Electromagnetic Suspension System

chuckgrosvenor writes "Every automotive suspension has two goals: passenger comfort and vehicle control. Unfortunately, these goals are in conflict. Two much comfort, and the car rolls and pitches a lot, too much control and you feel every bump. BOSE has found the happy medium by using electromagnetic motors, power amplifiers, & computer control algorithms to even out the road, while still feeling connected to it. Check the quicktime movies to see two different cars stay level while they go through cornering exercises." Reader gatekeep writes "Amar Bose, founder of the Bose Corporation and MIT professor and alumnus, has recently unveiled a new electromagnetic car suspension system. It's said to have taken 24 years to develop. There's only minor technical details available so far, but the author of this piece describes seeing the system allow the test vehicle to jump over obstacles in its path!"

Comments

Amazing

[crtfdgk]

Despite how critical I am of developments like this, I have to say that those videos and the pictures are amazing. This technology could actually be implemented, it seems ready by the look and tone of the article, and thats pretty rare on Slashdot. Most newer technologies featured on /. always seems unlikely and full of holes, but this one seems a lot more solid.

Like the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words. I'd say the video more like a million. And those pictures show quite a bit. Plus the over-exposed headlights picture is a pretty cool way to demonstrate within a picture. But of course the video shows it all. And i think its amazing.

Just my two cents.

Re:Amazing

[fakeplasticusername]

Most newer technologies featured on /. always seems unlikely and full of holes, but this one seems a lot more solid.

I think its partially because it isn't among the usual triumvurate of slashdot stories regarding technology; power generation, revolutionary computer tech, and bio/nano tech. If this site was more slanted to automotive news, we would have heard about this story sometime last year, the details would be spotty, and the evidence would be missing. Slashdot will usually report auto news if it involves some part of the triumvurate (nano-tech coating, hybrid cars, electric cars, etc).

Not that i'm bashing automotive news, i'm just offering an explanation.

Re:Amazing

[chuckgrosvenor]

Actually you only heard about it today, because today was the first day it appeared on the corporate website. A friend of mine at Bose has been talking about this ever since he started working there. It looks pretty cool, but the Boston Globe reported it might cost around $20K US. I also got the impression that high speed (over 60 mph) performance wasn't going to be as perfect.

Still, if it makes down to the cheaper vehicles in five or ten years, it might make everyday driving far more pleasant. Certainly the first major improvement in suspension in several decades.

Re:Amazing

[aspx]

I drive a car with an air spring suspension (instead of traditional coil spring). Air suspension has a lot of advantages, like load leveling and the softest spring rate for a given load, which translates to a smooth ride. For these benefits, I pay increased maintanance costs. The air springs require periodic replacement, as do the mechanical and electronic components of the system. I recently payed $600 for a repair.

Electromagnetic suspension is a step forward for ride quality, but it will come at a price. You'll have to decide if the benefits are worth the increased costs. With the marketing genius of Bose, I predict this system will soon debut on flagship luxury cars.

Re:Amazing

[jcr]

It looks pretty cool, but the Boston Globe reported it might cost around $20K US.

VCRs used to cost over five grand, and that was in 1973 dollars.

Once you start building anything in million-lot quantities, the prices plummet.

-jcr

Like

[OverlordQ]

the rest of Bose things it will probably come WAY overpriced.

Here He Comes!

[elmegil]

the author of this piece describes seeing the system allow the test vehicle to jump over obstacles in it's path!

Mach 5! Yeah!

First Suspension

[paul248]

Here's a pretty cool video about the brand new suspension systems of 1938:
http://www.archive.org/details-db.php?mediatype=mo vies&identifier=OvertheW1938

Old news

[pyrrhonist]

In one final display that left onlookers speechless yesterday, the company showed how the suspension system can be coaxed into jumping -- yes, jumping -- over obstacles in its path.

This is nothing new. The Mach 5 had this in 1966.

This "new" system doesn't even have a kid and a monkey in the trunk, let alone make the "ch-ch-ch-ch" sound.

I wonder if...

[shfted!]

... one could route the bass frequency from one's car stereo into the suspension to get that extra bass feel?

It would sure beat doing the brake-gas tap dance to headbang in sequence with the music while driving :D

Gives New Meaning...

