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Step By Step: Building a MythTV PVR for $635

Posted by michael on from the longest-march dept.

hesby writes "Anandtech has just published the first half of a two-part article on building a MythTV PVR that they will ultimately compare with Microsoft's Windows Media Center Edition on very similar hardware. As a result, they selected some components that the average user might not choose, just to keep things fair in the second part, where they pit the two PVRs head to head."

82 of 282 comments (clear)

  1. Or by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    You can buy a TiVo for $99.

    1. Re:Or by v1x · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Dont forget the monthly subscription sharges for the Tivo service. An HTPC is a lot more expandable too.

    2. Re:Or by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      $99 + $299 lifetime fee = still cheaper. Heck, you can replace the hard drive with a bigger one and still come out ahead.

    3. Re:Or by typhoonius · · Score: 5, Informative

      You can buy a TiVo for $99.

      The article argues that you'll save money by not having to pay TiVo a monthly fee. Besides, for some of us, building a cool machine is an end in and of itself.

      Anyway, I tried pricing a MythTV box a couple of days ago with a goal of keeping it under $500, and this is what I ended up with (copied right out of the link above):

      • CD/DVD drive ($52)--Combo CD and DVD-writer. DVD-recording isn't essential, so I might downgrade this to a CD-RW/DVD-ROM combo drive.
      • Hard disk drive ($99)--160 GB, S-ATA, very quiet. A P-ATA drive with the same buffer is nearly the same price.
      • Video card ($109)--CATV in, composite out, works with Linux and FreeBSD. The only people who dislike it seem to be kids who want to play Doom III on it.
      • Sound card--Onboard might be good enough for now with a $5 3.5"-headphone-to-composite-audio cable from Radio Shack.
      • Processor ($65)--Athlon XP 2000+, cheap, adequate. Retail instead of OEM so I don't have to get a heatsink/fan separately.
      • Motherboard ($53)--Micro-ATX, S-ATA, AGP 8x. Committed to MSI because a motherboard without Engrish just isn't a motherboard. Three PCI slots for wireless adapter, eventually a sound card, and I dunno, 1394?
      • Memory ($76)--512 MB DDR333, cheaper than DDR266. Screw dual-channel.
      • Case/power supply--Needs something that can fit the video card (guess that entails finding a mobo that horizontally orients expansion cards if I don't want a lame-o tower).
      • Wireless adapter ($30)--802.11g, cheap, works with Linux and FreeBSD. Going wireless so it isn't stuck in the same room as the router (and no way I'm running cat-5 everywhere in 20-mother-fucking-04).

      Subtotal: $484.

      Still need a case--certainly won't be paying $100+ for one like the article did--and probably a sound card that isn't onboard crap. It probably won't make the $500 goal, but it looks alright (barring any major oversights on my part).

    4. Re:Or by MarsDefenseMinister · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Ridiculous.

      When we want something, we usually exchange something called "money" for what we want. We have money, which really isn't any good for anything except getting other things you want.

      And someone else has a TiVo service, which they want to give some someone with money. They can't eat TiVo service, after all.

      So, we both do something called an "exchange". We give them the money, and they give us the TiVo service. This is not a one-sided transaction. We had money which we didn't want, but the other person did. They had some TiVo service, which they can't eat, but can give to us in exchange for the "money" that they can use to get something to eat from someone else. To say that it's cornholing, or flagpole rape is just a little ridiculous.

      So as I said, it's not a one-sided deal. Both parties of this exchange of "money" for "TiVo service" benefit. In fact, usually both parties are so pleased at the exchange from which both of them benefitted, that they say "thank you" to each other at the conclusion of the deal.

      So buy the damn TiVo service and qwitcherbitchin.

      --
      No weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men.-Ronald Reagan
    5. Re:Or by MBCook · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not a bad list, but you really should "splurge" on the Happguage PVR-250 card. It does the encoding in hardware, so even a low end box could easily support two tuners. With the card you put in your list, all the encoding would fall on the CPU. Not only that, I'm not sure that nVidia's personal cinema is supported under Linux. An integrated video card (on the motherboard) would do fine as long as it had TV out that was supported under Linux (and looked half decent). Wouldn't even need that if you used a monitor.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    6. Re:Or by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, first, you didnt include shipping in any of the estimate. This is usually mistake #1.

      Secondly, it appears newegg.com is pulling an amazon.com. I went to their site and found the prices a little different then yours, so ans an experiment, I connected to my work machine, and used IE instead of Firefox, and checked out those prices... again, slightly different then what even I saw before

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    7. Re:Or by doormat · · Score: 3, Informative

      Only up to 137GB due to long-LBA issues. Only the HiDef Tivo supports LBA48, allowing HDs larger than 137GB to be recognized correctly (it still recognizes larger HDs, but only sees the first 137GB). The most you can get for a regular Tivo is 300 hours of TV.

      For the PC based Tivo, if I get a RAID 5 card and a few 250GB HDs, I could have 1TB+ of storage - enough for TV shows and a video on demand system with a bunch of my DVDs ripped. Yes, it gets a lot more expensive, but 250GB drives are under $150 these days (Fry's ad had both PATA and SATA 250GB drives for under $150 - no MIRs).

      --
      The Doormat

      If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
    8. Re:Or by SensitiveMale · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Dont forget the monthly subscription sharges for the Tivo service.

      I haven't paid a monthly fee to Tivo in almost 5 years.

    9. Re:Or by AresTheImpaler · · Score: 2
      I haven't paid a monthly fee to Tivo in almost 5 years.

      Ok, I'm curious.. how do you manage with out the service then? I want to buy an tivo, but don't want to pay either.. :D

    10. Re:Or by enrico_suave · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ah but that's after rebate =)

      Tivo's are great (I love mine), but I really like the flexibility of rolling my own ( so much so I put up a community dedicated to building your own PVR )

      DIY is MORE about control and creativity than it is about saving a buck (you'd figure the /. OSS zealots would be more into a TRUE OSS HTPC than the linux-based but mostly propietary/locked up (series 2) TiVo box).

      Although if you are creative with existing components you can build a tivo-esque workalike pretty cheap.

      And don't forget our tinfoil hat paranoid faction, who would rather have control of who or which company's get our viewing habit data (anonymized/aggregated or not).

      *shrug* YMMV

      e.

      --
      Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
    11. Re:Or by SuicidalLabRat · · Score: 2

      It seems to me the exercise is in comparing like systems, namely, MythTV and MS's WMCE, not in justifying an HTPC build against TiVo, they aren't even parallel products. To do this, it seems reasonable to be building on comparable hardware across the test; this platform should represent an acceptable standard of technology for the application -seems reasonable to assume relatively high end componentry here. If I felt this was meant to be a statement cost : feature : market, I could see griping the cost, but... SLR-

    12. Re:Or by bhhenry · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just for clarity, that's the "lifetime" of the unit, not your lifetime. Too bad if you want to upgrade.

