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Controversial StarForce Copy Protection Creators Quizzed
Thanks to FiringSquad for its interview with the creators of the StarForce copy protection scheme for PC videogames. The author explains: "In recent months there's been an increasing awareness and alarm over StarForce copy protection. It's actually a driver that installs itself with the [Windows] games that come shipped with it, and originally it didn't uninstall when the game was uninstalled." StarForce's Abbie Sommer argues the advantages of "driver-level copy protection", explaining: "The drivers are what prevents the use of kernel debugger utilities such as SoftICE, Cool Debugger, Soft Snoop etc. Also the drivers prevent emulators from spoofing a drive, and thwart burning tools such as Alcohol 120%." The author concludes by injecting a little personal opinion into the mix, arguing: "PC games will never go away, but if the market keeps shrinking due to the increasing ease of piracy... then the number and quality of games will almost certainly decrease."
Thanks for nothing! If I want to use these tools then I shouldn't have to put up with this kind of crap from software companies. It's almost like them installing a virus. They wouldn't like it if I installed software on their machines that denied access to certain things, would they.
It's a Bagel.
I wont buy anygame with this crap. And besides, the crack is already out there somewhere by now.
I hope the big publishers all get run off of the computer game industry, and all the people who like "gaming" instead of computer games go with them.
Then those of us who prefer good games to good graphics will have computer games to ourselves again.
Bring back the games on floppies in little plastic bags!
and you can be sure that I'll start to behave like one.
It's interesting that with all the crap that keeps happening with how our rights are taken away and companies like this are installing things onto our computers to prevent us from using tools that we should be able to use that so many people just take it. Too many people are not passionate enough about things like this that it allows these companies to continue to do these things.
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." [Thomas Jefferson]
The guy is missing something. They're trying so hard to beat softice.. but they forget that pros don't need to use breakpoints, thus they don't need to actually run the app to disassemble it.
http://hte.sf.net would work just peachy.
1)Physical access to a machine, means the person has "root" access or will have it very shortly. Defeating a driver installed with a game shouldn't take too much effort.
2)If a game is truely worth playing, then it is worth paying for. Like today's music, most of today's games aren't worth paying for.
"if the market keeps shrinking due to the increasing ease of piracy... then the number and quality of games will almost certainly decrease."
Yeah, I've been hearing that since my Amiga gaming days, back when I had to travel to the capital city just to find a place that sold legitimate game copies, back when piracy was as just a blank floppy away. Look how much the number and quality has shrunk in the gaming market since then...
.... cause we all know how much damage piracy does to the music industry. Ba-zing!
That's right. All your base.
I see the piracy of games being the lesser threat to the game industry. Sure, it's an issue, but they should be more afraid of people waking up and realizing that they're getting crapped on by game companies.
People won't be so computer-illiterate in about ten years when computers will be as common as any other appliance, and people know how to maintain their common appliances. (IE: Don't shove a fork in a toaster, proper oven cleaning protocol, etc), and they won't really like bullshit drivers installing themselves without much notice (People don't read EULAs.).
Another though: What if the anti-virus companies decide that this is bullshit and we find that Norton Anti-Virus starts complaining about this crap. The game companies will sure as hell think twice before they restict people's computer useage without telling them.
The Yasashii Syndicate ||
The stronger you make the copy protection, the more you inconvenience your legitimate users, and the more attractive the "cracked" product becomes. Making the w4rz3d version a more useful product than your original is a bad marketing ploy.
In my opinion, such things should be categorized as malware, and should only be allowed if adequate warning is given to the user before installation.
Anyway, even when installed as a driver, it can't be fully crack-proof --- the driver can be removed, and the game code can be changed to skip the accesses to the driver. If the game is popular enough, a crack will soon be produced (probably unusable for Internet games though), and even legit users may use them so that they can get rid of the driver that is possibly destabilizing the system.
For gamers with CD-ROMs that are incompatible with SecuROM (and other copy protection measures), it is currently more convenient to download and crack pirated versions, than to buy a legitimate copy.
This is a dangerous discrepancy, and is running the game industry into the ground.