[MBCook]

Gives new meaning to the phrase "No highs, no lows... it's Bose" doesn't it.

I like Bose personally. To bad a system like this would be expensive (at least for a few years untill mass production made it more reasonable). Guess that means that unless I strike it rich and can buy a fancy car that would include this (I assume this would be on BMWs or Mercedes), my car will be bouncing on bumpy roads. I'd love to try driving one though.

Re:*sigh*

[stubear]

Add this to an existing car? They'll be asking how they cn make this themselves from off the shelf parts and old stereo systems, all running Linux of course.

This sounds cool...

[foxtrot]

From my amateur race car driver's perspective.

Imagine putting the crew chief in the car-- and basically replacing him with a very small shell script.

Is the car pushing on entry? Back off the front repulsors a few volts. Dial a volt or two into the back... Adjust wedge on the fly.

And the sick thing is, you don't even have to make the driver do it. A few sensors on various wheels and currently available computing horsepower and it'll know on its own. A car that dynamically adjusts itself to optimal handling as the weather changes, the track temperature changes, the fuel load changes, the tires lose grip.

-JDF

Re:This sounds cool...

[Osty]

Imagine putting the crew chief in the car-- and basically replacing him with a very small shell script.

Bad idea. No shell script can ever hope to compete with a properly experienced crew chief. Look at pros like F1 teams, where they have all of the wizbang gadgetry you could ever want (telemetry is cool!), and they still have crew chiefs. I could see this being useful for limited applications in a very amateur setting, but anything more serious would require a crew chief with knowledge.

Is the car pushing on entry? Back off the front repulsors a few volts. Dial a volt or two into the back... Adjust wedge on the fly.

Worse idea. The last thing you want to be doing during a race is making adjustments on the fly like that. Ignoring the logistics of how you'd do it (limited mobility within a cockpit, even of a touring car), trying to decide if you need to dial up two volts or three, or if you should be dialing down, or if you even have the right dial is not a good idea. If you have time to do anything more than glance at your tach (and often, you shouldn't even need that, instead trusting engine sound to tell you when to shift), you're not driving fast enough. This will not make you more competitive, and will add quite a few more possible points of failure.

And the sick thing is, you don't even have to make the driver do it. A few sensors on various wheels and currently available computing horsepower and it'll know on its own. A car that dynamically adjusts itself to optimal handling as the weather changes, the track temperature changes, the fuel load changes, the tires lose grip.

What is optimal handling? Such a system would need a very configurable interface, because no two drivers prefer the same setup. You may like a car that "pushes" (or "understeers", as we non-NASCAR fans like to say), while I may like a car that's "loose" (or "oversteers"). Guess what? That requires a lot of setup beforehand, and will change from track to track so you'll spend much of your available pre-race practice time monkeying with electronics same as you would monkeying with mechanical suspensions. That goes back to the first point, where you will still need a good crew chief.

Finally, this can only compensate for variables that a suspension can affect. If my brakes start to fade late in a race, there's nothing the suspension can do about it. Same for losing aerodynamic pieces of the car. I also wouldn't trust it with unexpected track surface problems (oil or other fluid spills in the race line, dirt or gravel pulled onto the track from off-track excursions, marbles when you have to go off-line for a pass or to avoid a collision, the changing amount of rubber left on braking zones and turns, etc). The transition would have to be completely smooth, and the driver would need a lot of seat time with the system under such conditions to learn what it does in such a scenario. Worst case, you'll lose control of the car because you were expecting it to handle one way, and the suspension changed right out from underneath you.

The way of electronic steering?

[Judg3]

All I hope is that this system isn't TOO good. Take electronic sterring - worked great, but people hated it. Why? It's was to good, too "disconnected", you couldn't 'feel' the road under you - it made people uneasy, like they where floating.

Likewise, if this system is so good, so good in fact that people literally don't feel the road at all, they'll shy away from it. There's just something weird about driving and not being able to feel the road under you - it's like being disconnected, giving you a feeling of not being in control.

(Electronic systems tried to compromise by adding force feedback, but it was to late by then)

Re:The way of electronic steering?

[Grishnakh]

All I hope is that this system isn't TOO good. Take electronic sterring - worked great, but people hated it. Why? It's was to good, too "disconnected", you couldn't 'feel' the road under you - it made people uneasy, like they where floating.

