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TiVo-like Application for XM Radio Under Fire
Strudelkugel writes "USA Today reports: 'Catching Blondie's reunion tour broadcast at 4 in the morning wasn't an option for XM satellite radio subscriber and single father Scott MacLean. "I was missing concerts that were being broadcasted when I was asleep or out," he said. So the 35-year-old computer programmer from Ottawa, Ontario, wrote a piece of software that let him record the show directly onto his PC hard drive while he snoozed.' As expected, the lawyers are coming out. Seems like a good idea, though. This capability might actually entice me to get an XM radio."
From the XM site itself...
The XM PCR revolution is in full effect. Across the XM Nation, we're excited to see independent developers creating fantastic new versions of the XM PCR software for a wide range of platforms including Mac OS X, Linux, and Windows.
So they want people to come up with creative software to use the XM PCR unit, but just not this way?...
A spokesman for the Recording Industry Association of America said his organization had not reviewed the software, but said that in principle it was disturbed by the idea. "We remain concerned about any devices or software that permit listeners to transform a broadcast into a music library," RIAA spokesman Jonathan Lamy said.
The RIAA and XM are both busy figuring out if any copyright laws and user agreements have been broken.
Nowhere in the article is there any mention of fair use rights or the legality of this sort of software. The RIAA is obviously very concerned about this, as it would definitely affect their willingness to release entire albums over the air. Blah.
My blog
XM (Delphi) is coming out with the Skyfi2 pretty soon, which will have TiVo-like qualities... you can pause the radio and play it later, up to 30 minutes. It's only a matter of time for other features to take off.
Since our air waves are ruled by the CRTC overlords, when did they allow XM to sell it's services.
From the XM FAQ
Is XM Service available in Canada and Mexico?
XM is only licensed to provide service to the US (All states except Alaska and Hawaii), its territories and adjacent waters. XM's satellite signal reaches into portions of Canada and Mexico near the U.S. borders however, XM's service is not currently sold in Canada, Mexico or any other region outside of the continental United States.
Sounds like a grey market resale. Similar to the DBS grey market. You get an US address and subscribe. Since the border is not microwave proof we can pick up the signals.
I think he should be more worried about the CRTC coming for him.
The audio is digital comming off the XM signal, but it's analog by the time it leaves the black box
there's a mod too add a TOSlink connector to the xm pcr, which provides digital out. i dont have it on mine, but according to some tests people did, it's slightly better than the line out, with less white noise.
If you get a PVR from Dish Network (they now carry Sirrus) you can already grab digital music... does that mean I should be wary of a subpoena now?
I usually just pause the station for 50 or 60 mins before I listen and then just FF through the songs I don't like. I don't feel like a criminal
They knew the sticky legal situation that would occur if they developed this, so they just left that to someone else. Now they have what I would consider a "killer app" for satellite radio without legal reprecussions. I'm even considering getting a home xm unit because of this, I already have it in my car.
Dear XM,
Over the past few months, I have been evaluating purchasing and subscribing to a satellite radio service. I have been weighing pros and cons of both yours and the Sirrius service. I mostly came up with even hands. However, your recent disappointing legal actions against Scott MacLean have helped me make my final decision. I will not be purchasing or subscribing to any XM satellite radio service, and I will encourage my friends and neighbors to avoid your service as well.
Thanks for your help,
Jeff
Exactly. Which explains why the music industry was utterly destroyed by the cassette recorder, and finished off by ISA FM radio cards.
One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
It's not for XM (yet), but I wonder how the RIAA feels about the Griffin Radio Shark?
They'll probably ignore it until there's a PC version.
Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?
Get a satellite DVB card for your computer.
Get program http://audiorip.dvbnetwork.com/
Point your dish to one of the DISH networks satellites or BellexpressVU.
I'll record radio stream directly to your computer. You can record multiple audio channels at the same time if they're in the same satellite transporder. And if you put the magic software that decripts the nagra encryption. then you can get the sirius radio channels and do exactly the same.
XM already has a product that allows time-shifting, although only for 30 minutes. It seems they're fully in support of your rights, as long as they get to control them. http://www.delphi.com/news/pressReleases/pr29451-0 8182004
Don't know; Don't care; Don't ask
This is what kills me about all digital music... People frown on cassettes and analog records, but will happily listen to crappy MP3s... You can defeat *any* DRM by using a cable that goes from your line-out jack to your line-in jack. The horror of sound degradation from that method is not going to compare to how crappy you make the MP3 sound anyhow, so what's the big deal?
Of course, most of the music I listen to (bad punk) was probably recorded in a garge with a condenser mike on a Panasonic Slim-line, so I don't really have any audiophile legs to stand on...
