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Intelligent Transportation Systems

An anonymous reader sends us a link to this story about the U.S. Department of Transportation working on Intelligent Transportation Systems, a long-range plan to build various sorts of intelligence into the national road system. Likely this will result in better traffic monitoring, lots of traffic planning data to analyze to help prevent traffic jams, and less privacy for everyone. The article has a paranoid bent; although they're not wrong that the system will likely facilitate privacy abuses, I wish the author had been a bit more hopeful about possible system designs that would still help alleviate traffic problems without enabling snooping, because obviously such a system could be built if the political will was present to do so.

46 of 233 comments (clear)

  1. Gotta take the bad with the good sometimes... by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Right now, "smart cars" that can drive themselves are confined to specially-designed test tracks because they're basically stuck operating in a vacuum of information... if cars and roads were able to communicate with each other, we'd be halfway there to having the car take over the highway driving of itself.

    Imagine stopping your car at the stop line on the way to the major highway, and simply inputing into the car that you'd like to be dropped off at exit 32A, and then relaxing as the car waits for a suitable break in the traffic flow to bring the car into the stream, and then at a rapid speed taking you to the exit while you're free to read a newspaper.

    Of course, the Minority Report scene where once your car is told to take you to the police, that's exactly what it'll do would become possible. However, if the police ever do have a warrant to arrest somebody wouldn't we want technology to tell the police where to find the person whenever possible? Afteral, warrants aren't random things, some judge has already seen enough proof of something illegal happening to warrant bringing the person in.

    1. Re:Gotta take the bad with the good sometimes... by Stile+65 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sure, until some script kiddie breaks into the car of the 'h0t b4b3x0r' two blocks over and has it deliver her to some place where he and his greasy-faced little friends can do what they want with her.

      I like this idea already!

      --
      I claim first use of "Error No. 0B" - or "No. 0B error." It'll be the new ID 10T!
    2. Re:Gotta take the bad with the good sometimes... by justMichael · · Score: 4, Insightful
      ...and then relaxing as the car waits for a suitable break in the traffic flow to bring the car into the stream...
      One of the best parts of this system, you don't need to wait for a spot to merge, the system will make an openeing for you to merge into.

      No more people on the freeway that don't understand that if you merge as a zipper, traffic continues to flow smoothly.

      -- Sex Toys...
    3. Re:Gotta take the bad with the good sometimes... by chill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem isn't with when the police have a warrant, it is when they DON'T have one.

      You know, like with the boxes attached to cell phone trunk points that allow the FBI to record any phone call. SUPPOSEDLY they need a warrant, but I've had several telco CO techs tell me there is no method for checking that. The FBI guy shows up, punches in numbers to his black box and they pick up the tape later. No one checks.

      Even if they asked for a warrant, they aren't qualified to tell if one is fake or not. Hell, a Japanese language insurance form may do the trick.

      -Charles

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    4. Re:Gotta take the bad with the good sometimes... by serutan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Instead of a highway that communicates with the car, which would mean the car could only auto-drive on intelligent highways, I would rather put the money into making the cars smart enough to drive anywhere and let the roads be dumb.

      This goes along with the idea of making wheelchairs that can walk up and down stairs, and giving them out to handicapped people, rather than building freaking ramps everywhere.

    5. Re:Gotta take the bad with the good sometimes... by justMichael · · Score: 3, Insightful
      If the lane bein merged into is already "full" (the spacing between the cars is the minimum safe spacing for the current speed) any additional cars entering the lane will result in a slowdown no matter how you merge them in.
      True, but if the flow is controlled by the system and not humans doing stupid things, it can make sure that lane is never "full" by utilizing the other lanes.

      I'm not saying it would always move at max speed, but it would flow much smoother.

      If you have ever seen what a freeway looks like from altitude it starts to make sense. I have seen the 405 in West L.A. from one of the near high rises and it moves a lot like an inch worm. Mostly because of the people making irratic lane changes and refusing to leave room for a car to merge into.

      -- Sex Toys...
    6. Re:Gotta take the bad with the good sometimes... by AmericanInKiev · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Infrastructure is a relationship between the vehicle and the medium, you really need both.

      Whhat's needed is kids smart enough to stay out of the way of dingbat cars "avoiding" fixed objects.

