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Humans Are Superorganisms

colonist writes "You are not completely human. You are a superorganism made up of human cells, fungi, bacteria and viruses. That's the view of scientists from Imperial College London and Astra Zeneca, published in Nature Biotechnology. Microbes in the gut can weigh up to one kilogram, forming the second largest metabolic 'organ'. Human cells and genes are outnumbered by microbial cells and genes. 'Understanding the man-microbe interaction is likely to be crucial in realising personalised medicine and healthcare in the future,' says the lead researcher."

81 comments

  1. Well by FiReaNGeL · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's a point of view. Under this concept, the only simple organisms would be bacterial, because even eukaryotic cells could be seen as 'superorganisms', harboring components of bacterial origins (mitochondrions) we can't live without.

    And I guess, under this point of view, that even Earth itself could be seen as a very large, living and breathing 'superorganism'... not unlike environmentalists see it, actually.

    1. Re:Well by Sneeka2 · · Score: 1

      I guess you could still break down a bacteria into even smaller parts. And eventually we will be able to break these smaller parts down into even smaller parts.

      If you think about it that way we are no more than a bunch of randomly accumulated atoms, electrons, or whatever even smaller stuff there is, that has been set free back in the days of the big bang.

      --
      Bitten Apples are still better than dirty Windows...
    2. Re:Well by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Under this concept, the only simple organisms would be bacterial, because even eukaryotic cells could be seen as 'superorganisms', harboring components of bacterial origins (mitochondrions) we can't live without.

      Mitochondria are certainly not generally considered organisms. I assume this would be because they are not capable of independent reproduction (like virii, which were mentioned incorrectly in the summary as organisms). I'm fairly sure eukaryotic cells aren't considered organisms either.

      And I guess, under this point of view, that even Earth itself could be seen as a very large, living and breathing 'superorganism'... not unlike environmentalists see it, actually.

      Google for "Gaia". This is exactly what ssome environmentalists say.

    3. Re:Well by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's why I never liked biology. Too much of it seems focused on definitions, rather than real substance. "Organism" is a word, nothing more. There is nothing fundamental about it.

    4. Re:Well by reverseengineer · · Score: 5, Informative
      I think the mitochondria argument is in reference to the idea of "endosymbiosis," which suggests that mitochondria (and chloroplasts) were originally independent prokaryotic organisms that were at some stage incorporated into eukaryotic cells, the primary evidence for this being that these organelles have their own DNA. They then became highly specialized at a certain task (aerobic respiration, photosynthesis) and discarded the machinery required for independent survival. The eukaryotic cell benefited by gaining sets of powerful new energy pathways in nice self-contained packages, and the organelles benefited by being passed on whenever eukaryotic organisms reproduced (you have your mother to thank for your mitochondria, as yours descend from the mitochondria of her egg cell). As to whether mitochondria are alive, well, biology has a way of making airtight definitions very difficult- after all, there are plenty of complex species which are completely dependent on other species in order to live and reproduce; we call them parasites.

      Now, despite that, I'm personally in the "not an organism" boat, as mitochondria are really not much different from other "opportunistic" pieces of DNA like viruses and plasmids. It just happens that the bag the DNA comes in is extraordinarily useful to the host cell. Indeed, while mitochondria are completely dependent on host cells to reproduce, life on earth would be far different- there'd be no way an ATP-guzzler like the human brain could have evolved without the benefit of aerobic respiration, for instance.

      In reference to the whole "humans are superorganisms" idea, one of the things I got from a microbiology course I took in college was the ubiquity of microorganisms on and in the human body- and how their relationship to the host organism can be anything from beneficial to deadly. I think that considering the other billion residents of the body when examining avenues of treatment is a wise move.

      --
      "FDA staff reviewers expressed concern about the number of patients who were left out of the study because they died."
    5. Re:Well by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 1

      So, you expect us to believe what you have to say about mitochondira, but then you go ahead and use the word 'virii'?

      Uhhh huhhhh.

      --
      Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    6. Re:Well by p2sam · · Score: 1

      That and astronomy... whenever an object evolving around the Sun is discovered, we have the media trying to define whether it's an astroid, planet, death star, etc.

