Tech Support Levels Dropping

NeoPrime writes "USA Today is reporting on the growing concern of the language barrier, when it comes to tech support. It appears that each year it is becoming more compelling to companies to reconsider the use of overseas help desks. According to this story, based '[o]n a 10-point scale, the average level rated by desktop owners dropped from 7.0 in 2003 to 6.3 this year; notebooks fell from 7.2 to 6.1.'"

Comments

Free Market Capitalism

[SirStanley]

The curse of free markets is that things like Out sourcing can happen, taking american jobs away. However, the market has ways of resolving things it self. You take a relatively minimaly skilled job like Tech support, ship it over seas to even cheaper labor and you get your ass bitten.

What has happened here is the market provided a cheaper means, but at a cost (Customer satisfication) so hopefully, companies will fix this problem by moving these jobs back to where ever they originally were.

Re:Free Market Capitalism

[PainKilleR-CE]

Why is it ok to import sneakers and t-shirts from cheap Phillipine workers and importing "office jobs" is not?

Not to mention things like ketchup...
Anyway, the reason it becomes an issue here is because a good number of people that sit at their desk reading Slashdot all day are tech support people. The jobs have the same level of turnover and pay roughly the same in the US, but some people still prefer a shitty low-paying job at a desk to a shitty low-paying job behind a counter or stove, and almost all people would prefer a shitty low-paying job behind a desk to looking for a new job with that shitty low-paying job on their resume.

Re:Free Market Capitalism

[jlusk4]

The new geeks in India aren't *just* buying their electronics from Asia.

Presumably, they dine out more often.

Or, they hire cooks, maids, drivers.

They buy nicer and more clothes, which, even if not manufactured locally, are delivered by local truckers and stevedores and sold by people working in retail outlets.

They build bigger houses and pay more taxes.

Presumably, they give more to charity (based on what I've heard about lower-income and formerly-lower-income people in the U.S. tending to give more to charity than upper-income folks, as a percentage of income).

And, when their countries threaten nuclear war w/each other, the big multinationals call 'em up and say "Friends, we're going to have find another back office if you're going to do that."

So, we're exporting jobs, opportunity, world peace, hope, Mom and apple pie. Who could argue with that? Think of the children!

Ok, so I got progressively more sarcastic in the preceding paragraph, but seriously.... It's like giving blood. You lose some, the other party gets what they need.

That's not to say it isn't painful. And it is sure irritating when you see those gains go into some corrupt person's pocket. But you have to hope humans' universal desire for justice will eventually prevail (and corruption will be eliminated), as more and more countries get with the "civilized society" program. (I equate civilization with compassion, not just politely ripping somebody off.)

Here's another angle on corruption, from the economic point of view: it's friction, isn't it? Businesses would prefer not to pay bribes, I bet. Or rather, they'd prefer to keep their expenses predictable, and not greater than their competitor's expenses (i.e., some semblance of "fair").

So, I think the question is not "how can we stop this?" but rather "how can we help this along, so things become fair more quickly?"

Is it better to say "you can't have our jobs until your environment is clean" or is it better to say "here, have some jobs; now please take your new money and spend some of it on cleaning up your environment and implementing new laws"?

Gee, I hope this wasn't a page of nothing. Sorry if it was.

John.

Eh, it's a trade off.

[garcia]

You take a relatively minimaly skilled job like Tech support, ship it over seas to even cheaper labor and you get your ass bitten.

Eh, I worked in tech support. The English native speakers are equally as worthless as those that are ESL overseas workers. It's basically a trade off for the most part.

From my personal experience the ESL workers have more technical experience and end up being able to do something for you even if it takes longer for you to get your point across. The native English speakers suck at understanding your point AND they suck at the technical side of things.

$9.00/hr jobs with shitty benefits (if any at all) to put up w/raving assholes bitching at you because your Internet connection is down isn't worth it for most people that have a clue (unless they are college students that need a flexible schedule).

and it's not just the language barrier

[katdesign]

There's a cultural one too. Depending on the problem, users will expect empathy from the other side. With cultural differences, that gets harder. As a European, I've had to call a few US helpdesks in the past, and it's just not the same. You'd expect it to be ok, but i guess Americans just have a different method of social interaction than us Europeans.

