Palmtop Nirvana?

cakefool asks: "There seems to be a Slashdot article every day about a new palmtop/subnotebook/digitalwhoojerammy, and without fail people complain it doesn't have what they want. Let's do this the other way around - what do you need in a handheld computing device, seriously? I ummed and ahhed for ages before finally ordering a Psion 5mx, and it does everything I need it to, other than play Doom(1), and is a hell of a lot cheaper than the JVC micronotebook, and smaller than a budget laptop, with a much longer battery life than both." What features do you look for in a handheld/palmtop computing device?

Comments

Palm Zire 72

[Steev]

With a 1.2 MP camera, and the ability to play OGG Vorbis, the Palm Zire 72 and my 512 meg SD card will last me for a while. Especially with the new Wi-Fi SDIO cards coming out.

Re:Palm Zire 72

[moberry]

Kind of ironic.. I bought one on ebay about....45 seconds before i saw this article. I am a college student and the todo list is great for homework.The zire 71 is replacing my (very) worn Palm Vx. The zire plays sound with realOne player, has a "hidden" camera, and even plays movies somewhat. I look forward to receiving it. What drove me to it is relatively low price. i recommend it highly

Interface

[El_Ehmenopio]

I've always wanted solar power on a pda. The battery requirements would be a little mroe forgiving. Oh, and the ability to firstpost!

Re:Interface

[AnyoneEB]

I've always wanted solar power on a pda. The battery requirements would be a little mroe forgiving.

That would be a problem because in my experience direct sunlight makes the screens of PDAs (grayscale and color) appear faded and difficult to read. I have a feeling that the indirect light the PDA recives on what little space is not covered by the screen or the user's hand would have almost no effect on the battery life and would waste weight and bulk better spent on... a better rechargeable battery?

I'm not sure what problems you've had with battery life, but on a recent PDA with a rechargeable battery and a color screen, you don't have to worry about data loss because the color screen takes so much power compared to the RAM that when the screen won't turn on the RAM may last for as long as a few weeks.

Not much

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't own one, but I'd buy a Palm III with a USB interface for 10 bucks if someone offered it to me. If I want a camera/mp3 player/etc I'd get a dedicated device.

Easy

[sabinm]

Modularization. I don't care what other peoples' palmtops can do. I want modules. Bluetooth. Storage. WiFi. TriCorder. I want the modules small and hard to break. I want them easy to install. I don't want to wait for drivers. I want open specs and the ability to hack.

Any takers?

Re:Easy

[Trejkaz]

I like the idea of external modules. Why build a camera into a PDA, when you can build Bluetooth into the PDA, and Bluetooth into a camera? The two will then be able to talk. Why build a phone into a PDA, when again, you could just talk remotely? And of course, we're already seeing the beginnings of this. Phone to PDA is pretty common, Bluetooth GPS systems are starting to emerge. How long for Bluetooth storage, I wonder?

The only thing which doesn't really fit into this ideal is the wifi, due to the bandwidth difference between the two. Who knows, maybe there will be a Bluetooth2 one day which fixes this relatively minor issue.

Subnotebooks? Where?

[MSTCrow5429]

You know, here, in the US, the subnotebooks never really took off as far as I can tell. I see mostly medium-sized to desktop replacement size notebooks. The only time I've seen a subnotebook was at those chain stores. Are there any Slashdotter's in the US who use or have seen a good number of subnotebooks? Are there Slashdotters from other countries who believe subnotebooks are much more prevalent than they appear to be here?

all in one.

[binarybum]

screen big enough with high enough res to watch video

processor that can playback smooth divx at decent framerate

GPS

bluetooth

acts as cellphone with bluetooth headset

wi-fi

rugged, can take a beating including static from my pant

SDIO

Re:all in one.

[ThisNukes4u]

Good, but add to that list: waterproof. I have lost soo many devices to accidential spills. And I love kyaiking and offroading in wet weather, so if it was waterproof I could take my mini-computer along too.

Re:all in one.

[soft_guy]

I agree with all the above things. In addition, it should also have:
Decent handwriting recognition - similar to the Newton 2100 (still my fav handheld ever).
Fast response time.
Excellent battery life
Excellent synchronization capabilities with MacOS X, Linux, and Windows. Should be able to sync with multiple machines without screwing up my address book and calendar.
Navigation software that uses the GPS well.
Lots of third party software.
Good free development tools that I can use under MacOS X.
Should include a small hard drive (like the iPod) and have at least 40 gigabytes of storage.
Should be able to use with a blue tooth keyboard (and maybe mouse).
Should be able to use with a blue tooth or WiFi heads up display.
Text to speech and speech recognition that I can use with the navigation software.
Should be able to print documents. Therefore, should support Rendezvous discovery for printers and IP printing.
Should replace my cell phone, laptop, PDA, and iPod.
Should work with blue tooth or IP based scanners.

