to accomplish things, or even just trading with more advanced players for things, then yes, you may find some aspects a little tedious, but the problem is in how you're approaching things.

Of course, for some players, any time at all not spent fragging n00bs will be intolerably boring, and those people will never see the draw of this sort of game.

Re:The problems with ATITD

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, for some players, any time at all not spent fragging n00bs will be intolerably boring, and those people will never see the draw of this sort of game.

He suggests shortening some of the early game tedium, and you react like that? Excellent. You might as well edit your sig to say, "Don't play ATITD-- we're all dicks.".

I rarely enjoy PvP in MMOGs, but if it's full of popele like you, I'd find a lack of PvP intolerable.

Re:The problems with ATITD

[Anonymous Coward]

That's exactly why i am considering quiting MMO's entirely and going back to FPS

A friend of mine was in the closed beta for this, he is completely obsessed with this game. Seems there is a huge emphasis on architecture and social development, and from what i say it really does have alot of tedious elements, but the concept of an MMO without combat is interesting, while not my thing it obviously appeals to some people so all the power to them

Re:The problems with ATITD

[Lord_Dweomer]

ATITD attracts a certain crowd. There are many people playing it who do not enjoy the risk that comes with putting a lot of time into a character only to have him killed by a monster due to lack of stats, or worse, lag, or worst, a pk. This game is perfect for us.

It is also perfect for people who like games that give them a gradual guaranteed advancement based on how hard/smart they work. This game facilitates that mentality. That's fine that you may not find that appealing, just realize that many people do.

Re:The problems with ATITD

[Troed]

You can grow grass in greenhouses and make bricks in brick machines much more efficiently. You can automate your mines.

Me and my gf were both paying players, but stopped _before_ we got the automation since everything TOOK AGES to do (grass, bricks etc).

I think you're underestimating the game based on a slow start

The game (-creators) underestimated the amount of boredome that's acceptable for someone to throw money at.

Re:Boo. Hiss.

[floamy]

Why do you act like a OS X port would be smarter? More gamers use Linux than OS X, and OS X is a lot harder to port to, with the byte order and all.

Re:Boo. Hiss.

[shepuk]

A mac port is currently in progress (written by the same guy who wrote the linux client), and supposedly very close to completion.

Re:Boo. Hiss.

[Anonymous Coward]

ArmEagle:
Yes Pluribus is his name and he's really great!
We all love him for his dedication to this game.

OSX Port

[Jadecristal]

I know someone (that I work with) who has been helping with the OSX port, which is, as rumors indicate, close to done. From my understanding.

The whole process has been good for the client software as well. In the process of porting it, lots of things got cleaned up - something about gcc not being so friendly about inefficient coding practices as VC++ is. Perhaps I can convince that person to come post something nice and long about the wonderful joys of making the client byte-order independent.

Re:OSX Port

[Anonymous Coward]

Plur's mac port is nearly done, and if you hop on atitd's irc channel, you can get it from him. It's still got a ways to go, but it's been playable for a while now.

1 fps

[bug1]

It makes it hard to appreciate when you can only get 1 fps.

Re:1 fps

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, you're the one with the broken video driver installation, not them.

Re:1 fps

[Anonymous Coward]

ArmEagle

perhaps it would work better if you disabled the 'Advanced Terrain System'.
Go into your menu (Press ESC or click on yourself) -> Utility -> Video:

and set that 'ATS' setting to the first 'box'.

That might help a lot.

Slightly OT, and some might say flamebait, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

... why is people so damn obbsesed over MMORPGs lately? Where i work (cybecafe), 8 out of 10 machines are either playing Mu of Argentum Online (both very popular here), or some other sort of online rpg.

Is it the endless hours "training" (e.g., clicking endlessly over the same icon until it dies, then find next)? Or the repetitive quests? I honestly can't see why, but there must be something to them - because the moment they get bored with the game or become too powerful (if you don't get your character resetted before, which kinda makes your efforts useless), they switch to yet another MMORPG as fast as they can.

I haven't played any in quite a while. So perhaps i'm missing something.

Re:Slightly OT, and some might say flamebait, but.

[Lisandro]

Damn. Forgot to register. This was me, just in case anyone's wondering ;)

Re:Slightly OT, and some might say flamebait, but.

[genrader]

I used to think the same, I don't know if you've ever played one but you would have to play one for a while to find out. It's the roleplaying aspect for some, the social life for others, the ingame economy of some games (even if the game itself is broken) like SWG, etc.

Re:Slightly OT, and some might say flamebait, but.

[Lisandro]

I've tried, more than once... the thing is that these kind of games become quickly boring for me the minute things stop becoming fun and more of a "job", if you know what i mean. Having to spend 3hs clicking and/or walking through nothing to reach some weird part of a map in order to advance in a quest or gaining HPs sucks.

Re:Slightly OT, and some might say flamebait, but.

[genrader]

The best games are new ones, adventuring with friends in large worlds :D

Re:Boo. Hiss.

[brandonY]

You mean you don't use network byte order? Ye gods, man!

Re:Slightly OT, and some might say flamebait, but.

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe because they're all really just electronic skinner boxes .

Where is the download exactly?

[Trejkaz]

I can see a lot of downloads for ATITD, but since this post is about ATITD II, it would be nice to know where to get that from. After all, the web site is either very unhelpful, or simply the wrong web site.

Re:Where is the download exactly?

[dreamsylvania]

Just download from one of the mirrors to the right side of the home page. When you install it, it'll say "A Tale in the Desert" (not II), but once it's installed you can choose to play ATITD or ATITD2 beta. It's very confusing, I know.

Re:Where is the download exactly?

[Trejkaz]

Aha. That's what got me tricked. It's a neat engine by the looks of it, the number of open source licenses they use is staggering. :-)

Re:Where is the download exactly?

[Anonymous Coward]

ArmEagle:
yeah, they've been using Cal3D (I think that's what it's called, used for modelling i think) and made their own changes to it, caling it eCal3D. And returning back their improvements.
Dunno what happened after that though ;P

ATITD

[Dizzle]

The title shortens to "a titty"? That is simply amazing!

Re:Boo. Hiss.

[Pluribus]

Actually, the network code was already byte order clean, however lots of the internal buffering code, and actual graphics code made assumptions about the byteordering in memory which where incorrect. Those are just a matter of tracking them down...

As for using network byte-ordering for eveything in RAM that is just horribly nuts... (why should I byte swap every int and every pointer before it ever saved in RAM...) The game was written to be portable, but over its lifetime, it was never tested and audited to ensure that it work on anything except PC hardware)