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Interview With Lead Yoper Linux Developer

Posted by timothy on from the factionalism dept.

Bongoots writes "Andy Kissner from Linuxforums.org has just posted this: 'In the past few weeks, there has been a lot of hype and controversy surrounding Yoper, ranging from insults to ruthless Gentoo comparisons. I recently sat down with Andreas Girardet, who is a key developer for Yoper, to dispell all the rumors and discuss the direction in which the Yoper project is headed.' Click here to read the rest of the interview."

42 of 208 comments (clear)

  1. Oh well by Surye · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I was excited about this for my old 350mhz celeron laptop. Unfortunately, on completely default install settings, it crashed and burned on the first boot. Back to gentoo + distcc.

    1. Re:Oh well by GreyPoopon · · Score: 2, Informative
      I was excited about this for my old 350mhz celeron laptop.

      Were the old 350Mhz celerons considered i686 or only i586? I can't remember, but I think they were all i686. But in the unlikely event they were i586-based, that is why it crashed and burned for you. Too bad. I was hoping to get some impression of how it would run on my old 200 MHz Pentium Pro. Anybody else try on a slower machine like that?

      --

      GreyPoopon
      --
      Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?

    2. Re:Oh well by FlipmodePlaya · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In the interview he stated that a LiveCD version is planned, so we will all have an easy way to see if it is appropriate for our systems.

    3. Re:Oh well by sparcnut · · Score: 5, Informative
      Were the old 350Mhz celerons considered i686 or only i586? I can't remember, but I think they were all i686. But in the unlikely event they were i586-based, that is why it crashed and burned for you. Too bad. I was hoping to get some impression of how it would run on my old 200 MHz Pentium Pro. Anybody else try on a slower machine like that?

      Celerons are all i686 class as are Pentium Pros and Pentium IIs. Pentiums and Pentium-MMXs are i586.

      I had Slackware 9.0 running on a P2-233 with 64M RAM a couple years ago and it was reasonably fast, even running Mozilla 1.4. Expect a PPro-200 to be the same or slightly better because the PPro's L2 cache is clocked twice as fast as on the P2. Slack 9.0 is mostly optimized from i386 to i586 depending on the packages, so expect Yoper to be _much_ faster.

      I'd say it would be manageable for email, web browsing, and that kind of thing but not much more. It'd make a real nice X terminal if you have some bigger boxes on a 100mbit network.
      --
      perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10);'
    4. Re:Oh well by koali · · Score: 2, Funny

      OT: You just made my day. There is a plethora of Linux 'redistros' in Spain, a lot of them based on Debian.

      Someone needs to invent Debian El Cid Campeador; bleeding edge Debian for Spaniards.

      (El Cid is a popular folk hero in Spain)

  2. Thought Police. by starphish · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Right now I am with IBM, and in my spare time I work on Yoper."

    Watch out. IBM might own your thoughts. Make sure you don't think about Yoper at work.

    --
    Yeah, yeah, yeah. The story is a dupe, the topic is boring, the facts weren't checked. WE GET IT!!
    1. Re:Thought Police. by DriedClexler · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They actually might start doing that. If you tangibly support such a project that goes contrary to IBM's interest, they could fire or even sue you. Happened to a friend of mine (not at IBM). Tread lightly.

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    2. Re:Thought Police. by zaxios · · Score: 4, Informative

      Watch out. IBM might own your thoughts. Make sure you don't think about Yoper at work.

      Just to be safe, don't think at work at all. If you didn't catch the parent's comment, it was a reference to this travesty. In this case, offtopic + insightful = funny.

    3. Re:Thought Police. by lakeland · · Score: 2, Informative

      No. US contract law is very different to contract law in other countries. Outside the land of the free we have these things called 'inalienable rights', and no contract may interfere with them. For instance, no contract can say 'you may not have children while employed here', or 'you may not work for a compeditor after you leave', or 'we own what you produce in your free time'.

      Any contract stupid enough to interfere with his free time would be thrown out of court within minutes, and IBM forced to pay all of his costs, as well as damages. I believe you don't have laws allowing the judge to do that in America either.