      AIK

    7. Re:Gotta take the bad with the good sometimes... by rainer_d · · Score: 3, Interesting

      > So what are you worried about? Evidence
      > collected without a warrant is inadmissible in a
      > court case.

      Yeah. But what if there is no court ?

      http://www.cato.org/dailys/08-21-03.html

      http://web.amnesty.org/report2004/usa-summary-en g

      "What worth is a phonecall Mr. Anderson, if you cannot speak"

      Rainer

      --
      Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
    8. Re:Gotta take the bad with the good sometimes... by phazethru · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It amazes me that folks who work with computers every day are so willing to trust their lives to them.

      It amazes me that folks who work with people every day are so willing to trust their lives to them.

      People are unpredictable, erratic, spaztic, emotional, and generally insane. And those are the good ones! I'd take computer controlled driving any day. Computers wont ride your ass at 95 mph flashing their lights at you (sorry, I was only doing 85 in the 55, jeez). They also wont change lanes without turn signals, forget to check their blind spots, and talk on their cell phones. It seems to me that the abolition of these last three annoyances would warrant a switch to automation.

      --
      "I am the Black Mage! I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down!" ~8BT
    9. Re:Gotta take the bad with the good sometimes... by BasilBrush · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah. But what if there is no court ? Then you are screwed whether there is vehicle tracking or not. Meanwhile in the non-paraniod world, people realise that a world with more proof available on peoples actions is one where more innocent people can be excluded from suspicion, as well as more guilty people being caught.

    10. Re:Gotta take the bad with the good sometimes... by rainer_d · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > Meanwhile in the non-paraniod world, people
      > realise that a world with more proof available
      > on peoples actions is one where more innocent
      > people can be excluded from suspicion, as well
      > as more guilty people being caught.

      I would like to believe that, but I've got my doubts.
      I know the feeling when one's been the victim of a crime - you want to use all possibilites to draw-in leads to the criminals.
      Like when we had a physical break-in in the company I had worked with sometime ago.
      Due to the fact that they also stole some servers that were monitored by nagios, I could pretty much pinpoint the time when it happened, so I came to the idea that it would be kind-of cool to be able to cross-check the mobile-phones who have been checked into the local and surrounding GSM-cells at around the time and correlate this with their movement-profile. The area is pretty much dead at night and anything moving in, staying 1-3 hours and then quickly moving out would have been suspicious)
      (I wasn't directly involved in the investigation, and police wasn't very interested anyway - just a break-in, so nothing in this direction happened)

      But a lot of innocents would have been hit by this, people who did nothing but happened to be at the wrong time at the wrong place.
      Is it "right" to snoop into other people's lifes, possibly suspecting/arresting them just to catch a criminal ? When does the end justify the means ?

      I also got pissed-off about this, because I had thought of checking the nagios webinterface that night (no email-alarm configured, due to firewall-restrictions and no 24x7 service anyway). But I didn't do it. Could have caught them 2h before they set-off the alarm. Grr. ;-)

      Rainer

      --
      Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
  2. White House by MikeMacK · · Score: 3, Funny
    a shadowy government agency that doesn't respond to public inquiries about its activities is coordinating a plan to use monitoring devices to catalogue the movements of every American driver

    The White House?

  3. Total privacy ends at your doorstep... by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Remember, your right to total privacy ends the moment you step out of the house. Your car already bears a linkable-to-its-owner token in teh form of a license plate. Many of us has willingly added another intentifying device in the form of an electronic toll payer such as EZ-Pass.

    1. Re:Total privacy ends at your doorstep... by SydShamino · · Score: 4, Insightful

      /again...

      You don't get to be "private" in public, per se, but I do feel it is important that you be able to be "anonymous" in many cases.

      "So, how can you be anonymous when you have a license plate?" you might ask.

      Simple, there are 300 million people in the country and, at any given time, no one -cares- to read your plate and track where you are. If you commit a crime, or if someone with a similar car committed a crime, then sure, a police officer might see your car and check your plates. But, if they don't match, the officer will move on. The event is eventually forgotten and there is no "proof" that the event ever happened.

      Cameras that record (or, in this case, machines that monitor your location electronically) change that. 25 years from now, someone can go back to a camera (computer checkpoint) and see who passed in front of it last night. This where anonymity is lost.

