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New Overtime Rules Have Short Shelf Life
rwiedower writes "So the House just voted to scrap the new overtime rules that went into effect August 23. The vote was 223-193. Were the new rules designed to shaft IT workers from getting overtime? Or were they merely designed to streamline outdated rules?"
Reduce the need to pay ANYONE overtime, and shaft IT workers. Typical big business lobbying.
Maybe you think it would work. It wouldn't. I'm in a Union. It hasn't done shit for me since I joined nearly two years ago. Fuck, the Governor of MN wanted to give us a *PAYCUT* I suppose the Union avoided that...
.02
We don't get raises for another year at least. We had to pay more for our insurance co-pays. We had to have a restructuring of medical facitilies you can attend for certain co-pay levels. We had to pay more in dental... My personal favorite is that I fear striking. You know why? Because when you strike you don't get fucking paid. Perhaps everyone else can afford their mortagage while they are on strike but I couldn't. I have reserves and all that but it wouldn't last long enough for it to be benficial for me to save a couple bucks on a co-pay.
So fuck the Unionization. No one supports you when you go on strike because they are out of work or getting paid shitty. The Union doesn't pay your full salary while you're on strike so bills don't get paid.
That's my
Consider though that tech management (I mean the ones at the top of the ladder) has made the tech workplace palatable to workers without unionization by providing good pay, good food, good benefits, fun toys and the like, thereby providing a disincentive to unionization. Why should we unionize, they might argue, when we have the things a union would fight for, and we don't have to have the union to go with it? Especially when if we did decide to unionize management would start saying that they couldn't afford all of the perqs they currently provide if they had to meet the nut of a union contract.
This attitude is starting to change, though, thanks to globalization, outsourcing, the new overtime laws, (lack of) job security and the like. Groups like Washtech are working to make high tech employees aware of the issues they face and the benefits of unionization.
Someone you trust is one of us.
Who is the person/people who came up with the idea to do this?
and...
What groups will this have an impact on? Nobody I know who makes over 100k is hourly. Doctors? Yah right.
Eventually I put in 16-18 hours days and began wrecking my health and I wouldn't qualify for any extra pay anyway because I was salaried, not hourly.
If you have a record of your hours, I'd recommend a second look at the laws, as sometimes a company will tell you you are "exempt" when you aren't necessarily.
If you are in a position where you are given general goals but don't set your agenda yourself and aren't responsible for it, you can make a case for yourself.
I've seen it happen!
mefus
In Open Society, GPL Software frees YOU!
Why is it so hard for people to understand that just because you earn a salary doesn't mean you're not entitled to overtime. Under the previous rules and the new ones, a certain salary is PART of the requirements. You have to meet ALL the requirements before an employer can deny you overtime. It's a if you make this much AND you do this job AND this, then the employer does not have to pay you overtime. But if you make this much AND NOT this AND that, then you are entitled to overtime. This is something that has been taken advantage, employers brainwashing their employees to believe just because you earn a fixed salary you aren't entitled to overtime. So keep track of your hours, and if they fire you, sue for your overtime.
Salaried means that you get paid the same fixed ammount no matter how much you work, whether it be 10 hours a week or 100. Of course what ends up happening is that they shovel so much work on you to do that you end up having to work more than 40 hours a week to do what is expected of you, otherwise you get fired.
No, that is not necessarily true. Whether you are exempt from overtime really depends on how much self-determinism and supervision goes with your job. If get to select your own assignments and deadlines, are essentially allowed to work on your own with little supervision, do not have to meet any production quotas or work on a rigid schedule, then you are probably exempt from overtime.However, if your supervisor assigns you projects with deadlines, or requires to you record your time and can penalize you for failing to meet a minimum quota, or you are required to be "at work" according to a fixed schedule, then you are probably NOT exempt from overtime.
I suggest you read Overtime Pay Requirements of the FLSA before wrongfully concluding whether you are exempt or not.--- A man with a briefcase can steal more money, than any man with a gun. [Don Henley]
It's all about having a good relationship with your employer.
Having a good relationship with your employer is fine if they are sane/considerate/sensible/rational.
I used to work for a guy that wasn't. His name is Neil. I'm not hiding his name, because he still owes me $2,000.
I would pull in the 60 hours weeks, and instead of that translating into "boy, David went above and beyond this week, he needs an extra day this weekend" Neil translated it to "sweet, David is a sucker, I wonder if I can get him to work even more"
I ended up quitting, and to 'replace' me Neil pulled in an intern from a local college. There wasn't anybody left in my department except this intern, so he technically wasn't interning under anybody. But by still calling him an 'intern,' Neil reasoned that he didn't have to pay him. And whoever this guy was, he kept working there as an intern without getting paid. So Neil let everybody else go and brought in more 'interns.' Soon it was just Neil and his intern harem, and the only paycheck the company wrote had "Neil" on it.