    4. Re:Thought Police. by lakeland · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you ever do any of your idea on company time, e.g. chat about it to colleagues in lunch time, then the company owns a share of it. My limited experience is they own a fairly big share of it.

      As an employee of a sub-contractor, I _believe_ the contract you're currently working on would be irrelevant, i.e. did you develop it while working on the sub-contractor's time.

      If you are actually working as a contractor then you're not an employee and so contracts can be more severe -- unless your work is treated as an employee (in which case you are treated as an employee by the court).

  3. This guy is an idiot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Mod me flamebait or troll if you must but his ego is way out there.

    1. Re:This guy is an idiot by jr87 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      [AG] It is not rocket science and if one has the know-how, one could tweak their Gentoo, LFS, or even Debian system to be like Yoper. You would probably spend weeks/months doing it, but after this long, possibly frustrating road, you would get something like Yoper. But instead of a week-long struggle, you can have Yoper ready within 10 to 15 minutes,which to many people is more important than a steep, frustrating learning curve. Some of the "secrets" of turning your distro into Your Operating System are:

      yeah...this kinda did it for me. Weeks and months? has he ever tried prelinking..was pretty quick and painless for me. thanks to the nice guide

    2. Re:This guy is an idiot by xsecrets · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well I guess you missed the part right before that where he listed like 5 other things than prelinking, and yes some of those other items can take quite some time.

    3. Re:This guy is an idiot by GreyPoopon · · Score: 2, Informative
      Weeks and months? has he ever tried prelinking..was pretty quick and painless for me. thanks to the nice guide [gentoo.org]

      Not only has he tried prelinking, but he has tried (among other things) applying performance-related patches, stripping the binaries and ignoring what ./configure finds and instead only including objects upon which each package is truly dependant. I think that pretty much justifies the weeks to months timeframe listed.

      --

      GreyPoopon
      --
      Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?

    4. Re:This guy is an idiot by GreyPoopon · · Score: 2, Interesting
      No, seriously, this guy is either an idiot, or has never really used gentoo. Let's look at his list here:

      Thank you for providing a rather redundant (at least for me) list of all the options you have with Gentoo. Now, tell me how long it will take for you to determine what works best for each and every package on your system. What about all of the configuration options that you CAN'T control with the USE flags? Think about it for a minute. An expert with Gentoo could probably get through everything in a few days of dedicated time (don't forget compiling), but then comes all of the testing to make sure the configuration is optimal and that everything is stable. I would guess the whole process would take a couple weeks. A novice with Gentoo would probably take well over a month to accomplish the same thing. Don't get me wrong. I'm a Gentoo user. I believe it offers the most flexibility in obtaining the ultimate performance. But what this guy is doing is much of the experimenting and testing for the rest of the community. I wouldn't be too surprised to find that most people who are willing to give Linux a try are probably experimenting with older machines, and providing a system that has many of the optimizations already included makes that process much less painful. Gentoo is not really for beginners unless they are actually trying to learn how the system works.

      If you still think he's an idiot, then I would challenge you to produce your own distribution based on Gentoo and targeted for the i686 platform that performs as well or better than YOPER in less than two weeks. Remember that you have to test everything for stability and be able to keep it up to date with periodic changes. Make sure you also check out all the packages included in YOPER so that you don't miss anything. If you can manage that, I will forever support your right to call him an idiot.

      --

      GreyPoopon
      --
      Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?

  4. I've been using it since v2 by marcushnk · · Score: 4, Informative

    and it is quite nice.. and shows some great promise.. the only thing it lacks is the number of contributers.. comon people.. get in while its hot.. add more brains to this project and make it what it should be.

    --
    "Consider how lucky you are that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far
    1. Re:I've been using it since v2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
      the only thing it lacks is the number of contributers.. comon people.. get in while its hot.. add more brains to this project and make it what it should be.

      And a spell checker?

  5. This guy rules by carambola5 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Some of the "secrets" of turning your distro into Your Operating System are:

    0.) Performance patches from Con Kolivas, i686 2.6.7 kernel, reiserfs
    1.) All original sources, minimal patches. ...