    7. Re:Well by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 1

      At least I didn't say "mitochondrions" :).

    8. Re:Well by Vellmont · · Score: 1


      "Organism" is a word, nothing more. There is nothing fundamental about it.


      Yes and no. It's important to not get to caught up in word definitions, but I think how you see something can profoundly effect how you understand it, and come up with solutions. Words are the shortcuts we use to understand incredibly complex things. Define a word differently and your entire view of it can change. The thing isn't different of course, but that's not the point.

      I think the point in this new definition is more that all the other "stuff" in the body is too often ignored. Yeast infections in women are a result of the wrong kind of bacteria taking over in the vagina. There are perhaps other diseases that are a result of bacterial imbalances. It's also possible different people have very different bacteria balances in them and it effects how well drugs work.

      --
      AccountKiller
    9. Re:Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Philosophically speaking the point is not about making definitions, but about concepts. The writers are suggesting that humans are 'best understood' as superorganisms.

      So it is not only definition but also a hypothesis of how humans are essentially constructed, kind of a model.

    10. Re:Well by DerWulf · · Score: 1

      the distribution of quarks, atoms, bakteria, cells, proteins whatever magnification you prefer is exactly not random. This makes you, firstly an 'it', an object, and later an 'I', a conciosness. Please don't dismiss the (I'm sure) wonderful being that is 'you' as random.

      --

      ___
      No power in the 'verse can stop me
    11. Re:Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how you see something can profoundly effect how you understand it

      "affect".

      it effects how well drugs work

      "affects".

    12. Re:Well by Sneeka2 · · Score: 1

      True. 'I', or 'you', or the guy sitting next to me, might not be completely random. Though I'd like to think that pretty much everything in this universe started out random, and just developed it's own complex mechanisms later on.

      [please don't take any of the following literally as I am no scientist, just try to get the general idea]

      Planets for example are said to be born by matter clumping together because of it's own gravity. Before, this matter was only more or less randomly drifting particles.

      Why shouldn't life have been born the same way, by matter clumping together, by chance forming cells which had the tendency to clump together with other cells, which had the tendency to form first simple, later more complex life forms. In the end, a human is nothing more than a bunch of matter working together according to specific laws (depending on how far you break an organism down that might be physical laws, quantum mechanics or whatever).

      And while were at it, try to define consciousness on a physical level. After all the brain is just a bunch of 'electrical cables', making your flesh move in a more or less organized way to help it continue living (avoiding dangers, make it eat regularly etc).

      --
      Bitten Apples are still better than dirty Windows...
    13. Re:Well by DerWulf · · Score: 1

      it might well have started out random. But so have the atoms within a crystal. Yet, after much randomness, in distribution and process, there is order. So I don't disagree in the slightest that we originate from randomness, my opinion is just that now, we are something different. An alternative view on the subject would be to say: There is no randomness, just uttlery complex order.

      --

      ___
      No power in the 'verse can stop me
    14. Re:Well by i+chose+quality · · Score: 1
      That's why I never liked biology. Too much of it seems focused on definitions, rather than real substance. "Organism" is a word, nothing more. There is nothing fundamental about it.
      excuse me, but what are you talking about? science in general is always focused on definition. its purpose is to break down the "world" into parts, that we are able to comprehend. defining and categorising is vital to our communication and thinking. now there is something fundamental about it.
      --
      the computer is online
      i am not at it
      what a waste of ressources
    15. Re:Well by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 1

      science in general is always focused on definition

      You're confusing science with linguisics. Science is focused on finding truth, not inventing words. Words are helpful in communicating truth, but words are not themselves truth.

    16. Re:Well by i+chose+quality · · Score: 1

      no, you got me wrong.

      what i'm saying is, that the whole "human process" is reality, because we are able to learn and differ things from other things. we are constantly categorising the sensoric input we receive. this is more than words, it's our way to be.

      science is doing something, that is pretty fascinating: it's mostly categorising things we are not able to perceive. it's our mind, that is extending our senses. and if you want to communicate the data you gain and put it to any use, you have to name it. you have to write about it and talk about it and put up a presentation about it with many diagrams and well defined words in it.

      i repeat, you got me wrong. :)

      --
      the computer is online
      i am not at it
      what a waste of ressources
    17. Re:Well by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 1

      But that's not the purpose of science. The purpose of science is to discover new truths, not to communicate them. Words and definitions are important, but defining things is not science in itself. Even the scientific method is about predicting the future, not talking about the past.