More dumb users

[nuggz]

Tech support is expensive.
Users are getting dumber and calling tech support for things they shouldn't.

Ever hear of someone calling their ISP to help them clear disk space to install the ISP software?
They can just hang up (frustrated customer)
Or they can help the customer, this is expensive, so get a lower level cheaper tech to do it.

That being said I rarely call tech support for anything other then my ISP is broken. Even then I've just about given up, when I telnet to the smtp port on my mailserver and it replies with an error message, they want me to reboot my computer.

Is it really the offshoring?

[nial-in-a-box]

Frankly, I don't think that any company that supports Windows XP based PCs could possibly offer a satisfactory level of technical support. I am currently providing technical support on a college campus during move-in and what I am seeing nearly has me in tears. Malware was just starting to become critical during last year's move-in, but this time around it is simply shocking. I have seen countless brand new computers that are already impossibly crippled.

What upsets me so much about this is not that Microsoft sucks at writing secure, reliable software but rather that there are so many people that are so willing to exploit it. Considering how many unique exploits there are on Windows XP, I feel that regardless of secure we think that Linux or BSD or Mac OS X may be, that if they had the dominant market share in their current state there would also be a large number of malware apps running wild on those platforms.

When you consider that it takes a significant amount of time to diagnose and resolve malware issues properly over the telephone, it immediately becomes impossible to offer good technical support. Sure, there are other key issues, such as outright hardware failure, but when malware is slowing down the machine average call time automatically increases. So unless your policy is to shaft users (and their data) and tell them to reformat/reinstall/use the restore CD right off the bat, or you are willing to pay what it really takes to have enough reps to help your customers, then there is absolutely no way to provide satisfactory technical support. Not in California, not in Canada, not in India.

Re:getting paid to call hell

[analog_line]

I completely concur. Right now I do work as a hourly computer consultant (or "tech support for hire" as I like to call it) and I charge full hourly rate for all time on the phone to the useless tech support people, which only really happens with Internet stuff generally, as I generally build all the machines my clients use myself.

We do no advertising, and even then we have more work than we can handle sometimes, just through word of mouth. Personally, I hope computer stuff gets more and more compliacted and touchy, because that means more money for me. Plumbers make a damn good living, and I don't see why I don't stand to do much the same, seeing as the plumbing I work on is way more complex and far more prone to break down.

It's the knowledge, not the accent.

[dpbsmith]

Most of my nontechnical acquaintances are savvy enough to select "help" from a menu or read the glossy "getting started" summary card packed at the top of the box. If Clippy has the answer for them, they don't call tech support.

The problem is not whether the person on the phone has a detectable accent or a professional demeanor. The problem is that for the last five years, tech support people, foreign or domestic have been human versions of Clippy. Only with fewer preprogrammed answers. The problem is that in so many cases they appear to be reading from a top forty FAQ sheet and cannot solve any problem that the average user can't solve themselves.

I'm happy with anyone who actually solves my problem, and I'll be most other customers are, too.

Re:getting paid to call hell

[twbecker]

While I agree that the language barrier can only hurt tech support, I think people have forgotten how bad it was even when it was onshore. The salaries were still pretty low and the skill level of the support people reflected that. Think about it, tech support horror stories have been around much longer than the off-shoring trend. The fact that they're in India now just adds insult to injury.

IT support, admin and helpdesks, Bill's legacy

[alwynschoeman]

Every day I am amazed at the lack of skill and knowledge in IT personnel. 9 out of 10 of them should never have been a sys admin, programmer or support person.

I think Microsoft is largely to blame. When people leaving school suddenly awakened to the fact that you don't just get handed a well paying job, Microsoft were pushing MSCE, etc. on the technically challenged masses.

In the end only Microsoft gained. The masses eventually got paid less because of the laws of supply and demand, but still companies felt that they were bestowed with armies of skilled people certified 'smart' by Microsoft.