First off, you most can certainly debug driver modules. SoftICE runs Ring 0. Even if their driver runs Ring 0, you can still see it. It's also on your hard disk. Even if it somehow disables the machine if SoftICE is detected, you have the data. It will be disassembled and it will be cracked.
/rant
And this brings up a point about copy protection. It really only fucks with the people who actually buy the CD. I bought The Sims after, admittedly, not paying for it for a while. But I did go out and buy it after about a month, and lo and behold my CD Key was already registered. Ah well, an email took care of that. But, next I buy Neverwinter Nights. Damn CD Protection goes so far as to not work in my DVD drive. This happens with a TON of protected games. Flight Simulator 2002 would continuously corrupt on install, SimCity 4, Baldurs Gates both 1 AND 2... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the SecuROM/SafeDisc methods do *not* produce valid Redbook CDROM standard CD's. Doesn't happen on non-secured discs like Streets and Trips, Windows XP, etc... Either way, I paid for these games and they don't work. Yet I can steal them and they work, no hassle. Hmm, not too hard of a debate. I actually sometimes will buy the game then download the crack because I'm tired of dealing with shitty copy protection.
Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
Nobody wants DRM or Malware type software destroying their freedom to use PC's.
No software company wants to invest 30 million into a (small?) project where sales are predicted by a declining history and diminishing market, or perhaps could disappear given the alarming ability to download gigs of data in a day.
In a perfect world, they would produce X, you want X, you buy X.
In a semi-perfect world. People Copy X, like it, Buy X
In todays world, a bit more perfect: People who copy and don't buy X, wouldn't have bought it anyway. (so does this mean copying impacts software?)
What does happen. People want games, if copying didnt exist, they would buy them, prices would drop. However, peope who say they wouldn't have bought the game anyway, shouldn't have needed to copy it.
OK, that bit over: If you purchase games, do you put up with measures that, in the end, are there for your benefit, as a games consumer (i.e., if they did stop copying)
Perhaps the issue is not so clear cut as music (which has always been way overpriced and overcontrolled)
Computer games used to be 1.99 casettes, 4.99 etc... not they are 49.99 at tops. Considering lower costs of marketting, vast market size, limitless and cheap distribution (electronically) and cheaper CD/DVD case distribution, the companies hsould be able to create games which sell for less, and meets a price that brings more consumers.
Sometimes it is easier to copy a game than physically walk out and buy it. This is the mentality they are dealing with.
At the end of the day - don't steal from people, no matter how rich they are.
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
"copy protection is a necessary part of the publishing process"
Yah, and remember the dark ages, when only the church could copy? Well if corporations get their way, it'll be dark again soon. Thanks Abbie!
"We have to live with it, and I don't think it is going away."
No Abbie, I don't have to live with it because I never buy copy protected software. Period. Sorry, but it's a religious thing with me.
"but let's face it, publishers aren't stupid"
Yes, yes they are, and evil and greedy too. First off, they corrupt copyright so that it no longer does what the founding fathers intended. Then they use it to abuse the market in order to force consumers to pay excessive prices for poor quality games.
In my humble opinion, piracy is a direct and inevitable outcome strictly due to the lack of fairness in the intellectual property issue.
Corporations have perverted the process and most people are simply taking the most economical route to get what they want
From where I sit, all of this is because companies will not produce products as inexpensively as possible. Indeed, these companies would earn more if they simply lowered the price to a point were far more people could easily afford to buy their products. As it is, most software is simply not affordable unless you are fairly affluent. So yes, they, the software publishers, are stupid, and what's worse, they're incompetent and abusive.
Words to men, as air to birds.
if the market keeps shrinking due to the increasing ease of piracy ... then the number and quality of games will almost certainly decrease. Without a big market there can be no big budgets. No Doom 4, no Far Cry 2 and no Half-Life 3.
Ironically, auther was not able to come up with even one example wich is not sequel. Indsutry really have problem with creativity, piracy notwithstanding.
Either way, it'll be cracked and available for immediate download faster than they can get it to stores. The only protection worth having is online key checking for online play.
Does everything include nothing?
Games need copy protection so developers can get paid to write them. I'm no fan of copy protection, but I am a fan of developers earning enough to feed their family while working on the next big release. I hate disc protection as much as the next guy, but if it's really such hard work to put a disc in your CD drive then maybe you need to lose some weight and take some exercise because you are clearly a lazy bastard.