  2. icky... by dave-tx · · Score: 2, Funny
    Wow, now I really feel like I need a shower.

    --

    >> "What would the robut do? Frame someone!"

    1. Re:icky... by Muhammar · · Score: 1

      no shower, pls. It hurts the symbiosis.

      (I suspect my apparment is a superorganism too.)

      --
      I doubt that we will ever figure out - and I suspect that even if we did figure out we couldn't do much about it
    2. Re:icky... by eluusive · · Score: 1

      How about an enema?

  3. bacterial overlords by wild_berry · · Score: 1

    I, for one, welcome our new...

    (you get the picture)

  4. It's called... by n54 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...symbiotic relationship (yes yes I know, you can all say "I've got a relationship" now)

    Nothing to see here folks, move along

    --
    this comment is provided "as is" and without any express or implied legibility or congruity [...]
  5. No surprise for some of us.... by Bad+Boy+Marty · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Having experienced acute diverticulitis some years ago, and having been treated with antibiotics that essentially killed off all the flora & fauna in my intestines, this is no surprise to me at all. The human intestines (and I presume the same for most mammals) by themselves are just amazingly inefficient at extracting nutrition. Most of the work of digestion is actually performed by the microbes & bacteria & fungus that live there (and usually, quite happily).

    (The alternative to the antibiotics was surgery, and while I do appreciate my surgeon's intent to avoid surgery, I might just do it the other way around if it should ever happen again. Don't want it to happen to you? Eat *lots* of whole grain and other fiber. You *really* don't want to annoy all them living things in your intestines!)

    --
    RHCE; are you certified? Karma: ambiguous.
    1. Re:No surprise for some of us.... by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      I've heard that yoghurt can help rebuild the flora in the gut, and tried to eat as much as I could after a bout with staph and some antibiotics that did a number on my own microorganism friends.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    2. Re:No surprise for some of us.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've heard that stomach acids kill the bacteria in the yoghurt before they can get where they're supposed to be. Now, a one litre yoghurt enema...

    3. Re:No surprise for some of us.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Just a correction - our digestive system is damn good for what it does. Most of the work of digestion is performed by our digestive system, not our commensal organisms.

      Bacteria are great at providing certain things for us - B vitamins is one that springs to mind; but make no mistake - we can digest and absorb most things (carbohydrate, fatty acids, protein, minerals, vitamins) just fine without them.

    4. Re:No surprise for some of us.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gut microflora play some very important roles in the digestive process. Don't dis' the bacteria in your gut. They improve your health quite a bit. They are important in providing various nutrients, creating short chain fatty acids which provide fuel to the intestinal lining. And in my opinion one of their most important jobs is regulating water content in your stool. Without them you'd probably be constipated quite a bit more often than you'd like.

  6. What's new? by Finuvir · · Score: 4, Informative
    What's new here? We've known for a long time that eukaryotic cells contain bacteria that do most of the interesting chemical work for us. Chloroplasts in plants are seperate organisms that photosynthesise. Mytochondria, which are so useful in tracing animal lineages, are bacteria inside animal cells that extract energy from sugars and oxygen (they metabolise for us). Termites in Darwin, Australia (known as Darwins termites) don't digest their own food. That's done by prokaryotes in their gut, which themselves are crowded with other tiny critters that do most of their work (propulsion is done by one set of bacteria which are powered by another group).

    For an accessible introduction to this kind of symbiosis, see The Ancestor's Tale: A Pilgrimage to the Dawn of Life by Richard Dawkins.

    --
    Why is anything anything?
    1. Re:What's new? by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What's new is that someone has recognized that this fits the definition of a superorganism and pointed it out. I think it's somewhat interesting, but it's kind of obvious to anyone who hasn't taken their biology classes too seriously.