Do you have any links? I've never heard of this (I assume you're talking about fully-separated drive-by-wire steering, with no mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the front wheels).

Your reasoning is suspect, however. If it worked as you say, it should have been an instant hit in large American luxury cars. Ever driven a Lincoln Town Car (specifically, an early 90's model; it may have changed since then)? I drove one once, and the power steering was so overboosted that there was almost no feedback at all. It felt like driving those older arcade driving games that had no feedback.

Likewise, if this system is so good, so good in fact that people literally don't feel the road at all, they'll shy away from it. There's just something weird about driving and not being able to feel the road under you - it's like being disconnected, giving you a feeling of not being in control.

A system with no feedback isn't "good". It's absolutely dangerous. Since you can't guarantee that the steered wheels will always steer the car in the intended direction, and that there will never be a loss of traction, feedback is necessary to compensate. This is true of both human-controlled and computer-controlled systems, and is a basic fundamental of control system theory.

The people who "shied away" from this shied away from it the same way people would intuitively, but smartly, shy away from using a power saw with a blindfold on.

Not me...

[evilviper]

Allow me to rant for a moment...

I find that just about all products, and automabiles especially, are getting excessively complicated, needlessly...

My current car for instance... The shoulder belt is electronically moved into place when the door is closed, and forward when the door is opened. Since I have to fasten my lap belt anyhow, this doesn't make life one bit easier for me, yet, the sensor goes out, the motor goes out, and either I'm paying shitloads of money to get replacement parts to fix the damn thing, or I'm welding it in-place, and then manually unhooking two seatbelts... Piece of junk. Meanwhile, basic, old-fashioned 3-point seatbelts work better.

These days, cars are mechanically more sound than they were previously, but electronicly less sound. Cars used to overheat because of serious problems... Now they overheat because the $5 sensor (that costs $200 to have replaced) went out, and the electric fan didn't kick on when things were getting too hot... Meanwhile, a mechnical fan, connected to the engine shaft, would have worked just as well, never failed, and would have been cheaper.

Maybe I am just (slightly) paranoid, but it seems as if manufacturers are making things needlessly complex intentionally so that they can sell more cars, or get more money on repairs. Something like airbags I can understand, but 99+% of this high-tech junk is no better than the low-tech solution, and is more prone to failure, and need replairs.

Well, even if it's not intentional, I want no part of it, because facts are facts, and the more high-tech, the more problems there will be.

Getting this back to the topic, I'm sure this new technology is an impressive improvement, but dammed if I want it. Truck drivers might stand to benefit from it, considering their unique situation, but with a car or a truck, the roughness of the ride is a very important indicator of how much damage you are doing to your vehicle.

If their intention is really to allow you to haul heavy-loads, while cushioning small bumps, why aren't they doing it the low-tech way? There are plenty of spring designs that could be used that would make the ride very smooth when there is no load, yet maintain the strength when loaded. You wouldn't get the benefit from it when loaded, however, when a truck is heavily loaded, you normally don't feel the small bumps anyhow... It's only when they are emtpy that the firm springs result in a rough-ride.

Re:Not me...

[Osty]

My current car for instance... The shoulder belt is electronically moved into place when the door is closed, and forward when the door is opened. Since I have to fasten my lap belt anyhow, this doesn't make life one bit easier for me, yet, the sensor goes out, the motor goes out, and either I'm paying shitloads of money to get replacement parts to fix the damn thing, or I'm welding it in-place, and then manually unhooking two seatbelts... Piece of junk. Meanwhile, basic, old-fashioned 3-point seatbelts work better.

What kind of car are you driving? I haven't seen a system like that in a car for nearly a decade. They were in style for a few years in the late 80s and early 90s, but quickly died a quick death. I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact that the automatic belt gave drivers a false sense of safety, thus causing them not to latch their lap belts. The lap belt is the most important piece of a three-point belt restraint system, and with only a shoulder belt you run a very high risk of slipping down your seat in a collision, catching the shoulder belt with your chin, and literally losing your head.

Assuming, then, that you're driving a 10+ year old car, it's no wonder you have these types of problems. Such computer-controlled systems were still relatively new, and they've come quite a long way.