      Let's assume you buy pr0n from a shop. Your license plate is visible to all who care to look, but again, -no one cares-. Now add a "911 cam" with a tape recorder, and, at a later date or with the use of more computers, the names of every person who ever visited the store can be retrieved. There goes your political career.

      Let's assume you go to church. Again, outside of the church itself -no one cares-. But, add a camera, and the government knows everyone who visted a certain mosque, ever. Or, they know everyone who attended mass last weekend.

      In summary, yes, if there is reason to care, the government can already track you in public. But this takes the efforts of a human, which means it is rare, costly, and, most importantly, not permanent. Eliminate human involvement from the monitoring and it becomes routine, pervasive, and, worst of all, permanent.

      ------------

      One last thing:

      >> Many of us has willingly added another intentifying device in the form of an electronic toll payer such as EZ-Pass.

      Suppose there was a freeway exit in your town. The only thing at that exit was a pr0n shop. Would you use the EZ-Pass to pay the toll at that exit? Do you think everyone in the country would? Or would you prefer to pay cash for that spot?

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    2. Re:Total privacy ends at your doorstep... by davidsyes · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, but is it legal for me or you or anyone else to collect imagery of the vehicles, their occupants, plate numbers and locations?

      I'm not even suggesting tapping the state and creditor digital networks. Just tap into any public, high-resolution web cams, log the known whereabouts of any vehicle, look for repeat logs, interpolate or extrapolate the likely activities undertaken, and then display it for public consumption.

      Even without adding the "interpolate or extrapolate the likely activities undertaken" part, there'd be major hue and cry.

      Now, if the public wants a privacy buffer that costs the government MORE money, they could ditch their cars and take mass transit. Up to 1/2 the surveillance system is real, the rest being fake, due to costs. So, what could but won't do it is if some major force "ripped up the automobiles" the way the oil industry ripped up the cable car and trolley tracks.

      If we could get people out of their cars by vastly improving the flexibility and availability of transit pods, such as FlexCar, where you ad-hoc reserve and rent a car and drop it off whereever is convenient but only for a few hours at a time, then more people could be diverted to mass transit.

      But, because America is so vast, the oil and auto industries seized an opportunity, and look what it's gotten us: those two industries ALONE are the probable culprets for the rampant and abyssmal divorce and infidelity problems we have. Automobiles and autonomy allowed the traveling salesman to basically have a woman in every city, not all that different from a sailor having a woman in every port. But, I digress...

      If busses were more spacious, allowing for grocery shopping and cart space, if they were more cab-like in on-call/ad-hoc settings or just similar to those in Hong Kong, which are small but have large entry doors, then people would have less need for a car. But, to justify doubling or tripling the amount of public transit vehicles on the road and in greater frequency with better pickup/dropoff spots, cities would need to be less greedy with their revenue accession schemes, and counties would have to be less greed with property tax schemes. Cities would definitely need to encourage and support more comic and entertainment acts, movie venues, and design a "Vegas"- or "Roppongi crossing" or "Kowloon"/"Taipei" like setting that bustles with neon, glitz, fun, food, and more. Tokyo I heard is called a city that never sleeps, and 24/7 pretty much whatever material thing you need can be found and bought.

      Here, we're too rigidly limited by noise ordinances and other regulations, some for good reasons. But, with the horizontal sprawl, the me-me-all-mine-no-you-can't-peek attitude combined with the ever-enlarging vehicles, houses grow to a point, and even with cities shrinking the lot sizes, cities here are greatly less dense than say, Tokyo, which by 1998 had some 40 MILLION people living and working within just 20 miles of Tokyo!

      At any rate, something needs to be done about our love affair with the automobile, the ridiculous number of vehicle registrations per license (when one person has 5 non-business vehicles), when homes have 5 or 6 vehicles crowding street, and public transit is incompatible with ad-hoc needs of a populace.