      --
      signature not found
    13. Re:Or by erick99 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Only 300 hours? When do you folks watch all of this tv that you are recording? I have a hard time watching a few hours a week without the help of even a VCR. I love tv, don't get me wrong. I just have no idea when I would be able to watch 300 or more hours of tv. And, I am assuming that the PVR's are sucking in more each day. I would get panicky wondering when I could catch up . . . .

      Cheers,

      Erick

      --
      http://www.busyweather.com/
    14. Re:Or by Da+w00t · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's called a lifetime subscription. Those of us who bought in back when the subscription was $99 got a great deal. I own 4 tivos, and they all have lifetime service on them. Cheaper in the long run.

      --

      da w00t. mtfnpy?
    15. Re:Or by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lifetime service fee of $300...if you go to sell your Tivo on Ebay, you're guaranteed to recoup 100% of that lifetime fee, if nothing for the hardware.

      --
      Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
    16. Re:Or by dioscaido · · Score: 4, Informative

      This LBA issue is resolved in Series 2 Tivo's (the one's they are selling for $99, or $89 if you go to Best Buy). I got mine up to 330 hours (two 160Gb drives). The sky is the limit at this point.

      Certainly, the linux/windows PVR has the plus of being able to play other media and donwloaded movies. Although I can't imagine a full fledged linux TiVo interface hack isn't in the works already to permit this functionality (Tivos come with USB, and support ethernet networking).

    17. Re:Or by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The parent poster may be a lamer that paid a lifetime subscription, but the proper way is some not-so-easy-to-google perl scripts, that scrape guide data off of tvguide.com and format it for the Tivo.

      Nice when you have more than one, in that a computer under your direct control can manage it as if there is more than one. Who wants 3 tivo's all recording the same damn thing? Besides, some things like C band tv, just aren't supported by Tivo.

    18. Re:Or by MBCook · · Score: 3, Interesting
      It's MPEG2. That's pretty good. I wouldn't be suprised to see MPEG4 in the next year or two. As for the audio, transcoding that takes no time at all.

      Yes, codecs change fast, but when you can offload 95% of the work the box would be doing, that's nothing to sneeze at.

      Besides, you could record in MPEG2, and use your now free CPU time to do the transcoding (which you can also do when nothing is being recorded). That way you get the instant gratification of having things recorded small (and your CPU could handle 2 or 3 recordings at once as long as the HD could) and you could run a low priority cron job to transcode things when nothing else is going on so you get the space advantage.

      But if you plan to backup (or just copy) onto DVDs (which are MPEG2), then recording in MPEG2 makes even more sense (because you wouldn't need to transcode to make a disc that would play in any player).

      As for the Athlon 64, yes it could handle one or two encodes in real time, but with a RAID and a few cards, you could record 4 or 5 streams with hardware encoding. Also, MythTV supports multiple front/backends. That means you can take your old PII 233, stick a PVR-250 in it, and with a little setup it would look like an extra tuner to your main MythTV box. That would only cost you $99 or the card. Your idea would require a much faster computer.

      The ideal solution would be some very fast ASIC/DSP/PGA that you could configure on the fly to do hardware encoding of any format, but that probably won't show up for years.

      Also note that a hardware encoding chip does the work much more efficently (in terms of electricity used and heat produced) than a general purpose processor like a P4 or Athlon 64.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    19. Re:Or by pyrrhonist · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I dont think there's much point in putting such rapidly changing things such as video codecs into hardware, when you can economically buy a fast enough processor with high memory bandwidth, like an athlon64.

      It's recommended to have about 1Ghz per encoder, so if you want to record two programs, and be able to watch something, you're going to need at least 3 Ghz. Even with this much power, though, there can still be glitches when viewing or recording due to load. However, with with two Hauppauges you can record two shows and watch something at the same time with the machine hardly ticking over.

      It's not unheard of to have both a Happguage and a different TV tuner card in the box as well, for when you want to record straight to a format other than MPEG.

      Also, many people choose to use a less powerful, but smaller, quieter, and cheap machine like a mini-ITX as a PVR. In this case, it's a requirement to use a Hauppauge if you want to watch and record at the same time.

      --
      Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
    20. Re:Or by timeOday · · Score: 3, Insightful
      You can buy a TiVo for $99.
      Well, that was the topic of the 2nd paragraph of the article. Not that you read it of course.

      Anyways, TiVo is always going to offer restricted functionality - after all we wouldn't want to open up the possibility of piracy just so you can do whatever you want with your own hardware.

      Then there's the fact that they monitor and record everything you do with your TiVo.

      Oh, and reserve part of your(?) hard drive to record programs of their own choosing.

      And the pesky subscription fees.

      And you can't add a second (or third...) tuner to the Tivo to expand its capabilities, or even put in a bigger hard drive without voiding the warranty.

      And of course the TiVo can't also be your fileserver, mailserver, webserver, WiFi access point, mp3 jukebox, and DVD player like my under-the-TV linux box is.

    21. Re:Or by Bob(TM) · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Depends on if you want to watch TV in the same room as your box or not. An Athlon-64 outfit with all the fans necessary to run it won't be quiet without additional expense. Likewise, it won't be the tinest box either and, assuming you leave it on 24/7, it would eat a fair amount of power.

      The PVR-250 offers onboard MPEG-2 compression which gets you decent quality and acceptable file sizes and you don't need your CPU to do all the work. It would be nice to save some of those cycles to use on playback of the recorded stream (which you'd need to do if watching live TV or a recorded program while your system was recording something else).

      You might even sacrifice some of that extraneous processing power and build a fanless Mini-ITX system. No fan noise, lower power consumption, and a tiny box to amaze your friends and fool your enemies.

      --

      The little guy just ain't getting it, is he?
    22. Re:Or by mercuryresearch · · Score: 4, Informative

      I can only echo the advice for using a PVR-250 (actually I suggest the PVR-350, which is encode and decode).

      I've got a MythTV box running on a VIA mini-ITX using the slowest CPU offered, a fanless 533 MHz C3 "Eden." With the PVR-350 it loafs along at sub 5% CPU loading. The only downside to this slow of a CPU is occasionally there's a lag in menu selections or screens that need to do a lot of database work to update, but given the power savings and the fact that the box can be fanless, it's worth it.

      Even cooler, I was able to use MythMusic to rip all my CDs that had been living in a 200 CD changer -- now I've got on screen menu, random access to the collection with complete artist/title info, instead of having to look up that a favorite CD is #153 in the changer. And I can create any playlist I want with minimal effort.

      Tivo doesn't do anything like this -- one more advantage for MythTV.

      Start adding up the cost of consumer electronic devices a Myth box can potentially replace, and it doesn't take long to make a compelling argument based on expense alone.

    23. Re:Or by whmac33 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If that's all you want then buy a Tivo.

      I have a couple friends that think my MythTV setup is neat. They like the interface, like how I can record 3 shows at once, like how I can watch recordings in the bedroom on my bedroom PC, like how I can burn recordings to a DVD, etc.

