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Build Your Own Hybrid-Electric Car?
BlueJay465 writes "On almost every news outlet, everyone is talking about the price of oil, both foreign and domestic. This sent me to do some research on what it would take to keep the investment in my current vehicle, while getting the added benefits of hybrid-electric technology at the lowest price. One company, Sigma Automotive, has already jumped on that bandwagon, and will soon be offering a kit for your car engine that will boost performance and increase fuel-economy by adding all the extra electronics, hardware and capacity (avail. Q3-Q4 2004). My question is, how much would it cost to really 'Do It Yourself' using off-the-shelf parts?"
I read through their site, and while I am vaguely skeptical of things like the lifespan of the Super Capacitor Battery Pack and I2R losses system wide the basic theory is sound.
It seems like the product right now is targetted at people who want an extra 35 b.h.p. "off the line". And if you do a lot of stop-and-go driving, that could help a lot.
In my gut, I think a fully electrical transmission would provide better systemic efficiency, but that would be nowhere near a bolt-on system. (I base that on: the specific consumption of any I.C. engine is lowest when it is near it's peak output. Any system that is predicated on running the engine at variable speed (i.e. using a traditional mechanical transmission) is going to, by necessity, run the engine most of the time away from it's peak efficiency. I would be willing to hear the argument that the gain of running the engine at peak efficiency would be offset by the losses in the motor-generator pair. (If so, why has it been the standard technology in railway traction for over fifty years?)
How does the Slashdot Effect happen given that no slashdotters ever RTFA?
Cheers,
Erick
http://www.busyweather.com/
The toyata prius has a very special system that deals with this, as this page shows. Especially with hybrid SUV's coming out soon, building your own hybrid seems like it would be way too much work.
Also keep in mind, that right now making a hybrid car (for a major automanufacturer) costs several thousand dollars more than making an equivalent conventional car mostly because they don't have enough mass production on the hybrid parts, and they are making thousands and thousands of cars. Buying the parts individually, the price would be outragous.
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i get about 5 litres for a hundred kms, which is good, but driving in it is offputting cause it makes virtually no noise. the first few times were too wierd, and when you stop at lights it turns off completely as if you'd stalled (but hadn't).
-- robin.shannon.id.au This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Recombo Plus License.
The Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) Dragsters may not have an electric motor configured to add power to the wheels.
"He's a real midnight golfer"
Since the engine output is pulsed (a pulse happens with every power stroke) there is a ready supply of driving or excitation vibration which is just waiting to find the resonant frequency of the whole system.
And since the pulse frequency varies with the engine speed, you have a full range of driving frequencies to work with.
If the resonant frequency of the engine/gimler-belt/alternator system is outside the driving frequencies caused by the engine, everything is fine.
If not, the forces in the belt can become "Large"
:)
Here is an interesting related interview. Also check out the specs for these ultracapacitors. The key benefit of capacitors over batteries is in deep discharge, near instantaneous bursts of current. It takes the load off your bulk storage supply, allowing them to operate more efficiently.
I still can't buy a hybrid flexible fuel vehicle, so I can shift my usage over to a more renewable source. This system opens up some options though. I like!
Aside: The regenerative braking aspect of all hybrids is a hidden bonus for the wear on the mechanical systems too. I've had my hybrid for almost two years now and the brake pads aren't anywhere near their first 10% worn-down state.
--The more you know, the less you know.
It depends on how much DIY you are willing to tackle. I had to do a little googling but I located information on a DIY Hybrid that appeared in The Mother Earth News some years ago. Actually in 1979 with a followup in 1993. I purchased the plans and although I didn't get one completely finished, it's still a viable project. Actually applying an additional 10+ years of technology might make it easier &/or better. Try the following links as a starting point. The original article at: http://www.motherearthnews.com/index.php?page=arc& id=2263 and the followup at: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1279/is _n138/ai_13817084. A google search for ["mother earth news" hybrid electric car] yields about 350 links. Good luck.
But that is no worse than a belt driven supercharger, or a belt driven hydraulic power pack, both of which can be installed with no particular drama, and have about the same power rating.
BTW I used to tune the TV dampers on cars.
The block and crank and bearings were not strong enough for the much higher forces in a diesel engine, and the Olds diesel had poor reliability.
People who bought a Mercedes diesel did fine, but the money they spent on the car was never recovered in fuel savings.
People who bought a diesel volksvagen rabbit did fine too, but that car had poor acceleration, I've driven one, and merging onto the highway is not pleasant. Also, when replacing the oil filter, renember to torque it to 65 foot-lbs (or whatever it says in the service manual) or the gasket will blow out.
8^0
Shaving 3 seconds off of your 1/4 is pretty tough... 3 seconds off of your 0-60 is even tougher, unless you have a car that's REALLY underpowered to begin with.
Especially since the main advantage of electric motors is low-speed torque (good for rice rockets, not nearly as much improvement for monster V8s) - While an electric motor can make a HUGE difference at the very low end, that is also where traction is a large problem, nullifying much of the motor's advantage.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
for example:
2004 Lamborghini Gallardo 1/4 mile time is 12.40 seconds
1999 Honda Civic Si 1/4 mile time is 15.70
Imagine, with just this one device installed on a totally stock Honda, you can bring it into the same league as a Lamborghini...
has nothing to do with the mechanical brakes other than that it takes some of the load off them.
Remember that any DC motor can work equally well as a generator. In regenerative braking, the motor becomes a generator providing mechanical resistance to slow the vehicle and the energy produced is fed to the energy storage device, either batteries or super capacitor where it can later be recovered and used over.