      Maybe the answer is to create new circular, 15-25-mile-diameter cities with hubbed entertainment zones, spoked residential corridors, and sectored manufacturing centers with public transit mandatory and POV (privately-owned vehicles) prohibited inside the 25-mile zone. Monorails, private/5-person automatic/railed cabs, and trams networked with escalators and moving sidewalks or ski-resort-like transport chairs could do wonders. The only vehicles used inside would be law enforcement, medical, construction, residential bulk-goods transport, and utilities related things. Even still, high-speed utility pods or shuttles could remove the need for those, too, if distributed police, medical and fire-suppression substations are thoughtfully planned. A

      --
      Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  4. Unintelligent Idiot Systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    see also: Slashdot

  5. Mods, anyone? by Tanktalus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ok, typically I see people advertisng mods for their iPod, XBox, PS2, or refridgerator, and I shrug thinking I'd never bother doing that.

    However, this is quite different. If someone posted mods for their 2006 SAAB, I'd be more than interested in figuring out how to use that to patch my vehicle to become anonymous.

    <shudder>

  6. It will never work, because... by Sheetrock · · Score: 5, Insightful
    People are behind the wheel, and people drive like idiots.

    In the ideal traffic network, everybody would drive at approximately the same speed with a fair cushion of space between each car and faster traffic in the left lane. That careful balance is destroyed with the first SUV driver that's constantly swerving from lane to lane trying to get an extra five or six seconds cut off the trip (not to mention that these large vehicles generally clog the road even when driven normally.)

    To improve traffic, we need to continue putting the emphasis on low-fuel consumption and on quality mass-transit. At least until we get robotic cars that operate according to some sort of centralized traffic planner.

    --

    Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
    -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.




  7. Seattle has some smart freeways... by funny-jack · · Score: 3, Informative

    Anyone who lives in the Seattle area and doesn't check the traffic conditions before they hit the freeways is missing out.

    It's a nice system, and they're constantly (although slowly) expanding it.

    --
    You probably shouldn't click this.
    1. Re:Seattle has some smart freeways... by CubeDenizen · · Score: 2, Informative

      Houston has a similar traffic map. You can even view parts of the highway from post-mounted cameras and click on areas where accidents have happened to find out the status. It's very useful for planning trips (especially around rush hour).

  8. What about older cars? by TuxMelvin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How do they enforce this among drivers of older cars? What if I drive a 67 Mustang, or a 89 Grand Am? My car was made in 1995, and I love it... I'll drive it until it's undrivable. What do they do with me?

    Do they force me to buy a new car? What if I can't afford it? Do they force me to install this equipment on my car? Perhaps it might communicate with the onboard computer, but this doesn't solve the problems of older cars without one.

    I'm not really worried about people tracking my every move, to be honest. I'm mostly worried about the government tracking how fast I'm going. Most people don't really care about privacy issues, but people aren't going to buy new cars if they tattle on you every time you do 75 on the Interstate.

    1. Re:What about older cars? by Alsee · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How do they enforce this among drivers of older cars? What if I drive a 67 Mustang, or a 89 Grand Am?

      Phase 1: New cars have some "smart" features such as automatically regulating car-to-car spacing and speed and picking up GPS or other data. We are seeing the beginning of this today in luxury cars.
      Phase 2: Some major arteries implement the equivalant of current "HOV" lanes you are forbidden to enter except with a new computer controlled auto-pilot car.
      Phase 3: Some major arteries go exclusively computerized.
      Phase 4: The entire highway system goes exclusively computerized, relegating older cars to side-streets.
      Phase 5: Ban those old dangerous polluting vehicles from public roadways altogether. (They will tighten emmision standards on new cars along the way.)

      Remember that they are planning ahead to at least 2022 in some of these discussions. A 67 Mustang would be 55 years old by then. There just isn't going to be much opposition to banning antique polluting death-traps form disrupting the flow on automated public roadways.

      I'm not really worried about people tracking my every move, to be honest. I'm mostly worried about the government tracking how fast I'm going.

      No, the *only* thing that will be available for the government to track will be your every move. Once you merge onto the automated roadway you will no longer have any control over the speed of the car. There will be no speeding to report because it will not be physically possible to speed (short of illegally "tampering" with your car's control and safety systems).

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  9. Just better traffic lights please... by Chris+Carollo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Personally I'd be happy with traffic lights that were just a little bit smarter. Like:

    1. Not turning yellow when there is ONE more car remaining to make a left turn.
    2. Trying to prevent cars from waiting multiple cycles in general.
    3. Doing very short green lights when there are only a few cars waiting.
    4. Adjusting timing based on time-of-day and traffic patterns.

