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Genesis Capsule Crashes; Chutes Blamed
Cyclotron_Boy writes "The Genesis probe (reported here) has crashed to the ground, near a road in the Utah desert. The stunt chopper pilots were not to blame, though. The drogue chute didn't open on re-entry. NASA TV is covering it currently. The choppers have landed near the probe, but no word yet as to the condition of the space dust." Many readers have also pointed to CNN's coverage. Update: 09/08 16:39 GMT by J : MSNBC has more coverage and a sad photo of the half-buried capsule: "The capsule broke open on impact. It was not yet clear whether the $260 million Genesis mission was ruined."
KHAAAAAN!
Here are some relevant quotes from the Spaceflight Now play-by-play. It looks like there were a number of things that could have gone wrong. Let's say it again, class... "Space Ain't Easy."
* Starting about 1045 GMT, the spacecraft spins itself up to 10 revolutions per minute. The spinning will provide the unguided sample return capsule with additional stability during entry. The spacecraft then rotates to the proper orientation for release and spins up to 15 revolutions per minute.
* Genesis will be stabilize with its nose down because of the location of its center of gravity, its spin rate and its aerodynamic shape.
* About 45 seconds after entry interface, the capsule will be exposed to a deceleration force three times the force of Earth gravity, or 3 G's. This arms a timer that is started when the deceleration force passes back down through 3 G's. All of the parachute releases are initiated from this timer.
* After one minute of atmospheric descent, the capsule should be at an altitude of 197,000 feet [...] Slightly over 10 seconds later, the capsule will be exposed to about 30 G's, the greatest deceleration it will endure during Earth entry.
* 1554 GMT (11:54 a.m. EDT)
The capsule has been spotted high over the planet!
* 1557 GMT (11:57 a.m. EDT)
The capsule appears to be tumbling!
* 1557 GMT (11:57 a.m. EDT)
The Genesis sample return capule is rapidly tumbling with no chute.
* 1558 GMT (11:58 a.m. EDT)
IMPACT! The capsule has slammed into the Utah desert after failing to deploy its chutes and parafoil.
* 1604 GMT (12:04 p.m. EDT)
Mission control says without the drogue chute and subsequent parafoil, the capsule would hit the ground at about 100 mph.
* 1610 GMT (12:10 p.m. EDT)
Recovery forces are moving toward the capsule, which has made a very spectacular crater.
(Disclaimer: I posted this in the pre-impact discussion as well.)
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
Personally, I blame the ground.
Latest reports have a 10-foot-tall fungal-like growth expanding rapidly and resisting all fire and chemical methods of containment.
Not.
But it would have been interesting.
Design for Use, not Construction!
Andromeda feeds on radiation!
Ceci n'est pas un post.
The drouge chutes failed to deploy correctly and the parafoil either sheared off or never deployed. They are concerned that the mortar used to deploy the drouge is still live, so they are treating the scene as a "Live Spacecraft".
it is better to light a flame thrower than curse the darkness. -Terry Pratchett Men at Arms
OK, so we had stun pilots training for 5 years, couldn't they dive in ala James Bond with their own parachutes, grab the capsule and use their own parachutes to slow down it's fall? I mean, if they get movie people, wouldn't it work like that in real life.
:-)
C'mon, NASA, get creative
- sigs are for wimps.
They were ticked off when we laughed at Beagle 2, so they decided to get their revenge.
I'm not normally a betting man, but I'd wager the space dust is is just fine. The containment vessel designed to isolate the dust, however... lookin' a little shaky.
Sipping my first coffee of the day, I almost spit it out when I saw "Breaking News" on CNN's site, and a picture of a man staring over a flying saucer.
:)
Ok, maybe it was. I definately need more sleep
There was some concern that the sample return capsule battery would fail, jeopardizing the re-entry. The battery was overheating, but ground tests have shown that the battery should be unaffected by the amount of heating it has endured, and should operate to deploy the parachute on reentry.
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/database/MasterCatalog? sc=2001-034A
I'd much rather NASA send up three cheaper/faster/riskier missions of which one crashes and two succeed, than send up one bullet-proof mission. So don't jump all over NASA for screwing up. If they didn't screw up now and again (on this type of mission), then they were clearly playing it too safe.
Sounds odd, but "Well done NASA". Keep it up.
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BREAKING NEWS: The Genesis Device failed. Investigators believe that the illegal substance, protomatter, was improperly used in creation of the Device, leading to an unstable core. The investigators believe this was the ultimate cause of its failure. Dr. David Marcus, head of the Genesis Project, has gone into hiding.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." - Oscar Wilde
There may be something wrong here.
15:55:26: And wow! Hey! What's this thing coming towards me very fast?
15:59:14: Very very fast.
16:00:42: So big and flat and round, it needs a big wide sounding word like... ow... ound... round... ground!
16:01:03: That's it! That's a good name - ground!
16:01:52: I wonder if it will be friends with me?