      But it's not for them. They don't want to deal with compiling and using experimental drivers that sometimes don't work right. They don't want to deal with trying to figure out why it crashes randomly or why audio ticks or how to setup the cron job to update the schedule. But this is the stuff I enjoy. It's fun tinkering. No one is out to compete with Tivo. MythTV developers wrote MythTV for themselves and shared it with the world. Users like myself have submitted patches when needed to make something work the way we want. That's what I like about Myth and why I use it. Yes I spent a lot of money on it but I didn't do it to save money. If I wanted to save money I'd borrow a book from the library. Maybe a grammer book that says when to start a new paragraph.

      Billy

    24. Re:Or by doormat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The last time I checked the Series 2 tivos still suffered from LBA48 issues. I've been reading www.tivocommunity.com forums and I havent seen anyone mention a direct-from-tivo update to the software that allows LBA48 - people have hacked it of course, to allow for LBA48 support. But its far more substantial that just pluging in a new HD.

      The whole DVDs-on-demand is the primary reason why it would be better to use a PC based PVR as opposed to a Tivo. If all you want is more TV, then get a Tivo.

      --
      The Doormat

      If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
    25. Re:Or by oliphaunt · · Score: 4, Interesting

      yeah. but then you need to factor in $20 or $30 for a tivo-compatible USB 802.11b adapter... but the reall killer app for Myth that TiVo just doesn't offer at all is the burn-to-dvd option included in the parent's spec.

      Tivo lets you play stuff back through a VCR or standalone DVD-R, but that's a half-assed solution at best. The integrated TiVo + DVD-R boxes from e.g. Pioneer are over $500 for just the hardware. add $300 for lifetime service, and that MythTV box starts to look downright cheap.

      why would you want to burn to DVD? well, because you might want to archive something on broadcast, or make copies to give to your friends. As a for-example, I'm on a masters' water polo team, and I'm fanatic about watching and playing polo. But there is never any polo on American TV... except during the Olympics! So yes, I went to Circuit City and bought a $99 TiVo with the 40-gig disk for the SOLE PURPOSE of recording olympic water polo matches. But guess what? Everybody on my team wants to watch them too, but since Tivo records the whole 8-hour block of programming, I had to delete some games from Tivo to make room for the next games. And I noticed something interesting- whatever algorithm Tivo uses to compress the video stream, it has some problems with water, especially at the lower quality settings... Often I could see rectangular divisions in the surface of the pool, and it's even worse on the VHS tapes I tried to make from the TiVo.

      When you buy a Tivo, you're buying convenience, but if you also want to buy the ability to make archival copies on DVD, you're going to spend $500 on hardware either way... and then the MythTV box does save you money because you don't have to subscribe to get progam listings.

      --




      Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
    26. Re:Or by nmos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The only real argument for putting this together is because it can be done. Which is a good reason in almost any case, this one included, I agree. To pitch a DIY PVR as though it is cheaper and easier than a Tivo is just silly though.

      I agree with the cost part of that especially because none of us know how long guide data will be available for free. On the other hand my wife has no problem using MythTV nor do friends and family. It really is just as easy to use as a Tivo. Also, adding MythMusic and MythVideo makes my MythTV setup far more functional than any Tivo.

    27. Re:Or by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You left out the price of the case/power supply. This ranges from about $40 up to $200 or so if you don't already have one. That Athlon XP processor with OEM fan requires either an additional exhaust fan set up to pull hot air away from the CPU, or a power supply with dual fans in it. You could use an all-copper cooler with a noisy, fast fan instead, though. Either way it's going to raise the price of the whole thing by about twenty bucks.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    28. Re:Or by Neon+Spiral+Injector · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why are all Hauppauge's cards 5v PCI? I have a really old 44801 that I can't use in my new Opteron machine because it only has 3.3v PCI slots. I looked at Hauppauge's current offerings and even their 350 is still 5 volt.

      I wonder how the WinTV-PVR-usb2 is, and if it is supported in Linux?

    29. Re:Or by ian+mills · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The Happaugauge card is not only worth it because of the hardware encoding, but also because it has a far better tuner and digital converters than any of the bttv cards out there. I have a MythTV box with a bttv card and a pvr-250 and the 250 video is by far better quality. Less noise, better contrast etc. If you shop around you can get them OEM for 70 bucks, which is how much I paid for mine. Way better buy then the bttv card for 50 bucks.

  2. Only 15 minutes to put hardware together? by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sheesh, it seems to take me at least fifteen minutes to get everything out of the boxes! Then I spend another fifteen putting the case together, a few more mounting the motherboard, more if I drop a screw and it gets caught in some cranny somewhere. I suppose these guys have done it alot, but that seems to be pushing it.

    1. Re:Only 15 minutes to put hardware together? by strider44 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      what has installing windows XP and SP2 got to do with MythTV on a linux box?

    2. Re:Only 15 minutes to put hardware together? by PedanticSpellingTrol · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And that's why I only buy Antec.

  3. 80GB? by ElPresPufferfish · · Score: 4, Insightful

    80GB seems pretty weak when my normal recordings are 1GB/30min. I'm building a mythtv backend right now, and I'm looking for at least 1TB of space.

    1. Re:80GB? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative
      It isn't as if cable or antenna feeds are worthy of DVD bitrates.

      If your antenna reception is poor, you need to use higher bitrates. All of that fuzz is going to compete with the actual show for bits, so you need to provide more.

      When the signal is nice and clean, you can lower the bitrate.

    2. Re:80GB? by hawkeyeMI · · Score: 2, Informative

      The PVR-250 dumps straight MPEG2 so you're kind of limited there. It can be postprocessed later but coming off of the card it's already an MPEG2. Just cat /dev/video0 > some_show.mpg. It kind of sucks because you can't have it auto-splice the commercials out, though it does skip them automatically when watching on MythTV.

      --
      Error 404 - Sig Not Found
  4. Sempron? by ciroknight · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Hell, why does the machine need such a fast processor? Does it automatically re-encode on the fly? And if not, why not just throw a cheaper Athlon XP in it and call it a day, cutting a good hundred bucks off the price.

    --
    "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    1. Re:Sempron? by Wehesheit · · Score: 2, Informative

      The sempron is just a fancy new duron with a new name. It's cheap as hell already and not really a powerhouse processor.

      --
      This P.I.G. will walk on the water, This P.I.G. will walk on the sea, This P.I.G. will walk whereever he wants.
    2. Re:Sempron? by ndoss · · Score: 3, Informative

      The pvr-250 encodes the video to mpeg2 on the fly and uses very little processing power (less than 5% cpu per pvr-250 on my machine).

      Mythtv can re-encode the mpeg2 files into other formats in the background once a recording has completed. Mythtv nices the re-encoding processes down so they don't impact much of anything else on the box.