    There have been attempts to "smarten up" lights here in Austin, but half the time they just end up misreading the situation and doing something wacky like giving a special left turn green for 30 seconds when there's no one waiting to turn left. Couple that with some of the nation's longest red lights, and you get one of the nation's highest rates of red lights being run.

    Even a good web-based feedback mechanism where the public can point out poorly timed lights would be a huge benefit.

  10. Doubt it by StevenHenderson · · Score: 2, Funny
    Call me cynical, but they can't even sync up the stoplights in my city so I don't get stopped at every damn light.

    Fix that nuisance, and maybe I will believe something greater can be pulled off...

  11. driving slow in the passing lane, turn signal on by mcmonkey · · Score: 2, Funny
    the U.S. Department of Transportation working on Intelligent Transportation Systems, a long-range plan to build various sorts of intelligence into the national road system

    Instead of building it into the road, how about putting some intelligence behind the wheel? What we really need is *HONK* HEY! Watch it buddy! I'm trying to /. here!

    What was I saying?

    80% of Drivers think they are Above Average

  12. Mobility is important for economic well being by G4from128k · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Imagine a world in which employers could only hire people within walking distance of the company. The quality of the workforce would go down and many people would be stuck in jobs that suck. Imagine a world in which the only goods you could buy were those found at tiny neghborhood shops within walking distance. The selection and pricing would suck.

    The farther people can comfortably commute to work, the better the match between employer and employee. The farther people can comfortable travel to find goods and services, the better the selection and economies of scale. Current transportation systems (cars, buses, etc.) let people travel greater distances, but introduce stresses and uncertainties (traffic jams). If Intelligent Transportation System can increase the average speed of travel or reduce the uncertainties in travel times, people will enjoy less stress in life, find better jobs and find better goods and services.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
  13. Right to Privacy? by erick99 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sometimes I feel like the Right to Privacy groups infringe on my right to enjoy and take advantage of some truly incredible technology. If we can put together an intellingent roadway system that saves most of the 42,000 deaths a year, I am all for it. I am not trying to flame the discussion and I truly do understand the issues at hand. However, some of this technology is pretty good and we should consider, thoughtfully, the advantages before stomping the life out of it.

    --
    http://www.busyweather.com/
  14. This is a good, forget privacy issues by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 2, Insightful
    To all the nuts who cut me off, slam their brakes in front of me, drive at 150 MPH in a school zone or 30 MPH on the highway....I would gladly replace the lot of you with SkyNet and yes I don't mind if the government knows where I am going.

    As for the privacy nuts, recall that you have this little thing called a license plate that police can already use to pull down your life history from their cruiser, and this plate is being photographed already to stop red light runners etc.

  15. about privacy: hypothetically by deathcloset · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Would you feel less worried about privacy if you could be guaranteed that certain information gathered would and could only be evaluated by a computer system - and would never pass before the eyes of an human individual or group of individuals?

    If, hypothetically this system were 100% secured with, oh say, perfect quantum encryption.

    this is hypothetical, ok.

  16. ITS is NOT the solution by Entelechy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...because it doesn't address the REAL problem. The real problem isn't accidents and inefficient driving. The real problem is that there are simply too many drivers on too few roads. If ITS is purported to solve other problems, like fuel inefficiencies due to poor driving patterns and accidents, then great, but ITS is advertised as the solution to congestion. NOT

    Read a new study out from Deloitte research titled: "Combating Gridlock: How Road User Pricing Can Ease Suggestion". I won't try to summarize it here, but if you have 10 minutes, read it:

    http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/research/0,2310,sid% 25 3D1000%2526cid%253D28906,00.html

    --
    ~sig~He who waits for opportunity to knock will never hear the doorbell~end sig~
  17. What a waste of money by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 5, Insightful

    U.S. Department of Transportation working on Intelligent Transportation Systems, a long-range plan to build various sorts of intelligence into the national road system.

    Translation for the car industry lobby-unaware:

    Many roads are filled to capacity. Most people don't have the physical ability to react quickly enough if they were asked to drive closer to each other, to cram more cars per mile and more car passages per hour. As a result, we auto-makers have lobbied the powers that be to start a program to develop a system to take away control of their vehicles from their human owners/drivers and into the hands of the car computers, or the USDOT's central computer.

