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The U.K.'s National Health Service Licenses JDS

Posted by timothy on from the licensing-tactics dept.

deputydink writes "Recently the NHS licensed from Sun 5000 seats of its JDS system for tactical deployments within the health care service, adding that it deemed JDS a viable desktop alternative for certain types of user communities. The NHS has already deployed JDS in its back-office. This could be the high profile boost for JDS subscription services that Sun needs."

20 of 124 comments (clear)

  1. Yikes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As an ex Sun guy with plenty of JDS experience let me just say this is farking insane unless these tactical deployments are not mission critical deployments. For desktop use by admins or execs, that's cool but I wouldn't want anyone in the emergency room using it.

    1. Re:Yikes. by Aardpig · · Score: 5, Interesting

      As an ex Sun guy with plenty of JDS experience let me just say this is farking insane unless these tactical deployments are not mission critical deployments.

      Don't worry, I imagine the deployments will be standard desktop use. However, from the article:

      An NHS representative could not elaborate on exactly where in the agency's sprawling system, incorporating tens of thousands of users, the software would be deployed.

      This makes me concerned that the NHS administration is adopting the classic 'head up arse' approach to IT administration, buying 'cool' new kit before they have any clue what they will be using it for.

      --
      Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
  2. IT and the NHS by suckmysav · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Given the NHS's spectacular track record in failed IT projects, I have grave concerns that this has as much a chance of ending up being a PR nightmare as it it does a triumph where Sun is concerned.

    --
    "You can't fight in here, this is the war room!"
  3. Just a question- by thewldisntenuff · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How does one define "tactical deployments"?

    Are we talking ER situations? Homeland Defense/Emergency offices? I mean, the article leaves little mention, just stating that they are to be used in "tactical deployments"?

    Any docs out there who can explain?

    -thewldisntenuff

    --
    My MythTV HowTo
    1. Re:Just a question- by MmmDee · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I think the term, "tactical deployment" as used here simply means installing and verifying the software works at the customer's facility. To my knowledge, there is no such term used in the medical community. This link just shows as an example company using the term as I described (from a google search).

      --
      No man's an island, unless he's had too much to drink and wets the bed.
    2. Re:Just a question- by stevelinton · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I would guess this will be deployed in the NHS administrative structures, rather than in hospitals or GP surgeries. There are loads of parts of the NHS where they need lots of seats to run a few specific applications rather than general computing:

      * the NHS direct call centre operation
      * the huge adminstration that tracks monitors and pays for
      all non-hospital NHS prescriptions
      * central and regional management and support -- allocating money

  4. Medical records and open source by cimmer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I find it pretty interesting that Sun was able to score this deal in an area where security is such an important aspect. Or perhaps that's why they were able to do so? Either way, it seems like a solid jab for the open source community.

    1. Re:Medical records and open source by 0racle · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Its probably one of the reasons in part why Sun instead of say Red Hat or SuSE would have got the contract. Once the decision to go with Linux was made you look at who will provide the support, and being the Health Service and the 'tactical deployment' description, I would assume that would mean a 24/7 on-site support ability. By this point it comes down pretty much to IBM or Sun. There's a good chance the NHS has a prior relationship with one of them, if not both, so the past experience with that coupled with what the decision makers knew of their reputation with the ultimate leveler, the cost, is what will draw the final decision. While IBM is no slouch when it comes to security, they are moving an unaltered Red Hat or SuSE, both of which have frequent security bulletins, while Sun also has a decent record of security, and modifies Linux to create the JDS, which at the very least could give the impression that it might be the more secure of the two.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    2. Re:Medical records and open source by DrXym · · Score: 2, Interesting
      ... Red Hat or SuSE, both of which have frequent security bulletins

      But anyone with half a brain in their IT department would know that is a good thing. And they should have evaulated those systems as a matter of course. I'm sure both companies would offer 24/7 support if you paid them for it.

      I don't run JDS - I can't because it has the suckiest hardware support since Corel Linux and I wouldn't due the licence - so I have no idea of how good their security bulletins are. What I do know is that if there are few or none, that it is a cause to be extremely, extremely worried. After all, JDS is just an old SuSE with UI sprinkles and some extra Sun stuff. I consider it highly implausible that it is all immune to the issues that would face a older generic SuSE, or that the Sun stuff is perfect and bug free in every way.

      Still, like you say Sun could be a tier 1 supplier for the NHS with an existing support contract. If so I wouldn't be surprised if Sun tossed 5000 licences at them just to drum up hardware sales. Even so, JDS bears every indication of being a lemon, so I'd be reluctant to sign a piece of paper committing myself to it, no matter how many copies sun threw my way.

    3. Re:Medical records and open source by legirons · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "I find it pretty interesting that Sun was able to score this deal in an area where security is such an important aspect"

      You mis-spelled "cost".

      But here we don't have HIPPAA, and everyone in the NHS runs windows computers with viruses on them (not as much of an exaggeration as you think), it's common for whole departments to lose their computing facilities when a new virus hits, it's common for confidential information to make its way from a virus-infected computer to the internet. Many [most?] computers are never patched, and while they've got a firewall "around" the whole lot, everyone who's got laptops in their office (many doctors use tablet PCs) knows how effective one exterior firewall is.

      They were once trying to roll-out an entire public-key cryptosystem in one go, which was the last time security was mentioned. I don't know if they were going to install a separate "prescription-signing" computer in each doctor's office, or install something on their Windows machine, but either way the talk is of extremely high cost, and extremely low value. Perhaps all the years of removing "non-medical" administrative positions are taking their toll, but more likely it's this way because everything related to UK government is that way.