      I have a 700MHz duron w/ 2 pvr-250's and have no trouble at all recording two programs at a time while re-encoding in the background.

  5. Just For Comparison by MBCook · · Score: 5, Informative
    I messed around with MythTV about a year ago. From what I could tell it was nice, but it wasn't usable for me (my computer was WAY underpowered for video encoding, which I knew going in). That said I've since gotten a DirecTiVo and I LOVE it.

    So just for comparison, a low end brand new TiVo is $99 after rebates. A lifetime service contract is $299. The total is there for about $400. That's still about $250 under what the box in the article is. For that extra money you could get a 140 hour TiVo and still have $50 to spend on something else.

    Or, if you have DirecTV, you can buy a DirecTiVo for about $100 and monthly service is $5 on top of your DirecTV bill. So that $650 will buy you the lowest end DirecTiVo and 110 months of service (about 9 years). DirecTiVos are wonderful machies, and can record two things at once, and it's all pure digital. I don't know the prices, but for $650 you could probably get a HD-DirecTiVo and a few months of HD/TiVo at least.

    All that said, check out MythTV. If you already have parts on hand, it would be cheaper. It's a fun little project that can do tons of stuff, and there is no DRM (always a /. favorite). It was facinating watching the development list when I did. At that time they were discussing (and testing) ways of automaticaly skipping commercials, and it was very interesting to read. They talked about blank frame detecting (but you have to be careful so you don't miss a Simpsons's "eyeball" scene), using time (commercials come at fairly regular intervals), "bug" detection (the logo in the corner), etc.

    MythTV can also show you weather, they were working on DVD and video playing as I remember, and MP3 playback. Plus you can have different frontend and backend boxes which would allow for very cool things.

    All that said, if you just want a DVR, a TiVo is probably better. If you want your own Home Theater PC that can do all sorts of stuff and you want to be able to extend it yourself, check out MythTV.

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    1. Re:Just For Comparison by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 2, Informative

      Your basic point is 100% right on, but an HD TiVo is still about $1,000.

      --

      I write in my journal
  6. Re:or just get a TiVo by ndoss · · Score: 2

    Your comment is true if all you want is a tivo box.

    I use mine as a file server (samba/nfs) and firewall/content filter. I'm also able to watch any tv shows I've recorded from any of the other desktops in my house and anywhere in my house/yard from my laptop. My box also has two capture cards and can tune 2 shows at once from cable tv.

    You can hack your tivo to do some of the things mentioned above, but then you have to buy more hardware, void your warranty, spend some time, etc.

  7. TiVo = A linux distro by KB1GHC · · Score: 5, Informative

    TiVo is actually Linux based. So this isn't the First Linux DVR.

    you can get TiVo source code at:
    http://tivo.com/linux/linux.asp

  8. Broadcast flag coming up... by stinkfoot · · Score: 4, Informative

    if you're interested in building your own PVR, you should take a look at EFF's broadcast flag page:

    http://www.eff.org/broadcastflag/

    in less than a year, it will no longer be possible to buy a PC/HDTV decoder that is free of broadcast flag restrictions.

    something to think about...

    1. Re:Broadcast flag coming up... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's the responsibility of the driver and software to enforce the broadcast flag, not the hardware. There are open source Linux drivers for many DVB cards, so even if the hardware supports the flag, open source drivers are clearly not going to enforce it. Vendors that fail to provide specs or open source drivers will simply have their products reverse engineered anyway. This has happened with many current video encoders (look at the Hauppage PVR-350 series and other DVB devices) and there is virtually nothing the manufacturers can do to stop it.

  9. Re:or just get a TiVo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm from the school that thinks a firewall box should be just a firewall box.

  10. And this is why Linux is not mainstream by spoco2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This article shows why linux is not mainstream yet:
    "We can attempt to load the card right now using the commands below:

    # modprobe i2c-core
    # modprobe i2c-algo-bit
    # modprobe tuner type=2
    # modprobe msp3400
    # modprobe videodev
    # modprobe saa7115
    # modprobe ivtv"

    And
    "dmesg also reports success:

    # dmesg | tail
    [] sys_init_module+0xeb/0x1e0
    [] sysenter_past_esp+0x52/0x79

    ivtv: No mem on buf alloc!
    ivtv: Buffer alloc failed!
    ivtv: Registered v4l2 device, minor 0
    ivtv: Registered v4l2 device, minor 32
    ivtv: Registered v4l2 device, minor 224
    ivtv: Registered v4l2 device, minor 24
    ivtv: loaded "

    Uh huh

    "# cat /dev/video0 > /tmp/test.mpg" Of course, I should know that's how you record video...

    And finally:
    "And finally, after several hours of turmoil and despair, we have installed and tested our Linux device. Its far from perfect - we cannot readily work with digital TV broadcasts, for example."

    It's for exactly these reasons that people use Windows and Macs... this sort of thing is far above the average Joe's understanding I'm afraid, and it really shouldn't be stuff they have to know as it's not user friendly, confusing and assumes far too much prior knowledge.

    1. Re:And this is why Linux is not mainstream by Jeffrey+Baker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Linux and operating systems like Linux make the trivial and the impossible equally possible. For example, good luck using a Mac to record a digital HDTV broadcast to Xvid with a mu-law soundtrack and subtitles in Farsi, storing it to a network file server attached via IP-over-1394. On Linux this will be a huge pain in the ass, just like everything else, but at least you can do it. For the people who think a Linux box makes a shitty PVR, I respond that a Tivo makes a terrible DVD player and a really bad Unreal Tournament server.

    2. Re:And this is why Linux is not mainstream by pyrrhonist · · Score: 3, Funny
      this sort of thing is far above the average Joe's understanding I'm afraid, and it really shouldn't be stuff they have to know as it's not user friendly, confusing and assumes far too much prior knowledge.

      Yeah, I know what you mean. I had all these issues with my Linux-based TiVo. It's so hard for the average Joe like me to understand, and it's not user friendly at all. Apparently you need to have prior knowledge of things like "TV", "Cable", "Schedules", and "Shows."

      Where does it end?

      --
      Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
    3. Re:And this is why Linux is not mainstream by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Unfortunately, your attitude is precisely why things don't improve.

      People who know better figure "hey, it works fine for me, you lamers should learn more."

      People who don't know better go out and buy macs or windows boxes, and never bother learning, 'cuz they already know they sure as hell ain't going to learn shit from people like you. They don't even like people like you.

      To read an attitude like yours is depressing, because while you could be doing so much more, you're simply prancing about on your high horse, thumbing your nose at the peons. It's not productive.

      I'll shut up now.

    4. Re:And this is why Linux is not mainstream by NMerriam · · Score: 3, Informative

      For example, good luck using a Mac to record a digital HDTV broadcast to Xvid with a mu-law soundtrack and subtitles in Farsi, storing it to a network file server attached via IP-over-1394.