    Of course, this will be ruinously expensive both to the government, to equip thousands of miles of thoroughfare with computer trackers (or whatever it'll be) and to the consumer, to equip their new "auto-autos" with the right tech wizardry, not to mention new raised roadtaxes etc... BUT BUT... we get to manufacture more cars, which means keeping jobs in the US and keeping the economy going (yeah, right...) and, more importantly, keeping the cash flow in our auto industry CEOs going.

    Hint: cars that drive very very close to each other, and follow a road to a tee, and consume very little compared to today's automobiles, and don't need a parking spot, and bring you right into most major cities, already exist: they're called a train, and they've been around forever.

    Europe, and most of the world proves that moving people by train is convenient, ubiquitous, and quite livable. The United States proves that lobbying from powerful industries can kill viable, more sustainable transportation solutions very effectively.

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  18. WOW... 'a LITTLE paranoid bent' ??? by InfinityEngine · · Score: 2, Insightful

    From the way that article was written, you would believe that tin-foil is staple in that author's fashion wardrobe... Semi-Intelligent Transportation is a definate need for the future and the expanding populace desires to keep driving personal automobiles... Just how would this author suggest a realistic approach to the automation of high-density traffic routes to improve safety while reducing or maintaining timeliness? seriously now... "They'll know you're due for a transmission repair and that you've neglected to fix the ever-widening crack that resulted from a pebble dinging your windshield." Transmission repair? Cracked windshield? WHO CARES IF ANYONE KNOWS THIS CRAP.

    --
    My fantasy involves a direct connection from my computer to my skull.
  19. All that's needed by The+FooMiester · · Score: 2, Interesting

    All that's needed are some sensors in the roads to tell when they're occupied, just like at redlights. Count the cars as they go by; note the average speed. Do this over several miles of interstate, and you can predict where traffic is going to back up, at which exits and such. A drastic drop in speed indicates some sort of problem on the road.

    We don't need AI in cars driving us around, nor do we need rfid tags in our cars. We need intelligent planning as far as highways are concerned.

    --
    The previous has been a secret message to my comrades.
  20. What of motorcycles? by Shivetya · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One thing that worries me, as a motorcycle rider, is where do we figure in? Are we lost in a world where a few seem hell bent on control at any cost?

    Granted riding on the slab isn't my ideal way of point A to point B but I have to question, just how many roads will I lose access to if "controlled" becomes the norm? (slab = interstate)

    I can deal with items like EZ-PASS and the like. I already have access to HOV lanes, regardless of the logic of it. I am just curious where bikes fit in.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
  21. Smart cars could lead to a better infrastructure by jubei · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Smart cars and roads can easily track movements, but what I want is to do away with most private vehicles in favor of many, many automated buses and taxis. Have a request button at city hubs and intersections. Have some sort of anonymous payment system.

    Every time I am on the highway, it seems like an awful waste for all the cars going one direction. If the passengers piled into fewer cars or buses, it would do a lot to help reduce emmissions and road costs. Having the cars automated lowers the operating cost.

    In fact, we could already emulate this model to a certain extent if hitch-hiking was socially acceptable. Need to go to a city a few hundred miles away? Head toward the highway and hitch. Give the driver a few dollars to cover gas and the inconvenience.

    If hitching was socially acceptable, it wouldn't take any time at all to find a ride, we would save the environment, and maybe make new friends.

    Too scared to hitch or pick someone else up? Are you too scared to ride next to someone on a bus, train, or plane? The only difference is there is a person with the responsiblity of piloting the vehicle. Smart cars could remove this responsibility.

  22. This article is bull by smitty45 · · Score: 3, Informative

    At least, about how the DOT does ITS research in some sort of vaccuum.

    The research that has been going into ITS has been happening for years, and it's been going on in the same building as the rest of the DOT agencies research projects.

    I know, because I worked there.

    There are a LOT of things that the US government does with respect to transportation safety and efficiency, and no one pays attention to it. The fact is, the USDOT has been doing excellent research on a lot of topics that takes the (at least US) auto manufacturers *YEARS* to adopt or evaluate. Because it's like this:

    NHSTA and Federal Highway come up with very smart ideas and research. State budgets and car manufacturers fight these good ideas, tooth and nail, because they cost money.