16:02:31: ***ERROR NO SIGNAL***
Dragging people kicking and screaming into reality since 1996.
You win again gravity!
If God had had a computer it would have taken him 7 months to create the earth...if he even bothered to do it at all.
"The capsule broke open on impact. It was not yet clear whether the $260 million Genesis mission was ruined."
Any time the press in mentioning the price tag in their headlines, you know you're screwed.
I have to say, this has all of the elements for a funny story. You've got NASA, you've got a probe named Genesis [for your Star Trek Genesis Device reference], you've got sand [for your Star Wars reference -- sand people, probe looking like Luke's home from a distance, etc]. You've got space dust [for your Andromeda Strain reference]. You've got helicopters [for a military reference]. You've got an impled "mission accomplished!" presidental reference.
I think the people at fark.com have all the angles covered.
...the helicopter pilot would have seen the problem, matched courses with the probe, and sent his chopper into a 100 MPH dive parallelling the probe. Someone on board would have tied a rope around his waist and leaped out, freefalling, and grabbed the probe. All the time the pilot would have been shouting out the altimeter readings... 10000 feet! 9000 feet! 8000 feet!
They would have gotten the probe on board just in time for the pilot to pull out of the dive one foot above land. Then as soon as they brought the probe back to base and got it out of the copter the charge would have gone off and the chutes would blast into the air, leaving the scientist member of the team covered with soot, while everyone laughed.
Along with a fire truck full of "Head and Shoulders".
myke
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
We were watching it live in the NASA cafeteria (GSFC) at lunch time on the tvs.. silence.. camera follows, follows, follows.. then the best collective "OH SHIT!" ive heard yelled in years. Then the cooks came out to watch and gave the best "Damn y'all dun fucked up huh?" look ive seen in years.
---------
No matter how thin you slice it, its still baloney.
There was some concern that the sample return capsule battery would fail, jeopardizing the re-entry. The battery was overheating, but ground tests have shown that the battery should be unaffected by the amount of heating it has endured, and should operate to deploy the parachute on reentry.
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/database/MasterCatalog? sc=2001-034A
Man, I can dream can't I?
....move along....nothing to see here....
Damnit, I must have misplaced a decimal point or something. I always do that I always mess up some mundane detail.
Oh, this is not a mundane detail, Michael!!
Apparently, Vertigo. From the Genesis website:
Vertigo is a small business that specializes in the development and rapid prototyping of advanced aeronautical and civil structures from inflatable shelters to parachute delivery systems to spacecraft deceleration systems. Vertigo will provide two mid-air retrieval, winch-based systems to mount in two Genesis retrieval helicopters. Vertigo is lead on the mid-air recovery flight operations. Helicopter crew provided by Vertigo are: Roy Haggard - Lead Director of Flight Operations Myles Elsing - Wing Director of Flight Operations Brian Johnson - Lead Payload Master Lynn Fogleman - Wing Payload Master The Vertigo Program Manager is Brook Norton.
I'm sure I'm not the first one to bring this up, but it's not like we've never done this before.
It's perfectly feasable
NASA: "DAMN IT!! The studpid chute didn't open"
Nick Burns: "Yeah, it's the chute that's stupid, right. Yeah it's the chute's fault.
No, no, no -- Vertigo was responsible for catching it once the parachutes were deployed. Pioneer Aerospace was contracted to build the deceleration system.
This from MSNBC: "It picked up speed rapidly as Earth's gravitational pull brought it closer, reaching velocities of 25,000 mph or 11 kilometers per second. The capsule's descent was then slowed somewhat by atmospheric re-entry." They then forgot to mention that it hit at only 100mph. I'd say hitting the ground at 100mph was just barely a "slowed somewhat". No one could ever accuse the media of overexagerating the facts!
Monitor bandwidth usage on IIS6 in real-time: http://www.waetech.com/services/iisbm/
Wrong mission. You are thinking of Stardust, which will return samples from a comet.
Genesis allowed solar wind particles to slam into polished slabs of metal; some of the particles stick and can be recovered afterwards.
Michael Richmond "This is the heart that broke my finger."
mwrsps@rit.edu http://stupendous.rit.edu
You need to RTFA's. They didnt even get a CHANCE to catch it, because the chutes didn't open.
TheHustler
http://www.elmarko.org/ - Useless bilge
http://www.asylum-games.co.uk/ - Co-Founder
It was worth it, though - the headlines were just great.
MSNBC.com: "Oops!"
FoxNews.com: "Splat!"
Santa Ana Winds: Like the Dustbowl, but with awards shows.
In the old days before video spy satellites, film canisters were recovered by helicopter snatching of parachutes. Its a well-tried technology.
--Chag
If true, it would not be the first time -- by a long shot -- that the strange behavior of spinning objects caused trouble for a spacecraft. Some of the early three-axis-stabilized satellites were made into inadvertent spinners after their launch stabilization spin made them flip upside down (so that their de-spin rockets made them go faster instead of slowing them down!). SOHO was nearly lost in 1998, in part because rotational precession rotated the craft so that the solar panels were in long-term twilight.
