Slashdot Mirror
Ballmer Says iPod Users are Thieves
A 'music thief' (apparently) writes "According to Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft: "The most common format of music on an iPod is 'stolen'."
He appears convinced Microsoft will lead the way in Digital Rights Management and also believes Microsoft will steal a march on Apple in making the digital home a reality because Apple "doesn't have the volumes".
"There is no way that you can get there with Apple. The critical mass has to come from the PC, or a next-generation video device," he said."
They stolds it frums us.
meet kettle.
That's exactly how you win customers -- by alienating them.
Per Square Mile, a blog about density
M$ systems sell very well. M$ peripherals, not so much. No amount of FUD, or lawyer-posturing, will get an M$ audio system into people's pockets over the iPod. It's too late.
"The dew has clearly fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning"
I really don't know why Balmer is so mad at Ipod?
He really seems to love his...
...is 74.8 stolen copies of Windows XP Professional.
Beep beep.
I took that comment as Steve Ballmer saying more digital music is pirated then not. Does everyone on this board actually disagree with that?
Or did MP3s only become popular *BECAUSE* the music was stolen in the first place anyway?? And so the trend
Mp3s -> Mp3 Players -> ???? -> Profit ?
I may not be speaking for the masses, but the key thing about having my music in my player of choice (Archos AV340) is the fact that I can take the music from *any* source, and because I choose to download the mp3s rather than re-recording from original Vinyl, ripping from CD, remastering from cassette, 8track etc Is purely a matter of my taste and value of my time.
Prevent people from using music easily that they ALREADY LEGAL OWN in one format or another, and see that format/player go the way of the BETAMAX.
I find I buy more music now that own an iPod. And I am not implying that I ever "borrowed" any previously. I have about 700+ tracks on my iPod and when the feeling moves me I go to iTunes and buy another album. The ITMS library is growing, too, and now includes a sizeable collection of the works of Brian Eno (great for coding, writing specs, so on.) I don't know where Monkey Boy Ballmer gets his info, and wouldn't want to go there. Unless all the interns at Microsoft trade music freely ...
My user name was a mistake. Input wasn't restricted, my bad.
From the article:
"We've had DRM in Windows for years. The most common format of music on an iPod is 'stolen'."
Because everybody knows windows is all about security. If you put a pirated mp3 on a windows box, the drm system won't allow you to access it. All the windows boxes running eMule and Kaaza are merely figments of your imagination. They're iPods. Honest.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Since I got my iPod and used a decent music service iTunes, there have been no 'shared' music on my player. Balmer thinks that Apple cant get the job done - can he say iPod for Windows? As long as Apple continues to make accessories for other OS'es, they will have no problem competing.
My
1) Roughly what percent of your music collection is unauthorized files from P2P like Kazaa, FTP, etc.?
2) Roughly what percent of your music collection comes from sources like iTunes Music Store, eMusic, etc?
3) Roughly what percent of your music collection comes from shareable sources like Creative Commons-licensed music?
4) Roughly what percent of your music collection comes from rips of your own CDs?
5) Roughly what percent of your music collection comes from rips of friends' CDs?
(and what am I missing?)
Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
When you see an iPod on the cover of Newsweek with a large peice inside about how Apple and Jobs have created one of the biggest fashion trends this century, one which rivals the introduction of the Sony Walkman in the 80's, I'd say that Apple have been pretty damn successful in pushing the concept of the "Digital Home".
I've not see anything exciting come from Microsoft in a very long time. I don't believe people are all that interested in the sort of "Digital Home" Microsoft seem to envision, either.
from Ballmer:
"My 12-year-old at home doesn't want to hear that he can't put all the music that he wants in all of the places that he would like it," he joked.
Translation:
"When I tried to use my kid's iPod on a recent family trip, my son told me to shove my Barry Manilow CD up my ass."
it has to do with the fact that the RIAA wants DRM, and the user doesn't. so Ballmer's looking after the corporate interests ahead of the user interests.