As for a copy protection scheme I would be happy to use...I propose they lock the game to your PGP key and that to play you either require a PGP or GPG key. These are free to obtain and provide excellent security. An independant organisation tracks the keys and your licences. You are entitled to move the game from PC to PC as desired, but it needs your private key to play. A local keysafe utility can remember the key, so you punch it in once at the start of a night, like you do for your email and stuff. The keys can be revoked if they are obviously being shared so lamers can't just buy one copy and hand the key to everyone. This could be made no more onerous than iTunes.
This model would enable online downloading of games too, possibly saving the distribution costs and lowering the cost of the game. Best of all, no more 20 character serial numbers to punch in as you install the game - you simply auhorise it over the internet. Non internet users could authorise via phone/letter if needed.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
if the market keeps shrinking due to the increasing ease of piracy ... then the number and quality of games will almost certainly decrease. Without a big market there can be no big budgets. No Doom 4, no Far Cry 2 and no Half-Life 3.
Ironically, auther was not able to come up with even one example wich is not sequel. Indsutry really have problem with creativity, piracy notwithstanding.
Well, duh... you won't recongnize any of them games he mentions if they're not sequels and not almost released (insert DNF joke here). Imagine if he'd said,
"Without a big market, there'd be no Binge, Future Sky, or Rungy"
Two notes:
1. Do you know how hard it is to come up with a few random names?
2. Yes, I know someone will post a reply with links to all of these games that already exist. So don't bother.
-- Is "Sig" copyrighted by www.sig.com?
I used to have Sim City on the Amiga, it was a great game which had its own form of copy protection. It was a dark red/brown peice of paper with a series of numbers (in black) in a chart. It was designed this way so you couldn't photocopy it and there were too many numbers on the chart to practically write them all down. (Thank god i'm not colour blind)
My friend also had Sim City for the Amiga, but he got a copied/cracked version without the 'code check' process. Now I ended up getting a copy of his game since it didn't mean I had to deal with the annoying hard to read chart just to get into the game I had bought.
Summary: Pirate user no problems, Paying customer annoyed.
I reguraly crack the games I buy simply to save the CDs getting scratched, or even having to bother finding them, when I first heard of this type of copy protection I knew it was a vary bad thing.
It was a Raven Sheild patch that introduced a CD emulation check and stopped the game loading if it found anything.
Now imo that's very bad, software being designed pourposely to not work if other software is present. Imagine if MS added in a 'function' to stop Office working if you installed Mozilla for example, a lot of people would be pissed.
Acidentaly incompatability is one thing, but when it's by design, it is wrong on so man levels.
In the end people will be forced to pirate if they want to play a game regardless of their intentions to buy it or not.
I'm going to use the term piracy for copyright infringment because it's easier to type and everybody knows what I mean. If you don't like it, or want to educate me on the proper use of the term, you can stop reading now.
Piracy is unstoppable. Everybody with half a brain realizes that. Even exec types realize that, even though they have to maintain the facade that they are winning the war. The only exec who seems honest about it is Steve Jobs.
I was a software pirate before I was 10. I copied hundreds of C64 games. I bought less than 5. Every C64 owner I knew from school was about the same. Most of the games we never even played, we just collected them for the sake of collecting. I had a Playstation with a mod chip. After a while, I got tired of collecting games that I rarely played anyway. IMO, most weren't even worth the media costs of a cdr. Last year I gave the whole collection away to my cousin. I could of course do the same with the PS2 or XBOX now, but I find I've really outgrown games, save for a quick round of tetris on my PC once in a while.
The same with my PC, which is running XP volume license from suprnova + keygen + slipstreamed SP2. As I've said, I don't do games anymore. But I do have the pirated Office, Adobe suite, etc. Not that I really need or use them (I seem to use Wordpad more than Word...), but just because I can. If it ever becomes an issue, I can switch to Linux any time. I have used it extensively, it is often somewhat less convenient than Windows, but there are no killer features that really keep my tied to Windows.
