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Revenge Really Does Taste Sweet
Wizzy Wig writes "The Toronto Star is reporting on scientific experiments showing a link between revenge and the 'pleasure center' of the human brain, thus putting a nature spin on something heretofore thought of as a nurture based, or learned, emotion."
Revenge is always one of those things that, besides are better ethics not too, always makes one feel good.
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It's never a matter of being right or wrong, it's that feeling of justice I suppose, the feeling that we have, in our eyes, made things right in the world
Of course, it's also immensely selfish and one sided.
Cheers,
James Carr
any human could tell you that. Who are these scientists? aliens?
did you forget to take your meds?
How is this slashdot worthy? Are we all a bunch of revenge-warring geeks looking for some deserved payback on the bullies of yesteryear?
Anyway. I'm not really sure what the point of this research really was. We all knew that revenge makes us feel better to some point. I would rather see a study on the long term effect of that exacting that revenge on those who wronged us. The aftermath of it all. I didn't see anything where they followed up with those men they studied to see how they felt about it a week, a month and a year later.
It may feel good at the moment, but what affect does it have on us emotionally in the long run?
If we knew that it might make us think a little more carefully or less about exacting our revenge upon people.
But then again, knowing people, it probaly would not change things one way or another.
"why don't you just slip into something more comfortable...like a coma!"
Here's a link to the same article from CBC. I have to say, this seems to be one of those things we don't need to be TOLD are true. Everyone knows that getting revenge feels good (temporarily anyways).
You get a pleasure rush as a result of extreme pain. It makes sense that you'd get a pleasure rush in the same fashion by taking revenge, an emotional analogue to endorphines if you really think hard enough about it.
I think a better solution is to find a safe outlet for these urges. Sports are a fairly common choice, but there is a wide range of activities that allow you to vent your frustrations without driving dangerously or beating spouses/offspring.
_____
Thank you.
you forgot wolves
Don't you think humans form packs just to go out there to beat the crap out of that other pack of humans?
All there is to that "social" behavior...
And NO, to me humans don't look at all like ants, bees or termites. The little guys have a collective purpose. Do we?
'[I]f we want to be civilized humans, we have to go against these basic, animalistic instincts.'
'Is anyone else here thinking "Prisoner's dilemma"?'
In the iterated prisoner's dilemma, the potential for revenge is an incentive to cooperate. In light of this, your assumption -- that revenge is inherently inimical to civilization -- does not obviously hold.
I think if you revenge for something, you actually want to show your victim that you can "also do that", and the victim is not superior to you, and can push you around.
so revenge is an act who increasess self-esteem which gives satisfaction (this is clear, I think).
therefore it's not an instinctive thing, rather a "point-of-view"-thing which comes out of rationality.
I myself think, I am superior if I stay with my ethics and do not hurt people in revenge. That doesen't mean I wouldn't hurt people at all, but not in revenge.
This gives me satisfaction, too.
In 2001 I was laid off from my job at a fairly successful company for, well, pretty much sheer politics.
So I walked away, maintained contact with the people who used to work for me and my peers, never badmouthed the guy who sacked me, and went on to have a good life.
South africa had seen a very bitter and long conflict not just between white and black but between whites and whites. Brown and black. Black and black. Zulus where used by the white goverment as a way to keep the ANC down. People from india where put in a middle position. Jews were on the outside white but just as prosecuted.
So why was there no revenge? Their sure was enough on all sides to be bitter about.
Because all sides realized that revenge was not an option. Even the neo-nazis realized that either there was peace or they were going to get slaughtered.
Peace was possible because no side wanted to risk war.
An example to the world that we can rise above ourselves. And sadly one that is almost impossible to duplicate. Usually at least one side thinks that he will win the war. The person cutting you off doesn't consider that he will die horribly in an accident or that you will gun him down. The rapist does not consider he will go to jail. The troll does not consider that someone will look him up and punch his face in.
South africa didn't take revenge because they were afraid of what revenge would do to them.
So I disagree with out. I think revenge is very usefull. Most usefull when both sides fear the potential of revenge.
The extreme side of the lack of fear of revenge are terrorist attacks. Al Quada could attack because they didn't fear anything america could do back. Or do you really think Osama Bin Laden gives a damn about the people on his side killed?
On the other hand america can act like a real prick because it does not live in fear that someday the world will get revenge. Look at vietnam. America slaughtered yet lives free from ever having to face the consequences.
Revenge is sweet but the fear of revenge keeps humans "civilized" where civilized translates as "from bashing each others head in".
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Like most instincts and emotions, it has its place, but should be controlled. It was likely the need for revenge that spawned the judicial system and set up a good reward/punishment system for our ancestors. Now that we have laws and systems to do the justice for us, we should supress our need for revenge when it urges us to do anything illegal or possibly harmful to ourselves or society in the long-term, but I'd say a little vengeance is healthy for all parties involved... it vents an emotion in one, and expresses the pain a previous action caused to another -- so they know they did something someone else percieved as wrong and are less likely to do it again for fear of similar consequences. Not that I condone anything illegal, but some people do just get what they deserve ;-)
So is his chosen messenger! Along with their imaginary miracles, and imaginary feats, and imaginary messages.
PheeR Primitive Superstitions - Destroy Religion before another human is murdered over it or another war is waged over it.
PheeR Primitive Superstitions - Read a book that is full of facts instead of fiction and a little more up to date.
PheeR Primitive Superstitions - Religion is the root of all evil.
Reality 1:0
"Humans create fairy tales and stories for that which science cannot explain yet."
Forgiveness is no good. But neither is revenge. It's like this. The kid spinning the book was trying to bother you. His happiness relied upon your misery.
You put up with his actions for a few minutes. That is what we call tolerance. Something is bothering you, but you don't do anything about it, you tolerate it. This doesn't work because even though you don't put out a reaction two other things happen. You are still unhappy, and the other person still gains joy. Also you bottle up whatever you would have let out.
Forgiveness is when someone does something and you say, even though you bothered me, that's ok. Instead of doing nothing you respond to the annoyance with a positive. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't. Usually its an acknowledgement of your displeasure and the annoying guy still has fun. And now that you are marked as a source of fun, you will be a future target.
The real way to avoid tolerance, forgiveness and revenge is apathy. So, he's spinning his book. WHo cares? So he ruins your drawing, who cares? Let it happen and carry on. It's not enough to just carry on though, you have to legitimately not care. People can sense it if you are getting frustrated and then you've lost. I legitimately don't care what other people think about me or what other people do. It's fantastic. Because of this I say and do whatever I want and most consequences evaporate. This doesn't necessarily mean I do evil things. Whatever I want usually means trying to help people and do good. But I don't let the actions or opinions of others guide my decisions or actions.
If this guy did to me what he did to you he would have a very tough time. First when he couldn't get a reaction he would try harder. Now he's not having fun because he's putting in more effort and not getting a return out of it. Two things can happen. Either he will give up because its too much effort, or he will hit me first. If he gives up, I win. If he hits first, it's all over. I get up and send him to the hospital. I never hit first, ever. I'm almost pacifist in that way. But if I get hit, nukes come out. And demonstrating this behavior tends to make it so that people don't bother you so much anymore. Both because of fear and lack of fun.
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For some (most), this article rings true, but for others, I'm sure they are wriggling in their seats saying "No it doesn't!." Revenge can only feel good if your acting on your ego-centric tendencies - congrats, your acting from a subhuman level - fooling yourself into thinking that what your doing is right even though you know that what your doing is just as wrong, if not more so. If you truly love someone and they do something wrong or negative towards you (only in your opinion - not necessarily in theirs), your telling me that the only thing that makes you feel good is if you hurt them too? That's sick... as in mentally sick - you need help. Most people (like the feces-spreading woman) might get a kick knowing that her former husband has a smelly apartment, but after awhile I would imagine that guilt would set in (or atleast I hope it would), since she LOVED The guy for a LONG time. How can you people just turn love off - yes, even if someone just cheated on you. If you get pissed and can act in this vengeful way then you obviously never loved them and have just been fooling yourself into thinking that you do - in other words - you don't know what love is.
If your spouse of 5 years all of the sudden doesn't have as much interest in you any more, and has a loving interest in another person (not just a fuck-biddy, but a real relationship), you can either try to screw them over somehow, or LET THEM GO BECAUSE YOU LOVE THEM. Most people are almost ALWAYS acting from their ego-centric parts of their mind - in other words - they know not what they do. If you recognize this, you can actually love someone for WHO THEY ARE, and if at one point down the road they do something that you don't agree with - you don't throw all that away, judge them unworthy, and bust out the acts of vengeance - you grow by understanding that they need to live their own lives and so do you. You feel peace in knowing that you can let them go without trying to hurt them back - eventually in life, they will realize that they left a perfectly nice person who was always there for them - not their last vengeful memory of someone trying to fuck them over - then you've just converted all love to hate - this is NOT where you want to be.
As for the car example - its YOUR decision to get pissed off and then its YOUR decision that "getting back" by so vengefully driving by them (ooooh) feels good. A lot of people have decided to feel this way (they don't realize that their choosing - they think its natural human behaviour!) and so the article is true for most people, but its painfully obvious that people do not have to be this way at all. Why do you let a guy who drives beside you and "gets in line first" bother you? The guy must have all the power in the world if he can get you totally pissed off just by driving by you - or is it that you are the most powerless? Perhaps you think you are powerless and that makes you sad/mad (can you say headgames?). Therefore, the only thing you think you can do is to drive by the guy and hope that your 5 second delay really bothered him. Congrats, you are now super-powerul - feel good about yourself.
For a second there, you had the power to let him in and show that you are above all that childish "me first, me first!" crap, but you blew that for a cheap thrill that if you thought about it, you shouldn't really be having. Turns out your still children but with X number of years of hiding/transforming your childish tendencies as effectively as possible - so effectibve that you don't even realize it - not even when your called on it in an article such as this one.
The key is to actually CHANGE your behaviour to grow and feel at peace, not just change its form so it can make you act the same way with some new made-up justification.
You create your own reality - Leave mine to me.
Lex Talionis was actually the first good law; it meant you couldn't exert more revenge onto someone than they had done to you. You couldn't have someone killed for stealing a piece of bread: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. If you put criminals away just for the sake of putting them away, it's stupid, you migh as well give them a "please don't do that again" and release them. You put them away so the victim can have revenge and feel safe.
Non-Linux Penguins ?
It's too bad that in many western societies Justice is almost equivalent to Revenge.
This may be a little offtopic...
Justice should never appeal to the "lower" human feeling, but rather be designed to prevent crime from happending in the first place. Revenge has no place in Justice as it does nothing to "undo" the crime after it happened.
Crimes are prevented by:
- Eliminating the reason (for example poverty and social inequalities).
- Education (for example learn to deal with jealousy, envy, and other desires and feelings in a non-violent way)
- Deterrance (if you commit a crime, face the consequences).
- Reparation (not preventing anything, but necessary to repair the damage caused - this is not revenge!)
This is a big difference, although in practise the differences are subtle; i.e. are you locking somebody up because of revenge or deterrance?When somebody is punished for a crime, there should be no pleasure and no feeling of revenge or even accomblishment! Rather there should be the urge to understand why the crime happened and the understanding that this is necessary to deter the next.
As Gandhi said
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
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