      Good luck? It would be easier to do on a mac than a Linux box. Anything you can't find a native OS X app for, you can usually grab the unix tools and install to fill in the gaps. And you never have to recompile the kernel to get your hardware to work.

      --
      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    5. Re:And this is why Linux is not mainstream by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For example, good luck using a Mac to record a digital HDTV broadcast to Xvid with a mu-law soundtrack and subtitles in Farsi, storing it to a network file server attached via IP-over-1394.

      Hmmm...This article seems to have nearly what you're asking for. And it's nearly six months old. As for storing it to a network file server attached via IP over Firewire, you don't think the company that invented Firewire knows how to make that work? Think again buddy. And I'll second what somebody else already said about yer 2-1337-4U attitude -- there's a reason why the computer dweeb is typically looked down upon in society...

    6. Re:And this is why Linux is not mainstream by pyrrhonist · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Seems like you're only proving his point further here.

      Well, I suppose so, if you count merciless ridicule as honest user testimony.

      If you're so sure, then how about a real example of how average-user-friendly it is to setup, instead of taking the cop-out of basically saying "It's easy for me, how could it possibly be hard for anyone else?"

      Fine. How to set up a TiVo:

      1. Take you TiVo out of the box.
      2. Oh and ah, then pet TiVo affectionately.
      3. Put batteries in remote.
      4. Connect cable wire to TiVo.
      5. Set the channel switch on TiVo to "3".
      6. Connect one end of red/white/yellow wire to TiVo and other end to TV.
      7. Connect one end of phone cord to TiVo and other end to phone jack.
      8. Plug in TiVo, turn it on, and turn on the TV.
      9. Set the TV channel to "3".
      10. Follow the on-screen instructions.
      11. Record stuff.
      12. Watch recorded stuff.
      13. Drink beer. Eat chips.
      See? Easy. No, recompile of the kernel was necessary.

      The point was that the TiVo is a simple to use device that is based on Linux, and is widely used by the unwashed masses. The parent concluded that Linux isn't ready for the mainstream by citing parts of an article about custom building a machine from scratch, while ignoring the counterexample of consumer-oriented products already using Linux.

      --
      Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
    7. Re:And this is why Linux is not mainstream by rjch · · Score: 4, Informative
      "And finally, after several hours of turmoil and despair, we have installed and tested our Linux device. Its far from perfect - we cannot readily work with digital TV broadcasts, for example."

      It's for exactly these reasons that people use Windows and Macs... this sort of thing is far above the average Joe's understanding I'm afraid, and it really shouldn't be stuff they have to know as it's not user friendly, confusing and assumes far too much prior knowledge.

      However, as they pointed out in the article ("Opting for a different distribution that supports the PVR card natively would have been a better idea, but we have already gone this far...") they didn't pick the right distro. Had they chosen KnoppMyth, it would have worked damn near out of the box.

      There are good reasons for having many distros. This is one of them.

    8. Re:And this is why Linux is not mainstream by PhoenixFlare · · Score: 3, Informative

      The point was that the TiVo is a simple to use device that is based on Linux, and is widely used by the unwashed masses. The parent concluded that Linux isn't ready for the mainstream by citing parts of an article about custom building a machine from scratch, while ignoring the counterexample of consumer-oriented products already using Linux.

      Well, my bad for not reading your comment a bit closer before posting. One would think though that on a story about custom buiding a Linux PVR system, you'd comment on, well, a custom-built Linux PVR system.

      We all know TiVos are easy to use and based on Linux, but that's not the subject of this story or what the original poster was commenting on.

      The fact remains that if you want to achieve what the story is concerned with, and build a custom solution, you have to go through a lot of needlessly complex configuration that should really be automated in some fashion by now.

    9. Re:And this is why Linux is not mainstream by Erik+Hollensbe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd rather have a system designed for experts when I need it, and a system that's easy to use when I need it, rather than an all in one system where I have to be an expert when it's easy and trick the system into letting me be an expert when I want to.

      Different systems for different purposes. I don't use UNIX to play games, I use it to run servers and workstations.

      The PVR idea is neat because it seems when it's setup it's done and you don't have to touch it anymore, unless you want to make additions or upgrade. This fits more of a "server" role for me.

    10. Re:And this is why Linux is not mainstream by Medgur · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ok, I normally don't post, but this is just absurd.

      This isn't an "off the shelf" set up like an easy to use Windows or Macintosh machine, and this certainly isn't a boot and use knoppix set up. This is a hack.

      Comparing the ease of setting up a MythTV box to using a basic Macintosh or Windows install is beyond unreasonable, it's purely inane.

      Of course, you could use KnoppMyth.

  11. another source by ralphus · · Score: 3, Informative
    for those who are Fedora inclined, a buddy of mine, wrote a great article on this a long time ago for redhat 8 I think and spends a good amount of time keeping it up to date.

    http://wilsonet.com/mythtv/

    --
    Revolutions are never about freedom or justice. They're about who's going to be top dog. -- Kilgore Trout
  12. another downside to TiVo by enrico_suave · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Soon TiVo users will be able to share DRM'd dongle enabled shows because the FCC said they could (despite the NFL and MPAA's best efforts)

    Me I just edit out some commercials, burn a DVD, and go! Now only if there was something worth archiving =(

    I can play MAME, pull up local movie schedules, RSS feeds (*cough slashdot*), instant weather (no waiting on the 8's on TWC for me) on my DIY PVR, not so much with those features on the TiVo =)

    And since it's PC based, it's somewhat trivial to add new features or ideas as I come up with them (or the community writes more apps). I don't have to wait for corporate bigwigs to decide how I want to watch TV/use my DVR/PVR... I decide.

    The price you pay for the level of customization/freedom is:

    1. possibly more initial costs
    2. time/effort
    3. more time
    4 patience =)

    I think it's worth it, because I like TV/PVR's, and I like futzing around with my PC case off... and it's an another excuse to buy a dremel (for case modding)

    e.

    --
    Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
  13. ReplayTV + DVArchive - Simpler, Around Same Cost by meehawl · · Score: 4, Informative

    Or... you could just buy an ethernet-ready, autoconfiguring ReplayTV for around $400 (lifetime) or less from eBay, boot up the free software Java-based DVArchive (works on Windows 95/98/Me/NT/2000/Xp, Linux, Mac OSX 10.2.3 or later, Solaris, etc), and schedule, share, and distribute your content over your LAN or across the Internet at will. In this context, the ReplayTV box works like as a really very loosely coupled capture device with its own extensive on-board command set that can be driven remotely by the DVArchive program, either at a console or using a web browser. And unlike the Tivo's inferior HMO option, the DVArchive system costs nothing and is unemcumbered by DRM. Some select ReplayTV models even feature automatic commercial skipping (using associated XML content metatags) and let you download content from a library of several tens of thousands of shows stored on a wide distributed ReplayTV network. More info here or here.