    Well, at least we know he isn't some PR person faking being a dev.
    --
    IWARS.
    People, in general, disappoint me. Politicians even more so.
    1. Re:This guy rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny
      Well, at least we know he isn't some PR person faking being a dev.
      Rather, he's a Dev faking being a PR person
  6. More pointless branching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The phrase "united front" mean anything to the linux community?

    1. Re:More pointless branching by Platinum+Dragon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The phrase "united front" mean anything to the linux community?

      Maybe not, but my hackles tend to go up when I hear terms like "unity" and "united front" tossed around, perhaps because they tend to be used by Troktskyites and other vanguardists wanting everyone to follow their way, and only their way.

      Yes, I hang around in some fringe circles. Hang around for a moment, this is going somewhere.

      An anarchist would be more concerned with solidarity between groups that share common goals--you can have tens, even thousands of different projects and groups, but they work best when sharing ideas and supporting each other instead of each group demanding that everyone else follow behind their glorious leadership.

      How might this esoteric political argument apply to software?

      I cringe whenever I hear about "the next killer distro that will take over" or silly distro holy wars over Debian vs. Gentoo vs. Mandrake vs. Fedora as "the desktop distro." OTOH, cooperative efforts like freedesktop.org, the Linux Standards Base, and some of the efforts to bridge the KDE and GNOME desktops with common protocols make me smile. In situations like these, software "solidarity" can allow for numerous distributions aimed at different groups of people to work well together because they share common protocols and technologies, interchangeable stuff when possible.

      Mind you, this submission bugged the crap out of me, precisely because the submitter came across in a combative, pseudo-underdog fashion that seems intended to bleed mindshare from other distributions in favour of one group's (or individual's) ego, rather than trying to just make a better collection of software or doing one thing better so that others can learn and benefit.

      Bah, I'm exhausted, and I'm not sure this made much sense, but there you have it--I think what the real problem facing the FOSS community is false unity versus real solidarity.

      --

      Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
  7. I'm a bit sick of Linux distributions... by zecg · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...being valued based on how 1337 they are or what other distribution they have spawned from and how politically correct its roots are re: OS ideology.

    Modern distribution should focus on a system for upgrading / installing which handles dependencies well, a base of hand-picked packages covering as many functions with quality software, making the installation process as easy and transparent as possible, building a community and encouraging its members to provide well-written documentation and lobbying with hardware vendors for open drivers (e.g. ATI).

    Also, some professional-quality design work for the website and visual presentation wouldn't hurt.

    Most everyone is going to use Linux in another 10 years (barring a totalitarian world government which bans it as a tool of terrorism) - so get on with the program, people.

    --
    .i lu doi ringos.star. xu do puku'aroroi dunli dopecaku leni virnu li'u
    1. Re:I'm a bit sick of Linux distributions... by dan_sdot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Seriously, if all the people who demanded an easy to use yet just as powerful linux distro while slagging off the rest as being too hard/a big pain in the arse actually sat down and tried to build what they wanted, we could have it by now.
      I don't think that he was saying this "this distro sucks."
      I think was he was saying was: "Who gives a crap?"
      So somebody created a new distro, wow, thats special. And what does this have to offer? Exactly what he was saying, that it super 1337. These stories come out every so often, and the /. hive mind pays the distro homage, but the thing doesn't really offer what linux really needs.
  8. What distros need to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yoper sounds neat; and to be honest, all the modern Linux distros I've tried (Mandrake, Suse, Knoppix) work out of the box as long as you're content to use whatever is included in the initial installation.

    However, as a desktop OS, there are three things every user needs that no distro provides yet:

    1. Easy installation of any Linux software. Don't give me RPM-hell, dependency hell, command-line compiling, proprietary click-n-run depositories, or any other excuses. Only the Mac does it right: you drag the icon to your Applications folder. Voilà. The first distro to accomplish this will be king.

    2. Simple, centralized, user-friendly control panels for *everything*, with smart defaults. Why does Mandrake, arguably the most desktop-ready distro, still have printer settings in PrinterDrake, printer settings in the KDE control center, and another panel full of printer settings in the KDE menu?