      Of course, people on slashdot will say that nothing should be connected to the internet, but then medical researchers are just the same as physics researchers -- websites and email addresses and newsgroups are very useful tools for doing research. And the surgeries in the shetland-end of nowhere with dial-up access to the mainland probably aren't going to have security of any sort, indeed I doubt that anyone has the funds to implement "military grade" 2-unconnected-networks security.

      They just signed another contract for a quintillion windows licenses a year ago for both government and the NHS, if that gives any idea of their preferred platform

    4. Re:Medical records and open source by toriver · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Then again, SuSE == Novell these days, and that name has a good rep in the corporate world, from back when Microsoft didn't care that PCs could be networked, and left all of that to third parties like Banyan, Sun, various universities and especially Novell.

      The third-party market practically died with Windows 95, but still.

  5. JDS has been a Godsend for me by akedia · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I work as a network administrator for a national architectural research institution. Recently, we replaced several dozen aging Windows XP workstations with Sun thin-clients running the JDS system for to run the proprietary topographic software our employees use and I am very impressed. The integrated system managment tools are bar-none the best I've ever used, and a distributed system offers users much more power than they would ever need, without the extra cost of running an NT-based domain. Sun really has built an excellent product.

  6. Mozilla on JDS by z3021017 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I just hope they updated the integrated Mozilla browser!

    The last time I used JDS, the version of Mozilla preinstalled was 1.4, which did not support NTLM proxy authentication and thus I had major issues getting the computer on the Internet.

    In the end, I just installed Firefox.

    --
    Bored? Visit my exciting counter page!
  7. Could be a ploy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    To get the best deal out of MS ala Telstra Australia.

  8. Two key issues... by jkrise · · Score: 4, Interesting

    while deploying alternate desktop environs in a health-care setup:

    1. Printing: Best way forward is internet printing. Very difficult to get the right drivers working the right way on each desktop, but for internet printing.

    2. Drivers for medical devices: Most devices come with Windows drivers only. Hardware mfrs. and Linux distors really need to take some effort here. By the way, this is a weal area for Windows versions as well. Every new OS release or Service Pack screws up some or other device driver or dll, and some app stops working!

    Currently I use Windows on those m/cs that are interfaced to these devices or printers. There's no major issue with plain Linux distros and no major advantage having JDS instead.

    -

    --
    If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
    1. Re:Two key issues... by jimicus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      2. Drivers for medical devices: Most devices come with Windows drivers only.

      I don't work in the NHS, but IME when an organisation the size of the NHS (one of the biggest employers in the country) says "we want it to work in Linux", the answer is not "We don't support Linux".

  9. Re:Medical records, open source and security by darkonc · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Given that Linux is getting higher security certifications than Windows is (now that we've got companies with enough money invested to make the process worthwhile), I'd say that Windows is (or should be) he underdog when security is paramount.

    The last thing you want to hear in the middle of an emergency resuscitation is: "I can't pull the chart up, I've got a virus!"

    --
    Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
  10. 5K is not that much is it? by killjoe · · Score: 3, Interesting

    5K desktops does not seem like that big of a number to me. Didn't they already sign a deal for 100K desktops someplace?

    Don't get me wrong. I am glad there are 5K more linux desktops in the world but Sun was hinting at much bigger numbers.

    --
    evil is as evil does
    1. Re:5K is not that much is it? by jimicus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You're absolutely right. Which makes me think this is a pilot. Maybe it's to put the frighteners on Microsoft to get a better deal, maybe it's serious.

      However, it can't have escaped NHS management attention that a high-profile pilot of Linux on the desktop is an excellent way to negotiate discounts on Windows. Given the quantities involved, it is possible that the discounts could be worth considerably more than 5000 "throwaway" JDS licenses.

  11. doc -- explains (maybe) by midgley · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The most obvious tactic is to demonstrate to a certain other supplier of desktop IT systems that they are not indispensible.

    As Newham (local government in part of London) did.

    Newham's anticipated savings and level of support with their eventual systems are reported to have made sharp alterations as a result of that tactic.

    These will not be the first Linux desktops in the NHS and its contractors (most GPs are not directly part of the NHS but are contractors to it althoguh the latest Great Idea is to compulsorily outsource our IT to the NHS - an interesting strategy without so far a coherently stated logistical approach to implementing it) - I for one have Linux on several of the machines in the office, but our old clinical automation is Clipper/DOS and mostly won't run under DOSemu at least for me.

    Linguistic Inflation and paralysis of thought The other explanation is linguistic inflation.
    The NHS management can't buy things, spend money on services etc, rather they "invest".

    Similarly, a sensible idea to follow-up a small trial of an office desktop by putting 5k of them to use wherever people want to use that rather than the insecure legacy system of a competitor noted for its frequent excursions from legal operation in order to see how it goes - an experiment - gets inflated into "tactical deployment".

    In Soviet Russia, Kremlin watchers used to decode gnomic utterances, stripping the revolutionary cloaking in order to divine the actual information content. Religion is a bit the same.

    As to the act itself, I'm here and I applaud it. I've been working for FLOSS implementation in healthcare for 5 years, including chairing the NHS session of the OSHCA London meeting which the NHS Information Authority sponsored - I would say in a sensible illustration of applying a little attention to trends other than the main line in order to remain knowledgeable about them. During that meeting the head of the NHSIA (who opened it) accepted a post in the Cabinet Office office of the e-envoy.... and a while later that Office produced the UK Policy on F/OSS from work done mainly by QinetiQ.

    Oh, and a week or two after it billg had lunch with the Prime Minister and the NHS got a deal on 1E6 copies of Windows - as a tactic IMHO against embarrassment by software audits - nobody knows how many copies of anything are around in a hospital Trust, nor could find the licences.

    FLOSS of course offers a strategic approach to avoiding that risk and letting people take a copy home, but governments are not yet entirely comfortable with such loose arrangements.