Re:Not me...

[buddha42]

I want no part of it, because facts are facts, and the more high-tech, the more problems there will be.

When I die crashing my hoverbike because I was pulling 3G's and one of those newfangled e-lec-tronics failed, I will die a much happier man than if we'd listened to you, mister "hold it right here this has gone too far, back in the good old days we just used mechanics and we liked it."

Re:Not me...

[thomasdelbert]

The electronics in cars today have lead to significant improvements.

The electric radiator fan instead of the mechanical (to use your example) - electric fans only exist in front wheel drive vehicles. The reason for that is FWD vehicles have tranversally mouted engines so putting a mechanicly driven fan is actually more complicated and costly and less reliable than an electric fan. Cars didn't used to have that because FWD only came onto the scene in the late 80's.

Electronic fuel injectors instead of carburators - now cars use less fuel and produce less harmful emissions than before. The Dodge Ram that used to get 6 mpg now gets over 15.

Electronic ignition saves fuel and improves the perfomance of the vehicle due to its ability to adapt to the changing conditions (temperature, speed, load, etc) on the engine and gets rid of the mechanical distributor (which was a maintenance issue).

Truth is, solid-state electronics are always less prone to failure than their mechanical counterparts and usually have the ability to adapt instantly to changing conditions.

The electronic suspension is a natural progression, something I've been waiting to see. I'm just surprised that it was Bose that introduced it first.

The spring designs that you refer to - they are the leaf spring live-axle suspension - the oldest design known. My truck has that on the rear axle. Some have it one the front as well. You are correct that they have a smooth ride and that they handle a wide variety of load conditions. In fact, they can probably handle a wider range than this electronic suspension.

The point of it though was that you can get great cornering ability without losing the smoothness of the ride. My truck corners quite poorly and the suspension is a major factor in that (the other factor being the higher centre of gravity).

It seems that Bose demontrated this on a luxury car instead of on a truck, which prolly means that that was the target market of this system. Cars don't handle nearly the range of loads that trucks do (which is why cars can have independant suspesions on all four wheels) so it seems that your point of hauling loads is irrelevant in this discussion.

As for reliability - the front suspension of my truck is independant, like most trucks. I've had all four ball joints replaced already. I've never had to replace any electronics in my car - anywhere. (I know - anectodal evidence...)

To summerize, the leaf spring isn't going away, this system is designed to achieve different goals. And reliability isn't a concern when you compare it to the alternative.

- Thomas;

Typical Bose

[Osty]

Little or no technical details, controlled environments that make their technology appear better than it is, and exaggeration. If you read the last article linked, it's not even a fair comparison. For instance, there's this quote:

Docked atop an indoor road simulator, the test car's suspension system was switched on and off to highlight the difference between it and typical hydraulic systems.

There's no reason to assume that the Bose suspension does not in any way affect the existing suspension, so simply switching it off is not a fair comparison.

The idea of active suspension is not new, and Bose is not the only one doing it. GM has had "Magnetic Ride Control" for a few years now, and other manufacturers have similar active technologies. While the Bose articles are light on details, it seems that the Bose technology is not far different from other electronically controlled systems (something about electric motors at all four wheels, yet it apparently still uses standard pneumatic suspension components as well).

Bose's flair for hyperbole and marketing is their only real asset. My ass it took 24 years to develop this technology. Perhaps it's been 24 years since there has been any significant innovation in suspension technology (I'm not buying it, though ...), but there's no way Bose has been working on this one piece of technology for 24 years.

Bose can sell a $20 clock radio for $300, and a $1000 home theater system for $3500, and you can bet they'll sell this technology for quite a bit more than average as well, where similar systems are currently optioned around $1000-$3000 depending on the make (ie, Porsche's system is more expensive than Chevy's, and I would expect Bose to be even more expensive than Porsche)

Besides, do you really trust a second-rate "hi-fi" (haha!) company to build the suspension for your car? I certainly wouldn't! Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Chevy, et al have been doing it for far longer, and have a much deeper wealth of automotive knowledge. I'll trust the experts on this one, rather than Bose.

This is hardly revolutionary...