    3. Better support for basic peripherals, like printers and scanners. It's tough shopping for printers at Staples when you know that nothing on the shelf is likely to work.

    I'm not saying I have the solutions, but these are major problems that all regular computer users have when grappling with Linux.

    1. Re:What distros need to do... by poptones · · Score: 4, Insightful
      1) You are thinking like a geek way too much. Why the hell whould I worry about what folder something goes into? The way software is installed on linux parts of an app go into several different folders anyway.

      If you want to make it easy to install software, make a control panel app with some sanity that allows easy selection of all available software. With the exception of having four separate buttons and stupid nagscreen on each ("you just said you want to - install, remove, manage - software... is it ok if we do that now?") mandrake is pretty close to doing this. But you still have to set it up for the package repository, and the search capabilities suck. Both these issues could be fully addressed by someone wiling to create and maintain a proper website dedicated to the task and/or create a better installation panel. But it's already so very close as to be a non issue: how often do you launch software by drilling down to it's folder? I don't ever - if it's installed it's probably on my path, so I just type the name from a command line or the "Run..." box.

      2) I recently setup a friend's computer to run mdk10. She's a 40 year old mom of a teenager who spends most of her time online in mud-type forums and playing games, and she got her first system MAYBE ten years ago. The one I was working on is an HP she bought at wal-mart and it's connected to an h-p printer/scanner/copier gizmo she also bought at wal-mart. I ran the mandrake install wizard, and when it was finished I showed her the basics of using her new linux system by scanning a picture of her daughter using the gimp, retouching it to get rid of the scratches, and printing it. The only thing that didn't work was the POS lucent winmodem, which I resolved by setting her up with a new Motorola winmodem that has (proper) linux driver support from motorola.

      Lack of ability to do this universally is not a failure of linux - it's fucking amazing it even works as well as it does when you consider nearly every one of those drivers came from someone's individual dedication, not some corporate monkey's need for a weekly paycheck (although that noble volunteer may well be a corporate monkey by day). If you want better linux support for peripherals, get onto the folks at staples and tell them you need shit that works with linux. And when you find something supported by the manufacturer, make sure they know why you bought their product.

    2. Re:What distros need to do... by kundor · · Score: 2, Interesting
      1. Easy installation of any Linux software. Don't give me RPM-hell, dependency hell, command-line compiling, proprietary click-n-run depositories, or any other excuses. Only the Mac does it right: you drag the icon to your Applications folder. Voilà. The first distro to accomplish this will be king.

      Zero-install does exactly that. http://zero-install.sf.net/

  9. Slashdotted... by dan_sdot · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wow. The yoper site is already slashdotted. You would think that they would try to beef up their site before putting it on Slashdot. Where do they think they are going to get most of their users?
    I don't think that this is leaving a very good impression.

    1. Re:Slashdotted... by erikharrison · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes, it's totally reasonable for someone to beef up a server in anticipation of a third party putting a link up on slashdot. This is because Yoper stands for I CAN SEE THE FUTURE AND ANTICIPATE THE ACTIONS OF ANONYMOUS THIRD PARTIES![*]

      *This acronym is not english of course.

  10. Kinda like Linspire... by superrcat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    with them ripping off icons and interface cues from Mac OS X. I wonder how much longer their site will be around seeing that they are running a trial version of IPB Portal. Let me pull out my venture capitalist checkbook!

  11. Re:Just use Windows, for Pete's sake by slug359 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    A virus that spreads like like msblaster did is very easily possible, if someone discovered a flaw in a piece of popular software that runs on most linux machines, such as OpenSSH (please don't reply with stuff about openssh running as a user with no access to anywhere on some distros, it can somewhere, or home distros not having openssh, it's an example). You don't need root to connect to an IRC server, and listen for commands to fire packets at people.

    Also you mention email worms/trojans, why do you need to be root to start a program that emails everyone in your evolution/kmail/syphleed address books?
    All it needs is the ability to connect outwards on port 25 and read your address book, like your email client running as your user does.
    It could even drop a DDOS zombie into your home directory that attacks people with your ping binary (forked off multiple times).
    Additionally it it could add itself into your bash_profile/x startup file so it starts when you logon.