Actually this is fairly common practice in certain types of traction (cabled) elevators where the motion of the elevator car, say, up in the case of an empty cab with counter-weights heavier than the cab, actually pushes power back into the 3 phase power lines. There are no big resistors needed to consume the energy produced when the drive motor becomes a generator. This is efficient in terms of energy consumption.
Mechanical brakes on elevators are normally set only after the cab is electrically stopped and held at floor level.
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
The University of Tulsa Hurricane Motor Works converted a Geo Metro as well as built several one-off concept cars from ground-up.
A look at the converted Geo is here. It was retitled the "Paradyne."
A much cooler looking HEV, though, is the Proxima, which was built ground-up. I was on the team that built and designed the car. The design and material cost for this car, being built from ground up (I kid you not. I remember nights out there with a heat gun, hot glue, and pipe making the frame and shaping the body) is way out there.
I don't remember the costs of the conversion for the Metro, since I wasn't involved, but someone interested in the numbers could certainly write and ask. Contact information is on our webpage, or you could IM me, and I could ask next time I am around the HMW.
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"We are Linux. Resistance is measured in Ohms."
According to Autotrader.com, I am supposed to get around 25 MPG with my 4-cyl 1994 Honda Accord, however I generally get about 29 to 31. This means I'm spending 20% less at the pump each month. If you spend roughly $100 a month on gas, this is a good way to save $20 ($140 a year!).
Yes, locomotives use a hybrid power system, but it's (usually) all based on electric conversion: The engine drives an alternator, and the power from the alternator drives traction motors (avoiding batteries). Dynamic regeneration is usually not used: when dynamic braking, all power from the traction motors are radiated out the dynamic braking grids as heat.
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If it sounds to good to be true, guess what.
And for regenerative braking you need an actual motor attached to the wheels.
Redesign the engine for better fuel efficiency.
:-) Thanks to the arrival of low-sulfur fuels, it means we can use the latest in ceramic catalytic converters that will also reduce exhaust emissions to Super Ultra-Low Emissions Vehicle (SULEV) levels without worries about sulfur compounds ruining the catalytic converter.
Thanks to the phasing in of low-sulfur gasoline (petrol) and diesel fuel here in the USA starting in 2005, we can apply the latest in fuel-delivery systems and exhaust emission controls to improve fuel efficiency AND reduce harmful exhaust emissions.
In the case of gasoline engines, the switch to direct fuel injection (where fuel is directly injected into the combustion chamber) could improve fuel efficiency in the range of 15 to 20 percent!
In the case of diesel engines, the arrival of low-sulfur diesel fuel means we can use common-rail direct fuel injection for very precise fuel delivery and also use the latest in diesel engine catalytic converters that will remove diesel exhaust particulates in addition to dramatically reducing other harmful exhaust gases. By switching minivans, SUV's and light trucks to these new cleaner diesel engines it means these class of vehicles can get 35-50 percent improvements in fuel efficiency compared to the current gasoline engines being used.
You aren't entitled to drive on public roads if you don't pay fuel taxes. Where I live, state and federal taxes on gasoline amount to 36.4 cents per gallon -- hardly a ripoff. (Find your state here.) If they were making him pay sales tax, that would be insane, but "fuel tax" is a misnomer. It's really road tax.
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The reason for having electric drive is simple once you realize the previous facts. First, there's simply a direct shaft from the engine to the alternator or generator (Trains can be both AC and DC). That means no gears at all, and no clutch or torque converter. The wires from our generator can run to the drive motors in any manner that they wish. Finally, they connect to the wheels directly, with no gearing. Note that the speed that the engine is turning is completely independent of the speed of the wheels. This allows improved efficiency, and it lets you have any torque at zero velocity. Furthermore, note that we also have maximum torque starting out, and trains really need it when someone decides to save money by putting fewer engines on a larger consist. Even though it suffers from all the inefficiency of the two conversions, it can always run at the engine's sweet spot. However, the fuel efficiency isn't as big of a problem as it seems. Once a train is rolling, they need very little power to keep it going. The fuel that is used in the engines is also not the kind of stuff that you would put in your car, or your tractor for that matter. It's like high-sulfur 30 weight, and it costs less than any other petroleum product short of road tar.
"Anyone who attempts to generate random numbers by deterministic means is living in a state of sin." -- John von Neumann
The inefficiency really stems from accelerating a 6,000lb vehicle up to 25mph, stopping, accelerating, stopping, etc. At idle, most modern engines are not abysmally inefficient but continuously accelerating a heavy vehicle with a large engine is where you lose most of your mileage to. But you're right, this thing should help dead stop acceleration fuel consumption, so long as it isn't snake oil.
Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
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So true....however....
In an SD70MAC, there are 12 wheels, which are still geared to the electric motors.
What makes the AC engine so neat is that they first generate AC power (all of them do) which is then converted to DC for control (don't know why they do this) and then converted back to AC. They do this because an AC motor can handle a stall without burning up, something HEAVY freights tend to have happen.
An SD70M (SD stands for "Special Duty", 70 was once the engine designation though I doubt that still applies, and the M is for widecab), uses DC motors, but still has AC alternators that are then converted to DC. The large radiator fans on the roof are resister grids to dissipate the excess power as well as cool the prime mover. When using regenerative braking (dynamics for railroaders), there motors are acting as generators, but the power has nowhere to go, so they go into a second set of resisters. When the DC motors stall, they heat up very quickly which can damage the windings.
Rolling resistance may be small, but the locomotove still have a huge job moving the trains along. They don't "just get moving", the have to deal with grades and curves which sap forward movement. If you have ever paced a heavy freight through hilly country, you would know how powerful these machine really are. There are few things as exciting as 24,000 hp throttling up to climb a grade.
Fritz
___________Huh?