Actually the armies of idiots might be the one thing that gives Microsoft staying power in companies. Migrate to Linux? Unless you re-hire your whole IT department you are in big troubles.
At least your department will be much smaller.
If you cannot even manage something you are certified for, what about something that actually requires a brain. Now make that idiot a manager and it becomes impossible.

I must apologize for using 'idiot', its a relative thing. I am smart in technology, but an idiot when it comes to stuff like financial investment, legal matters, fixing cars, etc. See, no harm done.

Now helpdesk personnel need to be patient. Thats where the Filipino's shine, pleasant and patient, but not very smart on the technical stuff no matter what they tell themselves.

I guess its a catch 22, very few tech savvy people will work in a helpdesk. Maybe it will be the first true mass market for good AI?

Re:IT support, admin and helpdesks, Bill's legacy

[Mitleid]

How can you honestly say Microsoft is to blame for the sad state of the IT admin and tech support fields? It's not like Microsoft FORCED companies to accept their MSCEs; business owners and IT managers were the ones who figured it'd be a good idea to let a private company determine the education requirements for the IT employees. Micrsoft just rode the wave and laughed all the way to the bank.

The state of "mainstream" IT in the U.S. seems to be more systematic than anything. Business owners and their advisors have gotten it into their head that "official" certifications are what qualifies one for a position, not actual technical knowledge. It functions the same way as the U.S. education system; some of the DUMBEST people I've known were straight A students, but I'm sure with an educational record as "impressive" as a college degree and even graduate school (*shudder*) they'll have no trouble at all finding a job or getting into college/graduate school. Colleges are just making a killing by riding on the blind faith business managers give to college degrees. So is Microsoft. Don't blame them; blame your boss(es).

Re:again he misses the point though...

[PainKilleR-CE]

I'm already making plans for my girlfriend and I to move out of california now since it's just too expensive and there are increasingly less and less tech jobs here.

Believe me, you'll be happy you did, and not because there are any more tech jobs outside of California than in (though there may be because companies are leaving CA for the same reason people do). Instead, it will simply be because you can actually afford to live on the same (or lesser) pay. At least, as long as you don't move to New York or somewhere with a similarly high cost of living.

The division seems to be between people who own a home and those who don't. Everyone I see who doesn't own a home here already is struggling and the ones who do are taking vacations. I've pulled out my savings to go on 'vacation' to the east coast to look for work.

This is simply because those that own a home either bought at a lower price than is currently demanded, or can actually afford a home at current prices. Even those with homes are often taking out 2nds on their home to live their lives and take their vacations.

Before I left California the paper had a front-page story on a Habitat for Humanity house that was selling for $250K to a qualified low-income buyer, and housing prices have continued to go up since then. For $250K in some areas around here (Hampton Roads, VA) I can have a very nice house on a substantial piece of land, or a nice house on a smaller piece of land (depending on how close I want to be to work, basically; and that smaller piece of land is bigger than anything in a CA suburb).

Re:getting paid to call hell

[jonnystiph]

so there you were, thinking yourself really tough, making fun of some poor sod in an out-source callcenter who never quite got the training from the not-to-be-named company to really do the job well, who can do absolutely nothing but follow a couple of silly script lines and who gets paid shit to swallow yours? bravo!

Bravo yourself! Not in the sarcastic context either. I am so glad that someone brought this up. Call centers are crap. Tech support is hard work, espicially over the phone, and espicially considering these are entry level tech jobs. How many people have worked a Tier 1 phone support job and had a fair-good understanding of correct T-shooting techniques of computers.

Now, I am a unix admin. At one time not too many years ago, I was that asshole on Tier-1 support that knew enough about customer service to keep you from hating the company, but not nearly enough about your computer to keep you hating me. Please people, these are just people that need to keep a job, just like anyone else. Yes, you know more than them, big fucking deal. There are plenty of people out there that know more than you. That and there are plenty of people that could turn your body into pulpy mass, but hopefully they don't. There are laws against physically abusing someone, but none to protect from mental abuse. This job is hard enough, let them and thier shoddy training be, ask to be esecalated, chances are you can and will be.

just my $.02