[kgbspy]

Erm... a system just as good as this, if not superior to it, has been around for quite a while, and in its current generation will do everything that this BOSE system does; most probably better. And this is based technology that has been around since the early 50s, with major changes only being introduced in the last 10 years or so.

Unfortunately..

[dj245]

...The success of Bose is not due to superior products, but superior marketing. This article, this one, and this one all point to Bose offering low quality products with some heavy duty marketing to back them up. I'm really not impressed by this latest invention, it just sounds to me like the "Just add magical magnets" effect. Put on some magnets, call it magic, make some money.

Benz there. Done that.

[dsurber]

Mercedes already offer a comperable system on the 2004 SL, CL, and S class. This has been availble in the CL since the 2000 model year. This page is pure Flash, but it describes the system. http://www.mbusa.com/media/richmedia/main/models/t ech_demos/abc/abc.swf

Comparing Apples to Oranges

[teneighty]

IANCE (Chassis Engineer), but I have an interest in suspension systems as applied to motor racing. The suspension in the vehicle depicted as having a "conventional" system a very poor choice for comparision since it appears to be a medicore suspension system at best. A conventional suspension system with stiffer springs, anti-roll bars, and better dampers would perform drastically better under those types of conditions.

The vehicle pictured appears to be a Lexus LS400, which of course is a luxury barge that sacrifices handling for comfort. I realise Bose is claiming you can have your cake and eat it too - but I'd like to see a more valid comparision before drawing any conclusions - for example, a comparision with a BMW 5-series

This system looks like it would be quite heavy - and I bet you need extra batteries to provide adequate current too. Another question is how much heat the system generates, and how well it performs when hot (any electrical engineers care to comment on that?)

Question about the videos

[NeoSkandranon]

I find myself watching those videos and thinking "My car doesn't appear to yaw and pitch that badly when i drive, and driving in rush hour interstate traffic i make alot of those maneuvers"

Only explanation I can think is that the courses were driven alot faster than they appear, and then the video slowed down so you can see the effects more clearly.

Anyone else perhaps more learned in this area care to comment?

Re:In suspension terms: Jumping == Bad

[dopaz]

How did this get modded informative? An infinitely variable damper is not a gimmick. It would be infinitely useful. The demonstration where the car jumps is just showing how much force this suspension system can generate. The real innovation here is that everything is done electronically, whereas older systems used hydraulics. Check out this article for the basics of why this is a good thing: Active Suspension Also, GM's new Cadillac XLR uses an electromagnetic suspension, as well as the forthcoming 6th generation Corvette.

What happens when you lose power?

[multiplexo]

Sure, springs and shocks are brute stupid technology from the dawn of time, but they're also brute stupid reliable technlogy from the dawn of time.

Needless complexity in automobiles...

[hot soldering iron]

Is caused by design.

My brother-in-law is a young, but very well respected manufacturing engineer that graduated from one of the top 5 engineering schools in the US. He related to me that when he had to take the automotive engineering block, his design guidlines were to make it: modular, unrepairable, limited lifetime, and requiring an expensive machine tool infrastructure to build.

This was to prevent shade-tree and small shop mechanics from repairing/replacing/rebuilding parts, and force them to purchase replacement parts. I ran into this in the electronics industry also - you sell the device once, but only you can repair it for the next 20 years.

This sounds like one more unnecessary gimmick, like heated rearview mirrors, temp controlled seats, self-actuating shoulder belts, etc...
When it works right, it will be very nice. When it doesn't, it will be very expensive. And let's not forget that Bose will have this entire system patented, and the control modules probably potted and rigged to wipe themselves if tampered with ("I'm sorry, your module is damaged, that will take 2 weeks and $700 to get a new one").

Thank god that there isn't a software equivalent to electronics potting compound!

Term.

[hot_Karls_bad_cavern]

Just pickin' 'cause i use my camera (a lot), but that is not really over-exposure, the technique used there is what is refered to as a "rear-synced" exposure....the flash is synced to bang at the end of the exposure lighting the subject at the end of its movement during the shot. You are most correct in stating that this is an excellent way to show how this suspension acts though...a damn good way. It's also how some very dramatic and motion-capturing shots are taken in nightclubs and other low-light situations. Very nice effect and used here perfectly.

Again, just picking 'cause i'm love with the camera ;-)