Here's hoping there's something left for the team to analyze. Three years in space plus ten years of planning and lobbying is a long time to wait.
Soon Spock will come back to life, and in Utah no less. Maybe he will bring logic to SCO.
Lasers Controlled Games!
Yeah, NASA TV viewers saw it unfold live, and its already been show on news networks.
TheHustler
http://www.elmarko.org/ - Useless bilge
http://www.asylum-games.co.uk/ - Co-Founder
Beagle cratered.
:)
Beagle2 cratered.
Spirit captured the flag!
Opportunity captured the flag!
Genesis cratered.
I think NASA is still in the lead.
Heard From The Capsule During Freefall:
"Oh no, not again"
And then you have to think of the correct response:
Is there a correct answer?
I watched it on nasaTV's webcast, and there wasn't a shot of the ground as it hit, more like this:
:(
Shot of sky. They're saying there's a dot in the sky, but it just looks like sky to me.
Shot of sky. One of the static bits seems to stay put more that the rest of the static.
Shot of sky with dot.
Dot becomes triangle thingy, looks like it's spinning
Spinning thing gets bigger, more in focus.
Spinning thing has a saucer-ish shape, is now seen to be tumbling, not just spinning. (voice over at this point is saying something to the effect that the parachute hasn't deployed.)
Bigger, better focus.
Even bigger, still better focus.
Ground.
It was obvious that the camera operator was focused on the craft, getting the best shot possible of it for as long as possible. As a result, the ground was very surprising when it flashed into the frame.
--
GMail invites for iPod referrals
I thought that was coverage of Clinton's operation!
The guided missile I worked on used a S and A Safety and Arming, device not unlike what is described. The "warhead" is only armed after the missile achieves a classified amount of acceleration for a period of time. This is needed to insure that the "warhead" doesn't detonated at an unsafe distance from the launcher.
It is preferable to have a spacecraft auger into the dirt, than have a parchute deploy on launch and possibly pulled the launch vehicle into a populated area.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
I thought that was coverage of Clinton's operation!
I thought that was from Kenn Starr's report on Clinton's affair with Monica Lewinsky :P
I thought that was coverage of George Bush's presidency.
From the medial package:
"Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver, Colo., designed, built and operates the spacecraft, and is overseeing the capture and return of the Genesos sample capsule."
I say that, since we're all about accountablity, that Lockheed Martin pony up the cash they lost through insufficient engineering. It doesn't matter whether is shipped on time, in budget, with purple wings, whatever - the fact is that it failed. If we pay L-M, it will be an indication that the Federal Government is simply handing checks over to corporations.
On a side note, I happen to know both Alphonzo Diaz and Orlando Figueroa, though I was sufficiently separated from them by management layers that I'm sure they don't remember me. They were both pretty nice guys. It's a shame this didn't work out for them.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Shit i would appear to have taken your post the wrong way. I thought it meant no trophies for the pilots because they failed to catch it, but you meant because they didnt get their moment of glory so to speak. Apologies, im a prick.
TheHustler
http://www.elmarko.org/ - Useless bilge
http://www.asylum-games.co.uk/ - Co-Founder
Historically, parachutes are about an order of magnitude more reliable in practice than landing thruster rockets.
Parachtues just have to fire the deploy pyro and not get tangled up, and you can have more than one in case one gets tangled up.
With rockets, you have to control the orientation so you're thrusting down, you have to measure the altitude so that you slow down to land softly, the rocket motors have to start and run reliably, etc.
Please leave spacecraft design to people who actually study it. Knee-jerk uninformed reactions aren't going to help. It broke, but why it broke and the implications and possible lessons are important. Read some more.
The organization hemmorrhages millions of dollars and they don't know where.
Compared to the 2.3 trillion dollars that the Pentagon can't find, I'd say NASA is one of our more efficient agencies.
There were two parachutes, a drogue and a main parachute. It was presumed at least through preliminary analysis that the drogue chute was sheared off during reentry (at least some telemetry that would indicate that occured). I did see something like a chute open up during the decent, but the camera was a telephoto image.
Keep in mind that more backup systems also require extra weight during lanuch (and that is dead payload weight that must be accounted for the entire mission). That is not as cheap as you indicate, plus you have to have extra systems to deal with those redundant systems, testing equipment, and the possibility that the extra parachutes might prematurely detonate deploying while it was in solar orbit during the collection phase...not something you would particularly care for in that position. I dare you to take your little garage remote into space, keep it there for many years exposed to solar flares, and have it get triggered exactly on schedule after communications blackout due to reentry. I don't think that remote would make it.
Still, the parachute deployment should be something that NASA has plenty of experience at doing. The only really unique aspect of this mission was the retreval before it hit the ground.