Piracy isn't even a software issue, it is as old as the hills. There were pirates as soon as as recorded media began, as soon as printing began. Heck, probably even earlier, I bet even cavemen copied each others paintings. It's just human nature. If the industries ever find a way to effectively stop piracy (which I doubt), I will respond not as a law-abiding target demographic, but as a true homo-economicus: I will cut down my consumption. At the current prices (media costs + some effort to find warez) I consume a lot (or rather, I collect a lot). If the price increases because of effective copy-prevention measures, I will drastically lower my consumption. Having stacks of games, music, movies, apps if very nice, but I can survive without.
By the measurements of the RIAA and the MPAA and the BSA and maybe some other *A's I must have inflicted at leasts hundreds of thousands of dollars in "economic damage" and should probably be locked away for life. Will I ever regret what I've done? Probably only if I get arrested.
A parting thought. Consumers are far more powerful than multi-billion dollar media corporation. You won't die without recorded entertainment, regardless of what their marketing departments want you to think. The corporations *will* die if you stop consuming. Too bad consumers as a group are too fractured to realize their power. Marketing have people enslaved to meaningless product, brands, sport/music/film "stars", consumption in general so much, it's frightening. Some people really seem to believe they cannot have a meaningful life without 40GB of songs in their pocket. These days when someone says "I can't live without product XXX" I often wonder if they might even believe that literally.
Seems like a good first pass at reverse-engineering this driver would be to do the windows equivalent of strace/truss/tusc on it and see how the game communicates with the driver and what the driver says back.
I'm sure it wouldn't be as simple as that, they probably aren't "well-behaved" (which should me no WHQL for them). But if it were that simple, writing your own dummy driver that spoofs the game into thinking everything is hunky-dory would be trivial.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
I'm sick and tired of the continued assault on the public's right to fair use. It started with requiring the CD to play the game, and has progressed into preventing someone who purchased the game from even making a back-up copy of the software they purchased a license for.
What do we do when our CD's are scratched beyond repair, or worse yet, stolen? Go out and pay another $50?
When will our politicians stop looking out for the greedy few over the rights of the masses?
If the proper APIs are used the only time a Windows box really *needs* to be restarted is after youve downloaded a kernel security update.
Its been a while since I looked at the relevant APIs, but surely you need to reboot if you've upgraded a DLL that was in use by an application at the time your install program ran... or have they fixed this problem?
My attitude is very simple. If some moronic game company is going to install drivers on my PC without even asking, and then try to tell me that I can't use their game on my PC because I have unusual hardware or unusual software running, then they can go fsck themselves. I'm one of the people who do actually buy games, but I'm damned if I'm going to bend over for these morons.
Seriously, almost every game I own I've ended up downloading a CD crack for because either it's far too much of a pain to have to find a particular CD just to play a game that's already on my hard drive, or their appallingly bad 'copy protection' crap doesn't work with my SCSI DVD drive. These people are fscking over their customers who actually pay for the games, and wondering why we stop buying them.
No game should ever, ever, ever install a driver on a PC without asking and without making clear on the box that they will be doing so. Some of us use our PCs for real work as well as games, and the last thing I want is some stupid 'copy protection' driver screwing up my system.
1. Any good suggestions on what you'd like to see done better? Do you actually buy games which focus on elements that interest you? These companies will make more games in the same style of whatever sells well. Magazine or website reviews are a very good way of finding out if you'll like a game, before you buy it...
2. I hear this one a lot. I don't have any statistics on cost of making a game to hand, so I'll have to put my point another way. If you go out and buy a film on DVD, you'll watch it what, 3-4 times? Consider an average film at 90 minutes, that's 6 hours of entertainment for your $20 or so.
A lot of people (on forums) said they could complete Doom 3 in about 15 hours. Amazon.com lists Doom 3 at $40.99. So, for about twice the cost, you have two and a half times the entertainment, assuming you're good enough to play through it that fast (I'm sure not), and don't replay it.
Seems like good value to me. There have been simpler games which cost less (Serious Sam), but I don't think we're actually likely to see any serious price change any time soon.
3. I can't remember a game that has come without a manual, except for budget re-releases. As to a poster - I dunno, tended to just lose these myself, but can't really argue for or against.