    --

    Da Blog
  14. Not quite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Why do people always talk smack... o.k. pvr on the mac...
    http://www.elgato.com/
    I believe there's another service/hardware, but I don't remember the name.... But I do remember this....
    http://www.lowendmac.com/500/mactv.shtml
    http://www.apple-history.com/noframes/body.php?p ag e=gallery&model=tv
    http://applemuseum.bott.org/se ctions/computers/mac tv.html

    Very interesting reading... now don the tinfoil and tell us why the tech isn't really pervasive...
    Oh yeah, meant to add... I think it's cool, but too much trouble for passive entertainment for me. When I'm lazy, I'm really lazy. Just hide your remote and watch how long people will watch one channel until it turns up.

  15. Personal experience. by mindstrm · · Score: 5, Interesting

    To all the "Just buy a tivo " people - yes, if that works for you, go for it.

    Unfortunately, in many countries, Tivo is not an option.

    Tivo is also not quite as flexible.

    - Use a PVR-250 for encoding.. heck, get two. The onboard mpeg encoder is definately worth it.

    Think of it as a general purpose home PC.... I built a mythtv box for my folks.. it has xvids, records tv shows, does the weather, lets them browse photo albums (which is great when they have friends over).. it's accessible over SSH so I can upload new shows / videos / pictures to them, as well as record some of my favorite shows and download them (I live in another country.)

    They use it to listen to streaming mp3 over the stereo when they have friends over playing poker...

    Now, sure you can do all that with a PC.. yup. The point is to have this PC that's geared towards your home entertainment center rather than your desktop.. with an interface so simple an adult can use it, and a geek can tinker behind the scenes endlessly.

  16. Australian pre-packaged MythTV by zbaron · · Score: 4, Informative

    Like this. In fact, these are the guys that Aussie home brew MythTV builders get the programming info from.

  17. same old feel'n, different skills by POds · · Score: 3, Insightful

    incase someone hasnt noticed, this isnt just about saving money, its about doing it your self, which gives you great satisfaction. You dads may have had skills to be a welder, carpender or even auto machenic. When he'd come home, he'd fix the car, make a coffee table, helb build a bird avery or build a varendah (patio?). Basicly, what our dads or mums did when we were kids, we're doing right now. Only, things have changed a little and the skills too. We come home from our software engineering jobs or even if we dont have a coding job but we're still tech savy or closet geeks, much like their would have been closet mechanics? boiler makers? Anyway, it's the same old thing, doing it your self gives you great satisfaction, despite the cost, even though it should prolly work out cheaper. For me, its satisfaction of doing the job but also learning it so i can show off my skills to others :). And really, thats been going on for years and years.

    --


    Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
    1. Re:same old feel'n, different skills by HarveyBirdman · · Score: 4, Insightful
      You dads may have had skills to be a welder, carpender or even auto machenic. When he'd come home, he'd fix the car, make a coffee table, helb build a bird avery or build a varendah (patio?).

      Yeah, but the car is pretty important, and home improvements have a retun on the investment of sweat equity.

      I bought a Tivo despite being pretty damn tech savvy (I'm a hardware engineer AND software engineer BOW TO ME!) because, well, it's just friggin television. I use a DVR to reduce my time wasted on television.

      The real satisfaction is in creating something original. The MythTV thing seems more like a Heathkit approach. Follow the directions and you're done.

      For you young whippersnappers who don't know what a Heathkit was: http://www.heathkit-museum.com/

      --
      --- Ban humanity.
  18. They don't.... by AllenChristopher · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It's about instant gratification and control.

    Want to watch that Seinfeld episode with the toothbrush? You can pull it up only if you have all 100 or so hours of Seinfeld stored.

    You probably don't want to watch it yourself. You probably want to show it to someone else. "There was this great episode of such and such the other day, man, you should have seen it."

    Call it an extension of memory. It's well worth reading what C.S. Lewis said about this in "Perelandra", and of course if the text were online I could link you to the right bit.

    These sorts of people used to download a lot more music before the iTunes music store for the same reason. They want to be able to have any song, any time. Now you don't have to download the song until you want to hear it because you know the download will work.

    The music packratting is starting to fall off... you don't stockpile every kind of snack just in case you have a craving because you trust 7-11. The video packratting is just getting started.

  19. Buy foreign by BobSutan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Buy a foreign card. That will help add a little pressure to the American tech companies to stick up for us *little people*. When they start getting hit where it counts because of stupid legislation maybe next time they'll think twice about caving in so easily.

    --
    "On a scale from 1 to 10, people are stupid"
  20. Re:But how GOOD is Zap2It guide data? by The+Vulture · · Score: 2, Insightful

    (As a note to anybody else curious about the Zap2It data, it really only works in North America.)

    Before MythTV 0.15 came out, the data from Zap2It was "scraped" by grabbing HTML pages from their website and ripping the data from there. It worked, but Zap2It constantly broke the scrapers.

    With MythTV 0.15, it seems that Issac (the core developer of MythTV) and Zap2It have worked out an agreement, where MythTV users can subscribe to Zap2It's guide data for free. The catch though is that in order to continue receiving guide data, you must fill in a survey every few months. (In case you're wondering, the last survey I got was something like, "What program are you using with the Zap2It service", and "Enter any comments you have on our service").

    The guide data is pretty good, and you get guide data for 12 days (that's what I seem to get). Of course, you do have to run a script every night (although MythTV 0.15 can supposedly do this for you, it doesn't seem to work for me, so I use an entry in my crontab).

    I have noticed that MythTV, when retrieving data from Zap2It (at least on the old scraper) would actually grab data for every day (not just a one day increment), just in case there was a schedule change on a show.

    -- Joe

  21. $635? What the hell? by kbranch · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I built my own MythTV box for around $250. Athlon 2400(about $100 with motherboard), GeForce 4 MX something or other ($20 from a friend that was selling his), 80 GB HD (around $30), some WinTV tuner card ($20 on froogle), 512 MB of RAM (pretty sure I got that for around $50) and a $20 case and power supply. The NIC and sound were built in to the motherboard and I just borrowed a CD drive from an existing computer for the install, so I don't think I left anything out.

    Hardly a high end system these days, but it's more than sufficient for a PVR. 80 GB will get around 100 hours of video using MPEG4.

  22. Tivo?? No way, get a ReplayTV by jmcmunn · · Score: 4, Informative

    I have used all three: Tivo, ReplayTV, and Myth. For my money, I choose ReplayTV hands down. I currently own 2 of them.

    Replay TV is about the same price as a Tivo. And unless I haven't seen the latest version of Tivo yet, you still can't easily get the vids off of your Tivo and onto a PC. With Replay TV, it is easy. Use a piece of software called DVArchive.