    Lee Iacocca and Chrysler didn't come up with airbags, the USDOT did, years before.

  23. Re:Ok by mikvo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's got to be one of the most paranoid articles I have read in a while. I work for my state Department of Transportation in the Intelligent Transportation Systems (ITS) division. And yes, there is a national architecture. Virtually every state has a state or regional architecture based on the national architecture. And while there may be those who have thought of the "snooping" potential, that certainly isn't the goal. You claim there is no public pressure for it. Well, there is a constant stream of complaints about the traffic conditions and weaknesses in the transportation system. ITS is an attemt to improve that and respond to the growing demand to improve our nation's roadways. The use of ITS technologies has a significant impact on increasing the capacity of existing roads, and reducing accidents. Hundreds of thousands of dollars, and dozens of lives are saved annually through the use of technology on the roadways in my city alone. Not to mention the reduction in polution and saving travelers like yourself time by keeping the traffic flowing. This isn't some clandestine attempt by the government to find out whether you've had your windshield repaired lately. Extreme care is taken to ensure that these systems are not used to identify and monitor individuals. Let's face it: technology is becoming an increasingly central part of our lives. It isn't going away. Let's not fight it. But let's work together to ensure that it is used responsibly and effectively.

  24. Woo woo - Personal Rapid Transit by Colin+Smith · · Score: 3, Informative

    Could be put in place today. Basically it's information theory applied to mass transit systems. It's the only public transport system which promises to ammeliorate traffic congestion on the roads at a remotely reasonable cost, though it isn't going to completely replace the car. The traditional mass transit systems are massively expensive, inefficient and inconvenient in comparison.

    Read up on it:
    http://www.gettherefast.org/
    http://www.cprt .org/
    http://faculty.washington.edu/~jbs/itrans/P RT/
    http://www.acprt.org/

    American PRT system:
    http://www.skywebexpress.com/

    UK PRT system:
    http://www.atsltd.co.uk/

    --
    Deleted
  25. ITS has many applications by SirWhoopass · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The problem with a train is that you need high population desnity along that route. This isn't all that common in the US, which is sparsely populated compared to much of the world.

    ITS applies to rural areas too. I work for the ITS Institute at the University of Minnesota. It's not like ITS is a new thing. It's been around for more than a decade. There is a too.

    An example of rural ITS work is driver assistance technologies (like heads-up-display) for snowplows and emergency vehicles (police, ambulance). Driving across a rural farm road in a blizzard can be quite difficult. We developed a HUD system that projected an image of the road, based on DGPS location information.

    I'd like to add that I'm not against trains or mass transit. Certain areas of the US can utilize trains effectively, many already do. Personally, I think trains are great for urban areas. In Minnesota, we've finally opened our first urban rail line since the street cars disappeared 50+ years ago. It has surpassed all expectations for passenger levels. Now the people who claimed it would never have been used now claim that the expectations were artifically low. It isn't just the "car lobby". There are people out there who actually fear mass transit as if it's a plot to take away their cars.

    1. Re:ITS has many applications by SirWhoopass · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We've done some of the autopilot systems here. They have a range of uses. Using them to help congested freeways is certainly one of them. It fits more into the sprawling metropolitan area (Atlanta, Minneapolis) than a truly dense urban area (New York). Trains do have the disadvantage of needing transit to and from the station, and a lot of growth in the US is in sparse sprawling suburbs. These areas require people to drive 20 miles from their house to the transit point, and then ride the transit the last 10 miles into the heart of the city (I'm not claiming that this is a good model, it's just the way things seem to be).

      We have developed autopilot systems for trucks and buses. In Minneapolis, buses are allowed to drive on the shoulder of the main highways to avoid congestion. The problem is that the highways were not designed for this. The bus is 9 feet wide, the shoulder is 10 feet wide, often with a concrete barrier at the edge. Not much room for error. The autopilot system we built helps the driver stay within the shoulder, but the driver retains control.

      My point was that ITS spending isn't all about working on this futuristic autopilot system. And a lot of the spending towards that end is in pieces that have other applications now, even if there is a vision of a "Minority Report" style atomated highway system in the future.