    Yes, it couldn't affect other users on the local machine, but it would still spread and affect the user that opened it, just like running an email virus on Windows as a restricted user would.

  12. Re:Debian is the future by Kenja · · Score: 4, Interesting
    From three years ago.

    "Red Hat is the future. Well, maybe not Red Hat proper, but Red Hat derived distros such as whatever are it. period. Sorry, the games over now. Everything else will fade and Red Hat and it's derived distros are handle every_single_complaint I've ever had."

    Sounds silly now.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  13. Re:Debian is the future by AhaIndia · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here is my experience.... I started using Libranet (a debian derivative) which had some very good reviews. After some upgrade cycles my system just became more and more debian and less Libranet.
    Debian is good and number of packges are huge... but then I tried Yoper .... Yoper is way faster than any other distro ... it gives you all you need to start using your destop for your work ....
    The packages in Yoper repository are less but all are complied with usual Yoper optimization turned on.. so If I install any package from Yoper repository it wont slow my system down....
    Yoper comes with KDE desktop by default... I installed gnome from Yoper repositories (apt-get install Ygnome) just for fun ... and wow .. it was the fastest Gnome desktop I had ever used....
    I think Yoper has great future if the team somehow manages to maintain the quality and increase the number of packages available...

    --
    ~Aha~
  14. Re:One Question by AhaIndia · · Score: 5, Informative
    I am a Yoper user. I downloaded Yoper 2.1 iso and installed Yoper on my notebook.
    Important points about Installation
    1) Text base installer
    2) Default boot-loader LILO, with Grub as option
    3) Partition type can be ext(2,3) or reiserfs
    4) there is no step for chosing the packages (mentioned in the article)
    Configuration
    1) Detects most of your hardware automatically.
    2) Launches Sax2 for X configuration (yes, it uses XFree86, not XOrg, yet)
    Yoper Desktop
    After installation, you'll have a KDE desktop, with (hopefully) all your hardware (network, sound, video etc.) working properly.
    First thing that will surprise you, will be the speed. Even an old hardware will become more responsive.
    Now you can update the system using apt (Yoper uses RPM packages and apt RPM for easy updates)
    #apt-get update
    #apt-get upgrade

    If you want gnome, then
    #apt-get install Ygnome

    Other information
    It comes with...
    1) kernel 2.6.8.1-3
    2) KDE 3.3
    3) Gnome 2.6 (installable from repositories)
    4) Sax2
    5) YoperConf (configuration utility to manage your system)
    6) OpenOffice
    ...
    And yes, it is so fast that I can play quake3 (windows version demo) with wine (not wineX, just simple wine) without any problems.


    Some more comments on azeemarif.blogspot.com


    --
    ~Aha~
  15. Our own worst enemy by thunderpaws · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I find Yoper to be a great step in the advancement of Linux. Yoper, Linspire, Mandrake, and others I'm sure are marketing Linux distros that are easy for Windows users to install, use, and upgrade. Andreas has done an outstanding job and should be applauded. I have been very pleased that my wife and some friends are now happily using Yoper and are now free of the horrible frustrations that are Windows. Linux is about choice, and having fine choices such as Yoper for average home computer users should be supported and promoted. While I would prefer that my friends an family were all using Macintosh, I would never advocate they use my favorite PC OS, Slackware. With so many more people using Firefox instead of IE, there is a growing need for consumer level Linux distros. So far Yoper seems to me is one of the best.

  16. Fuckwit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Either the interviewer or the Andreas guy is a stupid fuckwit.

    1. Stripping does not improve runtime performance. Load performance is only marginally affected. Since the debugging data and comment crap is not used unless you are....DEBUGGING.. it doesn't have any effect on runtime performance. Because, Linux is demand paged, usually the pages of debugging crap won't even get into memory. Now, stripping might still be a good idea if a) you don't care about what you are stripping b) you don't want to waste secondary storage space.

    2) Prelinking does not preload libraries, or at least that is a very misleading explanation. Prelinking is simply like a form of caching to get around the slowness of the ELF linking rules. ELF linking is "slow" because the lookup for symbols depends on the link order of the libraries and multiple libraries can provide the same symbol, and the hash function mandated by ELF sucks ass. So prelinking does it once using the general algorithm and essentially saves the results and the checksums for all the libraries. The checksums are stored so that if one of the dependencies changes, the normal slow generalized linking is done and everything still works correctly. Prelinking does affect runtime performance at program start, but it has nothing to do with core loading.

  17. Here we go again... by BrokenHalo · · Score: 2, Insightful
    No, seriously, this guy is either an idiot, or has never really used gentoo.

    Another obligatory post from a Gentoo zealot.

    I don't have any particular beef against Gentoo (except that I don't use it because I have too many machines with different architectures), but this kind of message strikes me as clawing for trendy-geek points. If you want to be a true geek, you might consider rolling your own (Linux From Scratch, in other words). Following a series of instructions from a recipe-book doesn't qualify.

    As far as the individual points you mention are concerned, most are available with any decent distribution, and the remainder are easily implemented from the command-line.

  18. Re:One Question by Bungopolis · · Score: 2, Informative

    There is nothing special about being able to play a Windows binary of Quake 3 with Wine on a Linux machine. Most people report that Quake 3 Windows runs faster with Wine on Linux that it does in Windows. Remember that Wine is not a CPU emulator, it is a compatibility API. Most Windows software runs either faster or at the same speed as it does on the beast itself.

  19. Re:Wasted Time by trewornan · · Score: 2, Insightful
    This is exactly what Open Source is about:

    Don't like any of the distros out there - roll your own! Then if you want to you can make it available to anybody else who wants it - very nice of him to do this. Don't like his distro - don't use it! Only like certain bits - take the code for those bits and use it in your own distro or submit a patch for whatever your chosen distro is!

    Why is this a problem . . . the more the better, good for him!

  20. Got benchmarks? by Rex+Code · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Slack 9.0 is mostly optimized from i386 to i586 depending on the packages, so expect Yoper to be _much_ faster.

    Slackware is already optimized with -mcpu=i686, and has been for a long time (yes, even Slackware 9.0). The fact that it also uses -march=i486 really doesn't slow it down, since very few things make use of the extended opcodes.

    Since processor optimizations are often touted as a major advantage, I'd be interested in knowing a few programs where the difference between "-march=i486 -mcpu=i686" and "-march=i686 -mcpu=i686" is measurable. I've been unable to find any so far.

  21. Personal Mission by BillsPetMonkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    my personal mission in life, which is to unseat the Microsoft monopoly.

    So it's not to make a grat Linux distro then?

    Shame.

    --
    "It's not your information. It's information about you" - John Ford, Vice President, Equifax
    1. Re:Personal Mission by dfj225 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't know why so many people make it their mission to defeat Microsoft. I think it sounds really bad when you are asked about your operating system that you are developing and you start spouting off about how Microsoft is evil and they need to fall. To me, it seems childish. If you think Microsoft is evil, thats fine. If you use that as inner motivation to work a full time job, then come home and make a free linux distro, even better because I could probably never do something like that. However, judging by his article it seems like his goal is to make a free version for everyday users and have "enterprise" class software or something more customized for corporations. If I was looking for something to run on my servers, I would probably want a distro that seems like it comes from a professional source, not someone who just wants to topple a mega-corporation. I think he should ignore the success of MS (at least publicly) and concentrate on ways to do something innovative and better than than other distros and better than what comes out of Redmond. Helping this guy with his personal vendetta is not good motivation for me to use his product. Being able to get a great distro from him is.

      --
      SIGFAULT
  22. Re:One Question by AhaIndia · · Score: 2, Informative

    I was just giving an example.... well, you find my example wrong ...
    Ok.. another example ... I used gnome 2.6 on debian (unstable) and it was so slow on my system (not the latest hardware, a PIII) that I used to wait for mouse movements ... but on Yoper it is fast enough to be usable ....
    And as the Yoper lead developer says...there is no magic trick.. any experienced linux person could have made debian as fast as Yoper using techniques mentioned in the article.. but Yoper gives this performance out of the box ... and thats my point !!!


    --
    ~Aha~