    And yes, you can share recordings with other ReplayTV's of the same (or similar) model. Yes, you can program it over the web (my.replaytv.com I think it is, I never use it personally)

    You can buy a good ReplayTV 5040 unit on Ebay for about $300 last I checked. This model has automatic commercial skip, and 30 second skip if you prefer to do it manually. I have one of these models and it kicks the crap out of my cousin's Tivo simply because I can network it with the 10/100 port on the back and get stuff off of it and onto my PC.

    Lastly, if you want a bigger hard drive, there are instructions for installing dual 160 GB drives out there on the internet. I personally have plenty of room on my 40GB drive since I can archive to my PC.

    Tivo I give a 7/10, Myth I give a 6/10 (mostly because it is more tedious to set up and lacks the all around neatness in the entertainment center) and I give ReplayTV 9/10. I do wish they had the thumbs up/down type thing Tivo has.

  23. Re:bleh by The+Vulture · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Heck yes!

    I paid more than the $600 for my MythTV machine, but then again, I went pretty high end (dual PVR-250's, Athlon XP 2400+, fancy Antec Sonata case, etc.). It has more than paid for itself, in the ability to:
    1. Skip commercials without hacking it.
    2. Play my DVDs (my other DVD player is an XBox)
    3. I can use a universal remote, so that I only have one remote - mind you, I think that even TiVo has some sort of universal remote control now
    4. I can play games in MAME while recording TV shows
    5. Weather forecasts
    6. MP3 playback
    7. And more...

    My only concern is when my PVR-250 cards will be obsoleted due to mandatory HDTV broadcasts, and/or encryption.

    -- Joe

  24. I don't want a Tivo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I just built a MythTV box. It cost more than a Tivo and took a fair amount of time and effort.

    I love it. This project is not about saving money, or convenience. It's about fun. It's also about control. I'm having fun. My box does what I want it to, not what someone else thinks will sell best. If I want three tuners, I can have them. I can have as little or as much storage as I want. I can watch shows from any computer on my network. I can transcode recorded shows into any format. It's all about the freedom to do whatever I am willing to put the effort into.

    If you want to save money, buy a Tivo, it's a good product. If you want convenience, rent a dvr from your cable company. I want more than that, and am willing to spend the time and money to get it.

  25. uber-reply... by typhoonius · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Not a bad list, but you really should "splurge" on the Happguage PVR-250 card. It does the encoding in hardware, so even a low end box could easily support two tuners. With the card you put in your list, all the encoding would fall on the CPU. Not only that, I'm not sure that nVidia's personal cinema is supported under Linux. An integrated video card (on the motherboard) would do fine as long as it had TV out that was supported under Linux (and looked half decent). Wouldn't even need that if you used a monitor.

    Thanks for the tip. I'll be sure to look around more before committing to any video hardware (I'm used to building servers, so I'm in foreign waters here).

    Well, first, you didnt include shipping in any of the estimate. This is usually mistake #1.

    Like the AC said, shipping is usually free if you don't mind waiting a little longer. I think of it as turning patience into money.

    I'm mostly using Newegg to get a feel for what's out there anyway; when I actually break ground on this thing, I'll spend some more time hunting out the cheapest prices. (I guess I could've skipped a step on done this all on PriceWatch, but there's some shady shit on there; do I want a "House Brand" motherboard from some guys operating out of a pickup truck with the engine running?)

    Hmm... what's the monthly fee for TiVo... $10 a month? You'd have to wait four and a half years before you were monetarily ahead in that case.

    No problem. Clearly, this thing'll be built to outlast the cockroaches, what with buying criteria like "cheap" and "adequate" and "I dunno." I don't think you'll be laughing so hard when my PVR has to rebuild civilization.

    People blow money on expensive gaming rigs all the time when Sony and Nintendo are a step away from selling their consoles out of gumball machines. Value is subjective. If I want to spend extra cash on vendor independence, built-in MAME, hardware I know better than my immediate family, etc., then it's no skin off your ass. Hell, building computers in general is wasted capital when Dell and HP will give you a top-of-the-line PC, display, printer, and 24-hour support line with some confused Hindu guy for about a month's rent. If I have to explain the value of wasting time and money building things for no apparent reason, then I need to find a geekier clique than this. Maybe switch to Hurd and move to Tibet. Shit, people.

    Worst case scenario: I get bored watching Simpsons episodes one frame at a time, and my PVR transforms into a headless web server with a $100 video card.

    Anyway, thanks for the advice, everyone. Keep it coming since I'm just making this up as I go along.

    (Oh, and I meant 3.5 mm instead of 3.5" with regards to headphone jacks. NASA-itis.)

  26. Dear sir. plz stop teh lying by JVert · · Score: 2, Informative

    Look, I admit I use a MCE and I love it, I have another computer with a PVR card that I will probably convert to a linux pvr of some flavor this month. This article is great but damnit if they dont get something wrong. Recorded TV can be played on any MS pc with media player, it does not have to be a media center pc. Third party utilities (free, third party utilities) have been around to re-encode the dvr-ms format into other formats (mpeg and wm9 available etc.) This whole linux pvr vs MCE is like bush vs Kerry. Neither are perfect and both sides like to sling mud, but really i'm seeing a lot more crap flying from the linux side, indeed this is the place for "news for nerds", "not fair and balanced".

  27. Tivo is a ripoff, here is why: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I got a Tivo roughly 2 years ago (wasn't $99) and I purchased it because they had a special on the lifetime service for an even $100. Just after a year it broke. You have to fix the box you have, because you CAN NOT transfer service to another box, they have hard coded MAC address like ID numbers. Just sending the box in to be looked at would have been nearly $100 (out of the 1 year warranty), not to mention I would have had to pay shipping on top of that, both ways. Plus parts. I had a sony, and as soon as my brother heard he got me in touch with a friend of his who had similar problems. Turns out he had a phillips box that had a modem that went bad. Sent it in to have it fixed and it came back with a good modem, but the video card was damaged "in shipping", and phillips was going to charge him to have that fixed seperately. In the end it was obvious to me that Tivo's are designed to break or are just crappy pieces of equipment with semi-neat software feauters I never used anyway, so I went with the rental boxes built into satelite receivers.

    As for that: I pay close $65 a month for 4 rental boxes in my house (not one Tivo to fight over) one of which is a 2 in one box that can record two progrmas at once and feed two seperate outputs at once as well. If they break, no problem and no extra charge. Boxes get old and I want new technology? I just pay a small fee per box to get newer upgraded boxes. End of story.

  28. Excellent Documentation? by elmegil · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I don't know what those reviewers are smoking. Don't get me wrong; I have a Myth box, and I like it a lot. The software itself rocks. But the documentation is a huge haystack of braindumps without a map. These guys put Myth onto a box in a relatively short period of time, modulo distribution problems. That sounds to me like they've read and reread and rereread the docs enough times that they know what's where--they've done it before and don't need a map any longer. For a first time Myth user, the docs are going to blow your brain into little pieces, and it's going to take you a long time just to absorb what's relevant to your system from them unless you have a really standard (i.e. just like the developers') machine.