      A lot of the funding, for all purposes, is in jeopardy as the focus is now "homeland security". A lot of transportation researchers are scrambling to make their research applicable to that security (or at least appear applicable). The future of funding is leaning towards things like fertilizer trucks that can detect they've been driven into a major metropolitan area and shut down automatically.

  26. Better idea? by multimed · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Why not just put the sensors on the roads instead of the cars. Make them solar powered with rechargable batteries, and communicate wirelessly via a mesh network. They shouldn't need that complex of circuitry and in mass production, should be relatively cheap. Closer together for more congested areas, say maybe every 1/8 mile and maybe every mile in lower traffic areas. You can track traffic flow, without having to track each individual vehicle. As far as the safety stuff--well the magic computer driving the cars is just stupid and won't happen for a very long time if ever.

    But it should be simple enough to have the sensors broadcast a signal when traffic flow drastically drops off. Hell you could have the things broadcasting constantly for a computer in cars to hear. You could instantly get a status of the next few miles and what the average speed is.

    As long as each sensor is only sensitive to read the number of vehicles that pass by it and not any further data about the vehicle (make, model, color or plate number) it could give pretty much all of the benefits of the system in the article without the privacy concerns.

    --
    Vote Quimby.
  27. Why this won't happen soon by Yokaze · · Score: 2, Informative

    Not necessarily the technological challenge. A highway is far from being a vacuum of information. It is a fairly standardised enviroment with many constraints and fairly predictable behaviour. Cars have been able since the late 90s to drive more than 90% of the time to drive amongst normal traffic.

    The main reason is, companies don't want to be liable for the risk.

    --
    "Between strong and weak, between rich and poor [...], it is freedom which oppresses and the law which sets free"
  28. Calm down, we're talking about the Government. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I actually work for one the state versions of these "Shadowy Government Agencies". ITS is just the monitoring of roadway conditions for the most part. They just use fairly simple techniques to record how many cars are on the road at any given point.

    We're not talking about RFID chips on vehicles, we're talking about simple magnetic loops that toggle as a car drives over it. Very simple.

    Some shipping trucks are tagged for fee purposes and such, but that's about it. Really you'd be blown away at how slowly traffic technology is evolving. Remember, the government is a beuracracy, they move slower than you'd believe.

    Really it's the corporate world I'd be looking at, they have much better ways of tracking you, through credit cards, websites, and the like.

  29. They exist in other places too! by antdude · · Score: 3, Informative

    See my list of good traffic map sites:

    Traffic.tann.net/.
    Sigalert.com.
    Metrocommute.

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  30. Re:Ok by Sylver+Dragon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Extreme care is taken to ensure that these systems are not used to identify and monitor individuals.

    This is that part that the article's author was complaining about, and is something that is unavoidable. Consider for a moment how such a system will have to work, if it will track individual vehicles. Is it going to be tied to a license plate number? If so, it's trivial to trace it back to a specific person. Just a unique random id? Still not a problem, if you look at more than a few days worth of data on a particular vehicle, it would be very easy to come up with it's home, which gives you an address, and that links you back to a person. The only way that this can possibly not invade a person's privacy, is by not tracking individual vehicles, and I will bet that is not going to happen.
    Now, this isn't to say that tracking individuals is all bad. As long as there is very strenious judicial oversight, and very, very, very (yes, I wrote that three times on purpose, let me add one more for emphasis), very harsh penalties for a breach of trust, it might actually do what it's being advertised for, without the privacy problem. Unfortunatly, considering that several large coporations seem to be hot on this idea, you can bet that the data is going to be available to too many people to actually prevent privacy intrusions.
    Before I would ever allow this type of system to be in a car I own, I would need a lot of stuff to reassure me that it is more than just another way for the government and industry to invade my privacy.

    --
    Necessity is the mother of invention.
    Laziness is the father.
  31. They Are Already Tracking You!!! by _A_Mad_Scientist · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Uh, how many of you drive cars with a cell phone turned on? With the location based services the phone companies have, it is easy to triangulate your position, speed, and heading. Overlay a map and they know where you are. Another reason to turn off that phone and drive. I think I should build a new car, and call it the TEMPEST. Either stop emitting all of your electronic signatures, or live your life like an open book.

    --
    Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle lucid dreaming.