What's funny is that he doesn't realise that new entertainment formats are mostly demand driven. People don't like div-x (the old one, where you had to "connect" to get movies), people don't use it. Same with DVD-A and SACD. Invariably, formats with draconian restrictions on them don't work. And although he wants to label people thieves, there's a very good reason why the iPod is popular, and MS's DRM isn't. The irony is Ballmer himself points it out in the article - "My 12-year-old at home doesn't want to hear that he can't put all the music that he wants in all of the places that he would like it". This isn't about stealing, it's about fair use. 12 year olds just want to do whatever they want to do with their music - like the rest of us. If stolen, free music is the only way we can get there, then so be it. Why pay for restrictions, when freedom is quite literally free?
It makes me laugh, the 12-y-o son of the man running the most powerful IT company in the world gets it, but Ballmer himself doesn't.
Which oddly enough is a theme repeated in the second article - his vision for the digital home - which involves "converged devices that integrate video, audio and computer technology". He's pretty much ripped off Steve Jobs' digital hub strategy from two years ago... and then he goes on to say: "There is no way that you can get there with Apple."
Sorry Steve, the only organisation you can be guaranteed to not get there with is Microsoft. It makes poor copies of good products, labels consumers who want freedom "thieves", and calls out organisations who innovate as not being good enough.
-- james
If someone has a budget for buying CDs/music each year, say $300, then even if they download extra music illegally, no-one is losing out as long as the consumer is still spending what they have budgeted to spend.
Music is a commodity these days. It isn't special like it was in the 50's. People expect music at all hours, but it isn't priced right to meet the current usage of music, so people download the extra music they need to fill in the gap.
I don't see how Microsoft can claim any kind of moral superiority over Apple. Apple at least had the decency to offer reasonably priced legal music quite some time ago. Per-song pricing allows you to take a small risk to discover new music, or just get the 2 good songs on a modern pop album that are any good. MSN Music is a lot more recent.
I can only assume that Microsoft will be designing Media Software that will not play non-MS-approved content. Otherwise how can it tell whether a song you are playing is something you ripped yourself, or downloaded? Surely you could burn a CD and re-rip if Microsoft enforced that type of requirement?
These big companies are only pissed off because online music sharing allows people to discover new music that isn't on the big labels, and then spend money on that music instead of HypedTrash. Most studies show that music purchasing hasn't dropped since file sharing started, at the worst it fluctuated in line with the economy, at best it has actually soared over what it should have been.
...is stolen.
So what if "[you've] had DRM in Windows for years" Microsoft? Windows did anything but halt the 13.6 million Napster users "stealing" music, et cetera.
"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson
I think the higher-ups at Microsoft have completely lost the sense of how to do business in a healthy market.
That's why everything Microsoft does fails or produces massive losses when not being pushed by the PC domination.
Just look at Hailstorm. Or XBox. Or Windows/Alpha.
So Steve, STFU and GTFO. The reflected light from your forehead is blinding us.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I don't know if Ballmer has been paying attention.
My roommate is a die-hard Microsoft fan. I don't just mean he uses Windows over Linux, either. I mean he will get compromised because of a failed update, have to reformat and reinstall, and he *still* favors MS. Why? Because of usability. Linux does not cater towards him and it certainly doesn't offer the gameplay. Mozilla/Firefox, despite what I try to tell him about security, is laughable. After all, why should he use a browser that takes 4 seconds to load a 2 second page?
Now, despite all of that, he uses iTunes. Why? Because where other "free software" fails, Apple does not. They provide a method for him to get what he needs when he needs it. And not only that, but he pays money hand over fist for services/music through iTunes.
So my question to Ballmer would have to be: If you've lost even your fanbois to Apple, who also has DRM, how exactly do you intend to actually gain a foothold in this market?