    Oh, by the way? I have a job already, and a family, and a life. So don't tell me it's my fault I can't digest the haystacks and make a map for the world. I'm a supporter of Myth, I'm just saying that the review does not set reasonable expectations for the effort it takes unless you're installing KnoppMyth.

    --
    7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
  29. If you want one... by meehawl · · Score: 2, Informative

    Does it have a DVD burner?

    Although I do have a couple of TB of storage on the LAN, I do of course run out of space and some burning is required. Personally, I convert most everything to DIVX and burn to CD - stil working through an odd thousand or so free-after-rebate blanks. But I hear you can get DVD burners for basically free these days.

    --

    Da Blog
  30. ReplayTV and MythTV owner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Having both a ReplayTV 4040->120GB and a MythTV setup, I think that there are some things that aren't easily quantified that lend themselves to MythTv.

    Yes, MythTV is a PITA to setup. Especially if you are using a Via M10000 w/ PVR-250 like I am. I started out with a Matrox G200 back when that was the only hardware solution supported. With the crappy via video drivers, getting hardware mpeg2 acceleration is hit or miss. Then lirc for IR Remote work is a pain too. I have it but don't even use it, just use my wireless keyboard w/ built in mouse instead ($30).

    But thosen that say replay+dvarchive is better:
    Annoying Replay problem #1: It reboots itself every day. Press pause while watching something that's already recorded, and the next thing you know you have to wait 4 minutes for it to reboot.

    Annoying ReplayTV Problem #2: You aren't watching anything, the guide is showing, whatever. A show starts recording. Replay decides that it should start playing the show immediately, scaring the bejeezus out of me. Who wants that?

    Problem #3: Who would want to burn the crap video bitrate that ReplayTV generates? Fine, it looks okay most of the time, but if you're using 480p component out, and for example watching a game with crowd shots, artifacts everywhere, even on the highest setting. I would much rather find someone else's 350MB HDTV rip on BT(which can be integrated into MythTV) than deal with a 2.5GB fullscreen version that RTV generates.

    The main thing about ReplayTV that's great, that shouldn't be discounted, is the sheer numer of settings if you set it up that way. Being able to find a show that I want in under 20 seconds is worth $10-20 to me over the life of the product. Being able to record that NOVA/NAture special at 8000 kbs is worth $10-20. Being able to play all of my mp3 collection (250GB on a separate mp3 server across the network) with an easy to use interface is worth $50-100. Playing DVDs: $20. Playing pr0n and the avi's I DL: $30. Being able to set up to record something when I'm not at home for that day, using MythWeb or TightVNC: $30. Knowing that if ReplayTV goes bankrupt again, or Tivo does so, that I'm still covered: $priceless.

    Don't get me wrong, I do like my replay. It just doesn't do what I want it to do, I have to do what it wants me to do...

  31. Not much of a guide by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yikes, are they trying to make it difficult? There's no need to compile ivtv and myth, and they send you different places for documentation. This site is a complete guide to installing Myth TV on Fedora Core 1. apt-get is used heavily, and most of the config files are available for download. I went from a clean box to a PVR in 5 hours, and that was without reading the documentation beforehand. The funny thing is, Tivo has to use a phone line the first time it runs, so it actually didn't take much longer to build a Myth box.

    Myth does so much more than Tivo: dvd, dvd ripping, music, web browser, rss, weather, pictures. Maybe some people aren't interested in those things, but I sure am. But even as a PVR Myth has already surpassed Tivo. There are more options, and it's much easier to resolve conflicts (the main problem I've had with Tivo). Then you have the fact that you can do anything you want with the hardware: dual tuner cards, RAID, etc. Yeah, it's more expensive, and a BMW is more expensive than a Civic. Go figure.

  32. Bah, too expensive.. by Cthefuture · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is what I used:

    - PVR-350 - $180

    - My old 800 Mhz P3 computer from years ago - "Free"

    - Newer, quieter power supply - $50

    - 400 GB worth of hard-drives bought over the course of a few months with CompUSA rebates - $230

    Then MythTV + Zap2It datadirect.

    So for $460 I have a 400 hour PVR. Of course it would be a lot cheaper for just a 120 hour machine (substract about $180).

    It's better than TiVo for a number of reasons:

    - I can watch the recorded shows from any computer in the house from the web interface. The web interface lets me do things like schedule shows, see the program guide, and watch recordings.

    - I can easily burn anything I record to DVD because everything from the PVR-350 is recorded in standard MPEG2 DVD format. I don't even need to re-encode, I just burn straight to DVD (fast).

    - MythTV is way more configurable than TiVo. I mean, there are settings for doing all sorts of things.

    - Things like MythVideo let me watch stuff that wasn't recorded on the machine (like downloaded items or whatever; stuff recorded from your old VHS tapes, etc.)

    And probably other stuff I'm forgetting.

    With the PVR-350 you absolutely do not need a powerful computer. I ran MythTV on a 200 Mhz Celeron system with PVR-350 for over a year. MythTV itself is kinda slow but there are a lot of people working on making it better. The video quality is excellent though. Even the "low quality" (1GB per hour) is way better than what TiVo encodes.

    --
    The ratio of people to cake is too big
  33. What about other costs? by Krashed · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Most of you forgot about the one cost that is hard to escape. Electricity is something you are going to be paying much more for with a homebuilt DVR. A Sempron based computer will probably draw ~250 watts of power on idle plus make loads of noise and not be very pretty. A Tivo draws under 100 watts, has a very quiet fan and looks great among DVD players, DBS receivers, Playstations, Xboxs, and amps. That comes out to almost $10 difference a month where I live in just extra cost to power that homebuilt DVR.

    150(Watt difference) * 24(Hours/day) * 30(Days/Month) / 1000(Find Kilowatts/hour) * .09(Avg Cost Kilowatt = $9.72

    Do yourself a favor and just pay the monthly Tivo fee. You will end up paying about the same in monthly fees just to operate the two systems but the Tivo has a much lower initial investment, looks better, easier to use, and takes a whole 10 minutes to setup. That doesn't apply to people who are constantly archiving shows to DVD in which case a DVR would be easier but even on Tivo, it isn't difficult. I just hookup my MiniDV camcorder to the Tivo for that 1 or 2 shows a month I want copied and route that signal directly to my Firewire port (as opposed to copying to tape and then back out) and that directly to DVD (burning the disc out of Tivo in realtime). Try it sometime.

  34. MythTV on Server by chip33az · · Score: 2, Interesting

    At home, I built a very small server for the house to use. It runs Debian, and I use it to power my thin client in the kitchen (for family calendaring and TV watching). I was able to install MythTV easily on the server and pop in a WinTV PVR 250 with relatively little hassle (I did one previously and knew what to expect). The benefit I get from MythTV is that I am able to watch TV on my Linux box in the den point the frontend to the server's backend. I think this is a great feature. Just my thoughts.