  7. Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Hang on... so we aren't human because we are human+extra, but human+extra is a superorganism called "human"? That doesn't add up.

    "Humans are superorganisms"
    human = superorganism
    superorganism = human + extra
    Therefore:
    human = human + extra

    So if humans are humans+extra, what do we call humans?

    1. Re:Huh? by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not exactly. A "superorganism is an organism consisting of organisms."

  8. Clean up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Ups, I better get a terminator to clean up the mess.

  9. yay by ShadowXOmega · · Score: 2, Interesting

    mmmmm
    May be that theory of James Lovelock (dont remember the name..heehe) (earth as Gaia) looks like an very early version of this....

    mmmm or may be all the life in earth are nano-machine (dna-machines) based ...mmmm natural nanites......

    DNA: main program, HDD, and protein sequencer(no ST stuff)
    Protein: main nanite assembly block , maked by DNA(read DNA)
    Virus: all purpose nano-machines, maded by proteins (read Protein)
    Organels: purpose-based nanite based in protein
    Bacteria: structure based in organels and proteins Cell: complex nanite maded by various kinds of nanites (the things go fractal)
    ...
    ...
    Organs: complex strucuture based in simpler strcutures...that are based in aother even simpler structures(read Cells)
    ...
    ...
    Our scale lifeforms: structure based on organs(read Organs)

    dna-machines in fractal architecture.... doh i need to rest a bit

  10. That's 1 kg of microbes, not one 1kg microbe by Thag · · Score: 0
    Microbes in the gut can weigh up to one kilogram, forming the second largest metabolic 'organ'.

    This is a poorly phrased reference to "the kilogram of bacterial matter in our guts."

    Or maybe I'm the only person who went "What the- ?"

    Jon Acheson
    --
    All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
    1. Re:That's 1 kg of microbes, not one 1kg microbe by torpor · · Score: 1

      Or maybe I'm the only person who went "What the- ?"

      yeah man, i was like 'whoa, what was that' and it moved, and i'm all 'damn, gotta stop reading slashdot immediately', and it was all .. *bfrr-qfrrrrt* .. just a fart.

      close though! i thought i'd suddenly become host to a sentinent ball of microbe!

      --
      ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
  11. Slashdotters are finally having sex... by Loacher · · Score: 1

    taking place inside their guts.

  12. Not a bio guy or anything by kippy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    but don't a lot of other critters like dogs, whales, birds, skunks, sloths, etc, etc, etc, entail a system of bacteria and symbiotic lifeforms? Wouldn't this just mean that most complex life could be classified as superorganisms under this thinking?

    1. Re:Not a bio guy or anything by rts008 · · Score: 1

      You are absolutely correct, but mordern perception has us seperated from the rest of the animal kingdom for some strange reason. It's not "politically correct" (WTF is that anyhow?) to refer to someone as an ANIMAL unless to imply something negative. I imagine that all of the other critters are insulted by us!

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
  13. Oh no they don't :) by n54 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Afaik all bacteria reproduce asexually (apologies to anyone getting their hopes up) ;)

    Then again most /.'ers will probably find cloning inside their tummies more fascinating than sex...

    --
    this comment is provided "as is" and without any express or implied legibility or congruity [...]
  14. Powers by wed128 · · Score: 3, Funny

    So Wait...if i'm a superorganism...what kind of super powers do i have? do i use them for good, or for awesome?

    1. Re:Powers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The superfart.

  15. Finally! by macemoneta · · Score: 4, Funny

    Finally! A scientific explanation for all those voices in my head.

    --

    Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.

  16. Emergent behavior? by richardoz · · Score: 1

    I wonder if we are conscious as individuals or the product of some Emergent Behavior?

    Kind if gives me the creeps...

    --
    All the worlds indeed a .sig, and we are mearly players..
    1. Re:Emergent behavior? by DerWulf · · Score: 1

      why must those two be mutual exclusive? Maybe consciousness does just emerge, as a side product of our incredible powers of reasoning etc.