Dude, I think I can see my house from here.
Except we told Digital Convergence to FOAD in the CueCat: case and they did. Specifically I told them to "Come get some" and they never took me up on the offer.
http://beau.org/~jmorris/linux/cuecat/
Democrat delenda est
b) Use Limitations.
You may not reproduce, rebroadcast, or otherwise transmit the programming, record the programming, charge admission specifically for the purpose of listening to the programming, or distribute play lists of the programming. Notwithstanding the provisions of Section 9*, we or any of our programming partners may prosecute violations of the foregoing against you and other responsible parties in any court of competent jurisdiction, under the rules and regulations of the FCC, and other applicable laws. Subscription to the Service does not grant you the right to use any of our or our partners' trademarks.
So - does this trump Fair Use or what? Obviously complicated by the whole Canada thing - but what about here?
9. RESOLVING DISPUTES.
In order to expedite and control the cost of disputes, you agree that any legal or equitable claim relating to this Agreement, or the Service (referred to as a "Claim") will be resolved as follows:
c) Exceptions.
Hmm - given enough recordings, we can find sections without the 'chatter' and reconstruct the entire song.
Unless of course they actively distort the songs audio at start and end (think vocoder or something), but then, that would come across as extremely strange wouldn't it.
Wonder if the typical slashdotter is starting to get the picture of why the NRA gets wigged out when gun registration is mentioned??? Besides, would XM turn over their customer list if some scumbag lawyer asked for it?
A Shadeless room is a brighter room.
Not breaking a law... instead, the XM Terms of Service...
b) Use Limitations.
You may not reproduce, rebroadcast, or otherwise transmit the programming, record the programming, charge admission specifically for the purpose of listening to the programming, or distribute play lists of the programming. Notwithstanding the provisions of Section 9, we or any of our programming partners may prosecute violations of the foregoing against you and other responsible parties in any court of competent jurisdiction, under the rules and regulations of the FCC, and other applicable laws. Subscription to the Service does not grant you the right to use any of our or our partners' trademarks
'Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?'
actually, if you watch the datastream coming down, the song metadata changes at semi-random intervals either bofore or after the audio stream begins.
same effect, you lose either the first few or last few seconds of every song if you follow the metadata.
that being said, i think XM rocks!
I don't see why anyone is so upset about this. I already do this with Sirius Satellite Radio.
All Sirius subscribers have a login and password so they can stream Sirius channels over the internet when they're away from their satellite tuners (at work, in a different room of the house, etc...) I just start the stream and set a timer on one of the many OS X programs that does timed recordings of whatever's playing through the audio channel. I wake up and in a few minutes convert it (depending on the program I use) and move it to my iPod for listening on the train on the way to work.
I don't have XM, so I don't know if this method is also possible with it. If so, then the lawyers simply can't stop this.
World's tallest building rises in the desert
The fear, according to the article, is that people will use this system not merely for "time shifting," but to amass a huge music library. The latter doesn't fall under fair use at all.
There's a professor here at the U of U who teaches a "Digital IP Law" class, and who seems to have done a lot of the thinking behind the INDUCE Act. So I decided not to take the class, for fear of the whole thing turning into a Slashdot-esque flame war where my GPA was on the line. But one interesting point he tried to drive home in some of his online material was that Sony vs. Betamax's "substantial non-infringing use" test should be invalid, because there was no way a recording/copying device could ever fail the test.
I've been beating my head against a wall trying to come up with a counter-example. Any ideas?
You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!
What much more interesting is that this same guy has written an ActiveX component which you can use to write more applications like his -- and which is free for non-commercial use. Hackers, start your editors!
Just as a point of interest, DirecTiVo -- the combination of TiVo and DirecTV -- won't allow you to record the 40 or so music channels. It's probably the same irrational people. When XM does allow recording, they'll do it in such a way that they can block it for selected shows.
Ummm, I would point out that no court case has shown that it is legal to amass a music library that way. In fact, all Sony vs. Betamax showed was that the manufacturers of recording devices weren't responsible for their customers' abuses.
Get it straight: The guy who wrote the software should be cleared under SvsB. The folks who abuse it, however, are protected only by their relative anonymity.
You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!
For those of you that don't know, you can also get a PCR modded to include TOSLINK Digital Out. I have one and it sounds very good, although the XM music feeds are not nearly CD quality (as other Slashdotters have already pointed out), and the talk radio sound quality is sometimes pretty bad due to the amount of compression they use.
tradition in the US.
In the early part of the twentieth century, a fellow by the name of Anthony Comstock gained extrordinary powers using a similar tactic to that used by the RIAA today, ie a moral crusade against vice. Instead of thieving child porn traders Comstock was convinced obscenity and birth control would destoroy the nation.
