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Is Science Fiction About The Future Anymore?

An anonymous reader writes "A recent Globe and Mail article looked at the state of science fiction and concluded that the future is bleak. Fantasy and science fantasy are popular but near-future predictions are not. But author Robert J. Sawyer says, 'Science fiction has never been about the future, it's always been about the present day...' 'People are looking for a simplicity in their fictional worlds where good and evil are clearly delineated, that you can't find in the real world, and that provides an enormous comfort -- and that, I think, has an awful lot to do with the reason fantasy is so popular.'"

27 of 377 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Fantasy vs SF by kusanagi374 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Pretty much. Since tech and science are already something we see in our daily lives, SF became more of an "alternate reality" than a guess of the future.

  2. Not necessarily true by bartok · · Score: 2, Interesting
    'People are looking for a simplicity in their fictional worlds where good and evil are clearly delineated, that you can't find in the real world, and that provides an enormous comfort -- and that, I think, has an awful lot to do with the reason fantasy is so popular.'

    If you take into account that Goerge R. R. Martin' Song of ice and fire series, this statement doesn't hold water. No one is so clear cut black and white in his novels and IMO that's why he has such a huge pool of readers.

    1. Re:Not necessarily true by Stinking+Pig · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In the bad and mediocre ones, this is certainly true. A good scifi writer's world-building efforts don't consume much word-count though -- the outlines are set up in a page or two, then the characters simply exist in it. Good scifi should not be harder or less enjoyable than good literature from an older societal period (I'm thinking particularly of Henry James' _Portrait Of A Lady_, a book which relies completely on societal rules that have been dead for two generations).

      A book that spends page afte page explaining technology that is tangential to the story is simply a bad book, not a sign that the sky is falling.

      --
      "Nothing was broken, and it's been fixed." -- Jon Carroll
  3. What about Raistlin? by �berhund · · Score: 5, Interesting
    People are looking for a simplicity in their fictional worlds where good and evil are clearly delineated
    If this was true, Raistlin wouldn't be such a popular character. Some of my favorite fiction books have explored moral boundaries. The Chung Kuo series by David Wingrove, for instance, has characters where you're not always sure who the good guy is, because of their human nature.
    --
    -Uberhund
    1. Re:What about Raistlin? by miu · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Raistlin wouldn't be such a popular character

      Uhm no, Raistlin is a popular character for the same that every wizard in a MUD is mysterious and powerful. Raistlin speaks to the 12 year old boy in all of us who loves Batman and Wolverine and wants to be a ninja.

      The character of Raistlin does not explore any sort of moral boundary, he is adventure story wish fulfillment in raw form.

      --

      [Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
  4. i liken it to Nosferatu by jaymzter · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wrote a paper in college comparing the elements present in the seminal German film Nosferatu to conditions in the Weimar republic at the time, and I certainly came to the same conclusion, that is, audiences using movies to cope with troubles in reality land. The parallels of the ending of the First World War with the movie's seeming rejection of moderninity (the girl offers herself as a sacrifice to slay Nosferatu), the blow of the Spanish Flu which had ravished Germany (the vampire makes his presence known in the town as a plague), and the villification of totalitarinism (all characters ultimately must bow before the relentless dread of the vampire, plus Harker is sent to Transylvania by a cruel boss, and he sets out as on a lark, but we know what became of him. I found it to be fairly interesting.
    Maybe we find it empowering when Bruce Willis is fighting terrorists and beats them with his American moxie... Opiate of the masses indeed!

    --
    If thou see a fair woman pay court to her, for thus thou wilt obtain love
  5. SF is bleak by jandersen · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Perhaps the explanation is not so much that the future is looking complicated, but simply that science fiction has itself become a tedious and bleak rattling around in repetitive platitudes?

    I personally don't think it's because people in general don't like to read about real life where nobody is 100% good or evil. Well, maybe if you're a teenager, but even so - most teenagers I have talked to recently (friends of my children - I'm THAT old;) think a lot about good and evil and are not at all convinced that things can be painted in broad strokes of black and white.

    No, I think the problem is more that there aren't any brilliant writers and/or subjects any more. Last I read SF I gave up halfway through; I believe it was one of Iain Banks, whom I normally like, but it just seemed like some dreary humdrum - like yet another replay of the same old theme, the same old political and religious prejudices and thin science. At least in phantasy there's a chance you might see a new idea, but I must say my recent experience leaves much to be desired.

    The most exciting and inspired literature I read nowadays seems to be Chinese literature. Maybe this is a question for everyone: Do you also feel that Western literature as a whole has landed in the doldrums? Have you tried something else, like eg. East Asian or perhaps Middle Eastern literature?