      --

      ___
      No power in the 'verse can stop me
  17. assimilate by !splut · · Score: 1

    We are Human. Resistance is futile.

    --
    The angel in the oatmeal.
  18. Superorganism by delta_avi_delta · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think the point is this new way of thinking opens the door to medical treatments that take into account our unicellular friends. For example, as someone pointed out, when you get sick, the traditional response has been to dose you with antibiotics, which kill *all* the bacteria in your gut.
    Lately researchers have discovered a link between gut bacteria and the immune system, suggesting that gut bacteria somehow "teach" the immune system to ignore things like pollen, thus preventing allergies. If you nuke these bacteria as part of a stomach bug treatment, it's important to replace them - and this is new to mecical thinking. In the future we may follow up a course of antibiotics with a course of probiotics to compensate.

    1. Re:Superorganism by Nate+Eldredge · · Score: 1

      It's not new. Years ago, when prescribed antibiotics, I was advised to eat yogurt. Yogurt, of course (real yogurt, not that sugary slime sold by Dannon et al) is full of beneficial live bacteria, which is supposed to help replace the intestinal bacteria killed by the antibiotics. This in turn was supposed to help avoid some of the intestinal side effects of antibiotics, such as diarrhea.

      Now, I don't know whether the bacteria in yogurt actually help replace those in the gut, or whether yogurt contains enough bacteria to make a difference. But at least the idea was there.

  19. I, We, Gaia by BackwardEngineer · · Score: 1

    You said: Google for "Gaia". This is exactly what ssome environmentalists say.

    Isn't this the same mentality that Issac Asimov had in Foundtation's Edge and Foundation and Earth of the planet Gaia? Only that the parts were more interconnected?

    1. Re:I, We, Gaia by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 1

      I have no idea. I think the whole question of what is/isn't a lifeform is a rather pointless one. Life is whatever we define it to be. Is an ant farm one life or many? Is the Earth one life or a lot? Is a mother and her fetus one life or two? I don't think there's an empirical answer to these questions. You can define life however you want.

    2. Re:I, We, Gaia by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      That old "what is 'life'?" canard is really tired. Much more interesting, and tractable, is the "what is 'intelligence'?" question. After I've built up weeks of complex state in my computer's RAM, is it ethical to powercycle it? If the Earth was seeded with RNA 3.5B years ago, which evolved to us, and the exochemical processes from which that RNA derived also contained matter distributed in a humanoid shape, is that god?

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    3. Re:I, We, Gaia by DerWulf · · Score: 1

      seeing how this ram is 'powercycled' every couple of milliseconds (ok, I'll concede, not all at once), I think not ;)

      --

      ___
      No power in the 'verse can stop me
    4. Re:I, We, Gaia by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 1

      Much more interesting, and tractable, is the "what is 'intelligence'?" question. After I've built up weeks of complex state in my computer's RAM, is it ethical to powercycle it?

      But this is exactly the distinction I think we should avoid. Is it unethical to destroy a computer's built up complex state? It depends on your purpose, not on some universal concept of "intelligence" and whether or not the computer falls under it. In fact, I don't even think the words "ethical" and "unethical" exist as a strict dichotomy. With both concepts we can answer certain obvious questions like "is a rock more or less intelligent than George W. Bush" (OK maybe that one's not so obvious ;)) or "is it more ethical to murder innocent people without their permission or to protect them", but when it comes to drawing a strict line in the sand I don't think it can be done.

      If the Earth was seeded with RNA 3.5B years ago, which evolved to us, and the exochemical processes from which that RNA derived also contained matter distributed in a humanoid shape, is that god?

      God is one of the least well defined terms of all. Perhaps a more meaningful question is whether or not the originator of the Universe cares about you. But then again, how could we define "cares about". Maybe "god" is just shorthand for a bunch of smaller questions which people ask and answer. Not having experienced much of religions outside Christianity it's hard for me to define God outside of Moses and Jesus and Heaven and Hell. I mean, does anyone really believe that "the Earth...humanoid shape"?

    5. Re:I, We, Gaia by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Un/ethical is a strict dichotomy in a strictly coded ethics. But you're right to observe that our ethics are rarely coded, let alone strictly. Our highest ethic is survival, as individuals, family, community, species. So when our survival relies on rebooting computers daily, we avoid the inverse question of whether human mental complexity is all that weighs against the convenience to some of murder. The fetish for human value is the main impediment to valuing emerging artificial minds. And we're probably better off for it, at least until the merger ;).

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    6. Re:I, We, Gaia by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Quantum consciousness believers might say the same about us, but much higher frequency - Bell's theorem. If we back you up before reincarnating and restoring to your clone, is it OK to execute you a few times a day?

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    7. Re:I, We, Gaia by DerWulf · · Score: 1

      yes, but wouldn't the heisenberg uncertainty principal make impossible the discovering, transmitting and restoration of that quantum state? If the state at the quantum level translates directly to our state of consciousness, this the implications of uncertainty can not be ignored. So, if I understand all this correctly, it is quite possible for us to discover all necessary state of computer ram (indeed, if we couldn't the whole question would not arise) but it is impossible to do the same to humans. In my view the moral implications are not the same then. Also, a human can always say 'I don't want this' while a computer is no 'I'. Just as it is perfectly moral to slam two rocks together, it is perfectly moral to do to my computer whatever I want. Now, the instance my computer becomes self aware, it's a different ball game.

      --

      ___
      No power in the 'verse can stop me
    8. Re:I, We, Gaia by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 1

      So when our survival relies on rebooting computers daily, we avoid the inverse question of whether human mental complexity is all that weighs against the convenience to some of murder.

      On the other hand, when computers become intelligent enough to threaten our survival (however slightly), we'll start considering it.

    9. Re:I, We, Gaia by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      When "computers" are complex enough to take charge of their state without humans at the controls, even reproducing, sometimes described as the approaching Singularity, will it be unethical for them to shut us down, as our minds seem closer to rocks than to their own? We're transporting quantum states already, with electron and photon quantum entanglement. And Kurzweil's "Age of Spiritual Machines" seems to approach more rapidly every day. Maybe we'll just have to judge these miracles for ourselves as they arrive.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    10. Re:I, We, Gaia by DerWulf · · Score: 1

      well, I think that conciousness is not a matter of degrees, especially when it regards morality. For me its a boolean function. So hopefully, if ever a mind arises from complexity (I believe this too), it'll share this view and treat us as like we treat it. Or two put it better: do onto others as others should do onto you.

      --

      ___
      No power in the 'verse can stop me
    11. Re:I, We, Gaia by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Maybe - I'm too drowsy to tell the difference right now. I hope I'm not being to selfish in letting you think this one through for me. Thanks for doing the hard work.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    12. Re:I, We, Gaia by ACPosterChild · · Score: 1

      This all depends heavily on the resolution needed to actually reproduce "conciousness". It's easy to copy a bit pattern because you don't need to worry about the spin of every electron in the area storing the bit. I have my doubts that such resolution is actually needed for recording a brain's state, either. (Mostly because I don't believe that the human body is capable of reading, modifying, and maintaining such delicate information; especially maintaining it over long time periods).

  20. Why yes... by Idarubicin · · Score: 4, Funny
    I am a super organism. Thank you for noticing.

    You're not a bad organism, yourself.

    --
    ~Idarubicin
  21. Darwin's Radio by n3bulous · · Score: 1

    Coincidentally, I'm listening to Darwin's Radio by Greg Bear, a bio-thriller touching on related concepts. A very good book so far, but it is difficult to get out of the car for work.

    --
    "The area of penetration will no doubt be sensitive." ~ Spock
    1. Re:Darwin's Radio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even more apropos, try the novel "Blood Music", also by Bear.

    2. Re:Darwin's Radio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually his 2002 thriller "Vitals" is the most apropos of all :)

    3. Re:Darwin's Radio by I+don't+want+to+spen · · Score: 1

      I was disappointed by the sequel, but did like the original book.

      --
      Don't go to a brothel if you want to buy broth
    4. Re:Darwin's Radio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yah, sequal Darwin's Children was weak - littered with vaguely nagging policital overtones and devoid of the investigative SciFi which made Darwin's Radio a superb read. =(

      Blood Music was initally an interesting read, however it seemed at times Bear was just fluffling the pages with only tangentently related topics, plots and characters - I wasn't surprised to later learn it was originally a short story.

  22. Lynn Margulis' Research by jte · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Am I the only one suprised not to see the microbiologist Lynn Margulis' name mentioned here?

    1. Re:Lynn Margulis' Research by reverseengineer · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yeah, good point, I was somewhat surprised too. I should have mentioned her in my post, actually- endosymbiosis, which I did mention, is her idea, and along with James Lovelock, so is the Gaia Hypothesis (which admittedly I'm less hot on). The idea of complex organisms as "superorganisms" in symbiosis with their own ecosystem of microbes fits nicely in scale between her two major ideas, one of which is about the relationship between a cell and some of its organelles and the other of which is about the relationship of the entire biosphere to all of its inhabitants.

      --
      "FDA staff reviewers expressed concern about the number of patients who were left out of the study because they died."
    2. Re:Lynn Margulis' Research by gobbo · · Score: 1

      Margulis wrote a great article in Sci Am a few years back about Kefir, which intrigued me because I was cultivating it at the time. Kefir is a 'superorganism' comprised of some >30 different microbes, yeasts and bacteria et al., and when they're together they make a nice small rubbery grain that's coherent and lasts. This stuff does amazing things to milk, transforming it into a very digestible, healthful drink for humans. When conditions are bad, Kefir dissolves into its constituent parts and they just sour the milk. She was using it as an example of the synergistic nature of symbiosis, and the sheer complexity of species that can be involved in one instance.

      Me, however, I'm just a mule for my Little Masters, they make me spread them around. At one point, I seem to remember Margulis wildly speculating about the possibility of evolution being in part driven by microbes motivating their multicelllular vehicles.

  23. Medical Record Privacy by bsdbigot · · Score: 1

    Here's a real good reason for strictist privacy concerning individual and family medical records - with this kind of technology, not only is "personalized medicine," a possibility, but also "personalized illness." Imagine what you could do with a virus that *only* afflicted one person. It's kinda scary.

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    main(){char I,l,O[]={'-',1-1,0,(1<<5)-1,0+'-',-10-1,-10,11-0,- 1,-100};for(I=l=0;l<10+0;put
  24. I thought... by hollismb · · Score: 1

    Waits for the inevitable mention of midichlorians...

  25. I'm Super.. by clarkcox3 · · Score: 1

    ... thanks for asking!

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    There are no tiger attacks in my area and it's all because this rock I'm holding keeps the tigers away.
  26. Meat Popsicle..... by Fbelch · · Score: 1

    From The Fifth Element.

    Police : Are you classified as human?
    Korben Dallas : Negative, I am a meat popsicle.

  27. Yes, and the point is .. by RedLaggedTeut · · Score: 1
    Wouldn't this just mean that most complex life could be classified as superorganisms under this thinking?
    Yes, but I think superorganism simply means "an organism composed of several other (different) organisms".

    So it is more than an organism. But because your body is made up of these bacteria as well, you should feel a healthy respect for them instead of feeling like an overlord.

    Good thing that our brain doesn't rely on silicium yet but maybe it will one day. If you could connect dolphins and whales to slashdot, it'd be a superorganism too.

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    I'm still trying to figure out what people mean by 'social skills' here.
  28. Bacterial Sex by Commander+Trollco · · Score: 0

    Some bacteria actually do practice a form of sex: bacterial conjugation is quite common, even in the familiar Escherischia Coli. In addition, viruses provide a method of gene transfer for just about every species on the planet.
    While it is true that the vast majority of bacterial reproduction happens by simple fission, let's not oversimplify.

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    http://persianews.on.nimp.org/?u=Tar_Baby
  29. Nature Biochemistry Article Text by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Nature Biotechnology 22, 1268 - 1274 (2004)
    Published online: 06 October 2004; | doi:10.1038/nbt1015
    The challenges of modeling mammalian biocomplexity
    Jeremy K Nicholson1, Elaine Holmes1, John C Lindon1 & Ian D Wilson2
    1 Biological Chemistry, Biomedical Sciences Division, Imperial College London, Sir Alexander Fleming Building, South Kensington, London SW7 2AZ, UK.

    2 Dept. of Drug Metabolism and Pharmacokinetics, AstraZeneca Pharmaceuticals, Mereside, Alderley Park, Macclesfield, Cheshire SK10 4TG, UK.

    Correspondence should be addressed to Jeremy K Nicholson j.nicholson@imperial.ac.uk

    Understanding the relationships between human genetic factors, the risks of developing major diseases and the molecular basis of drug efficacy and toxicity is a fundamental problem in modern biology. Predicting biological outcomes on the basis of genomic data is a major challenge because of the interactions of specific genetic profiles with numerous environmental factors that may conditionally influence disease risks in a nonlinear fashion. 'Global' systems biology attempts to integrate multivariate biological information to better understand the interaction of genes with the environment. The measurement and modeling of such diverse information sets is difficult at the analytical and bioinformatic modeling levels. Highly complex animals such as humans can be considered 'superorganisms' with an internal ecosystem of diverse symbiotic microbiota and parasites that have interactive metabolic processes. We now need novel approaches to measure and model metabolic compartments in interacting cell types and genomes that are connected by cometabolic processes in symbiotic mammalian systems.

    Human populations face many diverse and aggressive biological challenges, including new infectious agents, antibiotic resistance, the increased incidence of cancer and age-related neurodegenerative conditions and the rapid and insidious rise in insulin resistance. All these problems involve interactions of multiple gene loci, environmental factors and, in many cases, interacting nonhuman genomes. In the quest to improve our understanding of disease processes, researchers have applied advanced analytical platforms to generate new physiological information to complement data supplied by modern genomics1, 2. The hope is that judicious use of genomic knowledge within a framework of physiology and metabolism will yield improvements in the health of whole populations and in the health of individuals by personalized healthcare solutions1, 2, 3, 4.

    The growth of a wide range of 'omics' sciences enables the measurement of multiple features of complex systems at various levels of biomolecular organization from the cell to the whole organism3, 4. However, these technologies generate massive amounts of data and it is a major task to model these robustly in a way that allows predictive disease modeling. This is a particular challenge because of the level of complexity of the mammalian system in its entirety, with its many spatially heterogeneous arrays of disparate cell types. Thus, the question is what needs to be measured and modeled to describe the integrated function of the system in a way that can be used to predict modes of failure accurately.

    In this review, we consider some aspects of mammalian biocomplexity that are currently poorly understood, but may be of great importance in understanding certain aspects of human disease development and drug action or drug toxicity. We first examine temporal and spatial variation in data, then describe the hierarchy of different systems that can be modeled, including multiple genome interactions, and then conclude by discussing trends in the modeling of systems of increasing levels of complexity.

    Timescales of 'omics' events
    To measure a system, even at the single-cell level, one must first understand the time-displacement that exists between gene, protein, metabolic and physiological events and their end points3. This is one of the confounding issues to

  30. Rats by Boronx · · Score: 1
    Wasn't there an experiment done where they raised a bunch of rats without any bacterial colonization at all, no flora in the gut, and the rats lived longer and were healthier?

    Are you sure we're not just swamped with parasites?

  31. that's life by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    The value of biological paradigms is in their application, not just how they're pronounced. We have developed techniques, medical, chemical and social, to work with "organisms", of whatever they turn out to be composed. We can tweak those techniques to recognize the more complex compositions of the organisms with which we treat. Any sensible redefinition of "organism" to recognized new components must also revise the connotations, associations, so we don't stick the new components with constraints appropriate only to the nature of the old kinds of components. Like applying a ban on aborting 3rd trimester fetuses to banning antibacterials like antibiotics. Nonbiologists are more important than biologists in revising these connotations, especially artists and other communicators who help our culture absorb new knowledge in more easily digestable (pun intended ;) forms.

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  32. You are not completely human by wikinerd · · Score: 1

    "You are not completely human"

    Perhaps not the news that can make my day!