Comstock's enormous power came from the creation of a private organization called the New York Society for the Supression of Vice. Eventually, this private organization was allowed to place officers in US Post Offices to read through the mail looking for obscenity. This had nothing to do with the law per-se, he was simply well connected and feared.
So, in the US it is quite possible, and even normal for a non-governmental agency to take on police powers despite the fact that this does not seem to make sense under law.
another case of cooperate america protecting what is "thiers" at the consumers cost. No matter what way you look at it the end user always gets f'd in the a. Thats american buisness nowadays.
to amass a huge music library. The latter doesn't fall under fair use at all.
Really? And why not? I don't recall anything from the Betamax case, or from any other court case, to indicate you somehow commit copyright infringment if you play it a second time. And unless I'm mistaken the Betamax case did directly acknowledge that many of the people involve were keeping "libraries" of tapes. The Betamax judges never suggested that that was infringment.
Sony vs. Betamax's "substantial non-infringing use" test should be invalid, because there was no way a recording/copying device could ever fail the test.
I've been beating my head against a wall trying to come up with a counter-example. Any ideas?
His conclusion does not logically follow. Even if we accept his assumption that no device would ever fail the test that in itself is NOT evidence that the test is invalid. *HE* is the one who needs to produce a "counter-example" and explain how it proves the court ruling is invalid.
Copyright exists to promote new creation and new technology and progress in general. It does NOT give copyright holders the right to restrict technology and restrict devices and restrict independant creation and restrict progress.
Copyright is not, and should not be, about devices and technologies themselves.
Copyright holders are given the right to sue those who infringing, or those who intend to cause infringment and the like. For example someone was held liable for manufacturing videotapes specifically tailored to match the length of copyrighted works and specifically intended for mass producing infringing copies of those works. The devices themselves - tapes of those specific lengths - were not against the law. Other people remain perfectly free to make and sell those exact devices.
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
he used to run an excellent email service for people with cell phones called dogphone. Really miss the service. I can't say I'm so keen on the XM Radio though - at least not yet anyway.
If this program, legal as it is, can withstand the judicial extortion just launched, the world's four music publishers will have to accelerate things and that could be a serious set back to them. Chances are that they will move right to content free, commercial radio right away. This might impede the transition to a subscription model. That's where cable TV is today, right? Can you tell me that it's any better now than broadcast TV used to be? Oh, poor greed heads, trapped between current music models and taking it to the next level: subscription based, DRM'd broadcasts.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I satisfied my term agreement a few months ago... while the service is nice, I will not support, financially or otherwise, illegal activities on the part of XM or RIAA. This guy is selling an enabler for Fair Use. Nothing wrong with that. If you make his software illegal, you have to make tape recorders, computers, and anything else that can make an analog recording, illegal as well..
Indeed, were the times that different?
:
http://www.colonialhall.com/hancock/hancock.php
says of those times
"and the counsels of her statesmen were employed to keep them in humble subjection. This was the object, when royalty grasped at their charters; when restrictions were laid upon their commerce and manufactures; when, by taxation, their resources were attempted to be withdrawn, and the doctrine inculcated, that it was rebellion for them to think and act for themselves."
As an aside to this discussion of MP3 quality, I have notice (and I am sure others have too) that certain songs encode horibbly in MP3 (even with much tweaking of bitrates, etc). A good example of this Layla by Eric Clapton, it seems that background percussion starts to modulate the whole song (and no I was not on drugs at the time). Does anyone know of a website that gives suggestions for these tough nuts?
"Just remember, it takes a village idiot." -- The Motley Fool.
I wonder, though, that since courts have already determined that recording for personal use is still protected, can the XM ToS legally revoke that right from you? I mean, they could claim that by listening to their service I'm consenting to anal sex with their CEO, but that doesn't make it legally binding.
do not read this line twice.
I'm reading on the forums at XMFan.com that XM will stop selling the USB-based PCR radio altogether, largely because of this software.
1) that sucks, 'cause I wanted to figure out how to integrate the PCR into my in-house MP3 network, and
2) it's crazy that they stop selling a product just because a small number of purchasers are doing something they don't like with it.
I wonder how long it'll be before someone figures out how to modify the car tuner (XM Direct, if it ever ships) to be computer controlled...
Anyway, I just thought I'd mention it. I haven't seen official confirmation (it's still on the XM website, for example), but the mods on XMFan seem to be in the know, and they're saying it's true.
*sigh*
XM has a low-pass filter that cuts out everything above 15 KHz, in order to mask compression artifacts. Listen to a song on XM, then listen to the same song on CD, and you'll hear a difference - the entire top end is missing on XM.