  6. Neal Stephenson by mental_telepathy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is the first exception I can think of to this. His writing on nanotechnology and the effects of technological advancement on society is definitely predictive. And I'd be interested to see how the sci-fi reading numbers compare to any other genre. How much of the drop in readership is accounted for by people reading less in general?

  7. Re:Fantasy vs SF by grikdog · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Jules Verne, H. G. Wells... Yup! That's hit the old nail on the cabeza. Who the hell gives spock about science anymore? Boring, life threatening, comfort eroding, rule delineating Know It All Science, anyway. Oh, wait. No, that's Engineering Fiction! Science fiction is about fantasy.

    --
    ``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
  8. Just stagnated for now by moankey · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Its hard to imagine the future or an ideal futuristic world when we have no heros. Star Wars, Trek, Blade Runner, etc... were all created by people that were kids during the Gemini, Apollo runs, possibly inspiring them and dreaming infinite possibilities and helping create the technology we have today.

    Current generation of Sci-Fi would be writers saw recession, budget cuts, unemployment, NASA becoming a big bureaucrat.

    Hopefully the XPrize will inspire the next to crank out some new and interesting ideas.

    1. Re:Just stagnated for now by GileadGreene · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Star Wars, Trek, Blade Runner, etc... were all created by people that were kids during the Gemini, Apollo runs

      Huh? Trek was first aired in the mid '60's (i.e. pre-moon landing). It seems unlikely that the creators "were kids during the Gemini, Apollo runs" since it was created (not by kids) in the middle of those programs.

      Philip K. Dick, the man who wrote "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" (aka Bladerunner) was born in 1928. And I'd hardly call the future depicted in either the book or movie the product of some "inspired" by NASA.

      I'd also add that many of the writers in the "golden age" of science fiction (Asimov, Heinlein, Clarke) witnessed the Great Depression firsthand - far worse than the "recession, budget cuts, unemployment" that you claim current SF writers have had to deal with.

  9. Re:Fantasy vs SF by kfg · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Now we have all the technology we can imagine (well almost) so we have to dream about something else.

    Ironic that it's pastoralism that we dream of now, isn't it? David Brin deals with this as something of a side issue in his Glory Season, making the story metascience fiction. I suppose somebody had to take that step and better Brin than most.

    Not that there's anything unique to the present about dreaming of pastoralism. Many of the great writers of the Industrial Revolution did that. What's different is that now it's the technologists themselves dreaming that dream.

    KFG

  10. Simplicty? by miu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Maybe the mass market is looking for simplicity, but the best of both SF and Fantasy has typically been heavy on metaphor, abstraction, ambiguity, and often features the sort of conspiracies that would made Machiavelli proud. I think it is more that people are looking for the strange and wonderful, non-thinking simplicity can be found anywhere - the intentional simplicity of a well crafted story world provides a stage to present ideas you can think about for quite some time.

    --

    [Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
  11. The Genre by Mr.+Foofy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That article is pap and pablum. Mainstream media in its representation of science fiction has NEVER been about the social issues that need to be explored. It's mostly been about the laser blasters and the battle between good and evil with the well-defined bad guy and his maniacal laugh. It's difficult to represent the true evil of the future in an hour or two on the big screen, which will be rooted in the same place it is now. Secret government activities, secret civilian organizations (militias with weapons), and disgruntled, twisted individuals in their basements with chemistry sets and soldering irons. You're never gonna see a bad guy with white skin, green hair, and a purple suit making things bad for people. Sci-fi has always had it's silly side, but Arthur C. Clarke held things up nicely, and William Gibson, Bruce Sterling, and Neal Stephenson are still writing and cranking out the ideas in print that make me ponder just fine. I don't need two hours of laser blasters and popcorn munching to satisfy my appetite for sci-fi. The writer of that article seems too impatient to research the subject he writes of. Any other authors I'm missing?

  12. it is relationships. by fermion · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I think all fiction is about relationships. Science Fiction is about our relationships with the technology we create. Fantasy is about how our relationships with each other would change if certain fanciful things were different. The emphasis on sex aside, fantasy has a lot in common with the romance novel. Of course a good novel will include a number of relationship, including those between sentient, living, and created thing.

    In fact what we may be seeing is a maturing of science fiction. The great master melded all the relationship together, even sometimes focusing on sex, into a good story that was set in the future to allow the freedom created by unfamiliarity, in the same way that novel might be set in the past. Now authors like KS Robinson and the like are creating tales that rival the greatest literature, with the aspect of future or past being a critical part of the story.