On a perfectly safe side note, the percentage of my "stolen" music collection used to be 100% MP3, now it's 80% MP3. Any MS representative want to take a guess as to what the other format is for my stolen music?
Ballmer's appointment marked a switch from customer focus and innovation (all the GNU type people should go off and hate me quietly in a corner at this point) to concept focus and buzzwords. It's amazing to think that there was a time (early-mid 90's) when if I wanted a vendor who'd actually listen and do stuff, I wanted MS. Now, they literally can't make a single statement without chanting a mantra -- 'developers! xml! digital nervous system! drm!' and getting actual action from them is like blood from a stone. Actual development units remain largely unchanged -- but they simply aren't running the show now.
It's a tragedy of classic proportions, with Microsoft as the protagonist and Ballmer as the hubris that drives him to his fatal excesses -- and maybe IBM/Linux as the nemesis waiting around the corner.
I am _so_ not looking forward to everything being run by IBM again
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
1) Any new computer purchased from Dell
2) Any new computer purchased from Gateway
3) Any new computer purchased from HP
4) Any new computer purchased from Compaq
5) Any new computer purchased from the company I work for
6) Any new computer purchased from GlobalComputer/TigerDirect under the "SysteMax" name
I really could go on and on. You sir, are in idot in the worst way; Or a troll. One of the two.
(Now, the above isn't to say that the users of said brand new computers won't 'borrow' some software from friends/family, but makes it a far cry less than "%100 stolded" as you had suggested. Rare indeed.)
bork bork bork!
And what does this prove? I could level the exact same claim at Windows users - most home copies of Windows are pirated (unless OEM) - and anyway, how does the music get onto the iPod?
Hmm, maybe via a computer. And Windows users are using the iPods too!
What MS embraces is less important than what consumers embrace, and they have a habit of not embracing restrictive formats. Like DIV-X (the old version, where you had to connect to get permission to play your movie); and DVD-A / SACD.
Jobs has said that he will open up AAC playback if the iPod market share drops below #1. Similarly, he will consider putting WMA playback on the iPod if the iTMS falls below #1.
But right now, despite the absolute lack of competition, the cheaper songs/players elsewhere - the iPod is #1, and so is the iTMS. Every time a consumer chooses either, they create a barrier for themselves to using another service. Who wants to change all their music formats, etc over?
Yeah, or Microsoft procrastinating in the OS market. Your analogy is flawed. Apple have created this market with one product - the product has defined the market. People don't want a music player, they want an iPod. And which music store is the only one to work with an iPod when they want to try legal downloaded music?
You guessed it.
Your point being? I think Ballmer's way off, and it is reflected by Microsoft's market share in this market. Consumers don't want MS DRM, and Apple has a better product all round.
-- james
They are really pissing me off with all this 'thief' crap.
Just because you have an MP3 does not mean you are a thief. just because you bought an OS-less PC doesn't mean you are a thief. Just because I own a soldering iron and am an EE doesnt mean I'm some 'evil hacker'..
I have 25GB on my 4G Ipod and not ONE song isn't from a CD I own.. I have several PC's, and NONE run some sort of pirated Microsoft OS.. Either I own a license, or its running a 'free' OS...
I'm sick and tired of being accused of something I'm not, and then getting legislation passed that restricts my activities, and increases their market share/profit. ( generic statement, this applies to most any 'media' industry )
To hell with them all. See how little of my money they continue to get from me..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Digital Rights Management is all about preventing people from using the tools they have paid for in the ways they want to use them. Often, DRM prohibits perfectly legal activities.
Digital Rights Management is one of the most serious threats to the general purpose computer, and to the freedom it affords us. The general public must be educated to the fact that the purpose of DRM isn't to protect them, but to protect large corporations from them.
50%? Are you kidding? It's rare to see a Windows computer with less than 100% pure, unadulterated, stolen shit in it
That certainly rings true among the people I know - at least with regards to their home computers. 100% of them run pirated copies of WinXP, pirated photoshop, pirated Office, etc...