I've owned most of them...

[vjlen]

...and my favorite is my Blackberry 7230.

It *brings* me my e-mail, lets me respond from practically anywhere, carries my contacts, calendar and notes, is very lightweight, and plays a good game of Texas Hold'em. And I can usually go a few days without a recharge.

And being a phone doesn't hurt either.

Newton

[Anonymous Coward]

I want a Newton running on modern hardware.

Re:Subnotebooks? Where?

[Powertrip]

Probably because we are cheap.... To get the goodies in a sub-notebook we would have to spend more. Isn't that against the law at FRY's or BestBuy -- the love BIG and CHEAP.

That said, Fry's does sell both the Sony and Fujitsu subbies...but they certainly don't have the selection you see overseas like in Japan. Wow, there is some killer gear over there... Check out www.dynamism.com, they retro-fit alot of the Japan only models with English OS's.

my requirements

[JonKatzIsAnIdiot]

1. Big, bright screen. Half-VGA at least.
2. Built-in Wi-Fi. Don't care about Bluetooth.
3. Ability to display all types of document formats. PDF, HTML, CHM, and all the rest I forgot. Ability to view in portrait and landscape mode.No document conversion. Document conversion is a pain. Are you LISTENING Palm?
4. NOT a phone. If I wanted to pay per month for the priviledge of using the device I bought, I would buy a phone.
5. Lots of developers churning out neat programs that can download and play with.
6. Tangentially related, I want to be able to right-click on a file and say "Send to handheld", and have it appear there.
7. I don't care about viewing movies on a handheld. I makes no sense to view movies on a screen a couple of square inches.
8. CHEAP I'm talking $200 CDN max.

Well, I can dream, can't I?

Re:my requirements

[darkgumby]

My Sharp Zaurus 5500 does all of this, almost.
1. 320x240
2. $30 WiFi card.
3. Done thanks to Linux apps.
4, Done, though I wish I could a a CF phone for cheap.
5. Linux wins again.
6. With FTP, SSH, and Samba this is pretty darn easy.
7. Easy to do if you want, skip if you don't
8. I paid $160US for a used one (but it's in perfect condition).

Batteries

[Anonymous Coward]

Good old replace and toss 'em AA or AAA batteries. (Recharagables are great, but it is a wonderful option to be able to use disposable batteries when you don't have access to AC to plug in.)

Unfortunately, this used to be a standard feature, but is now extinct.

The device isn't usually the issue for me

[sjbe]

I am the happy owner of a palm tungsten t3. The only things I would change about it is that I would like some sort of mini keyboard, ala the Sharp Zaurus (not sure how on the T3 form factor tho), better battery life and perhaps slightly better resolution. (though it isn't bad as is) I like the digital ink sketchpad, though I'd like it to have better resolution. Bluetooth is essential as far as I'm concerned and a voice recorder is handy. Otherwise the T3 is about exactly what I want. The Sharp Zaurus would be damn good too if it were so expensive and the software was better.

No, the problem I have with most PDAs is the software on the computer side of things. I use Mozilla/Thunderbird for my email but syncing to anything but Outlook/Notes is a painful exercise if it is possible at all. (Yes I've used the Palm sync in Mozilla and it is barely adequate at best, and no I'm not switching email apps as Outlook/Evolution/Eudora/Pine/whatever don't fit my needs) Even when you can sync to a third party app, forget syncing applications besides an address book and maybe calendar. Sunbird still doesn't support any mobile devices and isn't likely to anytime soon. None of the address book applications can talk to each other in any meaningful way. Would it really be so hard to sync to Palm Desktop AND Thunderbird at the same time? And forget trying to keep my palm and phone syncronized along with my address book, (Mobile Master does an ok job but not perfect) I've tried every application out there to do this (Oxygen, Mobile Master, etc) and none of them are more than band-aid fixes.

What I want is for these applications (particularly address books and calendars) to be able to speak to one another. There is no reason I shouldn't be able to sync to 5 different address books, palm desktop, nokia phone editor and my cell phone at the same time.

Far off, but going to happen

[Phat_Tony]

Mod me off topic, but I don't want a palmtop.

They're inconvenient. I want a wristwatch with:
A cell phone
A fast two-way data connection
A computer with at least 1GB of storage
A GPS
Altimeter, Thermometer, barometer

Being a watch, the interface would be verbal from me to the watch, and a high-resolution screen built into (and superimposed inside the lenses of) a pair of glasses for the interface from the watch to me.

ie, "Watch- what time is my appointment with Bill?"
"Where do I turn to get to the nearest Wendy's, and how far is it?"
"Read me the headlines from Slashdot," etc.

Thus, I will be waiting for several (many?) years.

Need a Microsoft Treo 655+

[aardwolf204]

Treo 650, but with Windows Mobile edition and GPS if thats not pushing it. Yes, I know, this is /., bring on the mods, but seriously this is what I would love.

Pocket outlook would be great for the exchange server my company uses

Terminal Services would be great for administrating my company's exchange server

Pocket Internet explorer is great for those spur of the moment wikipedia lookups, not to mention slashdot and company.

Pocket Streets would be great if the device had GPS, and even better if I can plot a waypoint when GeoCaching

Windows Media player would be great for MP3s on the SD card, however I think there is a winamp port which would be even cooler but to save memory I'm sure WMP would work just fine.

AIM, Yahoo, ICQ, etc...

Oh yeah, and a phone, that would rock.

Pocket word and excel arent that important, if I recieve an attached document I'm probably not going to edit it on a 2" screen but its nice that its there.

Sure, I've got an eTrex for GPS / GeoCaching, and an iPod for music, and a cellphone for calls, and a pocket pc for email, web, and term svc when needed, but put all those in my pockets, including th cables to link ipaq to phone, and gps to ipaq, not to mention the spiffy white earbuds that are always tangled, and I've completely run out of pocket space.

Basically, what I want to do is have all my toys with me but not need a scott-e-vest (OT: Live long and prosper scotty:)

Now if my company was using open-xchange and I needed VNC not terminal services and any imap client would work fine then forget the MS platform and just give me a Treo 650 with GPS.

PS: My next toy is going to be a Treo 650 anyway, I'll live just fine an imap client and cross my fingers using VNC on a 144kbps sprint pcs data connection. Hows the battery life treo users?

But a small request for the PDAfairy.

[Anonymous Coward]

What I want is pretty simple really. I don't ask for much, besides these few basic features:

It should be a small PDA, shaped like the Zaurus or Oqo.

And it should have:
- A high-res color display.
- A slide-out thumb-keyboard.
- Built in WiFi.
- Pen/tablet support.
- An internal 40gb mini harddrive, just like those in the iPod.
- Firewire and USB ports so that the drive may be easily mounted on a Windows or Linux machine and used either for storage, or merely to exchange files with the PDA.
- It should be able to play mp3's.
- It should work as a fully functional cellphone. It should come with a cell-phone assistance application, to store all your phone numbers, call logs, etc.
- It should have a nice digital camera mounted on it, and accompanying snapshot software.
- It should be a gaming system, and have all the power of something like a sony PSP or the new Nintendo handhelds.

If somebody can come with with a device that suits these few little needs, I'd definately fork over cash for it. I don't want to carry around 5 different electronic devices. I want one. WHY NOT? Why hasn't Sharp figured out *PUT MINI HARDDRIVES IN YOUR ZAURUSES* -- And *ALLOW THEM TO PLAY MP3's* -- I just don't get it. We only need one device. Truthfully, the only reason I'm not buying a Zaurus right now is that it can't properly play mp3's cause it doesn't have a hard drive. The best one can hope for is a 4gb compactflash, which is unacceptable.

Re:Cheap but kickass: eMate revisited

[commodoresloat]

Ditto. In terms of form factor I want it to be like the old eMate that ran NewtonOS. Sturdy plastic that you can drop on the floor, a modern processor and OS -- not too modern; a reasonably fast running Arm with PalmOS will do it for me, or some kind of stripped down unix. The option of a greyscale screen -- sure, have color for the higher end model, but give me a low end greyscale screen for $200-400. Basic text editing and internet applications, the ability to create limited office-like applications with easy transfer to MS Office or OpenOffice, ssh, a basic web browser, wifi, about a gig or two of memory; perhaps less; firewire or usb; perhaps a smartcard reader (tho I prefer usb and attach your own). A decent enough screen for reading and writing -- contrast like those sony ebooks I have seen would be nice; true black n white. A keyboard that isn't too small and isn't loud at all (again like the emate). And it should look cool and be about 1-2 lbs. If it comes in different colors and runs a stripped down version of OS X I wouldn't be upset at all either :) Cool thing about the emate was the screen folded out so you could write on it and you could rotate the display so you could look at it from different angles. Perfect for writing, taking notes in lectures, doing limited web and internet work, creating web pages, posting to slashdot, etc. on-the-go. When it's not in use just fold it closed; it should have instant on when I open it up. And some basic calendar and address book software that syncs to my computer would be nice too; again PalmOS has most of what I would need here, though something more modern would be great. An updated NewtonOS would be even nicer, but now I am really dreaming....

Re:Have it do something worthwhile

[Weaselmancer]

Couldn't agree more, sterno. I worked for 3 years at a WindowsCE/Linux shop writing drivers for SA1110 and Cotulla chips (mostly) in PDAs. My impression of them all is that they're pretty much useless. Even when working correctly. ;^)

They all sort of struck me as PHB toys. You know, if you're a wink-and-a-gun suit guy you have to have one, to show the other guy you were....well....you know...out there, on the cutting edge, yada yada yada.

As for me, after spending 3 years around these devices, never once have I said to myself, "Damn! If only I had a PDA, that would be perfect to solve this problem."

It's been said before, but a PDA is a solution in search of a problem.

What makes my Clie worthwhile for me...

[themoodykid]

Two applications make my Clie totally worthwhile: PAdict and MegaWiki. PAdict is a Japanese-English dictionary and MegaWiki lets you take notes in a wiki-like fashion.

Apps like these are great because they're simple and get the job done. You're right, though, stuff like watching videos on this thing, or even looking at photographs, just ain't worth it. Features like that are just novelties. They wear out quick.

Maybe the problem is too many companies figured they could make these things beefier and added more features, but they forgot what made them good in the first place: they were simple easy to use.

Re:What about

[bar-agent]

Why don't they just make a screen that can change size

I've noticed that all the PDAs in recent sci-fi movies have extensible screens. The ones that spring to mind are from Minority Report and The One.

Obviously, extensible screens are the way to go. How close is the technology? I'm thinking either a roll-up screen made out of active paper, overlapping or collapsed panels, or a "display string" that spins, displaying the image as it goes.

Re:Have it do something worthwhile

[Rob Simpson]

I've mentioned this before, but I can carry around more than my weight in medical references on my PDA. I have also read dozens of novels on it, jotted down quick notes (the difference between using a pen and paper and using my PDA is that I've always been able to find said notes later), and played simple games when I was bored and already read all of the books I had loaded.

I can take it out of my pocket, instantly turn it on, read a chapter of a book/look up a drug or dosage/check my shopping list, instantly turn it off, and stick it back in my pocket. This sort of convenience is more useful to me than a laptop, though a palmtop with mram might do the trick someday.

Axim X30H

[tod_miller]

Dell Axim X30 High is you can get one.

624mhz, 64 internal. one 256mb SD card.

Plays quake 1, quake 2 (finished quake 1 on the ferry, shareware... awaiting doom 3 port ;-)

WiFi and bluetooth - handy for transferring photos from a camera phone.

SD is compatible with my 3.2 mp Optio33LF (99 squids from amazon)

I also have a 400mhz iPaq, which is sexy, and has lush chrome finished and a keyboard.

It reads ebooks and does ogg. Want a reliable linux port and SWT port :-) :-) :-) :-)

I guess is SWT runs on qt, and qt runs on this, it should be a dooable affair??

DVD Shrink pulls down my DVD onto a 256 card, of which I have 3, so I have 8 eps of seinfeld on 1, a movie on anothewr, and I install all my apps on the third (makes hard resets a breeze, esp *if you remember to backup your shortcuts!*)

I don't bother with syncing contacts etc.

Axim 30H. get it.

Re:You want a Zaurus SL-C860.

[evilviper]

That is a pretty nice PDA, but one issues comes to mind immediately...

Backlit color screens are very hard on the eyes, and, in addition, they are completely unreadable in even indirect sunlight. Even though it seems nicer to have a color screen, from experience, I know it's much better to go with a B&W LCD that doesn't need a backlight (such as the Psion Revo, or the 5mx to a slightly lesser extent).

Re:Subnotebooks? Where?

[kraut]

It's because people commute on the train. Have you tried getting a fullsized laptop out on a crowded train?

Re:Cheap

[Mysticalfruit]

Same here. This would be what I would want.
NOTE: This is what I WANT...

Demensions: 3" wide x 6" long x 1" deep.

1. Clamshell design where when it was closed it could be used as a cell phone.
2. Upon opening it, it would reveal a querty keyboard and a 6" x 3" color screen. Possibly with a nipple type mouse in the middle of it or a touch screen with a stylus.
3. Some StrongARM type processor.
4. minimum of 64mb of ram.
5. The following features
a. GPS
b. Tuner capable of AM/FM/Shortwave/Aviation/UHF/VHF
c. wifi / Bluetooth / X10 (basically make it driver programmable)
6. Popout (like the old Xircom enet cards) Enet and phone jack.
7. Removable solid state memory slot.
8. USB and/or Firewire port.
9. Long battery life.

I'd want this thing to run linux, and I'd like to get full SDK so I can develop apps on it.

As a sysadmin, I want something that'll allow me to be anywhere and if someone needs something, I can log into the appropiate machines and get things done. At the sametime, I want a device that'll be functional for stuff like playing games and have enough horsepower for doing MAME type emulations and watching movies, etc.

What would work for EVERYBODY...

[Anonymous Coward]

...is a small, light, energy-thrifty unit that does *nothing* but run a fast, secure VNC connection over WiFi to your home or office machine.

No storage issues. No software availability issues. No PC/*nix/Mac issues. Just pure computing goodness in your pocket wherever you go.