Neil is the kind of employer that takes advantage of IT workers. And I've heard the same story from other people about other companies. I'm glad you have a good relationship with your employer, but it takes two people for a good relationship. And, I'm sorry to say, but from my experience your employer is a diamond in the rough.
Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
What you imply about unionized textile jobs moving overseas is the most ridiculous because virtually none of the textile jobs moving overseas were union jobs. North Carolina has been the hardest hit state for textile outsourcing, and North Carolina is also the least unionized state in the country. This covers almost all of the North Carolina textile business as well.
As far as the steel business, outsourcing has had very little effect on the industry. The automation of steel plants has contributed much more to steel jobs lost than outsourcing. Automation has been what has led to the decrease of steel jobs (with the same amount of steel output), with outsourcing having little to no effect.
Utter bullshit. While your statement is largely correct, the sentiments presented are hugely misrepresenting.
100 years ago, unions and businesses were at each other's throats. Both sides acted like asses.
Businesses asked for overtime rules because they were getting overrun and had to make a tactical decision. They made a hell of a smart one. Government had to make a choice or allow the trade infrastucture to collapse. That doesn't mean businesses/management WANTED them as you claim but rather were forced given union practices and the times.
You're definition of wanted is the same as saying a nerd wanted a beatdown when he asked for it but where you conveniently omit that he/she was presented the choice of the quarterback wailing on him versus the entire football team going at 'em.
What you ARE correct in is that in implementing what amounted to a legislated policy, they staved off union power to this day. But that was a GOOD THING. Since you colored your post plainly, I'll color mine--businesses enacted overtime rules to prevent further absurd mob violence by unions and to restore trade to continue, a peace which has largely stayed to this day and which we take for granted.
What you conveniently leave out is that union power was largely precipitated by threat of violence, not peaceful means or economic will. Disrupting business activities included circling workplaces to block transportation in and out, as well as threatening violence against strikebreakers (e.g. Colorado train bombing), uncrossable picket lines, and paying off public officials.
This is not to say business or the government had the moral high ground. Ridiculous practices and unreasonable antics were carried out on that side, including use of national guards, militias, etc. But neither side was exactly having rational, heated sit down talks either.
If unions or businesses pulled any of that shit today, we'd be shocked. Unions pressed businesses, businesses pressed government, now the result is taht we have intrusive overtime laws because the little boys couldn't sit down and work things out reasonably or non-violently.
In a market vacuum, your balance might work. But today's low demand for tech labor comes from a combination of many complex factors, including the increasing productivity from automation, the mobility of much labor overseas where there aren't labor price controls, the lack of motivation for any really compelling new tech, and mostly the general malaise of the American worldview, reflected in its economy. Even the foreign labor competition is complex, as it reflects subsidies by governments investing in transferring jobs from America, as well as taxes and other synthetic economics. Deriving the constraints from your logic and current conditions is not so clear at all. But the demand by management for unpaid/nonbonused overtime, instead of the existing rules that require premium payments for it, are very simply and obviously challenges to a labor market constraint, as is the controversy surrounding any rise in the minimum wage.
--
make install -not war
Check out this site for the actual rules:
p ay /main.htm
:)
http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/fair
And the toll-free number: 1-866-4USWAGE
Looking at this quote (taken from the fairpay site) it appears that we will only be out the half part of the time-and-a-half. Nowhere does it say that you would not get the straight time portion for the hours that you worked.
The FLSA requires that most employees in the United States be paid at least the federal minimum wage for all hours worked and overtime pay at time and one-half the regular rate of pay for all hours worked over 40 hours in a workweek
I checked with my ex-wife, and she agrees that this is the correct interpretation of the rules. Whether the DOL agrees or not is a different thing...
For me it's academic, so far I have managed to maintain my goal of zero hours of OT for the year
John
I dream in binary.
However, if your supervisor assigns you projects with deadlines, or requires to you record your time and can penalize you for failing to meet a minimum quota, or you are required to be "at work" according to a fixed schedule, then you are probably NOT exempt from overtime.
That is SO incorrect. Standard working hours and deadlines do not automatically qualify you for overtime.
is maybe the only excuse posible to use in order to avoid working extra hours ..
.. and the number of days have gone up to 5.
:-)
I live and work in Denmark and our working conditions are a bit different from the American.
From the first year I worked (as a programmer) I've had 5 weeks vacation every year. With 3 days extra off to "take care of the kids". The last part has been changed so people without kids can have days off as well
I do not get paid for doing extra hours, unless I have a specific agreement (from time to time) with the company. Extra hours, "within reason" are included in my salary. So, all I have to do is having an excuse to go home at a reasonable hour every day, thus avoiding extra hours. (dificult at times but it works)
Fair?
Well, the company pays my IBM T30 (a few years old now), my DSL line, my land line, and my mobile phone (usage on all included).
Dental and Health is taken care of by the State and my overall taxes last year was 45%.
I am not a member of the union, but benefit from the deals they strike anyway. If the company piss on me, I have to let them, unless I become a member and have the union piss back..
Something rotten in the State of Denmark?
not really..