Personally I think the likes of Abiword make a perfectly acceptable replacement for Word, at least for home users - and often times businesses would do just fine with it. I think Abiword is an upgrade from MS Word - others my not agree. But it's definitely faster to load, looks just as good (better in my opinion), uses less memory, and has more than enough features to keep home users, college students, and business people happy.
I'm not a huge fan of Open Office - not because there's anything wrong with it. It's just that I don't really need an Office Suite. (I imagine most home users don't.) But for those who do "need" it, I think it's a great substitute for the $300+ MS Office Suite.
For my own spreadsheet needs, I prefer Gnumeric because it feels very light weight while still having all the features I need. Plus I think it looks great and it's a heck of a lot faster to load up than OOo. The only problem with Gnumeric is that there isn't a Windows port (that I know of).
I also have several friends who pirate the "Pro" version of Trillian. I finally convinced my friend to give the Windows Port of gaim a try and he has been using it ever since. Bonus - download the encryption plugin for gaim and have secure messaging.
I don't know enough about Photoshop and image editing to know if The Gimp is an acceptable replacement. I've read several posts where people say it is *not* (an acceptable replacement.) I'll have to take their word for it. My image editing needs are very basic so gThumb is about all I really need.
I have another friend who pirates FTP software. With the existence of FileZilla, I fail to see the point. What can't FileZilla do?
A lot of people pirate WinZip. I have to admit that WinZip does have a pretty interface (if you use Windows), but if you don't want to pay for it, and you don't want to take the risk of infecting your Windows computer with a virus when you download a WinZip crack of Kazaa, then I recommend 7-zip as a free alternative. Also, the last time I saw WinZip (which admittedly was years ago) there were a few archive types it didn't handle.
There are so many great Free and Open Source alternatives available, even if you use Windows.
Get FireFox now
I think you're missing the point here. Basically, this can never be anything like a representative suvey. This is because:
...and Influence People the Microsoft Way" we show you how to insult everyone under 25.
Boring Old Fart (40, married, 3 kids...er no...make that 49, married, 3 grown up kids...it's been a long time)
Come on now, Steve. There are three ways to get music onto a portable digital music player: paid downloads, rip from CDs (or other source) one already owns, or to "steal" it from another source. In the paid downloads category the iTunes Music Store dominates. It's far and away the market leader and those tracks can only be played on the iPod. All the other players that are capable of playing Microsoft's Windows Media format with DRM can get music from a variety of paid download services. But if more people by far are downloading legitimately from iTunes, and necessarily are playing such legal, paid-for music on their iPods, doesn't it stand to reason that iPod owners are more likely to have legally downloaded music than users of other portable players? Furthermore, Mac users have demonstrated over the years that they will pay more for hardware/OS/software that they perceive to be better. The iTunes Music Store was launched first for Mac users because it was reasoned that they would be willing to pay for the quality and ease of using the legal channel over the free file sharing networks. To the extent that Mac users represent a higher percentage of iPod owners than of other brands, doesn't it also stand to reason that the iPod user base is more likely to pay for their content? This is not to say that there is not music from dubious sources, or "stolen" to use Balmer's term, on iPods just like on other players, but I think it very likely that iPods contain a lower percentage of such content than the Windows Media players.
The critical mass has to come from the PC,
Yup. Just like USB. Oh, wait...
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
Hence PC users are Thieves.....
WOW look at that you can spin the FUD two ways here... Why hasnt this guy died of a exploding heart as he was jumping up and down like a overweight gorrila yet????
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
creating music is an artform, you're not supposed to create art because you want to make money off of it.. you're supposed to do it cause you love doing it. I know many musicians who never expect to make it big and will keep working for shit pay, or no pay at all. Greedy musicians will scream at any fan who doesn't pony up, that makes me sick.
MABASPLOOM!
It's people like you who cause the RIAA and MPAA to sue ordinary citizens.
It's the flawed system that promotes the greed of the corporation which causes the RIAA and MPAA to sue ordinary citizens. So-called 'piracy' is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.
Freeloaders who show no appreciation or respect for musicians hard work
Sounds likes you are describing the labels & RIAA to me.
Most - as in 99.999% of musicians are overworked and underpaid.
This was true long before Napster was born. In fact, it was true long before Shawn Fanning was born.
So you see, children, much like the mythical "copyright" the whole concept of "recorded" "music" is a mental fiction and at odds with the natural order of things. Kill your iPod now!
or something.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
-Apple has already made a deal with HP for the HP branded iPod (now shipping) and bundling iTunes with HP windows machines.
-Apple have also integrated their device with BMW and VW Beetle cars and Alpine makes an adaptor kit for other vehicles.
-Virgin Airlines offers iPods to use in the first class lounge.
-Some cruise lines are looking at renting iPods to guests.
-Apple has Licensed playback software to Motorola for inclusion in their cell phones.
Apple already has that critical mass by having captured over 60% of the market even before HP jumped on the band wagon just through direct marketing to mac and windows users.
PS. You might also want to take note that the iPod is a status symbol today and many music stars like to brandish them in public (especially diamond encrusted ones). MSFT is not considered cool these days and your "developer, developers, developer" song combined with your monkeyboy dance are partly to blame for this.
PPS. Get some better antiperspirant when you go on stage 'cause large armpit sweat stains are uncool.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
You know what? I'll even call a spade a spade - I don't have any intention of using iTunes at 99 cents. The record companies dropped the ball, and I am now used to getting for free what I had previously paid 18 bucks a pop for. Do I feel bad? Not in the least.
/. won't like this, but they'll have to accept the fact that we're quietly moving into an era where the consumer - the person that both the creator and the corps rely on - is being returned to his rightful place of power.
They dropped the ball when they made huge scenes at press conferences with Lars and Hilary standing side by side to fight the evil p2p'ers. They dropped the ball when they refused to work towards some mutually beneficial pricing scheme that would *gasp* give both artists and consumers a fair shake! Instead, they charge 1.00 a song, which can run you into paying MORE than you would had you just bought the CD.
Meanwhile, I can get the same thing for free. I provide the bandwidth, they have no packaging costs, why should I pay MORE than I would for the physical media? Because they say so? Fuck them. I know the IP apologists on
What's that? You want to "license" me your content and sign my rights away with a clickthrough EULA? That's so cute... fuck you. In case you haven't noticed yet, you are on the losing end of a battle that has been going on for almost 5 years now. The only way you'll win is to make it easier to buy your shit than it is to steal it. That means *gasp* reduced profit margins for the corps, and *2x gasp!* no more bullshit rockstar lifestyles for the golden idols!
This means that the creation of music, movies, etc. would become...*shudders*...ANOTHER NORMAL JOB that you would actually have to be GOOD at and keep IMPROVING on to keep your position! Holy shit, we can't have that now, can we?!
Let's see
VAX32
Netscape code
Java (use, replace, then disable)
Stolen security and networking from UNIX
Apple's interface
Then there's the subtle criminal stuff like;
Forcing OEMs to be exclusive or charging more (blackmail)
Integrating players and browsers after agreeing with the Feds not to (contempt)
Swearing you could not de-integrate said featured in your court case in the US, then suddenly producing a RUssian and European stripped version within 6 months of losing your case there. (Perjury)
Having your CEO SWEAR that M$ never intended to block out Netscape from the browser market then discovering emails that said you actually did (more perjury)
Claiming you have a "more secure" OS than Linux when a 6 year old has found security holes (poor development, lying, stupidity)
Yep, when I think of ethics and upstanding citizens, Microsoft is the company I want preaching ethics to me! Could there be a larger group of assholes on the planet?
"Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect."- Steven Wright