    Simplicity is everywhere in literature. We can only keep tract of some many variables, like 3-7, encapsulated, so the relationships in literature are simplified. I also believe that readers will further simplify a situation to meet their mental capacity, so even if a character or story is complex, the reader will simplify it down to their needs.

    The key difference between today and 50 or so years ago is that we are literally paying for our unhealthy relationship with technology. We have massively polluted areas of the world, obese children with adult diseases, an irrational fear of drinking tap water, among other ailments. Each of these cost us untold amounts of resources, and raises the question of whether we can develop the technology to save or get us off this planter before we use it all up.

    This is all very US centric. Godzilla clearly predicted the price we pay for the misuse of technology. But even in American writers, like Pohl, have focused on the devastating effects of unhealthy relationships.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  13. My definition of fantasy by bockman · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Fantasy (not the one about wizards and dragons, but the mental attitude) makes the difference between growing and getting old.

    I read SF & Fantasy (the one about wzards), and other books rich in fantasy, to keep growing instead of starting getting old.

    It worked quite well for the first 40 years :-)

    --
    Ciao

    ----

    FB

  14. Science Fiction Dead? by the+packrat · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Looking through the original source article in Popular Science and looking through the article, it all looks pretty depressing. Of course, purely from my own experience, I know that there is a great deal of new and interesting SF coming out, primarily set in a near-future dystpia.

    From Morgan to Stephenson to Gibson or Macleod, the world's current condition spawns a quite wide variety of near-future dyspotian visions. This might well be a statement of the perception of now. Even reasonable fantasy is increasing grim and morally ambiguous, Parker and Martin and Erikson are all perfect example of these with recent or upcoming books.

    Back to the article though, the idea that the world has been disillusioned due to the disparity of 3 years ago and 2001 the movie is laughable. The other 'fact' of decreasing magazine subscriptions is obviously a feature of decreasing literacy rates, and sound-bite attention spans. Magazines in general have seen decreasing circulations, even the ones that aren't mainly pictures.

    In short, the article is has shaky foundations, wild conclusions, and strikes me of only having relevance on slashdot so the similarly patterened 'Apple is Dead' articles can have some company. Of course, Apple isn't dead either.

    --
    Nihil Illegitemi Carborvndvm
  15. Science Fiction is... by Gondola · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've been reading all these responses by self-assumed authorities on science fiction or literature who claim to know what science fiction "is".

    Science Fiction is a generic term used for fiction that takes place in the future or using technology that doesn't currently exist.

    When you computer-chair critics try to state authoritatively that "Science Fiction is about how technological advances affect people," or whatever other label you want to use, you put an artificial limitation on something that is supposed to be free-ranging and unlimited. Our imagination and creativity are beautiful, precious things, and attempting to shoehorn the unborn manuscripts of budding authors who want to write their story their way is just plain wrong.

    Science Fiction can be...

    - An exploration of possible technological advances
    - Shoot'em'ups in space
    - The affect of future technology on society/politics/individuals/religion
    - Pulp trash
    - Satire
    - Comedy
    - And lots more..

    Any writing can be written any way the author wants. The results will be according to its worth, hopefully. The only real problem is there's so much competition to be published that good manuscripts can sit in the slush pile for years.

    Of course current fashions and trends are going to affect what gets published. Ultimately, most book publishing is for the entertainment of the ordinary person, and the book publishing industry succeeds in doing that.

    Publishing "important" work with real literary impact is a hit-and-miss proposition, and always will be, regardless of the genre.

  16. Star Wars: Science Fiction or Fantasy? by asuwish4 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This topic came up with a co-worker of mine. He feels that the Star Wars world is not science fiction, but fantasy. The reasoning here is that nothing in the Star Wars technology world follows what we on earth have coming up in the future. SInce there is no relation to earth in the Star Wars world, there is nothing to determine what is 'fictional science.' therefore, he considers it fantasy. I'm still not completely convinced of his viewpoint, but it has caused me to think about it some more... It would seem that for anything to be considered truly 'Science Fiction' there must be a relation to Earth somewhere in it's world.

  17. Mixed feelings...! by mbrother · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm a professional science fiction writer, and I have the same publisher and agent as Robert Sawyer. He's correct, to a great degree. Good science fiction -- like the literature it is -- informs us about the human condition and conveys basic truths that inform the lives of those who read it.

    There does exist, surely, science fiction with the intent of predicting the future and not much else, at least not overtly. But there is certainly a subtext present, if only to inform the minds who must enter this future world.
    My first novel, Star Dragon, got great reviews, particularly at scifi.com. One of the points that the reviewer made there was that my future was NOT bleak, and that this was a refreshing change from most recent books. Certainly there is a long tradition of cautionary tales (Soylent Green based on Make Room Make Room!) comes to mind, but there is also an optimistic tradition of mankind using its intelligence and technology to flourish across the stars.