4. Ah, like Valve are doing with Steam? I really don't see how that's better than making the disk uncopyable (I don't want to _have_ to be connected to the Internet to play multiplayer games across my LAN).
5. Yup, good plan there. Much better CD-key generation algorithms would also be a good plan - Doom 3's was cracked before it was even officially out, for example.
6. I used to see a lot of games that let you post in the old disks, and they'd send you new ones, but there was an admin charge of almost half the cost of the game. If they'd do it actually at cost (I mean, how much does it really cost to put a few CDs in the post), that would be much better.
7. I dunno, PDF on the CD just makes it easier for the pirates to read the manual, IMHO...
I'd like to mention before I continue, the next section is not specifically aimed at you, jonwil. I have no idea if you pirate games or not, and am not assuming either way.
What we really need is to get over this culture of "it's more expensive than I'd like, so it's okay to copy it". I see a lot of people complain that if they didn't pirate games, they wouldn't have so many games - y'know, computer games are not a right!
If companies see a game sell badly, but pirated a lot, they assume it's the pirates fault. If they see a game sell badly, but not pirated, they know it's something they've done, be it pricing or gameplay...
Oh, one last rant. I've known people who thought it was legal to copy a game and give it to their friends, as long as they didn't charge for it. I don't have the time to dig up a reference to the copyright laws, but trust me, it's not legal to do that!
Yeah because since the days of my Sinclair Spectrum when we copied software from audio tape to tape the computer games industry has really shrunk.
FFS, How the hell do these people get away with nodding, looking thoughtful and saying these things in an erudite fashion?
Back in the day, in the UK you sold ONE copy of a game per school, that's it (yeah we were all funding terrorism back then too). Since then no industries have shrunken as a result... not the aerospace industry, not the catering industry and sure as hell not the software industry.
We could get all melodramatic and start considering papers by Gerring on propoganda and the manipulation of the masses... lets just consider one thing.
The cornerstone of all propoganda is a kernel of fear. If X is allowed to continue Y will happen.
If software piracy continues then the quality of computer games will suffer.... I'm 35 and I've been told that exact same line since I was 13. The exact same line. In 22 years I've come to the conclusion it's not true. It's propoganda, it's tapping into an unfounded fear in the audience.
I was told the same about tape recorders and the music industry. I was told the same about video tape and the movie/cinema industry... all in over 2 decades, untrue. Propoganda.
If somebody tells you the sky is falling in, don't just take their word for it, look up yourself at the sky and ask yourself if it looks as if the sky is falling in.
"PC games will never go away, but if the market keeps shrinking due to the increasing ease of piracy... then the number and quality of games will almost certainly decrease."
Howabout, make good games and people will be less likely to copy them because they will actually want to support good games. I mean, you can't just throw in a few palm trees and call it "Battlefield Vietnam" as opposed to "1942". What next, paint everything beige and call it "Battlefield Desert Storm." Howabout "Battlefield: We'e running out of ideas." There are countless games like this, no new ideas no innovation. Just one recycled idea after another. The differences between Unreal 2K4 and Unreal 2K3 involved just making a bunch of new maps adding more trite phrases like, "Ownage!" Or howabout another Tom Clancy based Spy game. There's only so many ways you can make killing terrorists interesting. Oh, here's one last good idea. Let's take the most successful console FPS since Goldeneye, deley it's PC release for years. And, once everybody is sick of it, try to sell it on PC. My advice to game companies, get a fucking clue, people aren't buying your shit because it is shit. They'd rather play shit for free.
--
Adobe's anti-counterfeiting softw
"PC games will never go away, but if the market keeps shrinking due to the increasing ease of piracy... then the number and quality of games will almost certainly decrease."
... It goes something like this ... "If people couldn't setal our stuff, everyone would run out and pay cold hard cash; even if they had to sell their own plasma."
... they just don't have the money.
Hey All,
It seems to me that there is this myth in every market around the world
I pay for everything I use/enjoy. And I don't have a problem w/ ppl trying to secure their assets. I just think it's a bit naive to think that markets will explode in size as a result. Cause, if the youth doesn't have the money
Cheers,
--The Dude
"people who have money and don't have time to be jerked around with nonsense."
High five, low five, catch it on the rebound.
This is one of the first times that someone 'in the industry' has hit the nail on the head with regards to my personal experience of gaming; it's not that I'm short of the cash, I just really don't want to prop up a copy protection industry that has slimed into place based on the fact that piracy is happening, but the protestations have hit fever pitch because they can be tracked. It's like the figures that get promoted that X activity costs X dollars per year in lost revenues. Figures like that are fictional guesstimates that are intended to cause round-eyed disbelief in people that don't normally deal with _really big numbers_, especially connected with the idea that a downloaded game is a lost sale. It's horribly arrogant to assume that downloaded copy will survive a quick review or that the person downloading it would have bought the game if the download wasn't possible.
It's the PR spin that annoys me the most, both from the perspective of holding demos until after the release rush (early adopters get raped every which way, and it's mostly a peer issue), releasing buggy software to match a given release date, or buying advertising space and calling it 'reviews'.
It's gratifying to see someone _actually_ mention these things in relation to their own business, and while I have little use for the object desktop, the sheer display of Mr Wardell's ethics is enough for me to consider supporting his company.
Oddly Draconis
Too cynical to live, too stubborn to die.
..just check your windows\system32\drivers for secdrv.sys, set to auto-load and -execute on bootup.
Does any one know if the new SecuROM also uses kernelmode drivers?
Capitalization is the difference between "Helping your uncle jack off a horse" and "Helping your uncle Jack off a horse"
The message boards were filled with people complaining that Doom wouldnt load, or it always hung, some people were seeing video problems. The solution? Download the cracked version that removes the copy protection that was ruining peoples configurations. Many of these people claimed to not have Nero, Alcohol, or any other sort of burning utilities installed. Not only does this force people to run unsupported pirated copies, it also pisses off your fans. Carmack should be personally ashamed that his publishers put any sort of protection on his games. There are Doom fans all over the world who wont buy any future id projects. Hows that for future business? Bleagh.
"PERMITTED USES
1. If the Software is configured for loading on a hard drive, you may
install and use the Software on a single
computer.
2. You may make and maintain one copy of the Software for backup and
archival purposes, provided that the
original and copy of the Software are kept in your possession.
3. You may permanently transfer all your rights under this EULA, provided
you retain no copies, you transfer
all of the Software (including all component parts, the media and printed
materials and any upgrades) and the
recipient reads and accepts this EULA."
#2 maybe difficult
The interview mentioned that demos include this copy protection because the demo exes end up being very similiar to the final version's exes, meaning a potential cracker would have interest in the demo's executable files.
Unfortunately, the person interviewed said that agreeing the the EULA gives them permission to install their software without telling you. Legally they're right... but it's a bit of BS; I want to know what is installed on my machine, and I shouldn't have to wade through a thick license agreement to know precisely what's going on.
LegendMUD
Try that in 10 years, or when Blizzard has passed through 5 different companies (it could happen). Or, if you want the fun and excitement now, try to get a replacement copy of Pirates! or, if you lost the code wheel, Starflight. It won't happen, even if you paid for the copy legit.
if the aim is to stop the shrinking of the market... and the market is 60%+ made of programers... how exactly instaling a driver that keeps them from running debuggers on they very own machine will make they more likely to buy the crap game?
When windows 2000 came out I was like "thank god, now it's multi user". So I went to install everything as guest, so as to not hose the main machine. Needless to say it didn't work, as most things wouldn't install as guest, assuming that you'd install them as root.
When something is being installed little popup boxes should come up like "This application is trying to install something into the kernel, this is needed when installing hardware, as it needs to install a driver for the hardware, but if you are installing something other then the CD that came with a piece of hardware, then whatever this is that your installing has easy access to screwing up your machine.
Would you like to install it? "
The same goes for write acccess to all the differnt areas that they could be playing with libraries or whatever. Areas including who gets to write to the network! (say goodbye to addware).
Of course, this only works to notifiy people what they bought after they bought it. How do we people from buying stuff they refuse to use? Well if the copy protections working, these things should allow returns.
Hi, I'm the author. Please calm yourself and read this post with a clear mind.
First, to clear up some confusion regarding the interview:
I simply provided StarForce with an opportunity to voice their own opinions. I don't take their side, I do ask them tougher questions about how legitimate PC gamers feel it's unfair to not only to have to pay for the copy protection indirectly by purchasing the game, but to put up with the hassles. They gave their answers, that's all.
Then I look at this thread and I realize to my disappointment that most of you just don't you get it. It's all the same panicked, self-entitled, I'm-my-own-little-god-don't-step-in-my-universe whining. God forbid a publisher protect his investment on your PC. How dare he?
I'm sure most of you are conveniently forgetting the number of times you've pirated games - whether it's downloading warez, copying from a friend or copying FOR a friend.
Any arguments I've seen "for" the right to crack/warez games fall apart. Simple fact: you benefited from the hard work of the developer and publisher without due compensation. Price too high? Game sucked? Misleading system requirements? Too bad: caveat emptor.
How hypocritical Slashdotters are. When stories are posted of stupid lawsuits because someone was careless in purchasing or using a product and did themselves/their family harm, you jump all over them. High and mighty. Superior, intelligent, all-knowing.
Where are those attitudes when it comes to bragging to your friends about how you pirated a game because it was too expensive for what you'd get, or because it was buggy and you don't "feel" like paying for it. Then you complain when copy protection gets more intrusive and controlling. You made your bed, you sleep in it.
Fact is, we have this copy protection because we don't stop ourselves from pirating. Pure and simple. The culture of the PC gamer is disgustingly self-indulgent. Worse, it's spreading to console games.
Piracy has been accepted on the PC much longer because it's been around much longer. The first games weren't even commercial, they were sent across networks and transferred with disks. This acceptance of piracy has persisted through the years, every new gamer learning from the ones before him. "Oh everyone else does it." Well it's WRONG.
It's not like publishers are making billions off you by overcharing - and if they were, you could simply say "no, I'm not going to buy this." Yes, you want it, but that doesn't mean you deserve it for free.
I've gotten some of the most ridiculous pro-piracy arguments ever in email over the last day.
"Sometimes cracking copy protection is the only way to get it to run on Windows emulators on Linux"... er... just where did the publisher state that they support Linux? And how does this give you the right to steal their game?
"Game companies run out of CDs, so if you break/lose yours, you can't get new ones. Plus, you have to pay for shipping!" Right, and if I lose my car or smash it around the tree, the car manufacturer owes me one for free. No, I get it through insurance, which usually costs me more over the lifetime of the car than the car did itself.
"Game companies *GO OUT OF BUSINESS* sometimes. Try getting your original System Shock 2 CD's replaced." Right, this sucks. Part of the reason game companies go out of business is piracy. But moreover, I still fail to see how this entitles you to a new copy of System Shock 2 if YOU lost or broke your own. It's your property, be responsible for it. Your kid lost it or dog chewed it? I can't quite understand how this is the publisher's fault.
"When games get really old, usually one is forced to turn to emulation. However, *COPY PROTECTION MAKES EMULATION DIFFICULT*. This can lead to games being lost forever; this is happening to arcade machine games already." This is called obsolescence. Things become so old it's not worth supporting them. You don't see IBM supporting
I'm a little segfault, short and stout.
Ok so one thing stuck out at me the second I read it.
""Games are crap so often I don't want to get ripped off" - try reading reviews and playing demos. Besides, good luck getting a car dealership to refund you your money after you so much as signed the contract, never mind drove the car. Not all that many goods can be used and returned for your money back."
Actually I do believe Saturn, at least here in Canada, offers a no questions asked 30 day period where you can return the car. I remember a commercial where a lady had lost her job and could no longer afford the car so she returned it to the dealership, but in the end wound up buying a Saturn again because of their great customer service.
Anyways, that's beside the point. Frankly, reviews and demos aren't always the best indicator of how "buy-worthy" a game is. There's several factors you cannot determine from a demo. You cannot tell the length of the game for example, or if it would have any replay value whatsoever. You also can't really tell, through a short demo, whether the game is overly repetitive for the entire length of the game or not. Reviews also are not a great indicator. There have been games entirely trashed by the industry for having less than stellar graphics and poor sound, but even though the gameplay was absolutely stellar, it still got a crappy review. It's very hard to find a review(er) that will exactly match your personal tastes.
I'm not condoning piracy, or stealing money from the developers, but frankly, the prices of games are too ridiculously high for a casual gamer, which is a vast majority of the market. Maybe publishers need to take a back seat to the developers and let the developers actually have a good chunk of the profit earned from game sales. After all, it is their work, and maybe if the publishers weren't so damn greedy, they'd earn a bit more money from it.
I have about 20 games that I'm always swapping between and playing (don't ask), stuff like C&C Red Alert 2, C&C Generals, Max Payne2, Doom3, etc.. and I use Alcohol 120% to handle it all. And to this day I have never had a CD complain about Alcohol 120% being installed. I know some others haven't been as lucky. I have not played any games with this new StarForce protection (I was considering buying Prince of Persia, but forget it now) so I don't know what it will do exactly in regards to Alcohol 120% -- but if it does cause problems, you can be sure the usual channels (gamecopyworld.com, etc.) will be right there with no CD patches, and people will use them, even on their legit copies. Because game companies don't get it.
I won't even get into how SafeDisc/etc. slows down game performance, that's semi common knowledge by now.
Not All Who Wander Are Lost
Beyond Divinity Desert Rats vs. Afrika Corps XIII Dead to Rights Prince of Persia Sands of Time These were all games I might have bought out of the bargain bin at some point, but I won't touch them now. One piece of software has no right to prevent other software with legitimate uses from operating correctly on my computer. I don't even use Alcohol 120%, but when I had a notebook, I did use virtual CD software so I didn't have to carry a bunch of game CDs around with me wherever I went.
I'm a DoD Contractor, and every machine on this reserve base has a cd burner and Nero. We are also running SMS to ensure that ther are no gmaes on the PCs, not even solitaire or Minesweeper.
Nero has legitimate Realworld uses, it is a shame that the entertainment industry is so greedy that they are blind to any use but "piracy".
Legally they're right only if EULAs are enforceable, which is certainly debateable.
BTW, by reading this comment you have agreed to give me your first-born son.
It is completely unacceptable that a demo could install this dubious software
A game demo is supposed to allow a potential customer to learn how well the software will run on her computer. If the game includes obstructive copy-protection, the demo should too; otherwise it's false advertising!
By using the weird driver in the demo, at least buyers get a warning before PAYING for the thing.
I thought the whole point of a demo was to get wide distribution and a positive impression of your product.
Uh, no. Demos ideally shouldn't be trying for a "positive impression". First you should have a good product, and then a demo to give an accurate impression of the product- including how hard it is to get installed right on a PC.
By including the copy protection in the demos, the game publisher is upholding honesty; potential customers who dislike intrusive copy-protection are warned off from buying by their demo experience.
(Other motivations to include this kind of code in demos includes the abililty to turn off the demo after a year or so. If the demo is so much fun that people play it and don't even bother paying for the game, a publisher might want that ability)
Folks, it is only a matter of time before StarForce disappear off the face of the planet.
Right off from the first question they start spewing garbage from a technical persepctive.
Drivers cannot stop SoftICE from working, at best they can try to be aware of it and try to malfunction when they detect its presence.
Drivers can be uninstalled (the easiest method being to simply delete the file). Furthermore any activity of their driver can be spoofed by a replacement driver that just says everything is ok.
Their driver is a simple Windows IFS driver that filters filesystem calls (so called IRPs), probably based on hardware/process name. The reason they mess up people's USB drives is because they mis-detect them.
On the surface, it appears it would take only a couple hours for an experienced IFS driver writer to completely bypass their driver (probably along the lines of letting the driver run but ensuring it never gets to see any of the file system calls).
I'm willing to bet the only reason none of the games shipped with their product have been cracked has to do more with the lack of popularity of the games then with the copy protection.
"They won't buy the $50 game, but they will buy the $200 console and the $50 game?"
Welcome to 2004, when consoles are $130, and high-end graphics cards are $400.
Oh, and that nice shiny new PC that you spent $2,500 so you can play that $50 game? That $50 game will shit all over it to make sure that you don't pirate it.
hey, when you pay $50 to a whore, at least you understand the transaction. I pay $50 to a game company, it gives my PC the digital equivalent of the clap, and I don't even get satisfaction.