    Somehow in recent years, and cyberpunk is probably to blame, at least in part, the dark futures of the cautionary tales have become standard even in stories not explicitly made out to be cautionary tales. Cyberpunk is style as much as content. Dark and gritty settings have emerged across the entire culture, not just in science fiction. Dragnet and NYPD Blue are both cop shows, but no one would confuse the two.

    As long as the field of science fiction is diverse enough that the interested readership can find what they like, things will be okay there. You get stories like this when there is the perception that the diversity has vanished, which would be a crime. One of the joys about reading science fiction is that you always have a chance of getting something new and wonderous.

    --
    Professor of Astronomy, Author of Spider Star & Star Dragon (Tor)
  18. Re:Some religions, yes. by fermion · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Is this funny, or sarcastic or merely ignorant? There are selected historical facts that match with the bible. The big problem with literal interpretation is the self contradictions in the stories, the multiple political directives, the politically motivated translations, and the clear allegorical nature.

    There are a great many lessons for those who wish to live a harmonous life with others. There is a great deal of ammunition for those who wish to perform selective literal extraction, usually for the purpose of justifing some horrific action.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  19. Re:Science Fiction is not about science by mbrother · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You're my hero!
    Seriously, at some level. I've just pitched a large grant proposal to the NSF for my astronomical research (on quasars). The NSF demands significant public outreach/education efforts as well. I strive for accurate science in my own novels, and do want to teach science while I entertain. I learned about relativity first from THE FOREVER WAR by Joe Haldeman, and tidal forces from NEUTRON STAR by Larry Niven. I want to learn things when I read.

    The main focus of the educational component of the NSF proposal was to establish a hard science fiction workshop to try to increase the quality and quantity of accurate science in science fiction. Science fiction inspired me, and many others, to become scientists. I want to keep that tradition alive.

    --
    Professor of Astronomy, Author of Spider Star & Star Dragon (Tor)
  20. "Sort of" correct by HiThere · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's definitely true that the basic plot of a science fiction story has to be intelligible to people of the culture that it's sold to.

    It's also definitely true that nobody can predict what kind of culture new devices will give rise to. (E.g., nobody predicted that the automobile would cause the sexual revolution. And they had decades with all the facts in front of them.)

    And sometimes people WON'T predict things that are staring them in the face. E.g., the sexual revolution lead to the spread of sexually transmitted diseases. Science Fiction and fantasy are often safe ways to address this point.

    Science Fiction and Fantasy are also frequently used as safe ways to make political points. And to warn about "if this goes on ..." (to quote a Heinlein title).

    But Science Fiction is also about addressing plausible futures, and seeing what they imply about "absolute ethics". This is what the best science fiction usually deals with (my bias!). Fantasy doesn't work the same way here, because it doesn't say anything about reality, but only about how we feel about reality. (OTOH, the line can be quite narrow between the genres. There's a series of 4 book called "The Dance of Gods", starting with volume 1 == Catastrophe's Spell (by Mayer Alan Brenner) which starts off as clearly fantasy. Magicians, elves, etc. Even Gods! And ends up by volume 4 as some of the hardest of hard Science Fiction. (I won't give it away, and I don't find the science totally convincing. But it's certainly plausible enough to hang a story around.)

    What makes a story Science Fiction is the background. (And time can turn a story from science fiction into fantasy..as we gain in knowledge.) Conventional artifices don't make a story science fiction. Stories about FTL starships, unless they are based around some novel premise, fail the test. And this includes Star Trek and Star Wars and their derivitives. They are, at best, Science Fantasy. (Note that they could be redeemed by a bit of fast talking, and a few new theories...but nobody bothers to. So this is clear evidence that they don't CARE that it's Science Fantasy rather than Science Fiction. It sells, and that's what they care about.)

    Genuine Science Fiction has always been quite rare, even within the genre. It's too easy to take some conventional solution (e.g., hyperspace drive) and use it to tell the story that you want. Even Hal Clement's "Mission of Gravity" does this, and both he and that work in particular had the reputation of writing/being "Hard Science Fiction".

    One excellent exception is George Zebrowski's "Macrolife". There've been several (10? 15?) in the last few decades, but naturally I tend to remember the earlier ones, because they are the ones that I formed the concept around. Without them, I wouldn't have known that interesting "Hard Science Fiction" was possible. And even in those, I'm fairly sure that if you looked carefully you would see fantasy elements.

    People spin fantasies by nature, and enjoy them. Anyone who doesn't, won't be able to stand most literature, much less science fiction (non-capitalized!) And without reading a *LOT* of science fiction, one won't encounter ANY examples of Hard Science Fiction. It's a continuua. (plural! There's more than one dimension.) When you say something is science fiction you are pointing in a direction in literature space, and saying "I mean the stuff you find over there", but as you look more closely "the stuff over there" breaks into a myriad of different sub-categories (mostly unnamed...where would you put Terry Prachett's Diskworld?) Science fiction and fantasy share a way of looking at the world. They aren't totally similar, but the entire spectrum has a lot of shared elements.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  21. That's Crap by mod_parent_down · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I just finished Red Mars and Green Mars, I'm halfway through Blue Mars, and I've been wildly entertained.

    Not only because the dialogue is crisp between interesting characters, but the story is really a fun story set in the Earth's near future... it seems to contradict the point of the entire article.

    I guess it must not have sold very much.

  22. Re:Artifacts of Bible transcoding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
    This is just fuckin' hilarious. The page defends the contradiction in the christian bible by saying they are errors in translation, context, or copying. BTW, it does this in a context of asserting the christian text as an authority over the muslim text.

    If we accept that the contradictions provide evidence of human errors, then how can the text itself be used as anything but a broad allegorical fiction. We can assert that at one time there was a true and unique word of god, but we now see the words attributed to god are error prone. The cited page has one hundred stipulated errors. Some of these are attributed to copying. Even from the beginning, if a man wrote down the words, then there was some likelihood of copy errors. And then we have the endless hand copying over the millennia, the translations, the adjustments to meet political realities, and all we have is a fable based on some ancient truths. The truths are still there is you look, and understand the context, but the literal word is likely lost. The noise after all this time has almost killed the signal.

    In any case, the lessons are there for those who want to listen. Three example. First, which ten commandments are we to aspire to. If we live by the meaning then we try our best not to hurt other people. If we take them literally, then we argue over the acceptability of graven images.

    Second, my favorite, is the eye of the needle. Does this parable mean that you must relinquish all you worldly good before you enter heaven, or, if your life is dedicated to acquiring stuff, you can't get to heaven. Either interpretation may be extreme, but there is a lesson in the ambiguity, and arguing about literal meaning is pointless.

    Finally is the verse in Matthew
    6:5 "When you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Most assuredly, I tell you, they have received their reward. 6:6 But you, when you pray, enter into your inner chamber, and having shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.
    If we take this literally, all those who push school prayer and the like are going to hell. However, the underlying meaning of this, as is true of many more passages, is that we do good things because of our relationship with god, and not to impress our brothers and sisters.

  23. Re:Fantasy vs SF by yog · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm also an aspiring sci-fi writer, halfway through my first novel, which deals with apocalyptic uses of nanotech in the near future (next hundred years or so). I believe the article was referring not so much to the quality of current science fiction but rather the declining interest among the general public. Analog's readership, for example, has declined dramatically, and 100K sales of new titles twenty years ago have declined to 20K today.

    So far I haven't seen any convincing arguments for why this decline is occurring. It's not even clear it's a decline so much as a shift; fantasy seems to be going strong, and Harry Potter is the poster child for a whole new generation of fantasy fiction.

    If I were to speculate (after all, we're talking about what they used to call speculative fiction) I would suggest that the Baby Boomers with their hugely influential buying habits have shifted away from the science fiction of their youth in the 50's, 60's, and 70's and are busy raising kids, saving for their retirement, and vegging out in front of the 300-channel home theater every night. There's just no time anymore for science fiction. They have grown beyond it.

    I got back into sci-fi during the 90s after a long hiatus, and while I enjoy some of it, I find the overall literary quality to be below that of mainstream fiction. I still love a good yarn but very, very few authors are capable of building a truly convincing world--Vinge comes close, Asimov is forever, I like David Brin's scientific underpinnings if not his shallow characters, a few others. Philip K. Dick and Clifford Simak are for me the greats of the 60s-70s era; they wrote straight sci-fi yarns with vision, and they chose not to get bogged down in scientific details as some of the newer "techie" authors make the mistake of doing.

    The pendulum will swing back again. The Harry Potter generation will branch out and "discover" science fiction next to the fantasy books and reinvigorate the genre. Magazines don't do very well anymore in any field, and people would rather surf the web than read, so perhaps in the future we'll read Acrobat files for $2.99. Who knows. The future is wide open.

    --
    it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
  24. Re:Fantasy vs SF by Bob_Robertson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Here's an L. Neil Smith article on the subject of this Slashdot article:

    http://www.lneilsmith.com/bulgaria.html

    Bob-

    --
    The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics